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  #1051  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:19 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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I regret commenting.
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Okay. It is cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
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  #1052  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:19 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I regret commenting.
Don't be scared.
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  #1053  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:26 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Don't be scared.
Fine.

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Why's that?
The concept that the page is about in debates is bad. One should debate better and not be malicious.

That page, however, is also bad and disheartened me on a few levels:

1) That the concept exists and people do that.

2) That the website and its community has put so much effort into categorizing ways they are offended.

3) That the website straw-mans those who utilize the flawed debate tactic into malicious ass-hats.

4) That both sides of this... something... are both so damn mean.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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  #1054  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:28 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
...you know, you're right.

Let's make Sylvanas a tankier character and keep her armor the same. Because "lol practical reasons", right?
... What?

How is that even remotely related to what I'm saying?


You're making zero sense there.


All I'm doing is saying your reasoning about how she'd wear light armor cause she's kiting and such doesn't make any sense.

You can't use practical reasons halfway and then dismiss them because she's in a video game.

Just start with the fact that it's a video game to begin with.
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  #1055  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:30 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Fine.
I don't know how to interpret a glare! You are the mysterious mod that sent me a PM telling me you don't hate me.
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  #1056  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:30 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
The concept that the page is about in debates is bad. One should debate better and not be malicious.

That page, however, is also bad and disheartened me on a few levels:

1) That the concept exists and people do that.

2) That the website and its community has put so much effort into categorizing ways they are offended.

3) That the website straw-mans those who utilize the flawed debate tactic into malicious ass-hats.

4) That both sides of this... something... are both so damn mean.
Ah Okay.

Yeah it's sad.
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  #1057  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:07 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I don't see how that rhetoric applies to either "not all men" or "mansplaining." "Not all men," for example, is a fallacious rhetorical interjection frequently used by men that acts as a distraction from the main point.
Would you care to explain how "!(x → y)" is a fallacious response to "x → y"?

Last edited by Kellick; 11-09-2014 at 09:10 PM..
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  #1058  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:18 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
... What?

How is that even remotely related to what I'm saying?


You're making zero sense there.


All I'm doing is saying your reasoning about how she'd wear light armor cause she's kiting and such doesn't make any sense.

You can't use practical reasons halfway and then dismiss them because she's in a video game.

Just start with the fact that it's a video game to begin with.
It's not just because it's a video game, though. I'd be saying the same thing about a character in a fantasy novel wearing something similar, and it would not change my point. Realism still applies in those scenarios, but often ends up being tempered, usually when crotchety old guys can point a finger and throw out a bolt of lightning or a ball of flame, or when armor can be magical and provide more protection than just its durability.

That's why it works better in Game of Thrones; the armor isn't magical, there aren't any stupidly overpowered wizards raining doom on armies, and what magic there is seems to be either heavily ritualized, subtle, or uncontrolled by humans. But in World of WarCraft? They can get away with more unrealistic designs that still confirm to realistic reasoning. Her armor is lightweight and magical, which means it offers more protection than it otherwise would, and it doesn't need to cover her skin anyway because she's not going to be concerned about brushing against some poison ivy or getting little scrapes from some brambles, since she's undead. Hell, she might not even care about showing skin because she's undead and "shame" is, by all accounts, more of a positive emotion.

Hell, I'll go one step further; Grom should honestly be wearing a bit more armor in WoD than he is. Maybe not Blackhand levels of being armored, but definitely more than a shoulder pauldron and some pants.

...and as you even said, it's not like they've changed her armor; she's still rocking the bikiniplate, she just has a shirt on underneath it now. If they had changed the armor to cover more of her, I doubt anybody would care as much, but this change comes off as pointless and serves no other purpose than to make some people feel better. This is even more obvious with Jaina being included, since she's showing midriff and cleavage as well. But that also makes sense. She's a mage, and armor - in damn near every setting - inhibits most forms of arcane spellcasting. Hell, I'm the most excited for the FemCrusader being brought into HotS, because I do genuinely like more heavily armored characters. Especially when it makes sense; I wouldn't have a mage or a nimble melee fighter who relies on speed to avoid being hit in bulky armor, and I wouldn't have a more tanky character in a dress. It's also why I'm unbothered by the limits on transmog in WoW when it comes to armor.

Or to boil it down; some realism is still important, but it has limits in fantasy. A low-magic setting (GoT) has more importance on realism than a high-magic setting might (Forgotten Realms), but it can't just be ignored because it's a novel or a video game.

Or to boil it down further? I would not give a shit if they gave Sylvanas more armor. But they didn't, and so what the fuck was the point, other than to appease people who don't like characters that show some skin or are otherwise "sexualized"?
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  #1059  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Would you care to explain how "!(x → y)" is a fallacious response to "x → y"?
Would you mind rephrasing your question? Thanks.
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  #1060  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:43 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Would you care to explain how "!(x → y)" is a fallacious response to "x → y"?
Needs more quantifiers, bro. Where's that ∀, m' boy?
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  #1061  
Old 11-09-2014, 10:17 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I'm having trouble processing Yak's post beyond that Sylvanas's bikini is apparently magic so I'll try rereading it in the morning and perhaps reply then.
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  #1062  
Old 11-09-2014, 11:16 PM
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*sigh* And THIS is why Gawker & Co is still going strong - people throwing hissy fits about the art direction of art directors...

*breathes in*

In the *VERY* *BLEEPING* *THREAD* that *SHOULD* be about *CORRUPTION* and not your freaking waifu getting a shirt and some pants...

And then people wonder why GG has bad publicity... And no, just because SJW decided to go up against GG for wathever reason doesn't mean you get to vent all your little trouble against SJW.

Did you take ONE second to realize you're actually trying to force people to go against their own will because it doesn't fit your own? The VERY thing GG should be against?

Now, get to your mails, soldier!

[EDIT] Just went around and saw Mike Morhaime's interview after the Opening Ceremony. THAT FACE when the word GamerGate drops from "Politely happy" to "Neutral".

Now, I'll admit the question remains open as to what ticked him: Reminding him of GG, or linking GG to his harassement speech. But when a professional spokesperson drops his gameface like that, you know he's pissed.

[EDIT 2] For the record:

"When that micro gets off air, shit's going down, son."

Last edited by Sagara; 11-09-2014 at 11:40 PM..
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  #1063  
Old 11-09-2014, 11:36 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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You know, Sagara is right. As am I. Let's talk about corruption, like this shit-show! =D

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/201...judges-tweets/
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  #1064  
Old 11-09-2014, 11:52 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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GG really needs to take all this focus off of the YouTube personalities and just get back to work. KingofPols bitch fit needs to be ignored and the focus turned back on Gawker.
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  #1065  
Old 11-09-2014, 11:55 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Ragnahar View Post
GG really needs to take all this focus off of the YouTube personalities and just get back to work. KingofPols bitch fit needs to be ignored and the focus turned back on Gawker.
It's not just Gawker, but Gamasutra, Polygon, and their ilk as well. Gawker is just the easiest (or biggest) to target because they're just generally shit as it is.
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  #1066  
Old 11-10-2014, 12:05 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Wasn't Gamasutra the one that lost Intel? After reading all the "Gamers Are Dead" articles again, I can't fathom how anyone who considers themselves gamers could even remotely believe it was meant to be positive about gaming culture.
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  #1067  
Old 11-10-2014, 12:09 AM
Sagara Sagara is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
It's not just Gawker, but Gamasutra, Polygon, and their ilk as well. Gawker is just the easiest (or biggest) to target because they're just generally shit as it is.
Honstly, I feel like targeting particular companies, while efficient, is going to bite GG in the behind soon enough. When you're openly hunting Gawker (and Gama and Polygon and what have you), you leave yourself open to accusations of favoritism when a pro-GG outlet gets caught in a scandal.

I think a mid-term objective, once a few good hits are scored, is to spearhead an ombudsman of sorts, ideally someone respected by all the sides even in disagreement. A face that could actually carry on the torch of ethics (and probably also anti-harassement) without the whole "leader of Gamergate" trouble that would happen right now.

But that implies having a handful of names from all the sides being brought to the table to talk, instead of throwing the spotlight on extremists on both sides and having little stream circlejerks about how "we're right, they're wrong, and here's why".
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  #1068  
Old 11-10-2014, 02:10 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Putting too much focus on individuals is a bad idea, it leads to the kind of troubles GG has had recently. Rogue Star may be a bit cray and uber thick on that military lingo but he mentioned a good idea. When emailing advertisers, don't use any kind of #GamerGate tags or associate yourself with any kind of group, and if you can get a screenshot of their advertisements on the website directly next to the article you found to be troubling.
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  #1069  
Old 11-10-2014, 05:37 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Would you mind rephrasing your question? Thanks.
I've gotten down to bog standard logical language. I literally cannot simplify it further. I can only provide analogies which necessarily confuse the point.

Person A says: If rectangle, then square. Or: x → y
Person B says: "If rectangle, then square" is false. Or !(x → y)
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  #1070  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:07 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Does anyone else kind of want to put their dick in Anita Sarkeesian, just to see what it'd be like to fuck a corpse without committing felony necrophilia?
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  #1071  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:12 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Does anyone else kind of want to put their dick in Anita Sarkeesian, just to see what it'd be like to fuck a corpse without committing felony necrophilia?
Not helping.
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  #1072  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:13 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Not helping.
With what?
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  #1073  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:19 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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With what?
Anything.
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  #1074  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:23 AM
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Not helping.
What he said.
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  #1075  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:25 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Anything.
So here's the thing. This "Gamer Gate" bullshit is the dumbest fucking thing ever. You all need to stop feeding it with attention and just enjoy playing your games. If feminists want good games with female heroes or whatever, then female gamers need to do what everyone else that wants a game that doesn't exist does, and fucking MAKE THAT GAME THEMSELVES.

But no. It's easier to bitch about it on the Internet.

Another note: Sarkeesian doesn't give a shit about games or gamers or feminism. She used to be a sort of spokesperson for some self-help, get rich probably a scam thing. She learned how to make money and get famous the fast way. She's a champion for capitalism, nothing else.

And she's moderately attractive, which doesn't hurt.
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