Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-18-2016, 02:22 AM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

Arch-Druid
Ol'Yoggy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,390

Default Redo Cataclysm

I think at this point it's clear that Cataclysm is when things started to go downhill. Gameplay wise it may have streamlined a lot of stuff. I only played through wrath but getting raids and assembling teams sucked balls than so I'll take people's words on Cataclysm being better. The problem is that it was also pretty halfbaked and introduced a lot of stupid ass shit.

Problems included

1.) Horde Bias: Yes, I'm aware this existed. The most blatant example was making Thrall the messiah. The blog rewritewarcraft summed it up "Thrall was just a bad choice because he represents the Horde in the same way that Bugs Bunny represents Looney Tunes -- you can't just SAY a character like that is neutral without backing it up with some hardcore evidence." An entire alliance storyline was cut from twilight highlands, and in general the horde was making gains during the war. So how to fix this?

a.) Make Nobundo the main hero. He's a broken draenei and not only could you get a story (he wants to save azeroth where he failed to save draenor, plus he's a "broken" healing a shattered world.) Unlike Thrall he can actually claim to be neutral as well.

2.) The villains weren't really that threatening at times; at Uldum there was a bad nazi rip off, and to be honest the Twilight's Hammer kinda stops being much of a threat after Patch 4.1 (not a good sign when you're main mooks stop being much of a big deal that early).

3.) The sense that not a lot was accomplished. Death wing's gone, but the old gods are still out there. Hell, given the aspects are weakened they may have more of an advantage next go around. There should have been tangible progress (maybe find a way to sever the old god's link enough that they can be destroyed without killing Azeroth, or make progress on that front at the very least). The Old gods should suffer more of a blow than loosing just deathwing and the twilight's hammer

4.) Aesop Amnesia: In WC3 and the first three parts of WOW (WOW base, burning crusade, and wrath) the orcs were either redeeming themselves or less obnoxious (we see Saurfang Jr cooperate with bolvar, and during the outland invasions and northrend campaign (except for just after the wrath gate and that chickenshit at the broken front) the orcs and alliance cooperated well. Ashenvale was explained as being partially caused by the Venture company destroying Stonetalon's forests, and the Alterac Valley situation was more of gray on gray morality) In Cataclysm, the orc race just gets obnoxious and starts behaving like assholes. You COULD have had it that in the aftermath of the cataclysm there was a lot less resources, and they got increasingly desperate enough to follow someone like Garrosh, and I think Blizzard may have wanted to convey it. They just sucked at showing it. They had a tweet saying most of the orc race didn't side with garrosh at orgrimmar but it felt like damage control in the way that they realized "shit we wrote this badly".
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-18-2016, 06:43 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

Elune
Drusus's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Greymane's Offensive
Posts: 8,699

Default

As odd as it may sound, I never minded Thrall's 'neutral' position per say. If we ignore his World Shaman BIG GREEN COCK OF METZEN nonsense for a moment and instead focus on his position of neutrality. The complaint against Alliance-neutrals has always been that once they go neutral, they stay that way. Any and all slights against the Horde are forgotten, they preach how they must unite and that the Alliance is somehow just as culpable for the wars as the Horde. Thrall was a decent 'neutral' in that he was going neutral for an expansion, but was very obviously a Horde character at heart, and that once this whole mess was over he'd go back to being on their side.

Cataclysm's most glaring issue was its lack of phasing. Since the end of WotLK, Phasing to Blizzard seems to be like the Christmas dinner; they brought great food, lots of it, and it tastes brilliant. Once they get on the scales however they immediately bemoan it, silently cursing themselves for eating that delicious food and swearing it off. In other words, phasing is a GREAT mechanic, but they seem absolutely mortified at actually using it short of shifting NPCs five meters. Heck, even in WoD Maraad still shows up in some zones even after he's died, and Yrel can be seen in about four different armour variations in pretty much every single camp. Whether or not it was just a consequene of their running out of time I don't know, but Cataclysm SERIOUSLY needed to take more advantage of phasing. The most obvious examples of this being Westfall, Gilneas, etc.

The Horde wank has been discussed at length so I won't dredge it up here. Otherwise, the Alliance was suffering Stupid Good even before MoP's overdrive. At best, they were indifferent to the Horde's aggression and at worst they pulled the 'better than them' trope which just made them look like idiots (Stonard). The faction war needed far, far, more in the way of grey morality for the Alliance. Even Taurajo - arguably its 'greyest' moment - comes down to the commander still wanting to allow civilians to flee and taking steps to mitigate the aftermath. When the Horde fanboys have to kick and scream how fucking TAURAJO of all things is somehow the justification for the Horde's war then you know the barrel is being thoroughly scraped.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.

Last edited by Drusus; 01-18-2016 at 06:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-18-2016, 09:34 AM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

Arch-Druid
Ol'Yoggy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,390

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
As odd as it may sound, I never minded Thrall's 'neutral' position per say. If we ignore his World Shaman BIG GREEN COCK OF METZEN nonsense for a moment and instead focus on his position of neutrality. The complaint against Alliance-neutrals has always been that once they go neutral, they stay that way. Any and all slights against the Horde are forgotten, they preach how they must unite and that the Alliance is somehow just as culpable for the wars as the Horde. Thrall was a decent 'neutral' in that he was going neutral for an expansion, but was very obviously a Horde character at heart, and that once this whole mess was over he'd go back to being on their side.

Cataclysm's most glaring issue was its lack of phasing. Since the end of WotLK, Phasing to Blizzard seems to be like the Christmas dinner; they brought great food, lots of it, and it tastes brilliant. Once they get on the scales however they immediately bemoan it, silently cursing themselves for eating that delicious food and swearing it off. In other words, phasing is a GREAT mechanic, but they seem absolutely mortified at actually using it short of shifting NPCs five meters. Heck, even in WoD Maraad still shows up in some zones even after he's died, and Yrel can be seen in about four different armour variations in pretty much every single camp. Whether or not it was just a consequene of their running out of time I don't know, but Cataclysm SERIOUSLY needed to take more advantage of phasing. The most obvious examples of this being Westfall, Gilneas, etc.

The Horde wank has been discussed at length so I won't dredge it up here. Otherwise, the Alliance was suffering Stupid Good even before MoP's overdrive. At best, they were indifferent to the Horde's aggression and at worst they pulled the 'better than them' trope which just made them look like idiots (Stonard). The faction war needed far, far, more in the way of grey morality for the Alliance. Even Taurajo - arguably its 'greyest' moment - comes down to the commander still wanting to allow civilians to flee and taking steps to mitigate the aftermath. When the Horde fanboys have to kick and scream how fucking TAURAJO of all things is somehow the justification for the Horde's war then you know the barrel is being thoroughly scraped.
Yeah. They could have easily used things like the alliance cutting off trade after the wrath gate for instance
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-18-2016, 09:38 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

Elune
Drusus's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Greymane's Offensive
Posts: 8,699

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
Yeah. They could have easily used things like the alliance cutting off trade after the wrath gate for instance
Thing is, Varian already declared war.

Then they retconned it.

Bravo Metzen.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-18-2016, 09:51 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,773

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
As odd as it may sound, I never minded Thrall's 'neutral' position per say. If we ignore his World Shaman BIG GREEN COCK OF METZEN nonsense for a moment and instead focus on his position of neutrality. The complaint against Alliance-neutrals has always been that once they go neutral, they stay that way. Any and all slights against the Horde are forgotten, they preach how they must unite and that the Alliance is somehow just as culpable for the wars as the Horde. Thrall was a decent 'neutral' in that he was going neutral for an expansion, but was very obviously a Horde character at heart, and that once this whole mess was over he'd go back to being on their side.

Cataclysm's most glaring issue was its lack of phasing. Since the end of WotLK, Phasing to Blizzard seems to be like the Christmas dinner; they brought great food, lots of it, and it tastes brilliant. Once they get on the scales however they immediately bemoan it, silently cursing themselves for eating that delicious food and swearing it off. In other words, phasing is a GREAT mechanic, but they seem absolutely mortified at actually using it short of shifting NPCs five meters. Heck, even in WoD Maraad still shows up in some zones even after he's died, and Yrel can be seen in about four different armour variations in pretty much every single camp. Whether or not it was just a consequene of their running out of time I don't know, but Cataclysm SERIOUSLY needed to take more advantage of phasing. The most obvious examples of this being Westfall, Gilneas, etc.

The Horde wank has been discussed at length so I won't dredge it up here. Otherwise, the Alliance was suffering Stupid Good even before MoP's overdrive. At best, they were indifferent to the Horde's aggression and at worst they pulled the 'better than them' trope which just made them look like idiots (Stonard). The faction war needed far, far, more in the way of grey morality for the Alliance. Even Taurajo - arguably its 'greyest' moment - comes down to the commander still wanting to allow civilians to flee and taking steps to mitigate the aftermath. When the Horde fanboys have to kick and scream how fucking TAURAJO of all things is somehow the justification for the Horde's war then you know the barrel is being thoroughly scraped.
I really couldn't of said it better, so I won't try.

Phasing especially, anyone that's read my posts knows this is a massive complaint from me that I've raised several times. It's.....astounding (only word that really fits) to me how Blizzard refuse to use Phasing more because "reasons".
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-18-2016, 10:00 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

Eternal Watcher
Yaskaleh's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The heart of Scania
Posts: 18,625
BattleTag: Yaskaleh#1817

Default

I may ruffle some feathers here but Cataclysm would've been the perfect time to add Med'an as a recurring villain. The prophecy of Cho'gall from the comics speak of how the child of three worlds would bring about the Hour of Twillight. This was then changed to Deathwing but I always felt that butchered Deathwing as a character. Instead we could've had a dark and twisted Med'an as the Twillight Messiah, working together with Deathwing to bring about the Hour of Twillight but failing at the end as Deathwing is killed. Med'an would evade the champions and show up later as the main villain when we bring the fight to N'zoth and the Old Gods.

Quote:
"When the child of the three realms becomes as light, the ancient power will be released. The earth will tremble. The seas will rise up in answer, and all will be madness. A new day will dawn, bringing with it chaos or peace."
__________________

Say no to genocide!
Save the Nightborne!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-18-2016, 10:16 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,991

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
As odd as it may sound, I never minded Thrall's 'neutral' position per say. If we ignore his World Shaman BIG GREEN COCK OF METZEN nonsense for a moment and instead focus on his position of neutrality. The complaint against Alliance-neutrals has always been that once they go neutral, they stay that way. Any and all slights against the Horde are forgotten, they preach how they must unite and that the Alliance is somehow just as culpable for the wars as the Horde. Thrall was a decent 'neutral' in that he was going neutral for an expansion, but was very obviously a Horde character at heart, and that once this whole mess was over he'd go back to being on their side.

Cataclysm's most glaring issue was its lack of phasing. Since the end of WotLK, Phasing to Blizzard seems to be like the Christmas dinner; they brought great food, lots of it, and it tastes brilliant. Once they get on the scales however they immediately bemoan it, silently cursing themselves for eating that delicious food and swearing it off. In other words, phasing is a GREAT mechanic, but they seem absolutely mortified at actually using it short of shifting NPCs five meters. Heck, even in WoD Maraad still shows up in some zones even after he's died, and Yrel can be seen in about four different armour variations in pretty much every single camp. Whether or not it was just a consequene of their running out of time I don't know, but Cataclysm SERIOUSLY needed to take more advantage of phasing. The most obvious examples of this being Westfall, Gilneas, etc.

The Horde wank has been discussed at length so I won't dredge it up here. Otherwise, the Alliance was suffering Stupid Good even before MoP's overdrive. At best, they were indifferent to the Horde's aggression and at worst they pulled the 'better than them' trope which just made them look like idiots (Stonard). The faction war needed far, far, more in the way of grey morality for the Alliance. Even Taurajo - arguably its 'greyest' moment - comes down to the commander still wanting to allow civilians to flee and taking steps to mitigate the aftermath. When the Horde fanboys have to kick and scream how fucking TAURAJO of all things is somehow the justification for the Horde's war then you know the barrel is being thoroughly scraped.
Great post. I agree both on the shameful lack of phasing and fail to show the Alliance a realistic geopolitical faction with with darker, yet mostly understandable actions and reactions.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-18-2016, 10:40 AM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

Demon Hunter
Eelgrin's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 446

Default

Instead of Ultraxion, I would've liked to see Theralion and Valiona's heads both stitched onto a Twilight dragon body. Weird change, but here's my reasoning.

To me it seemed like Chromatus, the dragon with heads from each flight, was set up in the novel to be a boss in Dragon Soul, and the devs ended up changing their minds. I suspect the Ultraxion fight might have originally been Chromatus, but like a lot of DS, existing models were repurposed because artists were largely on MoP by then.

So we got Ultraxion, who was supposed to be the ultimate Twilight creation, described as an "abomination" and "twisted", but was really just a big Twilight dragon with purple fire on his back. Keeping with the idea of Deathwing/Nefarian/Twilight experiments, it could've been fun to see Theralion and Valiona punished for their failure in BoT by being merged into a Twilight uberdragon that's constantly bickering with itself. There could be a phase where the heads are fighting each other, or something. It would've been kinda foreshadowed by Chimaeron in BWD, and have some continuity from Bastion in some of the only memorable (if annoying) characters from that raid returning.

On the whole, anything to add continuity would've helped the Cataclysm narrative, imho.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-18-2016, 10:53 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,788

Default

Step 1: have an actual coherent narrative present in-game, rather than disjointed bits and pieces of one.


Really, all other things are secondary.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-18-2016, 01:13 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

Elune
Erthad's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stromgarde
Posts: 9,556
BattleTag: Erthad #1438

Default

I think that Blizzard thought they needed a big story justification for going back in to the old and changing everything, but I don't agree. I wouldn't have had a world shattering event at all.

Update the zones without scarring almost every zone. It would have made the Twilights Hammer less threatening, but they could have found another way to make them intimidating.

The Twilights Hammer shouldn't have been overtly powerful like they were. Focus more on them being secretive and having infiltrated the Alliance and Horde. Them feeling like a second Scourge was annoying. No Bastion of Twilight, they'd be based out of Grim Batol.

I think Cataclysm is where Blizzard decided that every new threat had to one up the last one and I think that was a huge mistake.
---------------------------------------
I'd make Sylvanas not Hitler levels of evil because that's what her fans actually want and it means that the eventual peace between the Alliance and Forsaken would make sense.

First, no Val'kyr, no more raising of the dead for them. The idea that the Forsaken's numbers would eventually diminish is probably true, but not really that important IMO. Just say that former Scourge coming in to their minds are joining them.

Garrosh would be more overtly blamed for the evil things that they do like continuing with the Blight and invading Gilneas. The Royal Apothecary society would now be antagonistic towards Sylvanas trying to take over control of the Forsaken by cozzying up with Garrosh. It would be revealed that the vast majority of the group is still loyal to Putress' ideas.
-------------------------------------------
The Dwarves story line would be one of war between Muradin's Bronzebeards and Moira's Dark Irons. The Wildhammer would be trying to bring an end to the conflict. The Dwarf zones would play to this theme more. Wetlands and Loch Modan would be less about killing the nature things there and more about the Dwarves' story.

Badlands/Searing Cauldron would be the end of the war and the two factions uniting to reclaim Blackrock from the Twilight Hammer loyal Dark Irons that have seized control of the city.

Twilight Highlands would have the three Clans uniting to save the Wildhammer there.
------------------------
And of course Danath would come back and retake and rebuild Stromgarde and it would be great.

Gameplay wise, dungeons, raids, and grinding all would have been more like Wrath. Hardcore pandering really hurt WoW.
__________________

Last edited by Erthad; 01-19-2016 at 02:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-19-2016, 11:53 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

Chimaera
Icefrost's Avatar
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 273

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
I think that Blizzard thought they needed a big story justification for going back in to the old and changing everything, but I don't agree. I wouldn't have had a world shattering event at all.

Update the zones without scarring almost every zone. It would have made the Twilights Hammer less threatening, but they could have found another way to make them intimidating.

The Twilights Hammer shouldn't have been overtly powerful like they were. Focus more on them being secretive and having infiltrated the Alliance and Horde. Them feeling like a second Scourge was annoying. No Bastion of Twilight, they'd be based out of Grim Batol.

I think Cataclysm is where Blizzard decided that every new threat had to one up the last one and I think that was a huge mistake.
If this all was short enough to make into a sig what wasn't kind of obtrusively big, I'd barely have to actually type anything into any of the actual posts around here.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-19-2016, 12:34 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

Site Staff - Admin
Shaman's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448

Lightbulb

I would finish Silithus.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-19-2016, 06:25 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

Eternal
DerpiusMaximus's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,635

Default

1) Change the focus. The Catacylsm is now the result of the Twilight's Hammer successful attempts at bringing parts of the Elemental Planes directly into Azeroth. The Twilight's Hammer and the Elemental Lords are the main villains.

2) Undumb the Black Dragonflight. Deathwing and his flight would still be around. However, it's not the Twilight's Hammer fault the Horde and Alliance are in conflict. Deathwing's children have hidden themselves in the ranks of both factions, edging things subtly towards war. Deathwing himself is barely seen at all, probably only when interacting with other Aspects. You can still have black drakes around for random dragon killing, that's fine, but greater dragons should be occasionally be revealed to be fucking things up from within.

3) Break the zones in a more limited mannerl; make it a focus but not the only focus. One problem with the expansion was leaning too hard on "EVERYTHING HAS EXPLODED ALL AROUND YOU" and a lot of zones lost a lot of their luster and beauty as a result. This is just annoying and actually make you resent the changes. The better idea, in my opinion, would be to really only heavily impact one part of only a handful of zones. Otherwise, you can change out mobs in other places where it makes sense for elemental or Twilight bases or enemies. More importantly I think, it's important to show the effects of the Catacylsm not in terms of zone damage but overall impact and changes it's caused in other ways. However, some zones like Desolace or Thousand Needles did need a face life in other ways - but I think a chunk of Deepholme

4) Set a definitive time period. One thing I hate about Catacylsm is that some zones feel like they were blown up just yesterday. Others feel like they've been impacted for weeks or months already. Personally, I think it should have been set about 3 months to 6 months after the initial Catacylsm moment, where you're really dealing with the longer term fallout and the new status quo of Azeroth. It also means that it aids a certain weight of, "This is just how Azeroth is now" and avoids that temporary, fleeting feeling Cata had since most of the zones felt like they just needed to be cleaned up but that you weren't ever going to see the actual results of your clean up duties despite questing.

5) Let druids, more shaman, or at least a unified shaman-druid front. I felt like the druids stole the show towards the end. I'd probably ditch Hyjal altogether or make it demon focused instead or something. If the druids had to be involved, some sort of Cenarion Circle and Earth Ring alliance ala the Shattered Sun Offensive would have been good.

6) Silithus. This should have been THE first endgame zone. The desert being twisted by the Old God corruption as the bastion of the Twilight's Hammer with the Elemental Lords occupying one significant subzone or something. In a way, Silithus could and should have been changed to show you the ultimate endgame the Twilight's Hammer and Elemental Lords had in mind - a return of Azeroth to its Black Empire days.

7) If you're going to redo the world, actually do it all. Draenai and blood elf zones, Silithus, Dustwallow Marsh, so on and so forth should have all received the face lift. WoW's greatest strength was how streamlined and well flowing the world was. Make the world fit together and feel like a world, not a set of load screens where it should have been able avoided. Also, don't fucking leave out places in your revamp because you're breaking immersion.

7) Less stupid Horde.
Orcs: I'd change a part of Wrath - Saurfang the Younger survives but heavily wounded at the Wrathgate, sitting out the rest of the war and allowing Garrosh to take greater glories, allowing for his ascension to Warchief. Maybe Saurfang the Younger dies later in the expansion, maybe not, but he'd be rallying point for orcs who actually dug what Thrall was about. This gives you have a dichotomy within the Horde and the orcs. Those who want to follow Thrall's ideas of a better Horde and orcs centered on shamanism and working with other races. And those who think Garrosh's "might makes right" ways are the only way to survive and fuck the non-orcs. In different parts of WoW, you're presented different types of orcs, some leaning closer to Vanilla and TBC's noble savages, some leaning closer to what we got of every orc post-Cata.

Forsaken: Abandoned the val'kyr, but possibly do keep necromancers. This doesn't really make sense to me as the Forsaken have seemingly been waking up new undead all the time. To me, there's nothing limiting necromancers from creating new Forsaken from undead humans beyond skill. The Lich King was merely the most efficient and powerful at it. Abandon the plague, as well. Post-Wrathgate, it made no sense to use. Forsaken are looking to secure all/most of northern Eastern Kingdoms simply to truly establish their place in the world. Yeah, they're going to attack places like Southshore or Hillsbrad, but they aren't going to wipe these places out - they're going to take them over as their new home. And to be honest, I think only one of those places needed to be destroyed or under attack, not both. Give the the Forsaken a numbers boost as zombie thralls under the Lich King are freed and their minds restored. The Forsaken open their doors to these poor souls, giving them a place to be and place to start their new unlife.

Trolls: Vol'jin is actually present and doesn't immediately abandon Garrosh and threaten his life like a fucking idiot - instead he eventually and slowly withdraws support as he becomes more disapproving. Give the Darkspear something to actually do. I like the idea that they'd try to claim more of STV themselves, hoping to claim some ancestral lands or something.

Tauren: Baine is given more to do than cry that his dad is dead in Mulgore. Taurajo still destroyed, but instead of being chumps about it, Baine and the tuaren fight back. The Barren is their home and will not simply sit around and be massacred in it again. Actively have Baine and the tauren involved in warring against the Grimtotem - while we fought them a lot, the resolution felt weak/nonexistent and the tauren felt extremely uninvolved with it.

Goblins: Should have been the Steamwheedle Cartel. It was the one cartel that had constant ties to the orcs. And if not the Steamwheedles, then Gazlowe and his followers break away and start their own cartel to join up with their orc buddies. I hate the Bilgewater Cartel. They came out of nowhere and have no backstory, feel extremely out of place due to no real loyalty or connection to the Horde (when we already have a race that has tenuous alliances with the Horde anyway), and are even occasionally upstaged by the Steamwheedles anyway, so you may as well use the Steamwheedles or some Gazlowe led offshoot.

8) Less stupid, more proactive Alliance.
Humans: Westfall was so insanely stupid, I really think that unless that zone was fixed, then nothing else matters. Personally, I like the idea that Varian isn't exactly a warmonger, but he's got all the proof in the world from the Wrathgate and Undercity to prove that the Horde is unchecked and the Alliance must deal with it. However, he's not some High King, and some sort of Alliance council must make decisions. They stand behind him because they want to support him and others who feel the Horde, especially under Garrosh, must be dealt with and countered.

Dwarves: Should have actually shown more of the division and lack of unity. A lot of their lore wasn't developed in the game, which is silly. Not sure if Magni should have been turned into a rock. I think it would have been interesting watching him trying to make amends with his daughter or their conflict. Eventually, you'd have some awesome moment in-game where the three clans do fight together as one, and it's fucking awesome and they're like, "Okay, you fuckers are all different, but damn when we have each other's backs, we do some crazy awesome shit."

Gnomes: Made less of a joke race. Given some actual involvement and story development. They had a decent idea with reclaiming some of Gnomeregan at least. Tbh, I have no idea what I'd do with gnomes because Blizz has given us so little to work with.

Draenai: I don't know, to be honest. Maybe something involving the draenai and the Broken, but not sure what.

Worgen: For starters, they should have either reclaimed Gilneas or at the least gotten their own quarter within Stormwind. Greatly lessen the connection with the Night Elves. Makes no sense the xenophobic, closed off Gilnean people are suddenly and over night buttbuddies with purple elves they've never seen before and are actually the root behind their current state of affairs. Worgen suffered from the draenai problem to a great extent - introduced a bit in their own zones then completely forgotten about in their own expansions. I feel like it would have been interesting to have had Raven Hill be turned into a worgen town (because there are like 0 worgen towns with Gilnean architecture in Azeroth proper save for Blasted Lands and that place never made any fucking sense to me), a place handed over by Varian to the Gilneans to be a new settlement for them. And it's got all this tension with the people of Darkshire, who have legit reasons to be wary of the worgen. I feel like their story should have been about reestablishing their relationship with the rest of humanity, despite the fact they had to essentially give some of theirs up. You can still have some worgen druids and such to show how Gilneans are rapidly changing, but it should have never been the focus, and they should not have been instant friends with the night elves while so far removed from Stormwind and other humans.

9) Don't depower the Aspects. First off, the whole Age of Mortals thing was bullshit because the expansion right after has some Celestial animal gods decide everything for us anyone. Secondly, I like the idea behind the Aspects and Dragonflights. Have them involved in things, but don't suddenly decide to knock out their powers and shit. They didn't even really get to do much in WoW or the expansion. They didn't even really save the world before suddenly getting depowered - the Old Gods are still fucking out there, you are failing the Titan's plans for you and let the whole world right proper fucked.

10) Actually use an Old God. For all the threats and talk of Old Gods in Cata, they weren't really seen beyond some hentai tentacles with holes in the ground and some random bosses in Dragon Soul. An actual appearance by an actual Old God in some capacity would have been nice.

11) A better final raid than Dragon Soul. I don't know what you could have done, but anything would have been better. Firelands was actually pretty good though. I think the final raid should have had us fighting Deathwing, but he shouldn't have been a final boss. Maybe beat him down and he's got to run away again to heal, but not sure if he should have died. I would have preferred if we had gotten to fight N'zoth as a final boss (we've never had an Old God as a final boss), maybe within a vastly corrupted Titan facility. What I'm trying to say is, Titan facility and Old God raid tiers tend to go down extremely well with the fanbase, so why not end an expansion with one?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-19-2016, 06:40 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Give Worgen a questing experience that's on par with Goblins. Actually give them a massive hub that's similar to how Goblins got Bilgewater Harbor in Azshara. You can do that by either giving them more presence in Darkshore or in Duskwood, I honestly don't care either way but the bottom line is the treatment between both races was nothing short of lopsided.

And cut back the jokes on a few zones by about 25-50%... or if you're going to try for humor at least make it natural to the zone and make its purpose to alleviate some of the drama of the overall zone storyline rather than disrupt the feeling of it entirely.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-19-2016, 06:50 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,009

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Give Worgen a questing experience that's on par with Goblins. Actually give them a massive hub that's similar to how Goblins got Bilgewater Harbor in Azshara. You can do that by either giving them more presence in Darkshore or in Duskwood, I honestly don't care either way but the bottom line is the treatment between both races was nothing short of lopsided.

And cut back the jokes on a few zones by about 25-50%... or if you're going to try for humor at least make it natural to the zone and make its purpose to alleviate some of the drama of the overall zone storyline rather than disrupt the feeling of it entirely.
Interestingly, I believe they said in one interview around Cata's release that the lopsided-ness was intentional, as they feared worgen would be more popular based on being werewolves alone, so they put more effort into goblins so that people would want to play them too.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:03 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

Eternal
DerpiusMaximus's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,635

Default

I forgot to add:

12) to 99) Fuck Uldum and fuck Blizzard too.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:32 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

Elune
Frostwolf's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,441

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Interestingly, I believe they said in one interview around Cata's release that the lopsided-ness was intentional, as they feared worgen would be more popular based on being werewolves alone, so they put more effort into goblins so that people would want to play them too.
They were kinda right. There's way more people playing worgen than there are goblins.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:35 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Admin
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,968

Default

Goblins, pre-WoD, were the best lookig race, so everyone who has none is a fool and lacking in good taste.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:42 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

Eternal
DerpiusMaximus's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,635

Default

It's small wonder that people played the worgen over the goblins. Yes, the worgen had the werewolf factor, but the goblins were just so... boring. Brand new cartel with no backstory, no interesting characters, a non-existent and utterly uninteresting racial leader, not even a faint connection to the Horde, and completely played for laughs.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-19-2016, 08:21 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Goblins, pre-WoD, were the best lookig race, so everyone who has none is a fool and lacking in good taste.
I have one that's level 3, does that help me dodge the bullet?

I do agree Goblins have story issues as well and their concept is overall not as appealing, though I do still think they came out exactly as Blizzard announced their intentions with them. Worgen are lacking a unique niche or a solid direction in their own respective faction but Legion and HotS look like they're trying to put them back on the right track.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-22-2016, 07:18 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

Elune
Exxile87's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One nation, under Bloo
Posts: 7,656
BattleTag: Exxile87#1525
Send a message via AIM to Exxile87 Send a message via Yahoo to Exxile87

Default

I'd break Cataclysm into five major content patches that, when all added together, tell a cohesive and compelling story. Keep in mind, this is the first attempt at a rewrite of WoW lore that I've made in years and I am a bit rusty.



Patch 4.0: The Cataclysm

Right out of the gate, the world changes. The Cataclysm rocks Azeroth and no one knows why. Volcanoes erupt, earthquakes decimate zones, places shatter, the Elements are in massive upheaval, and nature is just wrong. We get the Nightmare leaking out into the real world, corrupt and pissed off elementals attacking randomly, both the Horde and the Alliance begin to go to war for resources. The worgen appear claiming that a dark cult caused it all, while the goblins say it was Deathwing. No one knows for sure, but something clearly happened.

Thrall goes to the Earthen Ring and they cannot contact the Elements, so they elect a Shaman from among their ranks to become the Farseer and go to Outland to speak with the Elements there. They elect a random no name that we will see be built up over the course of the expansion. Thrall is too much a symbol of the Horde and makes no sense as a neutral party. This new Farseer is, say, a male Dwarf named...Sig Stonelager. Stonelager goes to Outland and we don't see him until 4.1 when he returns.

The main raid for 4.0 is Gilneas. The Forsaken want it for resources, but also they want to see what this mystery cult is up to and try to glean some new magical shit from them. The whole world now knows about their plague thanks to the Wrathgate, so they need a new secret weapon. The Alliance sees Gilneas as their territory and Varian has a bone to pick with Genn. He wants to prove that Greymane was wrong all those years ago and that the Gilneans have always needed the Alliance to pick up for them.

The raid itself reveals that the Twilight's Hammer summoned something into Azeroth that triggered the Cataclysm, but they weren't alone in this. The players fight against cultists, the opposing faction, and towards the end, chromatic dragons with Old God corruption. The final boss is Cho'gal, who morphs into his "fel form" and escapes before he can be killed. His smart head says "He'll be so disappointed at this failure!" as he flees. Because who doesn't love a good round of the pronoun game?

Patch 4.1: On Death's Wings

Rhonin and the Dalaran council have been hard at work reestablishing the ley lines in Northrend. They've had wild success thanks largely to Meryll Felstorm and Med'an. Med'an is concerned about the Twilight's Hammer being involved with the Cataclysm, so he assembles a neutral task force to investigate the things recovered from the raid in 4.0. He discovers a base in Silithus and many mentions of Deathwing. The task force (along with the players) build a garrison in Silithus and begin fighting the TH forces there.

Cho'gal reappears and he sacrifices himself to summon a revitalized C'thun at full power. Med'an and his task force are wiped out by the Old God. As a last act of power, Med'an teleports the players to Dalaran. Upon learning of his death, Meryl reconvenes the Council of Tirisfal to begin the assembling of a mage army to battle the Twilight's Hammer.

Meanwhile, Sig Stonelager returns from Outland with bad news, but also a newfound level of serious kickass shamanistic power. While he was learning from the Furies in Nagrand, Deathwing and his Black Dragons began spilling forth from Deathwing's Lair and they've been upgraded. The Chromatics from 4.0 were Old God blessed blacks and Deathwing is their champion. Stonelager is back on Azeroth to kick some dragon ass. The Earthen Ring sees Deathwing as the main enemy now, and we have our two player factions established: The Army of Tirisfal and the Earthen Ring. The Horde and Alliance have slowly moved away from the faction war as the world has descended further into chaos. In my game, there have been periodic elemental invasions, TH attacks, corrupt black dragon raids on major cities, and just general fuckingswith of the world. There's no time to fight each other; the whole planet is going to shit.

The main raid of this patch is a three parter; the first part is in Silithus and focuses on helping the Army of Tirisfal stem the tide of Old God corruption. They kill the Shade of Cho'gal and blind C'thun, sending him back into his slumber, but not banishing him. Meryl Felstorm is gonna keep watch.

The second part takes the raid to the Maelstrom, where Stonelager and the Earthn Ring have finally connected to the elements and have opened a portal to Deepholm. Deathwing is attacking the World Pillar and we have to stop him. Deathwing is in his human form and after killing off a chunk of his forces, the raid confronts him. He transforms into his chaotic Old God dragon form and decimates the Pillar before laughing maniacally and twirling his tentacle mustache before leaving. New waves of earthquakes rock Azeroth. Stonelager and the Earthen Ring say they can fix the damage but that's their problem. The raid must move on to the third and final act, Ragnaros. I know that seems out of the left field, but the destruction of the World Pillar broke the barrier between planes and now the chaotic elements are raging.

Ragnaros is defeated, and as he dies the raid hears a distant rumble, like laughter, but only if laughter can sound like a death threat. What could it be?

It's Therezane. Therezane is getting ready to fuck shit up.


That's all I feel like writing right now. I need to do a little reading before I move forward.
__________________
Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-22-2016, 07:21 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

Arch-Druid
Ol'Yoggy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,390

Default

Much as I personally dislike Ganishka he talks sense about warcraft in some areas. He made the point Al'Akir should have been the big bad of Uldum, and how the mysteries should have been emphasized. Maybe we can uncover more of Uldum (such as find that maybe the titans were trying to cure the curse of the flesh. The heroes ultimately rework it so that they can sever the old god's bond, thereby making it possible to waste them without blowing the earth to hell.

I was thinking that

Patchh 4.0: Initial event: We start out with Grim Batol and Twilight Highlands. We take out Cho'gall but the Twilight Hammer is still active.

Patch 4.1

Mount Hyjal: Big Bad is Ragnaros, and the Raid is the Firelands where we follow him and take him down.

Uldum: Some dungeons, but the Big Bad is Al'Akir. Throne of the Four Winds is the Raid.

Vash'jir: Thanks to Goldenyak I'm fine with the cliffhanger. It sets up the Naga expansion

Deepholme: Trying to heal some of the damage is a nice idea, and Therazane is supposed to be one of the nicer elements so having her defy her dark masters is a nice touch.



Here's a thought. In order to undo the curse of the flesh, they need a sample from the Old God who made the curse of the flesh aka He Who Shapes. In order to get a sample they travel into the future or past, and fight the old god. It would allow us to fight one of the big bastards at their peak rather than in their jails.

Unlike others I think Med'an is workable. Give him flaws (He's unsure of himself, struggles with the responsibility) and develop him. He grows alongside the main player.

Last edited by Ol'Yoggy; 01-22-2016 at 07:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-22-2016, 08:05 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

Elune
Mertico's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,261

Default

I would have made Uldum a conflict between Tanaris Humans and Sand Trolls.

Also, phasing their greatest tech which they never use. The lack of 'endstates' for the zones is seriously confusing.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-22-2016, 09:02 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpiusMaximus View Post
3) Break the zones in a more limited mannerl; make it a focus but not the only focus. One problem with the expansion was leaning too hard on "EVERYTHING HAS EXPLODED ALL AROUND YOU" and a lot of zones lost a lot of their luster and beauty as a result. This is just annoying and actually make you resent the changes. The better idea, in my opinion, would be to really only heavily impact one part of only a handful of zones. Otherwise, you can change out mobs in other places where it makes sense for elemental or Twilight bases or enemies. More importantly I think, it's important to show the effects of the Catacylsm not in terms of zone damage but overall impact and changes it's caused in other ways. However, some zones like Desolace or Thousand Needles did need a face life in other ways - but I think a chunk of Deepholme
Maybe preserve the vanilla world and make Cata world a separate world. Maybe even give Cata vanilla zones several different versions to show story progression.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-23-2016, 03:45 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

Elune
Drusus's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Greymane's Offensive
Posts: 8,699

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
I would have made Uldum a conflict between Tanaris Humans and Sand Trolls.
I actually was enjoying Uldum until the Tol'vir quests ended. Even Le Not-Indeyana was pretty tolerable up until the point he became the focus, even if I'd still replace him with Brann.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cataclysm, revisionism

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.