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Old 02-04-2014, 12:28 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default The Impact of External Forces on the Future of Lordaron

When speaking of Lordaeron, often it's a huge battle between Horde Forsaken fans and Alliance Human fans. Talk of Sylvannas, Calia, Varian, Lilian, etc. Let's not talk about any of that in this thread. We have a lovely faction thread.

However, there are other parties who's influence ought not be ignored. I present two such:

Whatever's sleeping beneath Tirisfal: Drove some elves crazy once upon a time. Could have links to the Emerald Dream if the whispering grove is involved. How could this be involved in the ultimate fate of Lordaeron?

Dread Lords: They were playing the Scarlet Crusade and the Forsaken against eachother. They never seem to die for very long. We still have no idea where Detheroc ended up (or Tichondrias for that batter, but given that the others seem to have resurfaced on the same continent where they died, I imagine we'll see him in Kalimdor someday, although nothing is guaranteed). Can the story of Lordaeron really progress without them? They were the behind the scenes workers for Lordaeron's fall from the start.

Which do you see being more relevant? Or can both be relevant together?
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:21 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Well, we can philosophize all day long but if we are being honest and follow Blizzard's oh so subtle intentions then Lordaeron will become the HQ of the Scourge 2.0 faction in WCIV (if that ever happens), if not it will be a centerpiece of an anti-Sylvanas expansion which will leave the Forsaken redeemed. Feel free to speculate on what that means, will they become uber whitewashed or turned from super-assholes into regular assholes...

The Tirisfal mystery is likely Emerald Dream related, as you've speculated OP. Not only is there the fairy dragon ring but also the fact that worgen were imprisoned in the ED and yet summoned in the nearby Silverpine forest. While it could be a coincidence it is possible that there is a link between Lordaeron and the ED and that helped summon the worgen.
If I had to guess at the nature of the being(s) beneath Tirisfal I would say evil fey, anti-Ancients if you will. The brutal and uncaring side of nature, their indifferent and capricious ways contrasting the benevolent Ancients we are familiar with.

If Blizzard didn't specifically say it is not OGs I would bet all my coppers that what was beneath Tirisfal was OG related, all the pieces fit. Honestly I half-expect Blizzard to just ignore what they said and make it an OG.

This entity, whatever it is, will play a part in the plot of the Forsaken, I am certain. Either by serving to make the faction unique and provide flavor in an RTS or be the hidden enemy (read: boss) of the Lordaeron expansion.

What happens in the end? If it is an RTS I can see the Forsaken losing Lordaeron to the Alliance after they fail their world domination scheme. If it is a WoW expansion then the Forsaken will be whitewashed (which is good thing in their case, mind you) and that status quo will carry on for the foreseeable future of this franchise.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Well, we can philosophize all day long but if we are being honest and follow Blizzard's oh so subtle intentions then Lordaeron will become the HQ of the Scourge 2.0 faction in WCIV (if that ever happens), if not it will be a centerpiece of an anti-Sylvanas expansion which will leave the Forsaken redeemed. Feel free to speculate on what that means, will they become uber whitewashed or turned from super-assholes into regular assholes...

The Tirisfal mystery is likely Emerald Dream related, as you've speculated OP. Not only is there the fairy dragon ring but also the fact that worgen were imprisoned in the ED and yet summoned in the nearby Silverpine forest. While it could be a coincidence it is possible that there is a link between Lordaeron and the ED and that helped summon the worgen.
If I had to guess at the nature of the being(s) beneath Tirisfal I would say evil fey, anti-Ancients if you will. The brutal and uncaring side of nature, their indifferent and capricious ways contrasting the benevolent Ancients we are familiar with.

If Blizzard didn't specifically say it is not OGs I would bet all my coppers that what was beneath Tirisfal was OG related, all the pieces fit. Honestly I half-expect Blizzard to just ignore what they said and make it an OG.

This entity, whatever it is, will play a part in the plot of the Forsaken, I am certain. Either by serving to make the faction unique and provide flavor in an RTS or be the hidden enemy (read: boss) of the Lordaeron expansion.

What happens in the end? If it is an RTS I can see the Forsaken losing Lordaeron to the Alliance after they fail their world domination scheme. If it is a WoW expansion then the Forsaken will be whitewashed (which is good thing in their case, mind you) and that status quo will carry on for the foreseeable future of this franchise.
Ah ah ah, I wanted to avoid faction conflict. No talk of white-washing/redeeming the Forsaken (or retaking Lordaeron either for that matter). This is purely about the greater powers outside the Alliance and Horde.

That said, I could see an unsellie (I probably spelled that wrong) force of dark fey sort creatures having some interest in the Forsaken. I wouldn't mind it spawning a playable race of changelings, kidnapped people who were replaced and changed (possibly with Calia being one of them).

It could also provide a good reason for Worgen Druids to be relevant.

Any thoughts on the Dreadlords?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:23 PM
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I am pretty sure Ny'alotha hides beneath the Tirisfal Glades. It's influence however doesn't seem major.

Many speculates it is in the ocean because of the "Flooded city" thingy. But the Old Gods speak in metaphors. Flooded could very well mean buried. And Ny'alotha being Nazjatar would be disappointing to begin with.

From there, the biggest factor in Lordaeron would be the Dwarves. Right now, Humans and Forsaken could be considered on even footing. But if this Ny'alotha is discovered and is related to the Titans in some way, the Dwarves will join the conflict, with their full might if need is.

And the Forsaken cannot stop the Humans and Dwarves combined. Especially since I don't think other Horde races will bother protectiing it.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:30 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I am pretty sure Ny'alotha hides beneath the Tirisfal Glades. It's influence however doesn't seem major.

Many speculates it is in the ocean because of the "Flooded city" thingy. But the Old Gods speak in metaphors. Flooded could very well mean buried. And Ny'alotha being Nazjatar would be disappointing to begin with.

From there, the biggest factor in Lordaeron would be the Dwarves. Right now, Humans and Forsaken could be considered on even footing. But if this Ny'alotha is discovered and is related to the Titans in some way, the Dwarves will join the conflict, with their full might if need is.

And the Forsaken cannot stop the Humans and Dwarves combined. Especially since I don't think other Horde races will bother protectiing it.
Could be flooded underneath the lake in some sort of underwater cave system. And the Emerald Dream, which has definite ties to the Whispering Forest, is actually a titan thing, which would rally in the Night Elves as well. Even that wouldn't rule out the sort of "Dark Fey" that could have been burried there. They did say that the corrupting influence that drove the Highborne mad wasn't in fact an Old God. Corrupted watchers who used to work for Freya?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:31 PM
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I thought they said the thing under Tirisfal wasn't an old god?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:34 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I thought they said the thing under Tirisfal wasn't an old god?
They did. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5208785474
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:37 PM
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If it's not an old god, it might still be connected to the bloodstone. And if it's connected to the bloodstone, the syndicate might have a big starring role.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:38 PM
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Ny'alotha doesn't need to be the home of an Old God to cause troubles.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:50 PM
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Ny'alotha doesn't need to be the home of an Old God to cause troubles.
Agreed. A bunch of corrupted Dream related watchers or unseelie (Dark Fey) backstabbing eachother could have been just as much a problem. Or, Nyalothah could be the Elven city that the Highborne first established there, only to be sunken into the lake next to the Whispering Forest. The un-numbered crimes could be what the mad elves did, and it's just an aspect of Quel'dorei history that they just don't talk about.

Interesting thought, what if the lamb lost in the Dark woods is Calia?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:50 PM
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The faerie dragon bit in the Whispering Forest makes me think it's probably Emerald Dream related. The only thing that I don't get is how that'd make the elves go insane when they first landed.
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And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:53 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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The faerie dragon bit in the Whispering Forest makes me think it's probably Emerald Dream related. The only thing that I don't get is how that'd make the elves go insane when they first landed.
The only thing I can think, since it's been declared not to be an Old God down there, it's the corrupted Titan Watchers who watched the dream before the Green Dragon Flight got the job.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:54 PM
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Agreed. A bunch of corrupted Dream related watchers or unseelie (Dark Fey) backstabbing eachother could have been just as much a problem. Or, Nyalothah could be the Elven city that the Highborne first established there, only to be sunken into the lake next to the Whispering Forest. The un-numbered crimes could be what the mad elves did, and it's just an aspect of Quel'dorei history that they just don't talk about.

Interesting thought, what if the lamb wandering in the Black Forest is Calia?
I always pictured Ny'alotha as the first Earthen City who was swallowed by Azeroth during the Sundering. There, it was flooded and underground, the Black Forest being the trees becoming a dark and twisted parody of coral. The little lamb could be the Titan watcher that lived there, maybe Tyr. Being a spirit of order, he would be lost in the chaos surrounding him in the form of Ny'alotha, hence lost in dark woods.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:54 PM
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The faerie dragon bit in the Whispering Forest makes me think it's probably Emerald Dream related. The only thing that I don't get is how that'd make the elves go insane when they first landed.
Maybe it was a first attempt at a sunwell that got corrupted by something? We know a vial from the well of eternity is possibly unaccounted for, and high elves automatically connect to big sources of arcane power. A corrupted sunwell would drive them insane and force them to quel'thalas, yet still allow humans to settle nearby without problems.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:55 PM
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One could assume that the watcher made them go insane, probably seeing the Elves as enemies as they caused the Sundering.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:55 PM
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I'm still hoping it's something from the WotA, like maybe the site of some battle between the Amani and the Burning Legion that left the land itself cursed by the demons in some way that affects trolls (and later their high elf "cousins"), but not the humans who would eventually settle there. After all, while the idea of "blood that's stone" is certainly Old Goddish on the surface, certain forms of Bloodstone have been shown to have applications in casting demonic magics as well.

Either way, i really feel like at some point there should be some uncovering of legends of nigh-forgotten battles between the Twin Empires and the invading demons. Notwithstanding Pandaria - which deemingly didn't even keep a standing army other than the Shado-pan by that time - the trolls were still the world's second-tier world powers at that point, and while it makes sense that the demons never reached Pandaria (if memory serves, the main body of the kaldorei host would have geographically stood somewhere between it and the Well) it seems silly that the demons would conduct a global invasion with the intent of slaughtering everything by only marching in one cardinal direction.

Include a south-easterly front as well, and there could be all sorts of potential for myths and legends of powerful Witchdoctors, Warlords and Shadow Hunters leading Amani and Gurubashi warriors into desperate battle in ancient Lordaeron and Stranglethorn against demonic hordes seeking to lay waste to their empires even as the Legion's central vanguard clashed with the armies of the the kaldorei.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:56 PM
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The faerie dragon bit in the Whispering Forest makes me think it's probably Emerald Dream related. The only thing that I don't get is how that'd make the elves go insane when they first landed.
Maybe thousands of years ago the stuff was more active than now?
It's also possible that the stuff has a bad effect on magic users.
Individuals who are attuned to magic might be more susceptible to the madness?

I don't know I'm just speculating.
Problem Emerald Dream related but other than that no clue....
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:57 PM
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Maybe it was a first attempt at a sunwell that got corrupted by something? We know a vial from the well of eternity is possibly unaccounted for, and high elves automatically connect to big sources of arcane power. A corrupted sunwell would drive them insane and force them to quel'thalas, yet still allow humans to settle nearby without problems.
Maybe. But wasn't the last Vial actually used by Illidan in WoE when we fought that Abyssal? Or well, I guess it'd be the first vial in that case
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:58 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I always pictured Ny'alotha as the first Earthen City who was swallowed by Azeroth during the Sundering. There, it was flooded and underground, the Black Forest being the trees becoming a dark and twisted parody of coral. The little lamb could be the Titan watcher that lived there, maybe Tyr. Being a spirit of order, he would be lost in the chaos surrounding him in the form of Ny'alotha, hence lost in dark woods.
Only issues I have:

I don't think of Tyr as a lamb.

Not all titans are Earth and Stone related. Eonar empowered Ysera, who taught Cenarius everything he knows. Therefore, there's more to the Titans than just stone, iron, etc. I agree with it being titan. But I also think it's more in relation to the nature aspect of Titans that we haven't seen much of yet.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:05 PM
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Maybe. But wasn't the last Vial actually used by Illidan in WoE when we fought that Abyssal? Or well, I guess it'd be the first vial in that case
Illidan stuck something in the well again afterwards, so it may have been refilled.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:07 PM
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Only issues I have:

I don't think of Tyr as a lamb.

Not all titans are Earth and Stone related. Eonar empowered Ysera, who taught Cenarius everything he knows. Therefore, there's more to the Titans than just stone, iron, etc. I agree with it being titan. But I also think it's more in relation to the nature aspect of Titans that we haven't seen much of yet.
Tyr is a lamb in the eyes of the Old Gods. He is lost in dark woods, he is lost on their territory. He is defenseless and they control him. He isn't a lamb for mortals, but he is for Old Gods. And what matters on Ny'alotha is the Old Gods' point of view for now as it is the only thing we know about it.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Tyr is a lamb in the eyes of the Old Gods. He is lost in dark woods, he is lost on their territory. He is defenseless and they control him. He isn't a lamb for mortals, but he is for Old Gods. And what matters on Ny'alotha is the Old Gods' point of view for now as it is the only thing we know about it.
You certain they regard him as a lamb? It would make sense but it could also be argued that beings like Tyr would be among the few they respect for their power. Heck, we don't even know if Tyr is there or if he is under their control. you assume a great deal.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:15 PM
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You certain they regard him as a lamb? It would make sense but it could also be argued that beings like Tyr would be among the few they respect for their power. Heck, we don't even know if Tyr is there or if he is under their control. you assume a great deal.
Yeah I do assume based on my theory wich is just so fucking awesome it will never be a thing.

On the topic of the Old Gods regarding Tyr with respect, they considered Sargeras weak and thought they would obliterate him. Tyr is less powerful than Sargeras. They have no reason to respect him.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:47 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Yeah I do assume based on my theory wich is just so fucking awesome it will never be a thing.

On the topic of the Old Gods regarding Tyr with respect, they considered Sargeras weak and thought they would obliterate him. Tyr is less powerful than Sargeras. They have no reason to respect him.
Still, the whole Whispering Forest bit links it more to an Eonar afilliated Watcher or titanic servants, and Tyr doesn't seem like one of those.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:49 PM
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Still, the whole Whispering Forest bit links it more to an Eonar afilliated Watcher or titanic servants, and Tyr doesn't seem like one of those.
Nature hippy stuff is boring. I didn't consider the circle thingy.
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