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Old 12-23-2013, 12:51 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Default Make a forsaken Calia

Based on this post by Krakhed:

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
So, if she were to be used, [Calia] being Forsaken might make the most sense. Her not revealing herself would be more because she hasn't previously particularly wanted to call attention to herself or cause a disruption in the Forsaken hierarchy. She would have had to be more or less okay with how things were going, at least for the time being.

Since Forsaken often change their names anyways, it would probably have been rather easy for her just to make up any random name she needed and just never tell anyone her true identity. No questions asked.

But even in that case, it would take almost as much effort to build her up as it would be to create a whole new character. That's essentially what it would be. But the player perception would be somewhat different, and the idea that she was the rightful ruler would be there.

It could be worked with. Hell, maybe even when designing the character she wouldn't even reveal her true name until the appropriately dramatic moment. And then we can all have fun and bitch on the forums about what a stupid twist that was.
So, based on that idea, which forsaken would be interesting to be revealed as Calia all along? Or should it be some new character? The brain of an abomination?

If your answer is 'she shouldn't be a foraken', I'm making another thread for that.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:55 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Based on this post by Krakhed:



So, based on that idea, which forsaken would be interesting to be revealed as Calia all along? Or should it be some new character? The brain of an abomination?

If your answer is 'she shouldn't be a foraken', I'm making another thread for that.
Dumass.

But seriously, I doubt any particular existing Forsaken character would work.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Old 12-23-2013, 01:00 PM
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You can be as unreasonable as Fojar.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:04 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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You can be as unreasonable as Fojar.
No, YOU can be as unreasonable as Fojar.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:05 PM
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I support this view. It would give something to the Forsaken narrative that is not Sylvanas, and bring some truth to the Forsaken's claim to Lordaeron, hopefully bringing some progression to the rage-filled plot of Lordaeron's legacy. Her being dead justifies her continued inaction more than most characters, and I think that Golden said she was dead... until the Ultimate Visual Guide went back on that... I think.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:07 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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If they're going for a Forsaken Calia, it would be nice if she herself pulled a Lindsay Ravensun. In the event that Sylvanas goes rogue, Calia under another persona accompanies the player doing stuff before actually revealing herself.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:10 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Yeah because clearly we need more power tripping, angsty female characters rocking the boat.

If she needs to be undead then make her a death knight.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
If they're going for a Forsaken Calia, it would be nice if she herself pulled a Lindsay Ravensun. In the event that Sylvanas goes rogue, Calia under another persona accompanies the player doing stuff before actually revealing herself.
The best way to like a lore character is for them to do things before being shilled. Have Calia earn our loyalty.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

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Old 12-23-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
So, based on that idea, which forsaken would be interesting to be revealed as Calia all along? Or should it be some new character? The brain of an abomination?
The Black Bride, leader of the Defilers.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I support this view. It would give something to the Forsaken narrative that is not Sylvanas, and bring some truth to the Forsaken's claim to Lordaeron, hopefully bringing some progression to the rage-filled plot of Lordaeron's legacy. Her being dead justifies her continued inaction more than most characters, and I think that Golden said she was dead... until the Ultimate Visual Guide went back on that... I think.
You could do that with any non-Calia Forsaken developed for the job though.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
The Black Bride, leader of the Defilers.
A battlemaster is not faction leader. While a cool name, she is not that cool...

Edit: Wowpedia says that the faction leaders are the battlemasters that were added in front of the inactive portals. I do not think that is true.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 12-23-2013 at 01:33 PM..
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:26 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
If they're going for a Forsaken Calia, it would be nice if she herself pulled a Lindsay Ravensun. In the event that Sylvanas goes rogue, Calia under another persona accompanies the player doing stuff before actually revealing herself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
The best way to like a lore character is for them to do things before being shilled. Have Calia earn our loyalty.
Yep. Going to have to agree with these ideas here. This is one of the ideas I posted in the original thread.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Calia's just such an unknown I feel a new character would be MUCH better option than saying "oh after she disappeared she became a badass forsaken and now takes the reigns"
I suppose. But any character is going to need build up, and she doesn't need to initially seem all that badass at all. I would almost prefer it if she's revealed as not having been a huge badass that we were never told about during her time as one of the Forsaken.

I would prefer if she initially had a more humble position than that. Something which would help keep her in touch with the situation amongst the common Forsaken and allow her to get to know them.

Perhaps as a relatively obscure, but quite talented Priestess who has generally just been helping out Forsaken in need and helping them through whatever trauma and confusion is associated with undeath. Maybe out of some sense of duty or something.

Make her truly believe in the Forsaken, and maybe have gradually come to the conclusion that Sylvanas doesn't have the best interests of the Forsaken in mind and has been leading them astray while breaking their laws with Kol'tira. Then maybe quietly watch and prepare things just in case Sylvanas needs to be deposed for the good of the Forsaken, gathering support from her closest associates and parishioners and quietly spreading her influence during some point in her story. Perhaps even having collected Frostmourne's shards to build something useful.

EDIT: Only sometime after that, where we would be in a more present moment, would she maybe start actually doing badass things that could catch the player's eye. Maybe quest alongside her a bit as well.

That would be nice. But I'll try to shoehorn attention to and expansion upon the Cult of Forgotten Shadow into anything.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:34 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
You can be as unreasonable as Fojar.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how are you more reasonable or open then him for suggesting the opposite? Personnally, I would go with 10 since your idea is only good for the Horde, but maybe you'd like to reconsider.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:35 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I still have trouble picturing Calia doing any of those things.

She wasn't a priestess when she was alive, I don't understand why she'd develop those skills afterwards (She doesn't have the personality for shadow and I have a hard time imagining her hurting herself with life magic).

I just...you'd have to jump through quite a few hoops to make Calia Menethil a "Forsaken" Character.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
A battlemaster is not faction leader. While a cool name, she is not that cool...

Edit: Wowpedia says that the faction leaders are the battlemasters that were added in front of the inactive portals. I do not think that is true.
You could make the Black Bride do something to gain our trust.

PS: I'll use wayback machine to check the old faction pages.

PS2: Checked. She's the leader.

http://web.archive.org/web/201302082...n/the-defilers
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:37 PM
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I don't want Calia to be Forsaken, simple as really. It would be forced.

If Blizzard want to replace Sylvanas, and I think at this point it could go either way, then Voss is clearly the one they'll use, especially since she's been confirmed to survive Scholomance.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I still have trouble picturing Calia doing any of those things.

She wasn't a priestess when she was alive, I don't understand why she'd develop those skills afterwards (She doesn't have the personality for shadow and I have a hard time imagining her hurting herself with life magic).

I just...you'd have to jump through quite a few hoops to make Calia Menethil a "Forsaken" Character.
She didn't have much of any personality when she was alive, and I'm sure Shadow Priests could have many different personalities. What is the right personality for Shadow anyways? And why not develop those skills afterward? There's no reason why she couldn't.

And yes. You would have to jump through a few hoops. Not going to argue that point.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
You could make the Black Bride do something to gain our trust.
Which goes back to what... "Mutterscrawl"??? said.

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You could do that with any non-Calia Forsaken developed for the job though.
Any character could be set up. People keep saying Master Apothecary Lydon, but I see him as Sylvanas' right hand man (what happened to Faranell, or even Sintar Malefious?), and not an opposing viewpoint.

Quote:
PS: I'll use wayback machine to check the old faction pages.

PS2: Checked. She's the leader.

http://web.archive.org/web/201302082...n/the-defilers
That was nice, but I guess they just added a non-Varimathras leader in a patch. Su'ura Swiftarrow showed up in Wolfheart, so I guess it is true. The patch that she was added in might be wrong, as I thought she was added when the red portal was closed.
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Quote:
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
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Ten.

Years.

Last edited by Revenant; 12-23-2013 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:48 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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One thing I'd find interesting is to have Calia be a forsaken, but have been killed off long ago. Sylvanas in her early days plunders the corpses of Undercity, but discovers that one of them is actually that of Calia Menethil. Having already started her cult of "we'z totez Lordaeron, gaiz", she quickly eliminated Calia after that, burning the body, as she feared that Calia's presence would endanger her own position.

We can get a questline to uncover what happened to Calia during one of the future expansions to start the story of Sylvanas' fall. The discovery that Sylvanas has killed Calia starts a forsaken rebellion (Led by whoever will become the new racial leader. Still gunning for Leonid.), which in turn leads to the alliance grasping the opportunity to do an incursion. Horde quest is supporting rebels in taking Tirisfal glades, alliance quest is taking Silverpine, with the factions meeting around Lordamere Lake to attack Sylvanas' new retreat on Fenris Isle.

It's got an ironic end for Sylvanas, explains where Calia was all along and gives room for epic large-scale fighting.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:51 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
One thing I'd find interesting is to have Calia be a forsaken, but have been killed off long ago. Sylvanas in her early days plunders the corpses of Undercity, but discovers that one of them is actually that of Calia Menethil. Having already started her cult of "we'z totez Lordaeron, gaiz", she quickly eliminated Calia after that, burning the body, as she feared that Calia's presence would endanger her own position.

We can get a questline to uncover what happened to Calia during one of the future expansions to start the story of Sylvanas' fall. The discovery that Sylvanas has killed Calia starts a forsaken rebellion (Led by whoever will become the new racial leader. Still gunning for Leonid.), which in turn leads to the alliance grasping the opportunity to do an incursion. Horde quest is supporting rebels in taking Tirisfal glades, alliance quest is taking Silverpine, with the factions meeting around Lordamere Lake to attack Sylvanas' new retreat on Fenris Isle.

It's got an ironic end for Sylvanas, explains where Calia was all along and gives room for epic large-scale fighting.
Now that's actually pretty interesting.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:07 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Replace Sylvanas with a council of 3 Forsaken characters.

The Alliance sympathizer Galen Trollbane.
The rightful queen Calia Menethil.
And another character that's either in charge of Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, or someone in charge of the Apothecary.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:10 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
Replace Sylvanas with a council of 3 Forsaken characters.

The Alliance sympathizer Galen Trollbane.
The rightful queen Calia Menethil.
And another character that's either in charge of Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, or someone in charge of the Apothecary.
I'm willing to go with that.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:14 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Abolish monarchy and give Forsaken a republic.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:17 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I just like the idea of Calia struggling to to desire to take on the role of ruler of the forsaken. After seeing what happened to her people though she could view it as a necessity. She didn't like being used as a political pawn for Prestor and this would be a moment she could be used for it again. Sylvanas could be the one that pulls her out of hiding.

There could still be detractors that she doesn't deserve it just because she is a Menethil. Blood elves have that duality with the the high elves and the fel magic. The forsaken need that to. They don't have to be light worshipers. That would be silly. They need to bridge the gap between the kingdom today and the kingdom of the past with things like the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow.

A race of people that were killed and raised back into the undeath has so much potential and it has been wasted for so long. This is how I always managed to see the forsaken. Walking to the throne room with Terenas' tomb on the way. They can be so much better than stupid cartoon villains. The Alliance doesn't need to be so coddled that they don't' feel any scruples in fighting the Horde.
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