Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Fan Works

View Poll Results: Best alliance interpretation / worst alliance interpretation
Best: Dwarven Clans 3 30.00%
Best: Lordaeron 2 20.00%
Best: Alterac 2 20.00%
Best: Gilneas 2 20.00%
Best: Kul Tiras 2 20.00%
Best: High elves 5 50.00%
Best: Dalaran 3 30.00%
Best: Stromgarde 1 10.00%
Worst: Dwarven Clans 2 20.00%
Worst: Lordaeron 1 10.00%
Worst: Alterac 1 10.00%
Worst: Gilneas 2 20.00%
Worst: Kul Tiras 2 20.00%
Worst: High elves 1 10.00%
Worst: Dalaran 1 10.00%
Worst: Stromgarde 1 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 12-25-2013, 08:06 AM
ashelia ashelia is offline

Treant
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 23

Default

I like it! Theramore is my favourite city. And will Jaina look for magical artefakts in Kalimdor - mayby book from Highborne?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-25-2013, 08:27 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Honestly, not really planning to do much with the highborne. Trying to keep the scope of the hypothetical game a bit on the realistic side resource-wise, and I'm already stretching the limits of that*. There's some minor relics of other extinct civilizations that appear (and are hunted after by high elves, dalaran and the cult of shrouded stars), but they were all relatively primitive (so no need to make large ruins, no need to add highborne ghost creatures). If I ever finish the barrens stuff (oh gods, why did I make so many tauren tribes?), Imma do northern Kalimdor as a hypothetical sequel.


*(which, incidentally, is why I haven't posted anything about the darkspear yet. I do have plans for culture on the side and maybe a few darkspear appearing, but echo isles has too little cross-over in resources and inhabitants so they ain't planned)
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-25-2013, 04:16 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

And six more tauren tribes. Only darkcloud, winterhoof and runetotem left to go.

The Grimtotem Tribe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asaawaki Direhorn
One of the few tribes that I'm proud to call my allies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornamm Highmountain
The path of the tauren has many pitfalls. I am sure the grimtotem think they are doing what is best for the earthmother. This is a delusion on their part.
The grimtotem are a large mesa-based tribe in the thousand needles, and are quite likely the largest and most powerful of the tauren tribes at the moment. To date, they are the only tauren tribe to have had any form of success against the centaur, nearly driving the Galak clan to extinction.
The grimtotem are a highly efficient and militarized tribe. Along with the thunderhorn and the stonehoof, they are among the few tribes that have mastered metal-crafting. Combining this with the poison-crafting skills of the blackhoof tribe has made the grimtotem braves, also called reavers, among the most feared warriors in all of Kalimdor. Naturalists support the braves in battle, calling upon their wind serpent allies as geomancers tear at the earth beneath the feet of their enemies.
Despite this, it is hard to argue whether or not the grimtotem are traditionalists. While the core of their society is very unconventional indeed, they maintain several small enclaves of traditional lifestyles. For the grimtotem, modernization is simply a means to an end. Their goal is to restore the ancient tauren lands, crushing all who stand in their way, so they can return to the old days.
This has recently brought them in conflict with the pact of mount hyjal, especially the kingdom of alterac, the dwarven clans of Onyxhold and their fellow tauren of the ragetotem tribe. While old enemies with the goblins of Ratchet, the distance was too great for the conflict to ever get especially bloody. The arrival of people from the eastern kingdoms and the formation of the united tauren tribes has ended this peace however. The grimtotem seek to claim the barrens for the tauren and the tauren alone. Allying themselves with the blackhoof and the darkcloud, they have declared war against those who lay claim on their lands, along with any tauren who would support that claim.
The totem 'animals' of the grimtotem tribe are the lightning lizard, the wind serpent, boiling water elementals and tar elementals.

The Blackhoof Tribe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bena Winterhoof
When I was a child, my mother told me stories of the forest dancers. I believed them to be nothing but myth. Until I met them.
Even to the other tauren, the blackhoof are an enigma. They are known to stem from somewhere in the wyrmbog, though whether they are a village-based or a nomadic tribe is completely unknown. No one has ever been able to find their village, despite both the longstride and the steamwheedle having tried fervently over the centuries.
The blackhoof are very aggressive and territorial, and are known to attack anyone who travels through the wyrmbog. Their attacks are always preceded by the arrival of a dense fog that mask their movements until it too late for the victim. The blackhoof are quick to strike, but even quicker to retreat, even in situations where it seems they have the upper hand. It's been suggested that their attacks are merely meant to scare off, or that their tribe is so small it can't even risk a handful of lives, but this is merely speculation. Every blackhoof who has ever been captured has dropped dead before any questions could be asked of him, a victim of the same poisons that they use on their blades.
The few things that are known about Blackhoof culture come from ancient runetotem scrolls, survivors of their attacks or rare observation. The blackhoof live in reverence of a set of great forest spirits, though the identity of these spirits is unknown (some speculate that the Blackhoof are an off-shoot of the Dawnstrider, though the latter have always fervently denied that). When outside, they wear large wooden masks that completely obscure their faces. No Blackhoof has ever been known to speak a single word, instead relying solely on gestures.
With the arrival of the alliance refugees on Kalimdor, the blackhoof have started full-scale aggression against the new arrivals, especially Alterac and the Forgehand clan of dwarves. They are known to have aligned themselves with Magatha Grimtotem, though the means by which she accomplished an alliance are unknown.

The Highmountain Tribe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawe Mistrunner
The highmountain are stub... fierce traditionalists who take a lot of pride in their tauren identity. While respected as bearers of tradition, this has led to some vehement disagreements with other tribes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sark Ragetotem
What Pawe means to say is that they're a bunch of stubborn bastards who need to get over themselves.
The members of the highmountain tribe are very, very, very strict traditionalists and live by a VERY strict code. They have the determined to never change their way of life, seeing any change to their traditions as becoming a little less tauren. They see themselves as the chosen children of the earthmother, and eternal wandering as their sacred duty. To do any less would be to dishonor the very planet.
Despite their attitudes of tauren supremacy and having no respect for other races, the highmountain have shown no indication of aggression against the newcomers in their lands, for doing so would not be the traditional tauren way.
The highmountain are probably the smallest of the surviving tribes. Their traditionalism makes them unwilling to adapt new techniques and weapons, making them easy prey for centaur and quilboar raids. Not helping either is that they banish any member of their tribe not willing to follow tradition to the utmost letter. Most of the farwanderers are descendants of banished highmountain tauren. Despite this, the highmountain should not be underestimated as a military force. Hardship and connection to the earthmother have turned their braves into massive, fierce hulks, standing almost an entire head over the tauren from other tribes, with hides thick and strong as leather. As tauren keep growing in stature and strength all their lives, and the highmountain have long life-spans, their most elder braves are almost unstoppable. There are even stories about Ornamm, eldest of their tribe and current chieftain, holding his own against an adult sea giant. The highmountain totem animals are the kodo, the boar, the zhevra and the giraffe, allowing their naturalists to further enhance the strength of their braves.
Despite their beliefs of tauren supremacy, their disgust of all other tribes except the runetotem (which is probably solely because tradition says you have to respect the runetotem) and their loathing of other races, the highmountain are not aggressive. They simply want to be left alone to live according to their traditions. They are not a part of any alliance.

The Tribe of Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornamm Highmountain
Idiotic cultists
The story of the tidus starts twelve hundred years ago, with the rockcrest tribe of tauren. The rockcrest were famed for their great berserker warriors, who could channel the spirits of their ancestors to fight with the strength and determination of several tauren. When the quilboar tribes threatened to overrun their village, the rockcrest refused to give way. At the spearhead of their counter-assaults was Harok Rockcrest, said to have been capable of tapping into the greatest of spirits.
Among the tauren, there has been the longstanding tradition of 'hero-names'. When a particularly great tauren has died, the runetotem will often give him a new name that reflects his deeds. This name replaces the clan name, indicating that these people are heroes to the tauren as a whole. Examples of such are Nala Stalks-the-Night, who spent twenty years tracking a black dragon to avenge the destruction of the Moonreaver and Lowbrow tribes, and Bhenn Checks-the-Sky, a longstride who had made it is his life-long duty to observe the harpies, warning tribes of coming attacks.
It is said that at night, Harok was haunted by these spirits, showing him visions of the destruction of the tauren race. One night, the visions changed though, showing an odd formation near the coast. Harok knew he had to go there. From his tribe and those nearby, he gathered a large group of followers, leading them to the odd rock formation near the coast.
It was a stairway into the depths of the ocean, now called the Tidus Stair. From this stairway, the spirits of all the great tauren heroes started to rise. Amano Herald-of-the-sun, the legendary guardian of the gates of Mulgore. Brulu Breaks-the-land, who had led the united tribal forces against the Jikiri legions. Halnar Stands-Alone, who had single-handedly held the defense of the bones of the earthmother for two days, giving the runetotem armies time to return home. These were but a few of the thousands to rise from the depths of the ocean. And, at the front of them was Tempest Son-of-Storms, the great chieftain of the tauren that had guided the tauren through the aftermath of the sundering. Tempest walked up to Harok, showing him a vision of a great coming destruction, and giving him instructions to prepare.
Of course, that's just what the tribe of Tidus says. The other tribes say this is all a bunch of nonsense, delusions and egotism on part of the Tidians. After all, it's not like their naturalists don't ever hang out with the spirits of the ancestors, and they've never had any warning of this Tidus stair nonsense.
Despite this, the tribe of tidus persists, ever-preparing for the oncoming storm. At birth, each Tidian is given the name of an ancient tauren hero. For the rest of his life, he will serve to honor the legacy of that hero to strengthen its spirit. Each night, the Tidian will channel the spirit of this hero, seeking to relive as much of the hero's life. By tradition, each chieftain of the Tidus tribe acts as a herald for Tempest.
The Tidus tribe has rarely seen battle, being nested just south of Ratchet. They say that their warriors can fully become one with the ancient heroes, bringing their ancient legacy to the battle-field, if only for a short while.
The Tidians aren't part of any alliance, though they are seeking to create a unified tauren faction of their own.

The Stonespire Tribe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonespire burial rite
From mud, we were raised by mother earth. To mud, we shall return. As we return our brother to the soil from which he was born, let us remember that he will always be a part. Our children will be raised from what was once he. Our grandchildren will be raised from what was once he. Every tauren born between now and the end shall carry with him a piece of our beloved brother, in his heart and his spirit. Know, we are never alone.
The stonespire are a village-based tribe from the field of giants. They are heavily tied to the elements of this world, from which they draw their strength. First comes the earth, from which they were born. The air, which gave them their first breath and shall give them their last. The water, which forms the river from which one point flows into the next. The little flame, which carries the life from one being into the next.
For them, destruction takes the form of the doom fire, the fifth element, which burns down great plains and ends lifes. This has brought them in frequent conflict with the goblins, whose technology epitomizes the usage of the doom fire for selfish needs, bringing churning machines and explosives solely to make a quick profit. After decades of frequent minor conflicts, the two sides have achieved something of a deal, with the goblins agreeing to not use their technology for destructive means in the field of giants, and the stonespire allowing the goblins to pass through their territories.
Of course, when the dwarves started moving into the field of giants, this caused a few new problems, though not as extreme. Dwarven technology tends to be somewhat less firey in nature than goblin technology, so there's still some debate among the stonespire whether it the dwarves wield the little flame, the doom fire or both. And, more importantly, how they should take action. Tensions in the field of giants are at an all-time high.
The stonespire are members of the united tauren tribes, but not of the horde. While fairly traditional in most other ways, the Stonespire do not acknowledge the existence of the Sky-father. Instead, they regard the second moon (which the other tribes see as the sky-father) as the representation of An'she, and the sun as the realm of the little flame.

The Dawnstrider Tribe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sark Ragetotem
Before I took the mantle of chieftain, I made the long journey to Camp Mojache. Their elementalists transformed by blade into that of a true chieftain, spitting the earth-mother's fury to grant the sky-father's peace.
The dawnstrider are a nomadic tribe that travel between northern Un'goro and southern Feralas. While mostly traditionalist in their beliefs, the Dawnstrider don't really worship the earth-mother. Instead, they worship the individual spirits of the world of which she is composed. Among these, four groups of spirits are the most important, with the dawnstrider migration taking them through the territories of these spirits as the seasons pass.
When Spring starts, they move to their northern-most home, dedicated to the forest spirits of Feralas. These spirits are associated with life and healing, but also sickness and poison. With Spring becoming Summer, they cross the mountain ranges into Un'goro, where they speak to the crystalline voices. Associated with the skies, these spirits can create great storms and curse the faithless, but also bless its followers with good fortune. Come Autumn, they move to the Lakkari Tar Pits, home to the Earth-walkers. These, as the name suggests, are associated with the earth, bringing strength, but also signifying stagnation and decay. Finally, in Winter, they move to the sacred steam pools, where wild flame and wild water have spawned the great geysers, bringing warmth in moderation, death in excess.
As the dawnstrider pass through their daily route, their shamans, called elementalists, use the local resources to forge appropriate trinkets and perform enchantments. These are highly valued and sought after by the other tribes.
The dawnstrider are not members of either the horde or the united tauren tribes, but they maintain friendly trade relations with pretty much everyone in the pact of mount hyjal.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-03-2014, 04:20 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Because I was bored with the tauren for a bit, here's something completely different; A timeline of the first war, made with stuff from the warcrafts I and II manuals. I'm not integrating too much stuff from the novels or world of warcraft, because they tend to have a rather small scale for the first war. This is only the current mock-up. I'm at the very least asking Grackle for commentary before saying anything is a final version, though commentary from everyone is of course welcome.

Edit: The list has now been updated based on commentary from Grackle. Clarifications and changes have been bolded.
Edit2: Apparently, my original edit was a mess, and I had to do re-jiggle the timeline to prevent the dragonmaw from causing a time-travel paradox.

First War Timeline
571
  • 12th day of summer - Medivh attains the age of ascension and is expected to be given the title as Apprentice Conjurer to the Court. On the eve of this occasion, the boy’s sleep is troubled by dark dreams of figures giving chase through deep chasms. Waking in a cold sweat, Medivh makes his way to the bedchamber of his father. As the Conjurer reaches out to touch his fevered brow, a burning fire ignites in the child’s eyes and an unholy wail burst forth from his throat. This backlash of power reached as far as Northshire Abbey, and within the hour over one hundred clerics of Saint Seraph had teleported to the city to aid against Medivh.
    Only by combining their abilities with the powers of the Conjurer were the one hundred enough to contain Medivh. As unimaginable magical energies poured forth from him, the boy screamed in unholy pain at the energies that were channeling through him. Hours passed, perhaps even days, for time seemed to stand still as the onslaught grew in fury.
    Then, as simply as one snuffs a candle, both father and son crumpled into a heap. The Conjurer lay dead, drained of all life, and Medivh fell into a deep sleep - his heart barely beating, and only the faintest of breath escaping his lips. After long discussion, the King and the Abbot of Northshire agree that Medivh should be taken to the Abbey for the safety of both child and kingdom.
    Unbeknownst to the clerics however, the spirit within Medivh had used Nielas Aran's essence in an incredibly powerful sacrificial spell, creating a small tear in the fabric of reality in the southern black Morass.
572
  • 54th day of fall – Directed to a small clearing by communications from Medivh, the warlocks of the shadow council found the draenor side of the tear. Many years passed as the Warlocks sought to unlock the mysteries of this tiny rift. The undertaking of numerous trials and tests confirmed that this phenomenon could serve as a portal to another dominion, if it could be controlled. The Orcish Warlocks began experimentation towards focusing the rift, gradually making it larger and more stable.
576
  • 7th day of winter - Eventually, the Orcish warlocks were able to create a small portal, just large enough for one of their agents to pass through. The stories that this subject returned with almost convinced his colleagues that the experience had left him insane, but the strange, unknown plants he held served as sure evidence of his claims. This allowed the sect to approach the chieftains of the Orc clans and request that they cease their war for one year. At the end of that time, they promised the chance to accomplish the taking of a new world.
  • 65th day of winter - The Orcish warlocks discovered that controlling the rift proved to be easier as it grew larger, and within the passing of three moons, it stood ready to send a small detachment of troops to this new world. A blue circle of energy, roughly two and one half Orcs in width, was the sight that greeted the Orcish chieftains. Streaks of black and red raced across it as it crackled with otherworldly fires. Along with the agent who first travelled through the portal, each of the six clans willing to traverse the portal, Blackrock, Twilight's Hammer, Burning Blade, Bleeding Hollow, Fireblossom and Whiteclaw, chose a single warrior to join. These were to enter the portal and return with a report detailing the type of lands and creatures that were to be found on the other side. As the Warlocks began their incantations to access the power of the rift, a howl began – low at first, then rising in pitch like a darkwolf baying during the bloodmoon. When the sound grew near to deafening, the warriors were motioned into the circle, now alive with a thousand colours intertwined and clashing in some cosmic dance. What awaited these seven was beyond even their wildest imagining.
  • 67th day of winter - For the seven experienced warriors, the sack of the village of Sudleigh was a simple matter, hardly worth the telling. Yet hundreds of times the tale was recounted, and a hundred more would be expected and relished. A group of strange, sharp edged buildings was the first sign of any true opposition they encountered. A rough dirt path lead into a trio of farms. The gray of dawn was lightening as the sun of Azeroth rose over the hilltops. Then out of the odd little hut came the first human the orcs ever encountered. Compared to the orcs, these creatures were small, pink and spare of muscle. The warriors grinned wickedly at each other, knowing that if this represented the breed of stock they would need to pen in order to take this world, victory was but a matter of moments. Rushing out of their hiding place, they swarmed upon the village and slew every living thing they could find. The males offered some small resistance, but the females and children were like taking grok to the slaughter. Their homes held few values, but their field were full of a tasty grain. Their livestock, as little as there was, also proved excellent, and what they could not eat or pack was set to the torch.
  • 69th day of winter - The seven warriors brought back the looted trinkets through the portal. The trinkets were of a quality of craftsmanship unknown to the Orcs, and were quickly taken by the leaders of the seven clans for their own treasure hordes. This new world, heavy with vast expanses and soft, weak protectors would prove a rich jewel to add the crown of the Orcs.
577
  • 6th day of summer - Llane reaches his Age of Ascension, and the full station of Prince of Azeroth is bestowed upon him. At this ceremony, tens of thousands of devoted subjects come to offer their wishes of support and long life. During the evening feast with family, and those close to the crown, a cold wind began to chill the air. A gentle breeze at first, it grew in intensity, until the doors to the great hall were blown off of their hinges. As the guests leaned into the wind, a figure entered, riding the winds like a great bird of prey.
    The torches set about the great hall ignited with blue flame and the visage of Medivh was revealed. As he set down in front of the King’s table, the guard sprang to their feet. A mere pass of his hand kept them motionless - frozen in their places. The sorcerer, now a man, explained that his years of sleep had ended. The years of constant tending from the clerics of Northshire Abbey enabled him to gain control over his
    powers. When his spirit and body became attuned, he awakened himself, and set out to Stormwind Keep at once. Medivh explained that he had come to repay the court for the kindness it had shown to him while he was in their keeping, and to acknowledge the occasion of the Ascension ceremony for Prince Llane. From within his flowing cloak he produced an hourglass, crafted of deepest obsidian, with sands as white as undriven snow. The young prince looked closely, but although the sand seemed to constantly sift from top to bottom, the lower half never filled, and the top never emptied. Medivh claimed that these sands represented the people of the kingdom, and so long as the glass never emptied, the reign of King Adamant Wrynn would not fail.
583
  • In the years that passed, the orcs built up for their incursion. Among their most unholy projects was the creation of the dark portals, which would keep the rift between worlds permanently opened. While this allowed entire orcish armies to pass through the threshold with ease, it had dark side-effects, as life energies from Azeroth and Draenor slipped out, and arcane energies from the twisting nether slipped on.
    On Azeroth, the effects were the most severe. The entire black morass was being cleansed of plant-life, exposing the red soil beneath. Disease spread across the lands, infecting the southern regions of the redridge mountains and elwynn forest. Crops began failing with alarming regularity, even in lands as distant as Westfall. Children were stricken ill and never fully recovered. Even the moods of the subjects of Azeroth seem dark. The weather would become unseasonably cold during harvest, and the summer sun scorched the earth and made working out of the shade almost unbearable. More and more people became disheartened, and what once would have been looked over, now caused bitter argument. Neither cleric nor conjurer, mage nor templar could fathom what could be the cause of this change in the lands. Reports of the orcs were investigated, of course, but these reports were rare and vague, with most sightings of the orcs mistaking them for the dragon-men of the swamp of sorrows.
  • 78th day of Winter - During a bleak morning, Prince Llane rushed to his father’s side, carrying the hourglass. During the night, the sands had run down from the top, and it was near emptied. King Wrynn took the glass into his hands, and a chill ran through the very core of his being. As the last sands trickled to the bottom of the glass, a great crashing sound was heard at the gates of Stormwind Keep. Suddenly, the grounds were filled with orcs, swarming over the King’s guard and tearing them to shreds. King Wrynn sent Llane and Queen Varia with an escort of knights to Northshire Abbey, promising to call for them when the foul beasts had been destroyed. He was slain shortly after.
    Recovering from the surprise attack, the guards of Stormwind managed to repel the orcs from their city, aided by the recently arrived brotherhood of the horse. The orcs were chased for several days, with the brotherhood of Azora using scrying magics to make sure the knights were always one step ahead of the orcs. It's only when the orcs reached the swamps and the protective veils of the warlocks that the orcs were able to escape the knights.
    Still, orcish casualties were great. The burning blade clan lost over two-thirds of its warriors in the attack, and the Bleeding Hollow and Twilight's Hammer, who had committed less soldiers to the attack, suffered notable losses as well. With the strength of the defending humans now apparent, and the need to attack as a unified force obvious, fighting broke out between the orcish chieftains about who should be in command. With the burning blade weakened, the whiteclaw reluctant to engage in a war of extermination and the fireblossom specialized in naval combat, the primary contestants for the title of warchief were Kilrogg Deadeye of the Bleeding Hollow and Cho'gall of the Twilight's Hammer. Tensions between the two were high, a modicum of peace only kept by the enforcement of the Shadow Council. The two clans founded large bases on Azeroth to operate from, with the Twilight's Hammer basing themselves out of Rockard and the Bleeding Hollow out of Stonard. The Burning Blade came under close control of the shadow council, and served as the guardians of the dark portal, behind which the whiteclaw, blackrock and fireblossom laid in wait.
584
  • 2nd day of Noblegarden - At the age of twenty years, Llane is pronounced King of Azeroth. His task is clear – to rid the lands of these creatures. The few that have survived battle refer to themselves as Orcs. When questioned, they will tell little else, and prefer death to releasing information. They are cruel, sadistic and vile - making no distinctions between soldier or child, warrior or woman. They will slay anyone who they encounter without a second thought. The only humans who do not fall to the Orcish blade are those who are taken to the swamps in the east, where the Orcs have made their encampments. What they do with these people is unknown, though the worst is feared for none have ever returned.
587
  • 27th day of spring – The razing of Firewatch Abbey and eradication of the clerics and bow-wielding templars of Saint Dastrin the Hunter. Interrogation of captured humans has revealed the existence of Blackrock Mountain to Chieftain Blackhand of the Blackrock Clan. While the name is assumed to be nothing more than a funny coincidence, Blackhand is attracted to the tales he is told of the barely inhabited, metal-rich wastelands that surround it. Claiming the name of the mountain to be a sign of the spirits, he leads his clan through the outskirts of Redridge, avoiding the human fortresses of the duchy. Firewatch Abbey, which stands watch over the border between the kingdom of stormwind and the firey wastelands to the north, is destroyed as his clan passes.
590
  • 5th day of Summer – as the remaining dark iron fortifications of Thaurissan are destroyed, the blackrock forces become the unopposed masters of the burning steppes. To control the entire region, Blackhand splits his clan in three. He himself remains in control of the Blackrock Clan, while his elder shaman Zuluhed is the new chieftain of the Dragonmaw Clan (named for an injury Zuluhed received against the black dragons of the region) and his sons Rend and Maim become the joint chieftain the Black Tooth Grin Clan (named for the replacement of Blackhand's right tusk).
593
  • 27th day of Summer - Nearly ten years of skirmishes and raids along the Borderlands have kept the people of Azeroth wary, but the Orcish hordes have been contained within the swamps. King Llane has found that the Orcs, though incredibly strong and vicious, were seldom well trained in combat, and always disorganized. This has been the key to holding them at bay, and is the weakness he hopes to exploit in the future. The mystery that no Cleric or Conjurer had found the answer to, though, was the origin of these creatures.
    In the tenth year of his reign, King Llane is visited by a mysterious traveler, who now identified herself as Aegwynn. She has come to the King with a warning that she hopes will aid him in his fight against this nemesis to his land. The coupling between the King’s Conjurer and herself was intended to create a child that she could pass the power of the guardian to. However, she had been unaware that a demonic presence had taken hold in her own body years before, transferring into the child as she gave birth to him. Medivh had become the vessel for Sargeras, lord of all demons.
    She sought him out only a fortnight before, and found that the powers that coursed through his veins and the spirit locked within had twisted him, making him insane. Realizing the threat he now posed, she was forced to attempt to destroy him. He all but slew her, taking from her the staff of Atiesh, which she had used to give him the power of the guardian.
    The battle left both combatants drained, but Medivh held enough power to banish her from his sight, and command her never to return. His enchantment on her was strong enough that even she cannot break this bond, and so can offer no aid in his downfall. The traveler also informs King Llane that it was Medivh who was responsible for the coming of the Orcs to Azeroth. During the battle with his father, he opened a gateway to the domain that they, and many other foul creatures, call home. However, not even Medivh himself has any control over the orcish horde.
  • 91st day of Summer – The united forces of the blackrock, dragonmaw and black tooth grin clans break through the dark iron defenses and wash over most of the mountain. The dark iron remnants remain in control of Shadowforge City, but the horde now control the majority of the mountain
    On the Architecture of Blackrock Mountain
    As the dark iron dwarves moved into the mountain, they started carving a massive city complex into the north-eastern side, reaching from near the top of the mountain to below its ground level. The complex was divided between several different facilities based on level.

    -The lowest levels of the complex were called shadowforge city, which served as the capital of the dark iron empire and the home to the higher classes of citizens. It was home to the lyceum (the palace of the emperor), the summoners' tomb (where the spirits that had summoned Ragnaros were placed), the various golem-crafting facilities (including the mines for the rock needed to craft them, the laboratories that put them together, the foundries that coated them in dark iron and the chamber of enchantment where runes were placed on them), the halls of the law (home to the ring of the law, a courthouse/gladiatorial arena, and a large prison complex), the shrine of thaurissan, the black forge and the black anvil. Before the coming of the horde, only the most affluent of citizens were allowed to live here. It was the only part of the city that remained under the control of the dark iron dwarves, who collapsed all tunnels to the higher parts of the city. Roughly equivalent to Blackrock Depths in World of Warcraft.
    -Above shadowforge city lies Ironstar Fortress. The fortress guards the gates of blackrock mountain and the molten span. Roughly equivalent to the uninstanced rim that surrounds the volcanic heart of blackrock mountain in WoW.
    -Above Ironstar Fortress lies Anvilrage City, home to the lower classes of the dark iron empire. Upon ascencion to the throne of warchief, Blackhand renamed it into Hordemar City. Roughly equivalent to Lower Blackrock Spire in WoW.
    -Above Anvilrage City lies Dragonspire Fortress, home to the strong offensive core of the dark iron armies. It is a massive complex, designed to house tens of thousands of soldiers. In Dragonspire Stadium (renamed blackrock stadium by the orcs), soldiers would hold brutal gladiatorial battles before the officers to gain status. Roughly equivalent to Upper Blackrock Spire in WoW.
    -Finally, at the top of the city complex was the athenaeum, which served as a college of the magical arts. Arcane magic, pyromancy, runic magic, warlock magics and alchemy were all taught in the massive halls of the complex. Deep within the athenaeum lies the vault of the shadowflame, where the dark iron empire kept its most powerful artifacts. From here, Zuluhed claimed the dragon soul, using it to absorb several fire elementals wholesale and causing the rest to retreat to the depths of the mountain.
  • 45th day of fall – With blackrock mountain secured, Blackhand takes a squadron of his best warriors back south, to get in touch with the other clans.
594
  • 34th day of spring – Blackhand returns to the dark portal with his veteran warriors, taking with him dark iron treasures and speaking of his many victories. Alongside his warriors stand several fire simulacrums (note: the fire elementals from warcraft I), created by Nekros Skullcrusher. Nekros had been given the dragon soul by Zuluhed, and had used the essence of the absorbed elementals to create loyal elemental servants.
  • 12th day of summer – Afraid that the claiming of new lands by the more extremist orc clans will eventually lead to them eliminating moderate orcs, chieftain Gurok of the Whiteclaw convinces Durotan of the Frostwolf to bring his clan to Azeroth and join in on the conquest of Azeroth.
  • 6th day of winter - To avert a war between the twilight's hammer and the bleeding hollow, the shadow council recreates the ancient position of warchief. Because of his great victories in the north, and the many magical artifacts from Blackrock Mountain he offered the shadow council, Blackhand becomes the first to take this title.
595
  • 2nd day of spring - Through contact with the spirits of Azeroth, the shaman of the frostwolf clan gain knowledge of the shadow council and Gul'dan's betrayal of the orcish people.
  • 7th day of spring - Gul'dan tells Blackhand of the threat posed by the knowledge of the Frostwolf Clan. While Gul'dan wants the entire clan eliminated, Blackhand fears that would cost him the support of many of the more moderate orcs and convinces the warlock that the clan should merely be banished to the north. The frostwolf move to the Badlands.
  • 2nd day of summer - Following the visions that led him to the dragon soul, Zuluhed takes his clan further north, encountering the bronzebeard dwarves. Warning shots from the mortar cannons are enough to teach Zuluhed to keep his distance, circling the kingdom by traveling through the badlands. On the 2nd day of summer, the dragonmaw clan finds the banished frostwolf clan, and the dragonmaw attack. Caught between hammer and anvil, the frostwolves are forced to retreat into the dwarven kingdom of Khaz Modan. The dragonmaw continue to skirt past the border of the dwarven kingdom.
  • 34th day of summer - The whiteclaw still refuse to believe any of the justifications for banishing the frostwolf clan, and their support among the orcs is growing. There is even talk of negotiations between the whiteclaw and the redwalker clan. Recognizing that he is about to lose control of the situation, Blackhand declares both the frostwolf and the whiteclaw clans to be enemies of the horde, ordering the latter to be purged and the former to be attacked on sight.
  • 12th day of winter – The dragonmaw clan finds the ruins of Grim Batol. Zuluhed's visions tell him that he should turn this place into a fortress for his clan, to serve as a base of operations for his clan in the war to come. Because their orcish blood courses with fel energies, the orcs have no problems bearing the dark powers that have kept the dwarves away from the mountain. Nekros even uses the Dragon Soul to start absorbing portions of the remaining shadow magic, intent on using it to summon more servants.
  • 19th day of winter – having sensed Nekros' manipulation of dark energies, Alexstrasza the dragon queen attacks Grim Batol, escorted by many of her mates and elder children. Too late does she realize the artifact that Nekros holds, and she falls before its power, enslaved by the dragonmaw clan.
596
  • 11th day of fall – On his quest for the Tome of Divinity, Sir Anduin Lothar, highlord of the brotherhood of the horse, enters the deadmines. He and his men are captured by Turok and his fellow Muskwind ogres. Turok had been an ogre slave in the bleeding hollow clan of orcs, but had escaped with a large group of other ogres, seeking refuge in the deadmines. The ogres killed the men under Lothar's command, but spared the highlord, hoping to use him as a bargaining chip if the orcs were ever to attack.
  • 73rd day of fall - Orgrim Doomhammer is placed in command of the southern forces of the horde, while Blackhand rules from blackrock mountain in the north. Blackhand's strategy is to take out Stormwind in a single, quick offensive, now that they still underestimate the orcs. To this end, the horde starts to prepare, building new outposts in the black morass and the swamp of sorrows from which to strike (Note: WCI, orc mission 1 and 2).
598
  • 3rd day of spring – Blackhand's grand offensive starts, with Orgrim Doomhammer leading an attack on the Grand Hamlet, the capital city of the duchy of Elwynn. The human defenders did not expect the orcs to launch an organized offensive and are quickly overwhelmed. The battle of Grand Hamlet is a one-sided massacre (Note: WCI, orc mission 3)
  • 7th day of spring – With the Grand Hamlet destroyed, Stonebrook Keep soon follows. Despite valiant defensive efforts by the knights of the Brotherhood of Thorns, the Twilight's Hammer forces slay Duke Grigori and his entire family, as well as most of the brotherhood of Thorns.
  • 9th day of spring – Griselda defects from the horde, fleeing to lands unknown. Blackhand sends Wolf-riders to track her down.
  • 15th day of spring – As Blackhand predicted, Doomhammer's attack on the grand hamlet caused the humans to focus their defenses, sending forces from all throughout the land to counter him. Taking advantage of this, he launches the northern campaign by striking against the duchy of Redridge. The Blackrock and Black Tooth Grin have Stonewatch as the main target in their first strike, with the town of Wellhaven becoming the first victim of their assault.
  • 17th day of spring – Sir Alistair Duval, highlord of the knights of the golden songbird, leads the azerothian forces against Doomhammer's army. To cut off Doomhammer's reinforcements, they strike against Kyross, an outpost of the burning blade clan (Note: WCI, Human mission 3). A few survivors from Kyross make it out, warning Doomhammer of the incoming army.
  • 21st day of Spring. The armies of Doomhamer and Duval meet at the Crystal Fields. The Battle of the Crystal Fields becomes the first evenly matched battle of the war, with the humans having a numerical advantage, but underestimating the orcish intelligence. In the end, it's Orgrim's fire simulacrums and the dark casters of the twilight's hammer clan that manage to counter the human forces, though both suffer heavy losses, and aren't seen in number under Orgrim's command for the rest of the war. Orgrim's forces fortify their position, waiting for more orders from Blackhand to arrive
  • 19th day of spring – Blackhand's forces annihilate the city of Stonewatch and destroy the keep, killing Duke Christopher Lanks, as well as razing Stonewatch Abbey and slaughtering the clerics of Saint Cristopher the Devout.
  • 25th day of spring – The wolf-riders report back to Blackhand that they have found Griselda in the Deadmines, where she and a few followers had joined with the Muskwind ogres. Blackhand's forces are busy dealing with assaults from the various mountain baronies of Redridge, so he sends orders to Doomhammer to deal with it.
  • 37th day of spring – Griselda and Turok had prepared well for an assault by the horde. However, what they didn't expect was for Sir Alistair Duval to lead a small human strike force of elite knights and clerics against her. Following a vision by a cleric in Northshire, Duval was sent to free Anduin Lothar. He succeeded, and at a high cost for Griselda and Turok's forces (Note: WCI, human mission 4)
  • 39th day of spring – before they even recovered from the assault by Duval, Doomhammer's forces arrive, led by Varok Saurfang. Griselda, the orcs that followed her and the muskwind ogres are slaughtered to the last man. (Note: WCI, human mission 5)
  • 72nd day of spring – Aaron Lanks, the new duke of Redridge, launches a counter-assault against blackhand's forces. His forces attack the newly established orcish outpost of Bloodfall, conquering it and capturing many of the orcs. Under his orders, the remaining nobles of the eastern mountains and the mages of Ilgalar launch a simultaneous attack against Blackhand's main base in Stonewatch. Blackhand sends for reinforcements from Doomhammer.
  • 81st day of spring – Doomhammer's forces liberate Bloodfall. (Note: WCI, orc mission 5)
  • 84th day of spring – Doomhammer's forces manage to break through the defenses of Lakeshire, rushing the town and slaying Aaron Lanks. (Note: WCI, orc mission 5)
  • 91st day of spring – The arrival of additional blackrock forces from the north breaks the human siege of Stonewatch, and the attackers retreat.
  • 4th day of summer – Blackhand and his forces attack the town of Braewich and the tower of Ilgalar. Despite the best efforts from the local mages and defenders, there is little they can against the orcish catapults that pulverize the town and mage tower from afar. Interested in the magics shown by the mages of Ilgalar, Blackhand has one tortured into revealing the location of a second mage tower, that of Azora, in the town of Sunnyglade. Blackhand orders Doomhammer to assault the town and take the mage tower.
  • 17th day of summer – Doomhammer assaults Sunnyglade, taking the tower of Azora. (Note: WCI, orc mission 6)
  • 21st day of summer – the kingdom of Azeroth is in a panic by now. Many are convinced that the invading orcs are punishment from the heavens, because the clergy has failed to carry out the will of the light. Brigands and deserted soldiers assault Northshire Abbey, with the clerics sending a magic distress signal.
  • 27th day of summer – Alistair Duval and his men come to the aid of Northshire, slaying the attacking rebels. (Note: WCI, human mission 6) Among the brigands, they discover Garona, who had been manipulating them. She is captured and held in the abbey.
  • 33rd day of summer - Alistair Duval launches a rescue mission to free prisoners from Sunnyglade (Note: WCI: human mission 7). He succeeds in saving several citizens and conjurers, and brings them to Northshire Abbey.
  • 41st day of summer – Doomhammer's forces assault Northshire Abbey (Note: WCI, Orc mission 8). The clerics of Saint Seraph the Exalted are slaughtered, though a few manage to teleport to Stormwind City, carrying sacred tomes of knowledge. Alistair Duval is killed in battle, leadership of the Azeroth armies shifting to sir anduin lothar.
  • 57th day of summer – The battles in Redridge become more intense, with the abbot of Eastervale having taken control of the remaining Azerothian forces in the region. The templars of Eastervale Abbey, dedicated to saint marilyn of the sacred vows, are deadly bare-handed fighters. Like the orcs, they are capable of climbing fortress walls with ease. After two attempts on his life, Blackhand retreats to Blackrock Mountain, even as he sends more soldiers from there to aid in Redridge.
  • 71st day of summer – Doomhammer assassinates Blackhand, becoming chieftain of the blackrock clan and warchief of the horde. Varok Saurfang is placed in charge of the battles in Redridge, while Doomhammer returns to the armies in Elwynn, scouring the remaining outposts in the north (Note: WCI, Orc mission 9)
  • 89th day of summer – Saurfang's armies destroy Eastervale. The remnants of the azerothian redrige armies retreat into the mountains.
  • 7th day of fall – The duchy of westwood sends nearly all of its remaining forces east, intent on striking directly against the dark portal. The azerothian forces are gathered at Raven's Hill, waiting for Anduin Lothar to finish his mission of killing Medivh. However, the alliance plans are leaked to the horde forces.
  • 12th day of fall – Medivh is slain by Anduin Lothar. Gul'dan falls into a coma (Note: WCI, Human mission 8)
  • 13th day of fall – Doomhammer's army strikes against the gathered forces at Raven Hill, destroying them (Note: WCI, Orc mission 10). Anduin Lothar returns to find nothing but slaughter. He returns to Stormwind City.
  • 73rd day of fall – The orcs begin their final push against Stormwind City by simultaneously attacking Moonbrook and Goldshire(Note: WCI, Orc mission 11), at the same moment that Garona kills king Llane. Saurfang easily crushes Goldshire, but Doomhammer has more problem in Moonbrook. The riders of the west, the clerical orders of Saint Andrews the Just and Saint Rames the Purifier and the mages of Mortwake's Tower make their final stand in Moonbrook, their sacrifice buying the civilians time to flee into the dagger hills.
  • 83rd day of fall – The attack on Stormwind City begins, as Saurfang starts his assault. Only the guards of stormwind, the guild of conjurors and the brotherhood of the horse are left to offer significant resistance. Anduin Lothar orders the fleet to start evacuating.
  • 87th day of fall – Doomhammer's army arrives to reinforce Saurfang's encampment, and the two combined armies overwhelm the defenses of Stormwind. In a desperate last rush, Anduin Lothar manages to retrieve Varian Wrynn from the keep, carrying him to safety before the catapults destroy it. Lothar and Varian are among the last to flee the city, setting sail for Lordaeron. (Note: WCI, Orc Mission 12)
__________________
This is not a signature.

Last edited by ijffdrie; 04-21-2014 at 03:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-11-2014, 06:51 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,111

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Because I was bored with the tauren for a bit, here's something completely different; A timeline of the first war, made with stuff from the warcrafts I and II manuals. I'm not integrating too much stuff from the novels or world of warcraft, because they tend to have a rather small scale for the first war. This is only the current mock-up. I'm at the very least asking Grackle for commentary before saying anything is a final version, though commentary from everyone is of course welcome.
Sorry for the delayed response; you have a lot here! Good stuff about important periods of lore!

Quote:
First War Timeline

571

12th day of summer -
Breaking things down by seasons? Always impressive, though usually too intimidating for me. One wonders how the seasonal calendar of Azeroth looks, and how its months are affected by having two moons.

Do we have any lore about how months are broken down?

Quote:
Medivh attains the age of ascension and is expected to be given the title as Apprentice Conjurer to the Court. On the eve of this occasion, the boys sleep is troubled by dark dreams of figures giving chase through deep chasms. Waking in a cold sweat, Medivh makes his way to the bedchamber of his father. As the Conjurer reaches out to touch his fevered brow, a burning fire ignites in the childs eyes and an unholy wail burst forth from his throat. This backlash of power reached as far as Northshire Abbey, and within the hour over one hundred clerics of Saint Seraph had teleported to the city to aid against Medivh.
Teleportation is fancy! I think that type of magic showed up in the Warcraft III era, where it was something you'd expect to see from Mages rather than Priests. Yet of course, Warcraft II lore told us that Invisibility magic started with the Clerics before the Mages adopted it. And of course, even the original account has Conjurers showing up to assist the Clerics here.

Clerics of Saint Seraph! Now you've verified saints in the Church of the Holy Light now as well as the possibility of Angels (if St. Seraph here is named after the angelic beings or if it describes such a being itself).

I also see you've listed other saints throughout your post. Good touches. What would you say is a qualification for being a saint in the world of Azeroth? Is there anything like a "heaven" here? Or does it more relate to how well one served the Light during life?

Quote:
Only by combining their abilities with the powers of the Conjurer were the one hundred enough to contain Medivh. As unimaginable magical energies poured forth from him, the boy screamed in unholy pain at the energies that were channeling through him. Hours passed, perhaps even days, for time seemed to stand still as the onslaught grew in fury.

Then, as simply as one snuffs a candle, both father and son crumpled into a heap. The Conjurer lay dead, drained of all life, and Medivh fell into a deep sleep - his heart barely beating, and only the faintest of breath escaping his lips. After long discussion, the King and the Abbot of Northshire agree that Medivh should be taken to the Abbey for the safety of both child and kingdom.

Unbeknownst to the clerics however, the essence of Nielas Aran had been used in an incredibly powerful sacrificial spell, creating a small tear in the fabric of reality in the southern black Morass.
Whoa. You've gone back to the original Warcraft: Orcs & Humans explanation that the portal's creation was accidental? That's heavy. It might have trouble meshing with the lore that comes after it, mind you.

Quote:
572

54th day of fall Directed to a small clearing by Kil'jaeden, the warlocks of the shadow council found the draenor side of the tear. Many years passed as the Warlocks sought to unlock the mysteries of this tiny rift. The undertaking of numerous trials and tests confirmed that this phenomenon could serve as a portal to another dominion, if it could be controlled. The Orcish Warlocks began experimentation towards focusing the rift, gradually making it larger and more stable.
This assigns more impetus to Kil'jaeden and less to Medivh, of course. It's a much smoother transition from the events of Rise of the Horde (it felt weird how in that novel Kil'jaeden discarded the Horde, only to have Medivh-Sargeras say "nevermind we can still use you"), yet we do miss out on the telepathic communication between Gul'dan and Medivh being their first contact between worlds. That same communication is going to be used when Gul'dan tries to pry Medivh's dying secrets, so you could say it's a thematic echo you'd be losing. But again, that's the trade-off.

Quote:
576

7th day of winter - Eventually, the Orcish warlocks were able to create a small portal, just large enough for one of their agents to pass through. The stories that this subject returned with almost convinced his colleagues that the experience had left him insane, but the strange, unknown plants he held served as sure evidence of his claims. This allowed the sect to approach the chieftains of the Orc clans and request that they cease their war for one year. At the end of that time, they promised the chance to accomplish the taking of a new world.
Is this the same warfare presented in Rise of the Horde, infighting among clans due to lack of resources and lingering demonbloodlust without a common enemy?

Quote:

65th day of winter - The Orcish warlocks discovered that controlling the rift proved to be easier as it grew larger, and within the passing of three moons, it stood ready to send a small detachment of troops to this new world. A blue circle of energy, roughly two and one half Orcs in width, was the sight that greeted the Orcish chieftains. Streaks of black and red raced across it as it crackled with otherworldly fires. Along with an agent of the shadow council, each of the six clans willing to traverse the portal, Blackrock, Twilight's Hammer, Burning Blade, Bleeding Hollow, Fireblossom and Stormreaver, chose a single warrior to join.
You mention the "agent of the shadow council" in borderline ceremonial terms, but I don't think the Shadow Council would be known about in the current time. Secret society stuff, and all that. The agent would probably secretly be the representative from the Blackrocks or Twilight's Hammer. Consider that after Doomhammer killed Blackhand, he had to torture Garona to pry out information about the very EXISTENCE of the Shadow Council along with its known members.

Looking at the clan choice now... in every source except The Last Guardian, Gul'dan doesn't form the Stormreaver Clan until he loses control over the Horde. (In the standard timeline this is after Doomhammer's coup; in the WoD timeline I assume/hope the Stormreavers wouldn't form until Garrosh's revelation turns the Iron Horde against Gul'dan.)

The Twilight's Hammer Clan was assumed to be a prestigious and historical clan until the RPG lore. I think the RPG said that Cho'gall renamed the clan from some other clan he took over? That's what people here say, anyway. It really doesn't help that Rise of the Horde never mentions Cho'gall or the Twilight's Hammer. The WoD expansion will probably give an answer that peeves me to the core, but at least it'll be an answer. Probably.

Of course, RotH also doesn't mention the Burning Blade. I don't think lore has a definitive answer on when the Burning Blade was formed, but post blood-curse seems sensible.

I needed a google search to remember that the Fireblossom Clan was your answer to the classicbattle.net claim that "Demolishers" were always a vital part of the Horde. http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...&postcount=489

There's a noticeable lack of Frostwolf Clan here. That doesn't break my heart in the slightest, but people keep telling me I need to read some book or other in which the Frostwolves pass into Azeroth and do something important later on.

Quote:

These were to enter the portal and return with a report detailing the type of lands and creatures that were to be found on the other side. As the Warlocks began their incantations to access the power of the rift, a howl began low at first, then rising in pitch like a darkwolf baying during the bloodmoon. When the sound grew near to deafening, the warriors were motioned into the circle, now alive with a thousand colours intertwined and clashing in some cosmic dance. What awaited these seven was beyond even their wildest imagining.
By the way, let me admire how you took the original Warcraft manual's "seven warriors were to enter the portal" and adapted it to represent a warrior from each clan. I really like that. A lot.

I'm adopting it into my headcanon. Only in mine, the warrior-scouts aren't representative of who will invade Azeroth later, and they come from the Blackrock, Shadowmoon (presumably Gul'dan's birthclan?), Twilight's Hammer, Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, Shattered Hand, and Dragonmaw. (The WoD clans, replacing Stormreaver and Frostwolf with Twilight's Hammer and Dragonmaw). With at least one of them being a Shadow Council agent.

Quote:

67th day of winter - For the seven experienced warriors, the sack of the village of Sudleigh was a simple matter, hardly worth the telling. Yet hundreds of times the tale was recounted, and a hundred more would be expected and relished. A group of strange, sharp edged buildings was the first sign of any true opposition they encountered. A rough dirt path lead into a trio of farms. The gray of dawn was lightening as the sun of Azeroth rose over the hilltops. Then out of the odd little hut came the first human the orcs ever encountered. Compared to the orcs, these creatures were small, pink and spare of muscle. The warriors grinned wickedly at each other, knowing that if this represented the breed of stock they would need to pen in order to take this world, victory was but a matter of moments. Rushing out of their hiding place, they swarmed upon the village and slew every living thing they could find. The males offered some small resistance, but the females and children were like taking grok to the slaughter. Their homes held few values, but their field were full of a tasty grain. Their livestock, as little as there was, also proved excellent, and what they could not eat or pack was set to the torch.
Naming the village Sudleigh, I see. I wonder if Thok was the Horde commander here.

Quote:

69th day of winter - The seven warriors brought back the looted trinkets through the portal. The trinkets were of a quality of craftsmanship unknown to the Orcs, and were quickly taken by the leaders of the seven clans for their own treasure hordes. This new world, heavy with vast expanses and soft, weak protectors would prove a rich jewel to add the crown of the Orcs.

577

6th day of summer - Llane reaches his Age of Ascension, and the full station of Prince of Azeroth is bestowed upon him. At this ceremony, tens of thousands of devoted subjects come to offer their wishes of support and long life. During the evening feast with family, and those close to the crown, a cold wind began to chill the air. A gentle breeze at first, it grew in intensity, until the doors to the great hall were blown off of their hinges. As the guests leaned into the wind, a figure entered, riding the winds like a great bird of prey.

The torches set about the great hall ignited with blue flame and the visage of Medivh was revealed. As he set down in front of the Kings table, the guard sprang to their feet. A mere pass of his hand kept them motionless - frozen in their places. The sorcerer, now a man, explained that his years of sleep had ended. The years of constant tending from the clerics of Northshire Abbey enabled him to gain control over his powers. When his spirit and body became attuned, he awakened himself, and set out to Stormwind Keep at once. Medivh explained that he had come to repay the court for the kindness it had shown to him while he was in their keeping, and to acknowledge the occasion of the Ascension ceremony for Prince Llane. From within his flowing cloak he produced an hourglass, crafted of deepest obsidian, with sands as white as undriven snow. The young prince looked closely, but although the sand seemed to constantly sift from top to bottom, the lower half never filled, and the top never emptied. Medivh claimed that these sands represented the people of the kingdom, and so long as the glass never emptied, the reign of King Adamant Wrynn would not fail.
In bringing back the original death for King Wrynn, we should consider that the other Eastern Kingdoms would probably take notice that SOMETHING is going on in Azeroth-Stormwind.

Either that, or there would need to be accounting for why they never heard about it... I've always considered that Medivh's sorcery could have created some sort of isolation barrier that prevented most news from leaking out, which would have dissipated with his death.

Quote:
583

In the years that passed, the orcs built up for their incursion. Among their most unholy projects was the creation of the dark portals, which would keep the rift between worlds permanently opened. While this allowed entire orcish armies to pass through the threshold with ease, it had dark side-effects, as life energies from Azeroth and Draenor slipped out, and arcane energies from the twisting nether slipped on.
So are you saying that the corruption of the land comes not from the dimensional tear itself, but from the magical stone constructs built along that tear?

Quote:
On Azeroth, the effects were the most severe. The entire black morass was being cleansed of plant-life, exposing the red soil beneath. Disease spread across the lands, infecting the southern regions of the redridge mountains and elwynn forest. Crops began failing with alarming regularity, even in lands as distant as Westfall. Children were stricken ill and never fully recovered. Even the moods of the subjects of Azeroth seem dark. The weather would become unseasonably cold during harvest, and the summer sun scorched the earth and made working out of the shade almost unbearable. More and more people became disheartened, and what once would have been looked over, now caused bitter argument. Neither cleric nor conjurer, mage nor templar could fathom what could be the cause of this change in the lands. Reports of the orcs were investigated, of course, but these reports were rare and vague, with most sightings of the orcs mistaking them for the dragon-men of the swamp of sorrows.
I commend you on integrating these old and new lore concepts. For those of you not in the know, this description of far-reaching disease, bad weather, and crop failure comes from the original Warcraft manual--we haven't heard much about that since the first game.

However, the concept of the "Blasted Lands"--of the portal area being red soil that is cleansed of all life--that lore came either from World of Warcraft or the leadup to it. In Warcraft and Warcraft II times, the morass was a wasteland like the Swamps of Sorrow/Swamp of Sorrows. The definition of the word "morass" even means "an area of muddy or boggy ground"--and in Beyond the Dark Portal, the levels on Azeroth side of the portal specifically use a different environment tileset than those on the Draenor side.

However, the creation of the Blasted Lands fits nicely with the extreme account of pestilence, plague, and ill-tidings consuming the Kingdom of Azeroth. I think combining the retro and modern lore here makes a nice fit.

Quote:
78th day of Winter - During a bleak morning, Prince Llane rushed to his fathers side, carrying the hourglass. During the night, the sands had run down from the top, and it was near emptied. King Wrynn took the glass into his hands, and a chill ran through the very core of his being. As the last sands trickled to the bottom of the glass, a great crashing sound was heard at the gates of Stormwind Keep. Suddenly, the grounds were filled with orcs, swarming over the Kings guard and tearing them to shreds. King Wrynn sent Llane and Queen Varia with an escort of knights to Northshire Abbey, promising to call for them when the foul beasts had been destroyed. He was slain shortly after.

Recovering from the surprise attack, the guards of Stormwind managed to repel the orcs from their city, aided by the recently arrived brotherhood of the horse. The orcs were chased for several days, with the brotherhood of Azora using scrying magics to make sure the knights were always one step ahead of the orcs. It's only when the orcs reached the swamps and the protective veils of the warlocks that the orcs were able to escape the knights.
Let me just say that if you're going to have so much fun with the Brotherhood of the Horse, you should also have as much fun with the Sythegore Arm. Maybe we can imagine that the Raiders of the Sythegore Arm were the common bond between the Blackrock and Thunderlord Clans. Or if we factor in WoD lore, call it a bond between the Blackrock, Thunderlord, and Warsong Clans (since WoD suddenly tells us the Warsong were big on raiders). We can imagine that the Sythegore Arm took a prestige hit when Doomhammer disbanded the raiders, during the post-First War purges. Since we never see wolfriders in either the game or novel version of Beyond the Dark Portal, I imagine the darkwolves died off and/or were eaten as resources dwindled. That would've been enough to dissolve what was left of the organization... and when Thrall reinstituted the raiders, he wouldn't have been eager to revive an order so historically allied with Blackhand and opposed to Doomhammer.

Quote:
Still, orcish casualties were great. The burning blade clan lost over two-thirds of its warriors in the attack, and the Bleeding Hollow and Twilight's Hammer, who had committed less soldiers to the attack, suffered notable losses as well. With the strength of the defending humans now apparent, and the need to attack as a unified force obvious, fighting broke out between the orcish chieftains about who should be in command. With the burning blade weakened, and the twilight's hammer and fireblossom specialized in naval combat, the primary contestants for the title of warchief were Kilrogg Deadeye of the Bleeding Hollow and Cho'gall of the Twilight's Hammer. Tensions between the two were high, a modicum of peace only kept by the enforcement of the Shadow Council. The two clans founded large bases on Azeroth to operate from, with the Twilight's Hammer basing themselves out of Rockard and the Bleeding Hollow out of Stonard. The Burning Blade came under close control of the shadow council, and served as the guardians of the dark portal, behind which the twilight's hammer, blackrock and fireblossom laid in wait.
You have a lot of prominence for the Burning Blade Clan here. Is it to account for the depictions of a more bloodlusted, more "demonic" Horde at the time? Do you understand the Burning Blade as a historic clan or a recent creation? Before the Shadow Council started manipulating it (as you describe above), would you understand it as a longstanding anarchy that suddenly gained a controller or as a standard chieftainship whose leader was eliminated (and which would fall into anarchy when Doomhammer purges the Shadow Council later)?

I do enjoy your reversion to the pre-warchief Horde, with different clans rallying to the Bleeding Hollow or the Twilight's Hammer at this time, and with Blackhand later emerging as a "compromise" candidate. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy in my Warcraft II gut. A world where inner political machinations characterized the humans AND the orcs both.

Funny thing I've said before, is how The Last Guardian makes no mention of Cho'gall despite noting the Twilight's Hammer's rivalry with the Bleeding Hollow and describing Kilrogg Deadeye in great detail. Garona even states that during the first attack on Stormwind, Kilrogg held his Bleeding Hollow back specifically so the Twilight's Hammer would take more damage... and the result was a shift of leadership within the Twilight's Hammer. Does this mean that The Last Guardian was trying to retcon events so that someone else led the Twilight's Hammer until the attack on Stormwind, and Cho'gall rose to chieftain there only after a reshuffling of leadership? Part of that is attractive to me; it doesn't leave the question of why an ogre would be leading an orcish clan when the orcs are enemies of the ogres (Warcraft original lore) or when the ogres were recent Horde recruits (Rise of the Horde lore). Yet of course, the disadvantage to that interpretation is that it clashes with the original Warcraft II account as well as what we'll probably get in Warlords of Draenor, when we find out more about Cho'gall leading the Twilight's Hammer.

Quote:
584

2nd day of Noblegarden -
I had to look up Noblegarden on wowpedia to find out what it was.

Quote:
At the age of twenty years, Llane is pronounced King of Azeroth. His task is clear to rid the lands of these creatures. The few that have survived battle refer to themselves as Orcs. When questioned, they will tell little else, and prefer death to releasing information. They are cruel, sadistic and vile - making no distinctions between soldier or child, warrior or woman. They will slay anyone who they encounter without a second thought. The only humans who do not fall to the Orcish blade are those who are taken to the swamps in the east, where the Orcs have made their encampments. What they do with these people is unknown, though the worst is feared for none have ever returned.
Ah, point of order! Your description of humans being taken "to the swamps in the east" was written when all of the lands around the Portal were swamp.

Now that you've introduced the modern lore of Blasted Lands, you'll need to decide whether the human prisoners were taken to these Blasted Lands near (or through) the Portal OR if they were taken to a separate camp set up in the Swamp of Sorrows.

Quote:
587

27th day of spring The razing of Firewatch Abbey and eradication of the clerics and bow-wielding templars of Saint Dastrin the Hunter.
I'd like to see this location identified on a map.

Quote:
Interrogation of captured humans has revealed the existence of Blackrock Mountain to Chieftain Blackhand of the Blackrock Clan. While the name is assumed to be nothing more than a funny coincidence, Blackhand is attracted to the tales he is told of the barely inhabited, metal-rich wastelands that surround it. Claiming the name of the mountain to be a sign of the spirits, he leads his clan through the outskirts of Redridge, avoiding the human fortresses of the duchy. Firewatch Abbey, which stands watch over the border between the kingdom of stormwind and the firey wastelands to the north, is destroyed as his clan passes.
Ah, now I have an idea of where it is. But is the Abbey destroyed BEFORE Blackhand interrogates and gets his information about Blackrock Mountain, or is it destroyed AFTER he gets the information and is passing through?

Quote:
590

5th day of Summer as the remaining dark iron fortifications of Thaurissan are destroyed, the blackrock forces become the unopposed masters of the burning steppes.
Now see, that's what the Invasion of Khaz Modan is supposed to be! Part of the First War, part of the Second War, but a separate creature unto itself.

But hey, hold on a second. I'm going to write you a prescription...

(scribble scribble scribble)

That's a prescription for one dose of conversation with Thunderbeard, Hammerbrew, and/or anyone else who considers the Dwarves the most important part of the Warcraft universe and understand this region of the world and its history far better than I ever will. I'm sure they'd love to give opinions on how the Invasion of Khaz Modan should've happened.

Quote:
To control the entire region, Blackhand splits his clan in three. He himself remains in control of the Blackrock Clan, while his right-hand warlord Zuluhed is the new chieftain of the Dragonmaw Clan (named for an injury Zuluhed received against the black dragons of the region) and his sons Rend and Maim the joined chieftains of the Black Tooth Grin Clan (named for the replacement of Black Hand's right tusk). Orgrim Doomhammer gains Zuluhed's position in the blackrock clan
Yay for mentioning Blackhand's tooth!

I'm not as much a fan of the Dragonmaw being split from the Blackrock... they've already been split apart plenty. I understand why you're doing it; you're accounting for the clan being named for dragons despite dragons being an Azeroth race. Yet consider that Zuluhed is an elderly shaman who's eccentric enough to have the nickname "the Whacked", and to me at least it doesn't feel like he'd be a second-in-command to Blackhand. If I had my druthers, I'd have the Dragonmaw be a historical clan that gets renamed after encountering the dragons. Or maybe having the Dragonmaw formed from a variety of clans whose members were eager to control the dragons, similar to how the Stormreavers were probably formed from surviving warlocks from a variety of clans. Of course, it's your perogative if you want to go with a Blackrock split.

Quote:
593

27th day of Summer - Nearly ten years of skirmishes and raids along the Borderlands have kept the people of Azeroth wary, but the Orcish hordes have been contained within the swamps. King Llane has found that the Orcs, though incredibly strong and vicious, were seldom well trained in combat, and always disorganized. This has been the key to holding them at bay, and is the weakness he hopes to exploit in the future. The mystery that no Cleric or Conjurer had found the answer to, though, was the origin of these creatures.

In the tenth year of his reign, King Llane is visited by the mysterious traveler, who now identified herself as Aegwynn.
Your timeline hasn't mentioned Aegwynn before, so this would be "a" mysterious traveler.

Quote:
She has come to the King with a warning that she hopes will aid him in his fight against this nemesis to his land. The coupling between the Kings Conjurer and herself was intended to create a child that she could pass the power of the guardian to. However, she had been unaware that a demonic presence had taken hold in her own body years before, transferring into the child as she gave birth to him. Medivh had become the vessel for Sargeras, lord of all demons.

She sought him out only a fortnight before, and found that the powers that coursed through his veins and the spirit locked within had twisted him, making him insane. Realizing the threat he now posed, she was forced to attempt to destroy him. He all but slew her, taking from her the staff of Atiesh, which she had used to give him the power of the guardian.

The battle left both combatants drained, but Medivh held enough power to banish her from his sight, and command her never to return. His enchantment on her was strong enough that even she cannot break this bond, and so can offer no aid in his downfall. The traveler also informs King Llane that it was Medivh who was responsible for the coming of the Orcs to Azeroth. During the battle with his father, he opened a gateway to the domain that they, and many other foul creatures, call home. However, not even Medivh himself has any control over the orcish horde.
Interesting. In this version of events, with Sargeras still hiding within Medivh but not attempting to negotiate with Gul'dan, what would be Sargeras's plan and ultimate goal?

Quote:
91st day of Summer The united forces of the blackrock, dragonmaw and black tooth grin clans break through the dark iron defenses and wash over most of the mountain. The dark iron remnants remain in control of Shadowforge City, but the horde now control the majority of the mountain
I thought the final dark iron fortifications fell three years ago? I guess you meant the fortifications around the Burning Steppes.

Quote:
On the Architecture of Blackrock Mountain

As the dark iron dwarves moved into the mountain, they started carving a massive city complex into the north-eastern side, reaching from near the top of the mountain to below its ground level. The complex was divided between several different facilities based on level.

-The lowest levels of the complex were called shadowforge city, which served as the capital of the dark iron empire and the home to the higher classes of citizens. It was home to the lyceum (the palace of the emperor), the summoners' tomb (where the spirits that had summoned Ragnaros were placed), the various golem-crafting facilities (including the mines for the rock needed to craft them, the laboratories that put them together, the foundries that coated them in dark iron and the chamber of enchantment where runes were placed on them), the halls of the law (home to the ring of the law, a courthouse/gladiatorial arena, and a large prison complex), the shrine of thaurissan, the black forge and the black anvil. Before the coming of the horde, only the most affluent of citizens were allowed to live here. It was the only part of the city that remained under the control of the dark iron dwarves, who collapsed all tunnels to the higher parts of the city. Roughly equivalent to Blackrock Depths in World of Warcraft.

-Above shadowforge city lies Ironstar Fortress. The fortress guards the gates of blackrock mountain and the molten span. Roughly equivalent to the uninstanced rim that surrounds the volcanic heart of blackrock mountain in WoW.

-Above Ironstar Fortress lies Anvilrage City, home to the lower classes of the dark iron empire. Upon ascencion to the throne of warchief, Blackhand renamed it into Hordemar City. Roughly equivalent to Lower Blackrock Spire in WoW.

-Above Anvilrage City lies Dragonspire Fortress, home to the strong offensive core of the dark iron armies. It is a massive complex, designed to house tens of thousands of soldiers. In Dragonspire Stadium (renamed blackrock stadium by the orcs), soldiers would hold brutal gladiatorial battles before the officers to gain status. Roughly equivalent to Upper Blackrock Spire in WoW.

-Finally, at the top of the city complex was the athenaeum, which served as a college of the magical arts. Arcane magic, pyromancy, runic magic, warlock magics and alchemy were all taught in the massive halls of the complex. Deep within the athenaeum lies the vault of the shadowflame, where the dark iron empire kept its most powerful artifacts. From here, Zuluhed claimed the dragon soul, using it to absorb several fire elementals wholesale and causing the rest to retreat to the depths of the mountain.
Burning Steppes geography is way over my head. There wasn't much about it in the old lore, and the WoW zones are too high level for me to browse around much.

Now, you have Zuluhed discovering the Dragon Soul here. Are you still saying that Deathwing led him to find it, through visions? I'd have to go back and look at the passages in DotD and ToD... but I remember reading that Zuluhed could not make the Dragon Soul work himself, that it was Nekros who was first able to wield it. Was that talking about all the uses of the Dragon Soul, or just the dragon-controlling part? I honestly don't remember, nor do I remember how much of a role the Dragon Soul had in controlling the fire elemental Nekros had on guard duty. I just remember that Nekros's ability to wield the Dragon Soul while Zuluhed could not was a source of small pride for him.

Quote:
45th day of fall With blackrock mountain secured, Blackhand takes a squadron of his best warriors back south, to get in touch with the other clans. Zuluhed takes his clan further north, encountering the bronzebeard dwarves. Warning shots from the mortar cannons are enough to teach Zuluhed to keep his distance, circling the kingdom by traveling through the badlands. On the 45th of fall, the dragonmaw clan finds the banished frostwolf clan, and the dragonmaw attack. Caught between hammer and anvil, the frostwolves are forced to retreat into the dwarven kingdom of Khaz Modan. The dragonmaw continue to skirt past the border of the dwarven kingdom.
This is your first mention of the Frostwolf Clan, since you didn't list them among those going into Azeroth. But I already said that earlier.

I wouldn't have expected the advancing Horde to encounter the Frostwolves here. I guess you're giving an explanation for why they kept marching until they reached the Alterac Valley.

Had the Frostwolve skirmished with any Dark Irons or Bronzebeards before this point, or did they sneak to this area unnoticed?

Quote:
594

34th day of spring Blackhand returns to the dark portal with his veteran warriors, taking with him dark iron treasures and speaking of his many victories. Alongside his warriors stand several fire simulacrums (note: the fire elementals from warcraft I), created by Nekros Skullcrusher. Nekros had been given the dragon soul by Zuluhed, and had used the essence of the absorbed elementals to create loyal elemental servants.
Now of course, in Warcraft I the fire elementals were neutral creeps and the orcs summoned daemons themselves. I suppose this is combining the "orcs summoned something" aspect of Warcraft I with the fire simulacrums we know Nekros had later on.

Quote:
595

2nd day of spring The dragonmaw clan finds the ruins of Grim Batol, which they decide to turn into a fortress. Their blood coursing with fel energies, they have no bearing the dark powers that have kept the dwarves away from the mountain. Nekros even uses the Dragon Soul to start absorbing portions of the remaining shadow magic, intent on using it to summon more servants.

7th day of spring having sensed Nekros' manipulation of dark energies, Alexstrasza the dragon queen attacks Grim Batol, escorted by many of her mates and elder children. Too late does she realize the artifact that Nekros holds, and she falls before its power, enslaved by the dragonmaw clan.
I have mixed feelings about having the Dragonmaw as far north as Grim Batol, already controlling dragons three years before the First War ends. The novel doesn't have dragons in action until the midst of the Second War, in Quel'thalas. If you ignore the novel, the dragons aren't brought into action until the final phases of the Second War.

Quote:
596

11th day of fall On his quest for the Tome of Divinity,
Ah, the Tome of Divinity. What in the world was that thing good for, anyway?

Quote:
Sir Anduin Lothar, highlord of the brotherhood of the horse, enters the deadmines. He and his men are captured by Turok and his fellow Muskwind ogres. Turok had been an ogre slave in the bleeding hollow clan of orcs, but had escaped with a large group of other ogres, seeking refuge in the deadmines. The ogres killed the men under Lothar's command, but spared the highlord, hoping to use him as a bargaining chip if the orcs were ever to attack.
It's always been difficult to figure out how the "rescue Lothar" mission coexists with the "kill Griselda" mission, especially since both happen in the Dead Mines at the same point in the game (Level 4). It means that, basically, a group of ogres is going to get killed twice in the same place. Unavoidably awkward to reconcile, in my opinion.

It looks like you're taking the staggered approach, with the Human campaign beginning slightly before the Orc one. That of course takes Lothar's and Garona's timedating at face value, with Lothar referring to current events as 10 years after the orcs appeared (593) and Garona referring to current avents as 15 years after (598).

Quote:
72nd day of fall To avert a war between the twilight's hammer and the bleeding hollow, the shadow council recreates the ancient position of warchief. Because of his great victories in the north, and the many magical artifacts he has offered the shadow council, Blackhand becomes the first to take this title. Blackhand's strategy is to take out Stormwind in a single, quick offensive, now that they still underestimate the orcs. To this end, the horde starts to prepare, building new outposts in the black morass and the swamp of sorrows from which to strike (Note: WCI, orc mission 1 and 2). Orgrim Doomhammer is placed in command of the southern orcish forces, while Blackhand remains in command of the northern ones.

598

3rd day of spring Blackhand's grand offensive starts,
Orcish offensive starting in 598. Good, I do see what you're doing!

Quote:
with Orgrim Doomhammer leading an attack on the Grand Hamlet, the capital city of the duchy of Elwynn. The human defenders did not expect the orcs to launch an organized offensive and are quickly overwhelmed. The battle of Grand Hamlet is a one-sided massacre (Note: WCI, orc mission 3)

7th day of spring With the Grand Hamlet destroyed, Stonebrook Keep soon follows. Despite valiant defensive efforts by the knights of the Brotherhood of Thorns, the Twilight's Hammer forces slay Duke Grigori and his entire family, as well as most of the brotherhood of Thorns.
I'm not getting hits for Stonebrook Keep and Duke Grigori. Are they original creations? I see some others here.

A question I have is, between these towns and the orders of certain saints... have you had these locations and people in your headcanon for a while, or did you come up with them as you developed this timeline? I know your Fireblossom Clan has a backstory. Do the other original creations have them as well?

Quote:
9th day of spring Griselda defects from the horde, fleeing to lands unknown. Blackhand sends Wolf-riders to track her down.

15th day of spring As Blackhand predicted, Doomhammer's attack on the grand hamlet caused the humans to focus their defenses, sending forces from all throughout the land to counter him. Taking advantage of this, he launches the northern campaign by striking against the duchy of Redridge. The Blackrock and Black Tooth Grin have Stonewatch as the main target in their first strike, with the town of Wellhaven becoming the first victim of their assault.

17th day of spring Sir Alistair Duval, highlord of the knights of the golden songbird, leads the azerothian forces against Doomhammer's army. To cut off Doomhammer's reinforcements, they strike against Kyross, an outpost of the burning blade clan (Note: WCI, Human mission 3). A few survivors from Kyross make it out, warning Doomhammer of the incoming army.
So "Sir Alistair Duval, Knight of the Golden Songbird" is the name of our Human commander, eh? Sounds like a fancy pants!

Quote:
21st day of Spring. The armies of Doomhamer and Duval meet at the Crystal Fields. The Battle of the Crystal Fields becomes the first evenly matched battle of the war, with the humans having a numerical advantage, but underestimating the orcish intelligence. In the end, it's Orgrim's fire simulacrums and the dark casters of the twilight's hammer clan that manage to counter the human forces, though both suffer heavy losses, and aren't seen in number under Orgrim's command for the rest of the war. Orgrim's forces fortify their position, waiting for more orders from Blackhand to arrive
Is this based on an in-game mission? It could work for Orc Mission 10 (http://wowpedia.org/Orcs_%26_Humans_...he_Human_Lands) , which has no real name but is described as a Human training camp. But I didn't see a citation, so I don't know if you're going that way.

Again, I'm understanding the Fire Simulacrums as replacements for summoned Daemons? Why are the Twilight's Hammer Clan the exclusive source of dark casters here? Specifically, is it because the warlocks come mainly from their clan, or is it because they happen to be the strongest clan on this front?

Quote:
19th day of spring Blackhand's forces annihilate the city of Stonewatch and destroy the keep, killing Duke Christopher Lanks, as well as razing Stonewatch Abbey and slaughtering the clerics of Saint Cristopher the Devout.

25th day of spring The wolf-riders report back to Blackhand that they have found Griselda in the Deadmines, where she and a few followers had joined with the Muskwind ogres. Blackhand's forces are busy dealing with assaults from the various mountain baronies of Redridge, so he sends orders to Doomhammer to deal with it.

37th day of spring Griselda and Turok had prepared well for an assault by the horde. However, what they didn't expect was for Sir Alistair Duval to lead a small human strike force of elite knights and clerics against her. Following a vision by a cleric in Northshire, Duval was sent to free Anduin Lothar. He succeeded, and at a high cost for Griselda and Turok's forces (Note: WCI, human mission 4)

39th day of spring before they even recovered from the assault by Duval, Doomhammer's forces arrive, led by Varok Saurfang. Griselda, the orcs that followed her and the muskwind ogres are slaughtered to the last man. (Note: WCI, human mission 5)
Again, I've never had an elegant solution for incorporating both Lothar's rescue and Griselda's assassination simultaneously. It still feels jarring here, but you're doing the best you can with what we have to work with.

Quote:
72nd day of spring Aaron Lanks, the new duke of Redridge, launches a counter-assault against blackhand's forces. His forces attack the newly established orcish outpost of Bloodfall, conquering it and capturing many of the orcs. Under his orders, the remaining nobles of the eastern mountains and the mages of Ilgalar launch a simultaneous attack against Blackhand's main base in Stonewatch. Blackhand sends for reinforcements from Doomhammer.

81st day of spring Doomhammer's forces liberate Bloodfall. (Note: WCI, orc mission 5)

84th day of spring Doomhammer's forces manage to break through the defenses of Lakeshire, rushing the town and slaying Aaron Lanks. (Note: WCI, orc mission 5)

91st day of spring The arrival of additional blackrock forces from the north breaks the human siege of Stonewatch, and the attackers retreat.

4th day of summer Blackhand and his forces attack the town of Braewich and the tower of Ilgalar. Despite the best efforts from the local mages and defenders, there is little they can against the orcish catapults that pulverize the town and mage tower from afar. Interested in the magics shown by the mages of Ilgalar, Blackhand has one tortured into revealing the location of a second mage tower, that of Azora, in the town of Sunnyglade. Blackhand orders Doomhammer to assault the town and take the mage tower.

17th day of summer Doomhammer assaults Sunnyglade, taking the tower of Azora. (Note: WCI, orc mission 6)
The Sunnyglade stuff is among my favorite parts of Warcraft I, and one with such a wide range of possible retro-headcanon. What did the orcs find in that tower? Did Gul'dan inspect it himself? Did its information have an impact on later orcish magicks, such as summoning?

But hey, you only have half of it! Consider making the orcs take prisoners for experimentation, and then you can have the humans liberate those prisoners for Human Level 7. You need to do that, if only for the sake of my headcanon about Sky Admiral Catherine Rogers---that her mother and halfbrother were imprisoned here but then rescued by the human force.

?

Quote:
21st day of summer the kingdom of Azeroth is in a panic by now. Many are convinced that the invading orcs are punishment from the heavens, because the clergy has failed to carry out the will of the light. Brigands and deserted soldiers assault Northshire Abbey, with the clerics sending a magic distress signal.

27th day of summer Alistair Duval and his men come to the aid of Northshire, slaying the attacking rebels. (Note: WCI, human mission 6) Among the brigands, they discover Garona, who had been manipulating them. She is captured and held in the abbey.
Best explanation I've ever heard for the human-vs.-human mission at Northshire.

Quote:
41st day of summer Doomhammer's forces assault Northshire Abbey (Note: WCI, Orc mission 8). The clerics of Saint Seraph the Exalted are slaughtered, though a few manage to teleport to Stormwind City, carrying sacred tomes of knowledge. Alistair Duval is killed in battle, leadership of the alliance armies shifting to sir anduin lothar.
Okay, I didn't realize Duval outranked Lothar, since they were both highlords of different knightly orders. Maybe Duval should also come from an influential house of nobles? (Or is a highlord already from a noble house, since we know Lothar was as noble as they come? I don't know.)

Quote:
57th day of summer The battles in Redridge become more intense, with the abbot of Eastervale having taken control of the remaining Azerothian forces in the region. The templars of Eastervale Abbey, dedicated to saint marilyn of the sacred vows, are deadly bare-handed fighters. Like the orcs, they are capable of climbing fortress walls with ease. After two attempts on his life, Blackhand retreats to Blackrock Mountain, even as he sends more soldiers from there to aid in Redridge.
Ha. Who says all Monk trainers have to be Pandaren? But what would a "templar" be, in this universe? A monk-priest-paladin combo? In the real world the Templars were named after the Temple of Solomon. What are they named for in this universe? Were they related to some historic crusade, or are they simply defenders of the church's lands? (I know Blizzard doesn't go to such trouble in rationalizing its names, but that doesn't mean we can't!)

Are the orcs capable of climbing fortress walls with ease? I assume you're referring to a capable use of ladders and siege-breaking tactics, instead of physically being able to grab hands and feet into a wall?

When you say two attempts on Blackhand's life, are you referring to Eastervale assassins or internal orcish conspirators?

Quote:
63rd day of summer Gul'dan falls into a coma
You're gonna need some explanation here!

The original account had Gul'dan in a trance-like state because he realized Medivh was under attack, and the Tomb of Sargeras's location would be lost forever if Medivh were killed, and so he delved into the Twisting Nether to find Medivh and steal the secret from his mind before he died. But Gul'dan was still searching Medivh's mind when the wizard was killed, and the lack of surge protector sent our boy Gully into his coma.

You don't seem to be going this route; you had a different first contact than Gul'dan and Medivh meeting as projections in the Twisting Nether, and your timeline doesn't kill Medivh until the fall season. In that case, you'll need an alternative explanation for why Gul'dan falls into his coma now.

Quote:
71st day of summer Doomhammer assassinates Blackhand, becoming chieftain of the blackrock clan and warchief of the horde. Varok Saurfang is placed in charge of the battles in Redridge, while Doomhammer returns to the armies in Elwynn, scouring the remaining outposts in the north (Note: WCI, Orc mission 9)
I see you went with the Warcraft II version, rather than the Warcraft I version or the modern version.

Quote:
89th day of summer Saurfang's armies destroy Eastervale. The remnants of the azerothian redrige armies retreat into the mountains.

7th day of fall The duchy of westwood sends nearly all of its remaining forces east, intent on striking directly against the dark portal. The azerothian forces are gathered at Raven's Hill, waiting for Anduin Lothar to finish his mission of killing Medivh. However, the alliance plans are leaked to the horde forces.

12th day of fall Medivh is slain by Anduin Lothar (Note: WCI, Human mission 8)

13th day of fall Doomhammer's army strikes against the gathered forces at Raven Hill, destroying them (Note: WCI, Orc mission 10). Anduin Lothar returns to find nothing but slaughter. He returns to Stormwind City.
Ah, HERE is Orc Mission 10.

Quote:
73rd day of fall The orcs begin their final push against Stormwind City by simultaneously attacking Moonbrook and Goldshire(Note: WCI, Orc mission 11), at the same moment that Garona kills king Llane. Saurfang easily crushes Goldshire, but Doomhammer has more problem in Moonbrook. The riders of the west, the clerical orders of Saint Andrews the Just and Saint Rames the Purifier and the mages of Mortwake's Tower make their final stand in Moonbrook, their sacrifice buying the civilians time to flee into the dagger hills.

83rd day of fall The attack on Stormwind City begins, as Saurfang starts his assault. Only the guards of stormwind, the guild of conjurors and the brotherhood of the horse are left to offer significant resistance. Anduin Lothar orders the fleet to start evacuating.

87th day of fall Doomhammer's army arrives to reinforce Saurfang's encampment, and the two combined armies overwhelm the defenses of Stormwind. In a desperate last rush, Anduin Lothar manages to retrieve Varian Wrynn from the keep, carrying him to safety before the catapults destroy it. Lothar and Varian are among the last to flee the city, setting sail for Lordaeron. (Note: WCI, Orc Mission 12)
One more detail to fill in: when was Varian born? Based on his age of ascension, Llane would be 34 years old at his death? So there's definitely time to sire an heir, even if he was very young when the Horde invades.

Okay, looking at the dating now... we have a First War with the Portal crossing and first skirmish in 576, the First Battle of Stormwind in 583, and the end of the war in 598. The focal point of the retrotimelines is definitely 583--you have events thrown in for 593 (Lothar's +10 year version) and for 598 (Garona's +15 year version), with the final Horde campaign taking up that single final year so it doesn't drag on. Okay.

When looking to the future... since we'll ignore the Warcraft II retcon about the First War lasting only 5 years (or lasting 5 years after Blackhand becomes warchief, depending on interpretation), it's possible we may or may not ignore the BtDP naming of Year 606 as when the Bleeding Hollow crosses back to Draenor.

And I'm realizing something else... for the longest time I've had issues with the BtDP manual reference to the Bleeding Hollow Clan having been in Azeroth-world for "over thirty years", but I was only starting the years at 583. You realized something obvious that I've always missed... that although Garona gives no years for reference, Lothar tells us that Medivh fought his father in 571 and that this opened the dimensional tear, and Garona tells us the orcs passed a single scout through as soon as they discovered the tear. Starting from closer to this year than to 583, it's easy enough to place the Bleeding Hollow in the new world for over 30 years by the time 606 comes. It's just a long time between the orcs' arrival and the humans' discovery of them... which was how the narrative was going in Warcraft I days.

Nice work! A really enjoyable study!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-11-2014, 08:46 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Sorry for the delayed response; you have a lot here! Good stuff about important periods of lore!
Many thanks for the expansive response!

Quote:
Breaking things down by seasons? Always impressive, though usually too intimidating for me. One wonders how the seasonal calendar of Azeroth looks, and how its months are affected by having two moons.

Do we have any lore about how months are broken down?
In-game, months are the same as in real life. Since there's two moons, I thought that was silly, so I decided instead to drop months entirely. Years are broken down into four seasons of 91 days, with noblegarden serving as new year celebration.

Quote:
Teleportation is fancy! I think that type of magic showed up in the Warcraft III era, where it was something you'd expect to see from Mages rather than Priests. Yet of course, Warcraft II lore told us that Invisibility magic started with the Clerics before the Mages adopted it. And of course, even the original account has Conjurers showing up to assist the Clerics here.
Yeah, that was a bit of tough lore to reconcile. My end-solution was to make the clerics of Northshire hybrid casters, who serve the divine, but also study the arcane.

Quote:
Clerics of Saint Seraph! Now you've verified saints in the Church of the Holy Light now as well as the possibility of Angels (if St. Seraph here is named after the angelic beings or if it describes such a being itself).
Saint Seraph is not related to angels, but I did have the possibility of angels earlier on. Check the Lordaeron post for a quick explanation of the different interpretations of the light.

Quote:
I also see you've listed other saints throughout your post. Good touches. What would you say is a qualification for being a saint in the world of Azeroth? Is there anything like a "heaven" here? Or does it more relate to how well one served the Light during life?
I'm currently working on the expanded listing of all the eight/nine clerical orders. The basic idea is that the anglican interpretation of the light holds that humanity is on a path to becoming one with the light, and saints are people recognized by the clerics as having been far ahead on that path.

Quote:
Whoa. You've gone back to the original Warcraft: Orcs & Humans explanation that the portal's creation was accidental? That's heavy. It might have trouble meshing with the lore that comes after it, mind you.
Nah, it was still on purpose, though by Sargeras rather than Medivh. The idea is that Sargeras didn't have access to his own power while in Medivh's body, so he had to perform a ridiculously powerful sacrificial ritual instead.

Quote:
Is this the same warfare presented in Rise of the Horde, infighting among clans due to lack of resources and lingering demonbloodlust without a common enemy?
Yarrr

Quote:
You mention the "agent of the shadow council" in borderline ceremonial terms, but I don't think the Shadow Council would be known about in the current time. Secret society stuff, and all that. The agent would probably secretly be the representative from the Blackrocks or Twilight's Hammer. Consider that after Doomhammer killed Blackhand, he had to torture Garona to pry out information about the very EXISTENCE of the Shadow Council along with its known members.
The agent of the shadow council was not there under that title. It was the same warrior who passed through the portal initially, so the others thought he was there based on experience, rather than representation.

Quote:
Looking at the clan choice now... in every source except The Last Guardian, Gul'dan doesn't form the Stormreaver Clan until he loses control over the Horde. (In the standard timeline this is after Doomhammer's coup; in the WoD timeline I assume/hope the Stormreavers wouldn't form until Garrosh's revelation turns the Iron Horde against Gul'dan.)
Actually, I do remember thinking about that and changing some references to the clan later on. Guess I wasn't thorough enough. Let me cook up an alternative clan...

Quote:
The Twilight's Hammer Clan was assumed to be a prestigious and historical clan until the RPG lore. I think the RPG said that Cho'gall renamed the clan from some other clan he took over? That's what people here say, anyway. It really doesn't help that Rise of the Horde never mentions Cho'gall or the Twilight's Hammer. The WoD expansion will probably give an answer that peeves me to the core, but at least it'll be an answer. Probably.

Of course, RotH also doesn't mention the Burning Blade. I don't think lore has a definitive answer on when the Burning Blade was formed, but post blood-curse seems sensible.

I needed a google search to remember that the Fireblossom Clan was your answer to the classicbattle.net claim that "Demolishers" were always a vital part of the Horde. http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...&postcount=489

There's a noticeable lack of Frostwolf Clan here. That doesn't break my heart in the slightest, but people keep telling me I need to read some book or other in which the Frostwolves pass into Azeroth and do something important later on.
I didn't plan for frostwolves to be part of the initial expedition, instead remaining on Draenor until they were banished. If I cut out the stormreaver, I could add in a frostwolf instead and have them banished at some point afterwards.

Quote:
I'm adopting it into my headcanon. Only in mine, the warrior-scouts aren't representative of who will invade Azeroth later, and they come from the Blackrock, Shadowmoon (presumably Gul'dan's birthclan?), Twilight's Hammer, Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, Shattered Hand, and Dragonmaw. (The WoD clans, replacing Stormreaver and Frostwolf with Twilight's Hammer and Dragonmaw). With at least one of them being a Shadow Council agent.
I actually considered the warsong for a while, but decided it would be a bit silly for clans to be part of the expedition, but not join the overall invasion later on.

Quote:
In bringing back the original death for King Wrynn, we should consider that the other Eastern Kingdoms would probably take notice that SOMETHING is going on in Azeroth-Stormwind.

Either that, or there would need to be accounting for why they never heard about it... I've always considered that Medivh's sorcery could have created some sort of isolation barrier that prevented most news from leaking out, which would have dissipated with his death.
There was big unrest among the other kingdoms when Wrynn's death was first announced, but the quick routing of the orcs and their infighting didn't help their reputation any. Within a few years, the orcs were regarded as nothing more than another race of creeps. They were nasty, sure, but nothing Azeroth couldn't deal with on its own.

Quote:
So are you saying that the corruption of the land comes not from the dimensional tear itself, but from the magical stone constructs built along that tear?
The corruption comes from energies flowing through the tear. In normal state, the amount of corruption slipping through it is actually very low, only spreading about a mile. However, the dark portal keeps the tear permanently open, causing massive amounts of energy to slip through

Quote:
Let me just say that if you're going to have so much fun with the Brotherhood of the Horse, you should also have as much fun with the Sythegore Arm. Maybe we can imagine that the Raiders of the Sythegore Arm were the common bond between the Blackrock and Thunderlord Clans. Or if we factor in WoD lore, call it a bond between the Blackrock, Thunderlord, and Warsong Clans (since WoD suddenly tells us the Warsong were big on raiders). We can imagine that the Sythegore Arm took a prestige hit when Doomhammer disbanded the raiders, during the post-First War purges. Since we never see wolfriders in either the game or novel version of Beyond the Dark Portal, I imagine the darkwolves died off and/or were eaten as resources dwindled. That would've been enough to dissolve what was left of the organization... and when Thrall reinstituted the raiders, he wouldn't have been eager to revive an order so historically allied with Blackhand and opposed to Doomhammer.
I honestly haven't really considered what to do with the Sythegore Arm.

Quote:
You have a lot of prominence for the Burning Blade Clan here. Is it to account for the depictions of a more bloodlusted, more "demonic" Horde at the time? Do you understand the Burning Blade as a historic clan or a recent creation? Before the Shadow Council started manipulating it (as you describe above), would you understand it as a longstanding anarchy that suddenly gained a controller or as a standard chieftainship whose leader was eliminated (and which would fall into anarchy when Doomhammer purges the Shadow Council later)?
They were a standard chieftainship before, and not really that terrible of a clan. It was the massive losses at Stormwind that removed most of their leadership and allowed to be placed under the close control of the shadow council. That influence, as well as the exposure to the dark portal, is what turned them into the blood-thirsty demon-worshippers we all know and love. The anarchy does indeed come from the purge of the shadow council.

Quote:
Funny thing I've said before, is how The Last Guardian makes no mention of Cho'gall despite noting the Twilight's Hammer's rivalry with the Bleeding Hollow and describing Kilrogg Deadeye in great detail. Garona even states that during the first attack on Stormwind, Kilrogg held his Bleeding Hollow back specifically so the Twilight's Hammer would take more damage... and the result was a shift of leadership within the Twilight's Hammer. Does this mean that The Last Guardian was trying to retcon events so that someone else led the Twilight's Hammer until the attack on Stormwind, and Cho'gall rose to chieftain there only after a reshuffling of leadership? Part of that is attractive to me; it doesn't leave the question of why an ogre would be leading an orcish clan when the orcs are enemies of the ogres (Warcraft original lore) or when the ogres were recent Horde recruits (Rise of the Horde lore). Yet of course, the disadvantage to that interpretation is that it clashes with the original Warcraft II account as well as what we'll probably get in Warlords of Draenor, when we find out more about Cho'gall leading the Twilight's Hammer.
I'm going with the warcraft II and Warlords of Draenor version, with little augmentation. Basically, some orcish clans simply had ogre members, and Cho'gall rose to the position of chieftain in the same way an orc would have. However, just because they had some ogre members doesn't mean that they got along with the ogre clans.

Quote:
Ah, point of order! Your description of humans being taken "to the swamps in the east" was written when all of the lands around the Portal were swamp.

Now that you've introduced the modern lore of Blasted Lands, you'll need to decide whether the human prisoners were taken to these Blasted Lands near (or through) the Portal OR if they were taken to a separate camp set up in the Swamp of Sorrows.
They were taken to Stonard and Rockard. Rockard was still swampy at the time, but was overtaken by the expansion of the blasted lands before the end of the second war.

Quote:
Ah, now I have an idea of where it is. But is the Abbey destroyed BEFORE Blackhand interrogates and gets his information about Blackrock Mountain, or is it destroyed AFTER he gets the information and is passing through?
Afterwards. Blackhand destroys the abbey on his way to blackrock mountain



Quote:
Now see, that's what the Invasion of Khaz Modan is supposed to be! Part of the First War, part of the Second War, but a separate creature unto itself.

But hey, hold on a second. I'm going to write you a prescription...

(scribble scribble scribble)

That's a prescription for one dose of conversation with Thunderbeard, Hammerbrew, and/or anyone else who considers the Dwarves the most important part of the Warcraft universe and understand this region of the world and its history far better than I ever will. I'm sure they'd love to give opinions on how the Invasion of Khaz Modan should've happened.
I'm working out some details I want in there myself, before consulting Thunderbraid.

Quote:
Yay for mentioning Blackhand's tooth!

I'm not as much a fan of the Dragonmaw being split from the Blackrock... they've already been split apart plenty. I understand why you're doing it; you're accounting for the clan being named for dragons despite dragons being an Azeroth race. Yet consider that Zuluhed is an elderly shaman who's eccentric enough to have the nickname "the Whacked", and to me at least it doesn't feel like he'd be a second-in-command to Blackhand.
The Zuluhed comment is a good one. I'll have to do some work on his previous position. Very involved elder shaman of the blackrock sounds likely. One of Blackhand's sons would have been the second-in-command instead.

Quote:
Interesting. In this version of events, with Sargeras still hiding within Medivh but not attempting to negotiate with Gul'dan, what would be Sargeras's plan and ultimate goal?
Honestly, I completely forgot about the Gul'dan/Medivh negotiations. I'm going to slot those back in.

Quote:
I thought the final dark iron fortifications fell three years ago? I guess you meant the fortifications around the Burning Steppes.
The initial fortifications that were destroyed were in the burning steppes. The dark iron fortifications that get destroyed here were the defenses of Ironstar Fortress, within the mountain itself.

Quote:
Now, you have Zuluhed discovering the Dragon Soul here. Are you still saying that Deathwing led him to find it, through visions? I'd have to go back and look at the passages in DotD and ToD... but I remember reading that Zuluhed could not make the Dragon Soul work himself, that it was Nekros who was first able to wield it. Was that talking about all the uses of the Dragon Soul, or just the dragon-controlling part? I honestly don't remember, nor do I remember how much of a role the Dragon Soul had in controlling the fire elemental Nekros had on guard duty. I just remember that Nekros's ability to wield the Dragon Soul while Zuluhed could not was a source of small pride for him.
Zuluhed is still guided towards the dragon soul by visions given to him by Deathwing, though he doesn't know that they're from him. He does understand from the visions that the dragon soul is tied to the dragons, which is why he gets frustrated



Quote:
This is your first mention of the Frostwolf Clan, since you didn't list them among those going into Azeroth. But I already said that earlier.

I wouldn't have expected the advancing Horde to encounter the Frostwolves here. I guess you're giving an explanation for why they kept marching until they reached the Alterac Valley.
Aye, I mentioned it earlier in the post looking at the orcish clans of the new horde.

Quote:
Had the Frostwolve skirmished with any Dark Irons or Bronzebeards before this point, or did they sneak to this area unnoticed?
Small-time skirmishes with the dark iron, but no conflict with the bronzebeard, staying south of their border.

Quote:
I have mixed feelings about having the Dragonmaw as far north as Grim Batol, already controlling dragons three years before the First War ends. The novel doesn't have dragons in action until the midst of the Second War, in Quel'thalas. If you ignore the novel, the dragons aren't brought into action until the final phases of the Second War.
While the dragonmaw have already taken Grim Batol, they have only captured a handful of dragons. It takes them several years to raise new dragons and learn to ride them. It's mainly there to explain how the orcs were so thoroughly embedded in certain parts of Khaz Modan.

Quote:
Ah, the Tome of Divinity. What in the world was that thing good for, anyway?
It's a study on the nature of divine magic. Lothar was getting it for the clerics of Northshire.

Quote:
I'm not getting hits for Stonebrook Keep and Duke Grigori. Are they original creations? I see some others here.

A question I have is, between these towns and the orders of certain saints... have you had these locations and people in your headcanon for a while, or did you come up with them as you developed this timeline? I know your Fireblossom Clan has a backstory. Do the other original creations have them as well?
They're indeed original creations, aye. I've had most of them in headcanon for a while, and they've all got backstories, detailed in the Kingdom of Azeroth post that I'm working on.

The names of the saints are all from the TCG though.

Quote:
Is this based on an in-game mission? It could work for Orc Mission 10 (http://wowpedia.org/Orcs_%26_Humans_...he_Human_Lands) , which has no real name but is described as a Human training camp. But I didn't see a citation, so I don't know if you're going that way.
Not based on mission 10. Mostly there to show where the armies of Redridge went and to give a big human resistance push (in the warcraft I missions, the winning side really didn't face a lot of adversity)

Quote:
Again, I'm understanding the Fire Simulacrums as replacements for summoned Daemons? Why are the Twilight's Hammer Clan the exclusive source of dark casters here? Specifically, is it because the warlocks come mainly from their clan, or is it because they happen to be the strongest clan on this front?
The dark casters are actually the necrolytes rather than the warlocks. The latter are still staying in the shadows a lot. The twilight's hammer are the ones that have access to Gul'dan's school for necrolytes.

Quote:
The Sunnyglade stuff is among my favorite parts of Warcraft I, and one with such a wide range of possible retro-headcanon. What did the orcs find in that tower? Did Gul'dan inspect it himself? Did its information have an impact on later orcish magicks, such as summoning?
The mages of Azora were experts in scrying magics, and the warlocks used the stolen knowledge for a number of detection and spying spells, such as the eye of Kilrogg.

Quote:
But hey, you only have half of it! Consider making the orcs take prisoners for experimentation, and then you can have the humans liberate those prisoners for Human Level 7. You need to do that, if only for the sake of my headcanon about Sky Admiral Catherine Rogers---that her mother and halfbrother were imprisoned here but then rescued by the human force?
I'll look into it.

Quote:
Okay, I didn't realize Duval outranked Lothar, since they were both highlords of different knightly orders. Maybe Duval should also come from an influential house of nobles? (Or is a highlord already from a noble house, since we know Lothar was as noble as they come? I don't know.)
Highlord is a title held by the head of a knightly order, which aren't formerly integrated into the military, but are held in very high regards by everyone in the kingdom. Placing a highlord in charge of an army is very common, and as they hold no formal permanent rank, it's not a case of outranking.

Lothar would have been the first choice of leader for the armies, had he not been on a quest. Second choice would have been the highlord of the brotherhood of thorns (who I haven't named yet), but he died defending Stonebrook Keep.

Quote:
Ha. Who says all Monk trainers have to be Pandaren? But what would a "templar" be, in this universe? A monk-priest-paladin combo? In the real world the Templars were named after the Temple of Solomon. What are they named for in this universe? Were they related to some historic crusade, or are they simply defenders of the church's lands? (I know Blizzard doesn't go to such trouble in rationalizing its names, but that doesn't mean we can't!)
Never considered where the name comes from, but I can answer what they are. It's my way of integrating the idea of martial clerical orders with the stuff about paladins only arising later. Basically, templars are warriors that are enhanced by clerics. They are incapable of wielding divine magic themselves, but have had blessings, seals, enchantments, etc. placed on them by the clerics of their orders.

Quote:
Are the orcs capable of climbing fortress walls with ease? I assume you're referring to a capable use of ladders and siege-breaking tactics, instead of physically being able to grab hands and feet into a wall?
I was actually thinking of stronger orcs physically being able to climb walls, thanks to the demonic power flowing through them. Their boots and gloves are built with strong spikes, which their own strength allows them to push these into the wall to provide a grip.

Quote:
When you say two attempts on Blackhand's life, are you referring to Eastervale assassins or internal orcish conspirators?
Eastervale assassins.

Quote:
You're gonna need some explanation here!

The original account had Gul'dan in a trance-like state because he realized Medivh was under attack, and the Tomb of Sargeras's location would be lost forever if Medivh were killed, and so he delved into the Twisting Nether to find Medivh and steal the secret from his mind before he died. But Gul'dan was still searching Medivh's mind when the wizard was killed, and the lack of surge protector sent our boy Gully into his coma.

You don't seem to be going this route; you had a different first contact than Gul'dan and Medivh meeting as projections in the Twisting Nether, and your timeline doesn't kill Medivh until the fall season. In that case, you'll need an alternative explanation for why Gul'dan falls into his coma now.
Good points overall. I'm thinking of bringing back the conversations between Medivh and Gul'dan, because of how instrumental that is in warcraft II. In that case, I'm moving Gul'dan's coma a lot later

Quote:
One more detail to fill in: when was Varian born? Based on his age of ascension, Llane would be 34 years old at his death? So there's definitely time to sire an heir, even if he was very young when the Horde invades.
There's this artwork floating around of Lothar during the evacuation, carrying a baby and dragging along a child. I've always kinda assumed that the older kid was Varian, who looks to be around eight here. So he'd be born around 590.



Quote:
Okay, looking at the dating now... we have a First War with the Portal crossing and first skirmish in 576, the First Battle of Stormwind in 583, and the end of the war in 598. The focal point of the retrotimelines is definitely 583--you have events thrown in for 593 (Lothar's +10 year version) and for 598 (Garona's +15 year version), with the final Horde campaign taking up that single final year so it doesn't drag on. Okay.

When looking to the future... since we'll ignore the Warcraft II retcon about the First War lasting only 5 years (or lasting 5 years after Blackhand becomes warchief, depending on interpretation), it's possible we may or may not ignore the BtDP naming of Year 606 as when the Bleeding Hollow crosses back to Draenor.
I did a very rough timeline in the second post that I'm sticking to, and 606 is still the point in the timeline that the bleeding hollow passes back.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-23-2014, 07:07 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Did you look into Deicide's custom campaign about pre-WC1 events when you designed yours? The info regarding the first Sh. Council agents on Azeroth seemed similar.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:11 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Did you look into Deicide's custom campaign about pre-WC1 events when you designed yours? The info regarding the first Sh. Council agents on Azeroth seemed similar.
I didn't look into the campaign, but it's rather easy to come to the same conclusions from the warcraft I manual.



Anyway, I've been working on updating the timeline according to the commentary from Grackle (see the post for the changes I made). Particularly hard was figuring out the identity of the sixth clan that went into Azeroth. The Frostwolf were considered, as was making the dragonmaw clan older. I actually ended up making the whiteclaw the sixth clan, since they would be purged later on anyway, and it would allow for a good justification on why the frostwolf got to Azeroth and when the Whiteclaw were purged.



And finally, have some Azeroth. All descriptions are pre-first war.

Kingdom of Azeroth
While the Kingdom of Azeroth has technically existed for far longer, the kingdom people know today only really came about as a result of the secession war. The secession war was the bloodiest war in human history, at least before the age of chaos, and the victorious nations of Lordaeron were determined to prevent such a war from ever breaking out again. Azeroth, a kingdom powerful enough to wage a simultaneous war against all the peoples of Lordaeron, had to be weakened.

It was decided that the best way to do this was to shift power away from the king, to prevent the nation from forming a united front in such a large-scale war. Instead, the various lords of the lands would become mostly independent. To retain some semblance of national identity and make decisions that would affect the entire kingdom, the then-mostly ceremonial house of nobles was transformed into a council consisting of the most powerful lords, thirty in total. Originally consisting of the dukes and counts of the kingdom, it was expanded with lords from the clergy, the conjurer towers, the king's court and even representatives from the peasantry.

The Lords of Azeroth
Nobility
The kingdom is split between three duchies, also referred to as provinces. Westwood is the western-most province, consisting mostly of the great plains of Westfall. Elwynn is the central province, consisting of the iconic Elwynn Forest. Redridge is the eastern-most province, consisting of the redridge mountains and a few outposts in the eastern

In turn, each duchy is split into three counties. Westwood is split between Westergarde, the Gold Coast and the Dagger Hills. Elwynn is split between Northwood, the Green Heart and the Rosemoor. Redridge is split between Firefall, Everstill and Lakeridge. All three dukes and nine counts are members of the house of nobles, making the nobles the most influential of the various lords (hence, the name 'house of nobles').

Unlike in Lordaeron, the territories of the nobles technically aren't fiefdoms. They have been granted to the noble on direct authority from the crown, rather than the lord above them. Tenures are still paid to the lord above, but they are determined in contract with the state, making them more akin to a tax. The barons are not accountable to the count or duke, but only to the house of lords itself. As a result, lesser nobles can often hold vastly different political stances from their patron lords. This has led to the foundation of the knightly orders of Azeroth. Knightly orders are dedicated to a single greater ideal, with nobles who subscribe to that ideal offering the order the service of their knights.

There are five main knightly orders. The Brotherhood of the Horse is the largest, and consists of royalists, who seek to grant the crown more power. The Brotherhood of Thorns is second-largest, and holds the opposite opinion, that even more power should go to the house of nobles. After that, the orders become much smaller. The Ashen Blades follow the dualist interpretation of the light, rather than the clerical. They've got a few minor nobles in southern Elwynn. The Knights of the Golden Songbird are a very traditionalist order, who seek to return to the empire of Arathor. They've got some support in both Elwynn and Redridge. The Riders of the West are the smallest order, based from Westwood. They see themselves as crusaders for the peasantry. The knightly orders are not represented on the house of nobles, but the highlord of each order is a widely-respected figure whose words hold great weight in the kingdom. The knightly orders are wildly popular with the citizens, and the various tournaments held between them a popular source of entertainment.

Peasantry
In Azeroth, there is a sharp divide between country folk and city folk.

In most of the nation, the common man is born a serf. This means that his life is bound to that of the noble under which he was born. A serf provides labor directly to his lord, in return for the lord granting him protection, justice, the means to survive and the right to marriage.

This is not true for the larger cities. Here, men are born free, able to determine his own way of life. He can choose his own line of work, his own way of life, paying the government only a small tax. In the cities, mighty trade guilds have arisen, controlling most of the advanced craftsmanship within the kingdom. To mediate between the guilds and represent the city, a magistrate is elected by the populace. The magistrates of Stormwind City, Lakeshire, Moonbrook and Grand Hamlet all have a seat on the house of nobles. Towns other than those four do still have magistrates of their own, and influence of the magistrate of Goldshire in particular shouldn't be underestimated.

The Four Towers
Despite the formation of Dalaran as a free haven for magic users, not all mages of Arathor supported this new nation. Some argued that tight control over magic was a necessity, instead forming the guardians of the flame, an order of mages that answered directly to the high king. They believed in strict self-control and enforcements of limitations of magical knowledge. While they always remained small in number, they had the ear of the king. It is through the advice of the guardians that a ban on necromancy was first enforced within the empire.

When High King Noram first moved the seat of power in the empire to Stormwind, he took with him only the most trusted guardians. Among these was Abrian Montegro, head of the guardians at the time. To King Noram, he posited the following: “My order has always been concerned with the proper control of magic. To not let magic users get so absorbed in their own power that they start endangering or dominating their fellow man, who is incapable of wielding it. But I think we could change that. If I were to channel my powers into a stick and bind it with runes and magical essence, that stick would be capable of imitating my own magic. I could design it to shoot lances of fire, call down shards of ice or drive beasts into madness. For me, it would be useless, since I can already do those things with ease. But if I were to give it to you, it would give you a bit of my magical capabilities. The creation of more of such items would end the monopoly of mages over magic, preventing them from putting themselves over their fellow men.”

Thus was born the first order of conjurers, mages who dedicated themselves to lending their magic to non-casters. While the principles of enchanting and creating magical items were nothing new to the magical community, they were designed for mages, and required existing magic to be used. Conjurers instead specialized in making their magic available to those who lacked any magical knowledge or skill. That's not to say they didn't possess the ability to use magics for themselves though.

Conjurer orders are based from large towers known as mage towers. The first tower was the Wizard's Sanctum, constructed during the rule of High King Noram himself. The conjurers of the Sanctum specialize in the summoning and binding of elemental energies. They would craft blades of purest flame, wands that projected powerful blasts of steam, beams that would reinforce buildings with the strength of the earth, and other such things. These mages even discovered how to make gateways into the elemental realms, from whence they would gather rare materials. This in turn led to the conjurerers learning how to create (rather than summon, which is what other mages do) their own water elementals. These simulacrums would serve as elite guardians of the city of Stormwind, hidden within the many canals and fountains of the city. The manipulation of elemental energies is highly useful in combat, and conjurers from the Wizard's Sanctum often support the armies of Stormwind.

Conjurers from the tower of Azora specialize in scrying magics. This means they create the means to detect, find and spy on people. They have created goggles that allow one to see life, wands that allow you to hear through walls and amulets that enhance the senses. Most famous though are their crystalline balls, rare and expensive items which allow one to observe distant lands from above.

Conjurers from the tower of Mortwake specialize in summoning magics. In their tower, they keep a menagerie of magically created beasts, which can be called to the battlefield through powerful scrolls. Most famed among these are the giant scorpions of westfall, but they are constantly experimenting with new summons. Using the massive quantities of magic flowing through the mage-towers (enough to blow up the place were it not for the grounding rods that run the height of each tower), the conjurers of Mortwake have been able to create small portals, that connect each of the towers with all nearby settlements. These portals are capable of transporting small groups of people instantaneously over dozens of miles.

Conjurers from the tower of Ilgalar specialize in magic drawn from nature, which manifests in a multitude of ways. Most influential is probably their skill in alchemy, with large gardens from throughout the kingdom growing at their tower. It's even said that they used their magical abilities to splice plants together, creating new species with unique properties. Aside from alchemy, the conjurers of Ilgalar also tame any passing storms, capturing gusts of wind in bottles and bolts of lightning in metal rods, to be unleashed against enemies later on. Finally, the conjurers of Ilgalar are also highly knowledgeable when it comes to magic inherent to the dragons of Azeroth. Employing small squadrons of dragon hunters, the conjurers of Ilgalar have a ready supply of dragon body parts, and they are among the few humans who know how to work dragonhide.

Each of the four Lord-Conjurers holds a seat on the house of nobles. To provide for the needs of the conjurers, small villages have arisen around each of the outer towers. The tower of Azora lies in the town of Sunnyglade, the tower of Ilgalar lies in the town of Braewich and the tower of Morganth lies in the town of Turalen. The lord-conjurer of each tower was granted lordship of the surrounding town after the seccession war, to make them more independent. The lord-conjurer of the Wizard's Sanctum is also known as the Court Conjurer, for he serves as an adviser to the king on all matters magical.

Clergy
The dominant religion in Stormwind is the Clerical interpretation of the Light. The clerical interpretation holds that humanity is on a path towards becoming one with the Light. It is believed that, once in a while, a special human emerges that is further down the path than the rest of his race. These humans are called saints. The identity of these saints is a subject of extensive discussion among clergy of Stormwind. At the moment, there are eight saints officially recognized by the church of the holy light. Each of these saints has a clerical order dedicated to them, filled with men and women trying to follow in their footsteps. The abbot of each clerical order holds a seat on the house of nobles and is recognized as a bishop in the church of holy light.

The first saint is Thoradin 'the Unifier'. He was the first high king of the empire of Arathor, which he founded after uniting the various human tribes of Lordaeron by force. The clerics of Thoradin are the wardens of Azeroth, the kingdom born from Arathor. Based from Stormwind City's Grand Cathedral itself, the clerics of Thoradin are decidly more involved with civil matters than the other clerical orders. They are magistrates, maintain a massive library for historical information and place and maintain holy defensive seals on important buildings. However, the most important duty of the clerics of Saint Thoradin is the recognition of saints. It is they determine who is and who isn't a saint. The clerics maintain a massive list of over a thousand people, named 'venerables', who the abbot (or one of his predecessors) recognized as people who might be saints. Daily, debates rage over the canonization of these people. Only by unanimous vote from all clerics in the order can a venerable be declared a saint. Because of the power this order has, the abbot of the grand cathedral is considered the leader of the Clerical orders and holds the rank of 'high abbot'.

The second saint (though she was only recognized as a saint much later on) was Courtney Noel, protector of the children, who lived during the reign of High King Derek III. Under his reign, the kingdom of Azeroth expanded massively, claiming what are now known as the green heart, westergarde and the gold coast. Naturally, the original inhabitants of the lands Derek sought to claim resisted heavily. The gnolls in particular were very well-entrenched in westwood, and battles with their hunting packs were a daily occurrence.
Courtney Noel dedicated her life to aiding the orphans created by these battles. She founded the Grand Orphanage in Stormwind City itself, as well as founding the kingdom's first elementary school, intent on teaching children basic jobs that would usually be taught by parents. These two institutes stand to this very day, maintained by Saint Noel's clerics.

The third saint is Seraph 'the Exalted'. Seraph was the fourth Court Conjurer of Azeroth, and one of the most brilliant mages to have ever been produced by humanity. Seraph's specialty was the study of the nature of reality, and how it was influenced by magic. To this end, she studied not just arcane magic, but also the Light. Seraph's knowledge of the layers of reality became so great that she was said to be capable of looking behind them. Seraph's writings contain the first human descriptions of the twisting nether, the abyssal maw, the firelands, the skywall and deepholm. It is even rumored that, on her death-bed, Seraph was able to peer into the light itself.
The clerics of Saint Seraph are based out of Northshire Abbey. They are students of magic, both arcane and holy, and have dedicated themselves to understanding it. In their abbey, they have collected a massive ever-growing library of magical tomes. Northshire clerics are able to wield both arcane and divine magics, and are even able to blend the two together to a degree.

After that came Saint Dastrin the Hunter, founder of the way. He was born a few hundred years after Courtney Noel, under the reign of high king Orlof. In Dastrin's time, the kingdom of Azeroth had started expanding into Redridge. Dastrin, third son of a low-ranking priest, was among the many hunters that provided food for the new settlers. In his hunt, he spent days in the wilderness, observing the natural world. It was said that Dastrin's eyes could see what no others could. That he had learned to observe the very flow of life from one animal into the next. The ability to sense what others could not made Dastrin a hunter of unmatched ability, and he quickly became a local celebrity.
As he honed his abilities, a change began to come over him. First, it was just a sparkle in his eyes, as if he was carrying stars. His voice grew authorative, yet kind. The arrows he carried started glowing with an unearthly light, and carried the same energy wielded by the priests of the kingdom. One day, he returned from his hunt with eyes glowing as bright as the sun, speaking cryptic rhymes regarding the Light, Thoradin and Seraph, and of a path towards ultimate salvation. His father brought him to the cathedral in stormwind, to show the bishop what had happened.
The bishop of Stormwind declared that Dastrin was observing the light itself. The rest of his days, Dastrin spent in cathedral, his every word written down. It is from the bishop's interpretation of his words that the clerical interpretation of the light arose. Thoradin, Seraph and Dastrin were recognized as the first three saints, and their clerical orders were established.
The clerics of Saint Dastrin are based out of Firewatch Abbey, overlooking first an untamed part of the redridge mountains, later the burning steppes. From their mountain fortress, the clerics of Saint Dastrin oversee vast swaths of wilderness, on which they meditate. To honor the legacy of Dastrin, the clerical order employs a small force of templars that wield light-blessed bows and arrows. The clerics of Saint Dastrin are hermits, still far from civilization, with their templars gathering food in the wilderness. While visitors aren't shunned, they're extremely rare, and it's common for years to pass between any contact between the clerical order and the rest of Azeroth (with the obvious exception of the abbot, who spends most of his time in Stormwind).

Saint Christopher the Devout is a bit of an odd one out among the saints. For one, he's the only saint to not be born in either Arathor or Azeroth. For another, he never really performed any heroic deeds. For yet another, he wasn't even capable of wielding the light. Instead, Christopher was just a simple guardsman from Strahnbrad who spent his entire adult life guarding the walls of that city, before being unceremoniously mauled to death by a yeti at age thirty-three.
However, it is not what Christopher did that made him important. It's what he wrote. As the third son of a clerk, Christopher had learned to read and write at a very young age, and kept several journals in which he wrote down various odd thoughts over the years. As a devout, military man, most of these thoughts were devoted to either religion or warfare, especially regarding proper behavior in either of these fields.
After his death, Christopher's widow collected stories from the various journals, putting them together in a single coherent book entitled "code of honor". In time, copies of this book found their way to Azeroth, where they were embraced by the local knights. In time, they started following the book almost like it was a religious document onto itself. And so it was, almost four hundred years after his death, that Christopher was declared a saint.
The clerics of Saint Christopher the Devout are based from Stonewatch Abbey, which lies in Stonewatch next to the Duke's keep. Christopher's clerics are students of military history and stratagem, having records of almost every battle in human history. Most clerics spend their days traveling with troupes of knights, serving as preachers and confidants. The brotherhood of the horse, the brotherhood of thorns and the riders of the west all employ these clerics.

Saint Rames the Purifier and Saint Andrews the Just were twin brothers, born shortly after the end of the secession wars. In their time, Azeroth was a shell of its former self. Lack of food and money led to riots. The appointment of a new king by foreign powers led to rebellions. Loss of so many soldiers led to bandit gangs having free reign. And all that stuff led to a loss of faith, and the rise of dark cults throughout the land.
Needless to say, it was not a good time to be growing up. Moonshire, where Rames and Andrews grew up, was initially spared much of the malaise. Surrounded by farmland, and with fish coming in from the gold coast, there was always enough food for everyone. Rames and Andrews grew up strong and proud children, ready to do their duty to king and country.
When they were fourteen, the brothers joined the city guard. Bandits had become a large nuisance, raiding food caravans that were travelling east. Rames and Andrews spent years fighting the bandits, but the problems only grew. It wasn't until they were twenty-one that the true extent of the problems in the kingdom became apparent. The entirety of the Rosemoor had been lost to a massive rebellion, led by the dark priest Ruberick. With his powers of void, he had summoned a legion of shadowfiends to force the population into servitude. And slowly, he expanded his grasp, the kingdom of Azeroth too weak to stop him. What the people of Moonbrook thought to be a growing bandit problem was actually organized raiding from a hostile new nation, of which the borders grew closer and closer.
Realizing that their kingdom was in danger, Rames and Andrews travelled east, intent to stop the reign of the Shadow King at its very heart. They knew that there was some sort of resistance in the rosemoor, led by the remnants of the knights of the ashen blade. Before they could find the knights however, the shadow king found them, and the brothers were struck down by a shadowfiend.
When they awoke, they found themselves in an old dualist church, still heavily wounded from their encounter with the fiend. Apparently, the knights had found the brothers during one of their raids on the dark temples, and saved the twins from the sacrificial altar. However, their injuries were too severe to be of much use in battle. Still wanting to help out, the two brothers decided to study under the priests, learning to aid the refugees and knights.
In the years that followed, Rames and Andrews grew into two powerful priests. While they only kept to the hidden church at first, they took the battlefield when their own injuries were mended over time. While other priests kept to supporting roles, Rames and Andrews formed a powerful two-man team, dedicated to slaying dark forces. Andrews was a master of defensive abilities, summoning shields, wards and auras to protect his brother and defend fleeing citizens. Rames was a master of offensive abilities, acting as a beacon of light powerful enough to overwhelm any dark force, whether it be fiend or priest.
When the armies of Azeroth and the ashen blade resistance finally started their march against Ruberick's citadel, it was Rames and Andrews that led the charge. Together, they stood against the shadow king, destroying the creatures he summoned from beyond the veil, and finally, the king himself. For the rest of their days, the two were hailed as heroes of the Light, and they were sainted immediately after their deaths.
Both brothers have their abbeys near Moonbrook. Nightvale Abbey, dedicated to Saint Andrews the Just, is located south of the city. Andrews' clerics and templars are dedicated to the protection of the people. They are commonly found in small teams throughout the land, defending civilians from monsters and bandit raids. The Abbey of Sacred Flames, dedicated to Saint Rames the Purifier, is located north of the city. Rames' clerics and templars are destroyers of darkness. Like Andrews' clerics, they are found throughout the lands of Azeroth. However, their duty is to seek and slay any person who would wield the dark arts.

Saint Marilyn of the Sacred Vows joined the clerics of Saint Dastrin at a very young age. However, she never really fit into the order. Whereas the other clerics of Dastrin looked out towards the wilderness to find their path, Marilyn preferred to look inwards, at her own mind and body. Despite her methods differing vastly from the rest of her order, she wasn't their lesser in her command of the Light in any way. The abbot and her discussed her future in the order during one of his visits to the abbey and they agreed she wasn't at home in the order. It wasn't a particularly rare occurence for someone to leave the order. Those who left the order were gifted with a set of armor and weapons, and usually set off to travel the lands of Azeroth as preachers, spreading the glory of the light among the populace.
Marilyn went the other way, walking into the burning steppes. With her, she took nothing. She left behind the food for her journey, the armor and weapon she had been gifted, even the clothes on her back. The templars who saw her enter the steppes thought she had gone mad, and when she wasn't seen again, it was assumed she died. But she didn't. Dwelling in the most dangerous part of Azeroth, her body became a living weapon, and her mind a well of Light. After twelve years in the steppes, she returned to the abbey. Her body was a tapestry of scars, her feet blackened by ash, but overall, she was alive and in good health. She and the abbot travelled to Stormwind City, where she demonstrated the abilities she developed before the king and the house of nobles. She jumped accross buildings, climbed sheer walls, bested armed men in combat using nothing but her bare fists and even walked through fire unharmed.
Marilyn is the only saint to have been recognized while still alive, serving as the first abbot of Eastervale. Here, she taught the clerics and templars the insight she had developed in the steppes. The clerics learned her mental skills, allowing them to draw upon the Light to overcome any hardship. The templars learned her physical skills, to rely solely on the capabilities of their own body. They fight bare-handed and without armor, relying on pure strength, agility and blessings placed upon them by the clerics instead.

The King's Court
By tradition, three of the members of the house of nobles are representatives from the king's court. We've already met the court conjurer, who advises the king on magical matters. There is also the High Commander of the Stormwind defense, who is the king's adviser in all military matters.

Finally, there is the head of royal intelligence. Officially, he serves as the administrator of the royal archives. However, it's a publicly known secret that the royal intelligence agency also engages in some more questionable, underground activities. Most assume it's just a few strategically planted spies, but there's always rumors of darker activities. Brainwashing criminals into becoming assassins, funding dark cults hidden in the catacombs of stormwind city and being controlled by a secret cabal of dragons are but the most popular of these rumors.

Design Notes
Woo, Azeroth. One of the main ideas that I had here actually came from one of Stormwind's themes in World of Warcraft, albeit an unacknowledged and probably accidental one. Throughout Stormwind, you find the statues of old heroes of the alliance, whether it be champions of the second war, or those presumed lost in the destruction of Draenor.

So, I got the idea to make Stormwind the land of fallen heroes. It was actually toned back a lot from my early ideas, and is now mostly limited mostly to the clerical orders. I still hold the idea that Azora, Mortwake and Ilgalar were magic-wielding heroes of old though.
__________________
This is not a signature.

Last edited by ijffdrie; 01-25-2014 at 01:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:40 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

1) Why are you treating "Lothar" as a surname? It's a middle name! One that he's referenced by more than his first one!

2) My personal headcanon for the Azeroth-->Stormwind transition was that Terenas consciously lowered the status of the kingdom when it was resurrected: from a High Kingdom with claims over the whole continent to a smaller area around the city of New Stormwind.

3) Why's the Grand Hamlet (Darkshire) the capital of Elwynn Duchy?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:53 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
1) Why are you treating "Lothar" as a surname? It's a middle name! One that he's referenced by more than his first one!
Since when is it a middle name? I was under the impression that Anduin Lothar was the full name. Anduin first name, Lothar family name.

Quote:
2) My personal headcanon for the Azeroth-->Stormwind transition was that Terenas consciously lowered the status of the kingdom when it was resurrected: from a High Kingdom with claims over the whole continent to a smaller area around the city of New Stormwind.
I have a similar idea. Of course, not everyone in Stormzeroth is going to be so happy with that.

Quote:
3) Why's the Grand Hamlet (Darkshire) the capital of Elwynn Duchy?
Duskwood only formed as a result of corruption from invading orcs and the dark portal. The duchy of Elwynn consists of most of what in-game would be Elwynn Forest and Duskwood.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:00 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Since when is it a middle name? I was under the impression that Anduin Lothar was the full name. Anduin first name, Lothar family name.
Anduin Lothar of the House of Arathi

A surname would sound more like "Lotharinger" or something. "Lothar" as the last name would be like Ivan, John, or James as the last name. Which is stupid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Duskwood only formed as a result of corruption from invading orcs and the dark portal. The duchy of Elwynn consists of most of what in-game would be Elwynn Forest and Duskwood.
Yes, but isn't there a whole river and another zone inbetween them?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:12 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Anduin Lothar of the House of Arathi
Wasn't Arathi the name of the original tribe, rather than Thoradin's personal family name?

Quote:
A surname would sound more like "Lotharinger" or something. "Lothar" as the last name would be like Ivan, John, or James as the last name. Which is stupid!
None of those is exactly rare as a last name. James (surname) even has a wikipedia article. So does John (surname), but it's a lot smaller.

Quote:
Yes, but isn't there a whole river and another zone inbetween them?
There's a river, but not another zone.

The duchies are a lot bigger than the in-game zones. Westwood is westfall, plus Balor and the hills south of westfall that are impassible in WoW. Elwynn is Elwynn Forest plus Duskwood. Redridge is redridge mountains, Deadwind Pass, small outposts in the black morass/swamp of sorrows and a lot of impassible stuff in the mountains.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:19 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Wasn't Arathi the name of the original tribe, rather than Thoradin's personal family name?
Why not both? It's exactly the way of how the first noble family names came to us. I'd expect Greymanes and Trollbanes to have similar stories.

Otherwise the whole "Last of the Arathi" thing makes little sense, 'cause there'd be a lot of people with the blood of the original (biggest?) human tribe - more than half of Stromgarde's probably has it! The last surviving member of the Arathi Dynasty of the original kingdom, on the other hand, is a different story (as we've got to Lotharingia, a good parallel would be the Karolings, who have divided into many lil' dynasties (and half the modern Europe has their blood), but the main line died out)



YES THEY ARE AND YOU JUST SHOWED IT. Especially "Ivan", lol.


Quote:
The duchies are a lot bigger than the in-game zones. Westwood is westfall, plus Balor and the hills south of westfall that are impassible in WoW. Elwynn is Elwynn Forest plus Duskwood. Redridge is redridge mountains, Deadwind Pass, small outposts in the black morass/swamp of sorrows and a lot of impassible stuff in the mountains.
Hmmm. Personally, I'd do it the other way - MORE duchies in one region.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-23-2014, 01:10 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Why not both? It's exactly the way of how the first noble family names came to us. I'd expect Greymanes and Trollbanes to have similar stories.

Otherwise the whole "Last of the Arathi" thing makes little sense, 'cause there'd be a lot of people with the blood of the original (biggest?) human tribe - more than half of Stromgarde's probably has it! The last surviving member of the Arathi Dynasty of the original kingdom, on the other hand, is a different story (as we've got to Lotharingia, a good parallel would be the Karolings, who have divided into many lil' dynasties (and half the modern Europe has their blood), but the main line died out)
But... all the names I picked sound silly when you replace Lothar with Arathi. Derek Arathi, anyone?

Honestly, I always figured that last names were a later invention. Thoradin himself never gets mentioned with one.

Quote:
YES THEY ARE AND YOU JUST SHOWED IT. Especially "Ivan", lol.
James is in the top 100 common last names for the US.

Quote:
Hmmm. Personally, I'd do it the other way - MORE duchies in one region.
It was possible, but ties into a problem with Stormwind. Despite warcraft II setting it up as the most powerful of human kingdoms, the original Warcraft was not made with that in mind. Azeroth was not designed as a large kingdom. It had only one city, with other places made to seem like they were small towns at best (and there were only, like five. Six if you count Balor). There is no suggestion of any significant populations outside the mentioned towns either. The player of Warcraft I really doesn't face a lot of resistance lorewise. It's only in the last two missions that you start facing significant forces. The complaint that Stormwind feels more like a frontier kingdom in WoW than the mighty kingdom it was portrayed as in Warcraft II is a valid one, but WoW is actually being fairly faithful to the original depiction of it.

So, I had two choices with nobles. The first was to do more realistic noble territories, but that would call to question where the hell these guys were during the first war. I wanted to actually keep the missions of the first game as the most significant events during Doomhammer's assault. I could squeeze a little more size out of the kingdom by adding a second off-screen assault led by Blackhand that dealt with stuff seen in WoW, but any more than that would be a serious stretch.

The other choice was to keep the missions of Warcraft I as the actual most important stuff in the war, and blow them up in importance enough to have some stuff of lesser importance added, so this could actually make sense as the biggest kingdom while being faithful to Warcraft I.

It's why Lordaeron was given a larger number of duchies, of a more realistic size. The result is a bit of a weirdity where a duke of Lordaeron and a Count of Azeroth would have about an equal amount of territory under their control. Then again, I think it does help the setting a bit to have more of such cultural disconnects between kingdoms. Especially Lordaeron and Stormwind, which are shown with pretty much the exact same culture, which was something I wanted to avoid.

Which reminds me; any commentary on the concepts for conjurers and clerics?
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-24-2014, 06:07 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
But... all the names I picked sound silly when you replace Lothar with Arathi. Derek Arathi, anyone?

Honestly, I always figured that last names were a later invention. Thoradin himself never gets mentioned with one.
And Thoradin probably wouldn't have one. They'll get them at the time when the lines of tribal aristocracy will turn into patriciat, whose importance in the society depends on the noble lines of their forefathers (remember Roman patricians, who had to go around with busts of their ancestors to show off their long lineage?).

I wouldn't think about bad sounding of the first/last names much (Ladislav Habsburg, anyone?). More often than not people continued to refer to each other by first names, while bringing up surnames only on formal occasions like: "The king is dead. All hail His Grace, Derek of the House Arathi, First of His Name, High King of Arathor and King of Azeroth, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
It's why Lordaeron was given a larger number of duchies, of a more realistic size. The result is a bit of a weirdity where a duke of Lordaeron and a Count of Azeroth would have about an equal amount of territory under their control. Then again, I think it does help the setting a bit to have more of such cultural disconnects between kingdoms. Especially Lordaeron and Stormwind, which are shown with pretty much the exact same culture, which was something I wanted to avoid.
I am not sure I agree, given that territorially Stormwind ends up almost as big (if not bigger) than Lordaeron, it's just that there's not that much big towns around those regions. It's pretty scarce, which gives the feel of a colonized land (Stormwind = America parallels, anybody?)
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:49 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
And Thoradin probably wouldn't have one. They'll get them at the time when the lines of tribal aristocracy will turn into patriciat, whose importance in the society depends on the noble lines of their forefathers (remember Roman patricians, who had to go around with busts of their ancestors to show off their long lineage?).

I wouldn't think about bad sounding of the first/last names much (Ladislav Habsburg, anyone?). More often than not people continued to refer to each other by first names, while bringing up surnames only on formal occasions like: "The king is dead. All hail His Grace, Derek of the House Arathi, First of His Name, High King of Arathor and King of Azeroth, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm."
Honestly, you do make some good points. I'll definitely do some more reading into last name protocols.

This whole discussion reminds me a bit of the Wrynns. Back in warcraft I, Wrynn was the first name of a past king, but it was changed to the family name later on in BtDP when Varien Wrynn was introduced.

Quote:
I am not sure I agree, given that territorially Stormwind ends up almost as big (if not bigger) than Lordaeron, it's just that there's not that much big towns around those regions. It's pretty scarce, which gives the feel of a colonized land (Stormwind = America parallels, anybody?)
Not entirely clear on which part of the post you disagree with.

Stormwind and Lordaeron have very roughly an equal amount of territory. Stormwind is divided between three duchies, divided into three counties each. Lordaeron is divided into nine duchies, which developed from the old city-states (Capital City, Tirisfal, Andorhal, Caer Darrow, Tyr's Hand, Hearthglen, Stratholme, Fenris, Southshore)
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-25-2014, 01:48 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Well, I was unable to find a loophole for keeping Lothar as a family name, and all posts have been edited accordingly. Thank you Kir for pointing out the error.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:59 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,151

Default

As I've said before I ended up reading this in a serendipitous chain of events, and first off let me tell you it is great. Like really good, I enjoyed it much, much more than I've enjoyed actual canon in a long time.

Keep that in mind as you read on since I am very exhausting when doing reviews, which may come off as nitpicking when it really isn't. But a heartfelt desire to help the writer improve.

So, I'll go through the notes I made as I was reading and address them point by point. This was written before New Year so forgive me if some of these issues were already discussed.

-Given that you are writing this in a very concise form, as a sort of game manual, I think it is too much to write how various nations call particular wars or use different calendars. It is just not front page news, it should be left from some obscure script made for this hypothetical game

-Hygiene as a reform from Arathor seems too much too soon. Just look at medieval cities, they were full of filth. And this is thousands of years into human history on Earth. Arathor has already given them such an amazing leap with horse riding, metallurgy, mining, ect that it is already bordering on the fanboyish (for a lack of a better term).
Another related issue is that Feudalism came far too soon here. It is a simple way of governance but it does require a certain degree of civil consciousness, understanding your place and your obligations in life. Thoradin's subjects are literal savages, it would simply take time for them to be "house broken" into accepting feudalism or any kind of order. Slavery seems much more sensible coming from Tribalism, just amend the nobles into a patrician like caste, the commoners into free citizens (the demos) and the sefs are already slave-like in your narrative. They can then grow into Feudalism in a few hundred years, if early Feudalism is important to your narrative.

-I've detected some retcons that hinge upon canon details so minor that they might have been missed by you, but then again maybe they were intentional. Either way, can't hurt to list them. First, Lordaeron was the second founded nation (after Dalaran) not last, source WCIII manual IIRC. Second, Dalaran also existed before the mages, it was a small non-mage settlement that was promised protection and power if they would let the mages live there. These people were a huge factor even later, Kirin Tor feared a deadly revolt by non-mages (the implication was that they can kick them out) were news of demons to spread. This is why the Guardian was created, the source is the Legends comic probably. Lastly the lore on goblins is that they were supremely smart at first due to exposure to Kajamite but then got dumber, their inventions began failing only after this event, before that it was a goblin golden age. It was the smarts that let them overthrow troll slavers, in your story they are first dumb with bad tech then smart with better tech, but this might have been RPG lore so.

-Personal preference: Slow expansion into troll lands. I am not arguing that your way is bad, just that I personally would make it take more time to tame the eastern frontier of what will become Lordaeron. I mean the trolls ruled and lived there for thousands of years, it would take time driving off all those people, taking out all those cities... it is just an entire civilization to take out with a bunch of frontier settlers. Strom might have beat them, but it is a whole different ballgame to dominate them so fully without overextending.

-Personal preference: At least one state from Lordaeron should side with Antonius. It would make things more realistic and intense. I'd nominate Stromgarde as it is said in your narrative to be very loyal, and just consider the history between them and the Arathor bloodline.
Also about Stromgarde, maybe have it be heavily damaged in the Horde invasion. As is your version of the Second War is very ToD (book) like and that is quite underwhelming.

-Right so after so much criticism, time for some praise. I really love what you did with Alterac. It felt the best and "tightest" Kingdom in terms of storytelling. I like realism in my storytelling (INB4 the obligatory "but it's a fantasy universe" comment), often less is more and having most of the setting be grounded and down to earth makes the amazing things stand out more. Like imagine a story that is all about realistic medieval countries, and then comes in this dude with dragons, it is double amazing because we just watched people backstab each other and/or throw big rocks at one another for a long time before the amazing event. Honestly after Strom things kinda got away from you, and Kul Tiras and especially Gilneas are very fanboyish and unlikely.
That is why I voted Arathi as best nation, Gilneas as worst nation... only to find out that as a compliment to you no one but me voted a negative option. I still feel like an asshole over that since in general everything is awesome and above Blizz quality

-I also really liked you dusting off the Eye of Dalaran to use as an explanation for the instant Theramore of WCIII (like Org is still in early construction yet Theramore has statues, manicured lawns, parks... ).


I still have more notes to go through (to cover the other nations and the Horde) after that I will have to make notes for the tauren tribes I read and the tauren tribes I have not. This might take a long, long time But let this post be a testament that I will do it one day
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-01-2014, 03:07 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
As I've said before I ended up reading this in a serendipitous chain of events, and first off let me tell you it is great. Like really good, I enjoyed it much, much more than I've enjoyed actual canon in a long time.

Keep that in mind as you read on since I am very exhausting when doing reviews, which may come off as nitpicking when it really isn't. But a heartfelt desire to help the writer improve.

So, I'll go through the notes I made as I was reading and address them point by point. This was written before New Year so forgive me if some of these issues were already discussed.
I very much thank you kindly for whatever commentary you give, whether positive or negative.

Quote:
-Given that you are writing this in a very concise form, as a sort of game manual, I think it is too much to write how various nations call particular wars or use different calendars. It is just not front page news, it should be left from some obscure script made for this hypothetical game
Yeah, I agree >.>. I've been feeling iffy about that ever since I added it.

Quote:
-Hygiene as a reform from Arathor seems too much too soon. Just look at medieval cities, they were full of filth. And this is thousands of years into human history on Earth. Arathor has already given them such an amazing leap with horse riding, metallurgy, mining, ect that it is already bordering on the fanboyish (for a lack of a better term).
Fair enough. I was envisioning Arathor as more of a roman empire early on, but threw that out when I was thinking up a culture for the Sehanchi. It's a bit of a remnant in that regard.

Also, small spoiler for idea that hasn't fully formed yet. I actually do already have a basic plan in my head for future content, including the return to Lordaeron. There is actually a reason that I'm making the arathi slightly over the top in their cultural advancement. One idea that's been rolling around my head is that Thoradin was an ally of the mountain giants, having helped them imprison Myzrael, and that he was given knowledge by the giants in return.

I'm still not entirely sure whether or not this is a good idea.


Though, whether or not I stick to that idea, there is another aspect I should clarify: This is when the arathi first developed those concepts, not humans as a whole. I'm actually envisioning there to have been several slightly stronger tribes back in those days, with their own cultures. The harvest witches would have been part of the culture of one of these tribes, and I've got a few other ideas (the horse lords of Hillsbrad) rolling around my head.

Quote:
Another related issue is that Feudalism came far too soon here. It is a simple way of governance but it does require a certain degree of civil consciousness, understanding your place and your obligations in life. Thoradin's subjects are literal savages, it would simply take time for them to be "house broken" into accepting feudalism or any kind of order. Slavery seems much more sensible coming from Tribalism, just amend the nobles into a patrician like caste, the commoners into free citizens (the demos) and the sefs are already slave-like in your narrative. They can then grow into Feudalism in a few hundred years, if early Feudalism is important to your narrative.
You're probably right about the serfs just needing to be slaves.

As for nobles; as I said at the last quote, I do intend for there to have been some degree of human culture before the arathi empire. Caste-based societies aren't an entirely new idea.

Quote:
-I've detected some retcons that hinge upon canon details so minor that they might have been missed by you, but then again maybe they were intentional. Either way, can't hurt to list them. First, Lordaeron was the second founded nation (after Dalaran) not last, source WCIII manual IIRC.
Well damn, I completely missed that. I'm going to take a close look, but I think it would mess up the narrative too much to have Lordaeron founded earlier. I guess I could change Lordaeron to an early city-state of lesser importance (with a less pretentious name. Lordamere?) that gets a boost in importance when the other nobles move there.

Quote:
Second, Dalaran also existed before the mages, it was a small non-mage settlement that was promised protection and power if they would let the mages live there. These people were a huge factor even later, Kirin Tor feared a deadly revolt by non-mages (the implication was that they can kick them out) were news of demons to spread. This is why the Guardian was created, the source is the Legends comic probably.
I was aware that there were non-mages in the city (I actually mention them in the text), but I'm not sure it was ever clarified who was in the region first. I can't find it in the legends manga.

Quote:
Lastly the lore on goblins is that they were supremely smart at first due to exposure to Kajamite but then got dumber, their inventions began failing only after this event, before that it was a goblin golden age. It was the smarts that let them overthrow troll slavers, in your story they are first dumb with bad tech then smart with better tech, but this might have been RPG lore so.
That's RPG lore that was partially canonized by Cataclysm. The version here is consistent with the stuff shown in Cataclysm (though, I'm not actually sticking that closely to stuff introduced after warcraft III. I'm using it as inspiration, but not as definite canon. But, I guess you'll see that when you get to Azeroth)

Quote:
-Personal preference: Slow expansion into troll lands. I am not arguing that your way is bad, just that I personally would make it take more time to tame the eastern frontier of what will become Lordaeron. I mean the trolls ruled and lived there for thousands of years, it would take time driving off all those people, taking out all those cities... it is just an entire civilization to take out with a bunch of frontier settlers. Strom might have beat them, but it is a whole different ballgame to dominate them so fully without overextending.
Honestly, that's pretty much what I envision, and I'm not quite sure where I implied an easy time. The trolls stay divided tribes after this point (a few occasionally band together, but never all at once), so they aren't a threat to the entirety of the empire. However, they're well-settled, and beating them back requires effort. It's the reason why settling all of Lordaeron took thousands of years.

Quote:
-Personal preference: At least one state from Lordaeron should side with Antonius. It would make things more realistic and intense. I'd nominate Stromgarde as it is said in your narrative to be very loyal, and just consider the history between them and the Arathor bloodline.
I hear you, but I don't think it quite works with Stromgarde. If they sided with Antonius, it'd make little sense for them to remain not just independent, but be allowed control of Tol Barad.

Maybe Tirisfal or Tyr's hand could work.

Quote:
Also about Stromgarde, maybe have it be heavily damaged in the Horde invasion. As is your version of the Second War is very ToD (book) like and that is quite underwhelming.
I'm going to do an overview of the second war soon (after I finally finish with the last three of the tauren tribes), and I'm already assuring you it's not going to follow the book. In the specific case of Stromgarde though, I'm not going to have it too damaged in the second war, so it can stand more damage in the war against the scourge later on.

Quote:
-Right so after so much criticism, time for some praise. I really love what you did with Alterac. It felt the best and "tightest" Kingdom in terms of storytelling. I like realism in my storytelling (INB4 the obligatory "but it's a fantasy universe" comment), often less is more and having most of the setting be grounded and down to earth makes the amazing things stand out more. Like imagine a story that is all about realistic medieval countries, and then comes in this dude with dragons, it is double amazing because we just watched people backstab each other and/or throw big rocks at one another for a long time before the amazing event.
Thank you kindly. It's not quite my intent in that regard though. I'm a very big believer in contrast within a universe, especially so in the case of warcraft. I like factions with a more realistic feel to them, definitely, but I also like to contrast them against the more idealistic guys next door. Provide a little something for everyone, while trying to keep the universe consistent, that's my goal.

Quote:
Honestly after Strom things kinda got away from you, and Kul Tiras and especially Gilneas are very fanboyish and unlikely.
Could you tell me which parts in particular you didn't like about those nations? Was it the founding, specific cultural aspects, all of it? I'm not promising a change, but I am wondering which specific parts don't work in your opinion.

Quote:
That is why I voted Arathi as best nation, Gilneas as worst nation... only to find out that as a compliment to you no one but me voted a negative option. I still feel like an asshole over that since in general everything is awesome and above Blizz quality
Honestly, I'm glad. I added a 'worst' list for a reason.

Quote:
-I also really liked you dusting off the Eye of Dalaran to use as an explanation for the instant Theramore of WCIII (like Org is still in early construction yet Theramore has statues, manicured lawns, parks... ).
Thanks, I feel way too proud of myself for thinking of that

Quote:
I still have more notes to go through (to cover the other nations and the Horde) after that I will have to make notes for the tauren tribes I read and the tauren tribes I have not. This might take a long, long time But let this post be a testament that I will do it one day
And I look forward to it thoroughly!
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-02-2014, 02:56 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

I really like your lore for Conjurers, but I'm interested whether you'd try to re-explain the Dalaran-themed Magic District of New Stormwind in a different way?

The enchanted spires of Dalaran were built by the mages, but on the "who was there first" there are conflicting accounts (I think TLG says the mages offered protection to the non-magic civilians, but the in-game History of Warcraft simply explains Dalaran as created by the mages).

The name is elvish-sounding, so I think either the mages maked it with Thalassian in mind, or there was an old elven settlement, the name of which survived among the locals up until the Troll Wars era.

EDIT: Actually, I messed it up. In-game History of Warcraft says that the mages built enchanted spires and were tolerated by the non-magic guys (who got protection from the Magocrats). The Legends that C9 cited actually state that the mages FOUNDED the city:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends Vol.5, "The First Guardian" - Dalaran: A Brief History
"Almost 3,000 years ago, a group of human magi, feeling fettered by strict laws governing magic in Strom, journeyed north to Lordaeron. On the southern shore of Lordamere Lake, these magi founded the city-state of Dalaran, where they hoped to practice their craft with less restraint.

Last edited by Kir the Wizard; 02-02-2014 at 03:38 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-02-2014, 06:33 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
I really like your lore for Conjurers, but I'm interested whether you'd try to re-explain the Dalaran-themed Magic District of New Stormwind in a different way?
Honestly, I'm really not planning to sticking to the WoW geography of Stormwind. Not sure if the mage district will survive, but if it does...:

The conjurers exchanged some tricks with the archmages of Dalaran while up north. Parts of the city were rebuilt using the same magic originally used in the construction of Dalaran.

Quote:
The name is elvish-sounding, so I think either the mages maked it with Thalassian in mind, or there was an old elven settlement, the name of which survived among the locals up until the Troll Wars era.
The name doesn't really sound out of place alongside stuff like Strom, Arathor, Tirisfal and Gilneas to me.

Incidentally, while the name doesn't stem from elvish, I do think the elves settled Dalaran before. During their original attempt to colonize Lordaeron, they would have claimed the ley line intersections they could find (which would include Dalaran, Caer Darrow and the heart of their civilization, Tirisfal). These were abandoned after the construction of the sunwell, as that allowed the elves to build densely clustered runestones that blanketed the entirety of Quel'thalas.

Isolated runestones are neat for hiding magecraft, but they don't work quite as well for magics that seep into the very environment, connecting every tree, every rock to the flow of magic. Which, incidentally, explains why the elves never really expanded their grasp beyond Quel'thalas.

Quote:
EDIT: Actually, I messed it up. In-game History of Warcraft says that the mages built enchanted spires and were tolerated by the non-magic guys (who got protection from the Magocrats). The Legends that C9 cited actually state that the mages FOUNDED the city:
Hrm, if there's conflict, I think I'll stick to the mages being the core of the initial founders. Thanks for looking it up though.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-02-2014, 07:32 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Quote:
The name doesn't really sound out of place alongside stuff like Strom, Arathor, Tirisfal and Gilneas to me.
The elven word "dal" and the elven word "aran" didn't tick you off?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-02-2014, 07:36 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

Eternal Watcher
Yaskaleh's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The heart of Scania
Posts: 18,625
BattleTag: Yaskaleh#1817

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
The elven word "dal" and the elven word "aran" didn't tick you off?
That's my headcanon, that Dalaran was either named by an elf or it was built on an elven ruin.
__________________

Say no to genocide!
Save the Nightborne!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-02-2014, 07:45 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
The elven word "dal" and the elven word "aran" didn't tick you off?
Not particularly, as Dalar and Aran are also human names.
__________________
This is not a signature.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-02-2014, 08:31 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

The Sun King
Kir the Wizard's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
That's my headcanon, that Dalaran was either named by an elf or it was built on an elven ruin.
Yeah. Or perhaps the elf-fanboys among the new mages wanted everything around it to be elfy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Not particularly, as Dalar and Aran are also human names.
Both of which are held by people of magician (AKA elven-influenced) culture.

(And at that I'd argue that Dalar Dawnweaver could have easily been an elven, or at least half-elven archmage)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fanwank, sun god says

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.