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Old 08-03-2016, 12:03 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Default Garona

What was her previous lore like? I did some research and was surprised to see that she's a present idea ever since Warcraft I (I thought she was a later addition).

If she was half-human, what would be the explanation for her birth? Orcs grew up fast or did the First War originally last a couple decades?
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:23 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
What was her previous lore like? I did some research and was surprised to see that she's a present idea ever since Warcraft I (I thought she was a later addition).

If she was half-human, what would be the explanation for her birth? Orcs grew up fast or did the First War originally last a couple decades?
The old First War did last decades, but that doesn't answer your question.

I always interpreted it in this order:
1) the first orcs entered Azeroth
2) Garona is conceived, either on Azeroth or Draenor
3) Garona is born on Draenor, unknown specifics

Reading it again, though, I see how you can interpret her non-orc parent as a Draenor humanoid instead of an Azeroth human. The Last Guardian implies this interpretation, showing Gul'dan's room with severed humanoid hands in a jar... before the portal.

Anyway, she wrote the orc backstory in the WC1 manual:

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Warcraft:_O..._Orcish_Hordes
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:48 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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She's not half-human. It was retconned. She's half-Draenei.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:07 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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She was one of the most major characters in Warcraft I, having written the manual and getting the canonical kill of King Llane (she's also the only in-game named unit to still be alive (the others being Griselda, Medivh and Lothar)). The Warcraft II manual mentioned that Orgrim tortured her into revealing the existence of the Shadow Council. As she didn't appear in the rest of Warcraft II, I'm guessing most of our resident oldies at the time assumed that Orgrim had killed her.

She was planned to be a major character in Warcraft III (to the point a cinematic model was actually made for her), but that didn't end up happening for whatever reason. She didn't get reintroduced until the third arc of the comic (during WotLK).



In the original lore for Warcraft I, there were a few decades between the dark portal opening and the start of the game. Plenty of time for her to have been born. The First Guardian, which covered the era and featured her, had in-universe speculation that she actually wasn't half-human, but had been made with some human-looking species native to Draenor. The comic was what established her as being half-draenei, though she doesn't look the part one bit, and as having had a relation with Medivh resulting in a son (which doesn't particularly fit The First Guardian's portrayal).

Last edited by ijffdrie; 08-03-2016 at 01:10 PM..
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:28 AM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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If I remember correctly there was a 13 year gap between the orcs' first arrival and fall of Stormwind. This made her half human possible. It was later retconned to 5 years so they had to retcon her to half Draenor humanoid.
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:51 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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If I remember correctly there was a 13 year gap between the orcs' first arrival and fall of Stormwind. This made her half human possible. It was later retconned to 5 years so they had to retcon her to half Draenor humanoid.
Yeah, that was the first major timeline retcon. The warcraft I manual had 15 years between the first attack on Stormwind and the start of the game. The warcraft II manual shortened that to five years between the first attack on Stormwind and the fall of Stormwind.
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Old 08-06-2016, 06:13 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Yeah, that was the first major timeline retcon. The warcraft I manual had 15 years between the first attack on Stormwind and the start of the game. The warcraft II manual shortened that to five years between the first attack on Stormwind and the fall of Stormwind.
Actually, there was no such retcon in the Warcraft II manual. The manual simply stated the war lasted for nearly five years and that it began after the arrival of Blackhand and the Darkness Incarnate.

I even managed to craft a timeline using only the manuals of Warcraft I and II without having to resort to any changes.

http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/show...&postcount=433
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:08 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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There were a lot of moments for interpretation. In my opinion, the first true inconsistency was: how many years between the first attack on Stormwind and the start of WC? Garona said fifteen years, and Lothar said ten years.

I know some people interpret it differently, but I've always treated it as a Blizzard mistake. Like Llane and Medivh having different ages of ascension--which was retconned/corrected in WCII.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 08-06-2016 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:09 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
What was her previous lore like? I did some research and was surprised to see that she's a present idea ever since Warcraft I (I thought she was a later addition).

If she was half-human, what would be the explanation for her birth? Orcs grew up fast or did the First War originally last a couple decades?
Another concept that was offered (in Rise of the Horde, I think) is that Gul'dan and his warlocks used fel magic to take younger orc children and advance their age to make them battle-ready. This was offered as an explanation for not only Garona's adulthood in the first war (under the concept that she was half-human) but also an explanation for Rend and Maim Blackhand, who were generally characterized as being pretty infantile, even for orcs.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:40 AM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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So, the movie was really cool, I think, in it's presentation of Garona, and her reasons for killing Llane were much more nuanced than any of the old game lore. She was just mind controlled, if I remember correctly, and some kind of sleeper switch had her killing Stormwind's king.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:45 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Originally Posted by Hagrid View Post
So, the movie was really cool, I think, in it's presentation of Garona, and her reasons for killing Llane were much more nuanced than any of the old game lore. She was just mind controlled, if I remember correctly, and some kind of sleeper switch had her killing Stormwind's king.
I'll agree on that, though it's something that would have been sold better if the film had found a way to foreshadow it's impact for her better.

A lot of things about Garona's characterization in the film, from how her first appearance paid homage to her draenei heritage to how she interacted with Taria, are a vast improvement over every iteration of her canon history. Hell, if we have to make her half-human, I prefer Medivh being her dad.

I just really, really dislike her romance with Medivh in the comic being completely nonsensical in nature. It felt like such a shoehorned component while also just coming off as a complete afterthought, and it was all done strictly to provide a pathway for Med'an.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:51 AM
Apep Apep is offline

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Were the comics declared canon? I sort of ignore them on principle.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:10 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Were the comics declared canon? I sort of ignore them on principle.
They've always been canon, with frequent (not always accurate) references in-game since WotLK.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:15 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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Were the comics declared canon? I sort of ignore them on principle.
They were never not canon.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:42 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagrid View Post
So, the movie was really cool, I think, in it's presentation of Garona, and her reasons for killing Llane were much more nuanced than any of the old game lore. She was just mind controlled, if I remember correctly, and some kind of sleeper switch had her killing Stormwind's king.
The movie had a major plothole in which Garona was half-draenei and spoke Azerothian Common.
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Old 08-06-2016, 01:09 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
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The movie had a major plothole in which Garona was half-draenei and spoke Azerothian Common.
So does WarCraft.
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Old 08-06-2016, 02:08 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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Plot holes so big you can walk the elephant in the room through them.
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Old 08-06-2016, 02:15 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Plot holes so big you can walk the elephant in the room through them.
That's not really a new thing for Blizzard. The comics are exceptionally bad, yes, but plot holes made in the name of gameplay has basically been a thing for the last 25 years.
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Old 08-06-2016, 04:07 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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That's not really a new thing for Blizzard. The comics are exceptionally bad, yes, but plot holes made in the name of gameplay has basically been a thing for the last 25 years.
True. I simply feel they've grown larger over the years.
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Old 08-06-2016, 04:11 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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True. I simply feel they've grown larger over the years.
Nah.
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:02 PM
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I think it's adorable that after all these years you can all have talks about cannon and this and that of the same things... What if I told you nothing is cannon. It's all Schrödinger's Cannon. Falstad's both alive and dead
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:05 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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I think it's adorable that after all these years you can all have talks about cannon and this and that of the same things... What if I told you nothing is cannon. It's all Schrödinger's Cannon. Falstad's both alive and dead
Canon is with one n, you silly goose.
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:09 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Canon is with one n, you silly goose.
You win this round, I'd have caught that if I wasn't on my phone.
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:31 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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What if I told you nothing is cannon. It's all Schrödinger's Cannon. Falstad's both alive and dead
I'd take the blue pill.
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