Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-16-2007, 11:34 AM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

Arch-Druid
Flamestrider's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,070

Default

Quote:
Luke later said it was 25.000 like i said earlier, Flame.
Sorry, I must have missed that.

Well, fair enough. Then there are fewer than 100,000 humans in Azeroth. My point still stands.
__________________
Many thanks to handclaw for his amazing rendition of Kargath Bladefist, which is now my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Darkwind Darkwind is offline

Arch-Druid
Darkwind's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,769
BattleTag: DrunkenPanda#1589

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
Sorry, I must have missed that.

Well, fair enough. Then there are fewer than 100,000 humans in Azeroth. My point still stands.
I'll concede the point, Flame. We'll leave the population and landmass size of Azeroth as a mystery.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 02-16-2007, 05:39 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

Arch-Druid
Flamestrider's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,070

Default

I'm sorry if I seemed a bit anal about this stuff in my earlier posts. It's just that it really seems like some RPG writer just pulled these numbers out of his ass. The Warcraft RPG is supposed to be an cannonical source of lore, and it upsets me to see that so little thought went into some elements of its creation.
__________________
Many thanks to handclaw for his amazing rendition of Kargath Bladefist, which is now my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 02-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Yuber8900's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,660

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
I'm sorry if I seemed a bit anal about this stuff in my earlier posts. It's just that it really seems like some RPG writer just pulled these numbers out of his ass. The Warcraft RPG is supposed to be an cannonical source of lore, and it upsets me to see that so little thought went into some elements of its creation.
Little thought? Didn't they just piece together manual cut outs and random numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 02-16-2007, 06:21 PM
Vicious Vicious is offline

Eternal
Vicious's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,824

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
I'm sorry if I seemed a bit anal about this stuff in my earlier posts. It's just that it really seems like some RPG writer just pulled these numbers out of his ass. The Warcraft RPG is supposed to be an cannonical source of lore, and it upsets me to see that so little thought went into some elements of its creation.
Not at all, of all things you complained since you joined so far this one is by far the most normal IMO, i wasn´t trying to discredit you or anything when i talked about Stormwind´s numbers, i just wanted to clear that one subject for you to try to avoid even more confusion to the guess of Azeroth´s general population.

Anyway, like Yubber, said i don´t think any real thought was put into it and they just put random numbers there.
__________________

Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

Loremaster
Kenzuki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Gates of Twilight
Posts: 9,954

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drirlake
This alone proves that the PRG books are so fucked up that they can't be trusted as a source of canon lore.

Well, guess we can count Eonar, Gol'ganneth, and Aggramar as non cannon then. Seeing as how in the RPG books it's the only place they are mentioned....Guess where we first found out Illidan was alive? that's right, RPG books.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 02-16-2007, 07:07 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Yuber8900's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,660

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenzuli
Well, guess we can count Eonar, Gol'ganneth, and Aggramar as non cannon then. Seeing as how in the RPG books it's the only place they are mentioned....Guess where we first found out Illidan was alive? that's right, RPG books.
We never had any proof Illidan was dead in the first place.

Sure he had a large gash in his chest and lying in a pool of blood but he was still moving when Arthas left him there.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:30 PM
Vicious Vicious is offline

Eternal
Vicious's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,824

Default

The RPG is as good as the Enciclopedial in the oficial WoW page (and that enciclopedia is full of mistakes by the way) and any other Lore source for that matter.

Nearly *every* source of Warcraft lore has mistakes here and there, but that doesn´t mean we should discredit the whole work, we first found out about the Elemental Lords in the RPG, we learned the last name of Arthas there, we found out that Illidan was still alive from them too.

Quote:
We never had any proof Illidan was dead in the first place.
Everybody assumed that he was Yubber and you know it.
__________________

Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:56 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Yuber8900's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,660

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentle
The RPG is as good as the Enciclopedial in the oficial WoW page (and that enciclopedia is full of mistakes by the way) and any other Lore source for that matter.

Nearly *every* source of Warcraft lore has mistakes here and there, but that doesn´t mean we should discredit the whole work, we first found out about the Elemental Lords in the RPG, we learned the last name of Arthas there, we found out that Illidan was still alive from them too.



Everybody assumed that he was Yubber and you know it.
Hey I never once assumed he was dead, even back before scrolls was up.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 02-17-2007, 08:49 AM
Creative Creative is offline

Arch-Druid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In a mailbox near you!
Posts: 1,923

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuber8900
Hey I never once assumed he was dead, even back before scrolls was up.
Well, it is easy to say so now. :p
__________________
CRY MICH EIN RIVER!
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 02-17-2007, 08:54 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


Timolas's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Malta
Posts: 12,475
Send a message via MSN to Timolas

Default

Mage doesn't lie, he just doesn't say the truth.
__________________
There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 02-17-2007, 11:48 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

Elune
Kerrah's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 11,000

Default

"It's not lying, its just saying untrue things!"

Anyways, I still think they retconned him being dead for $ and added the sound file in a patch.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 02-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Wulfang Wulfang is offline

Eternal
Wulfang's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Portugal
Posts: 3,533

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah
"It's not lying, its just saying untrue things!"

Anyways, I still think they retconned him being dead for $ and added the sound file in a patch.
Well Kerrah, that'd be kinda hard as I have the original version of TFT, never downloaded any patch and that sound file where Arthas tells Illidan to go to another world and never return is in my game.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 02-17-2007, 01:49 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

Elune
Kerrah's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 11,000

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfang
Well Kerrah, that'd be kinda hard as I have the original version of TFT, never downloaded any patch and that sound file where Arthas tells Illidan to go to another world and never return is in my game.
...they also hired you to tell me this.

Its a conspiracy! Nothing is too far-fetched!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-18-2007, 02:27 AM
Creative Creative is offline

Arch-Druid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In a mailbox near you!
Posts: 1,923

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfang
Well Kerrah, that'd be kinda hard as I have the original version of TFT, never downloaded any patch and that sound file where Arthas tells Illidan to go to another world and never return is in my game.
I have that soundfile aswell, but Blizzard removed it from the mission itself.
I belive it said something like:

"You are a pitiful creature, Illidan. Leave this world and never return, but if you do, I will be waiting."

I took that from the memory, so it might be wrong.

So, it more or less says Arthas left him alive. But, Blizzard removed it, so we might never know what they were thinking about Illidan.
__________________
CRY MICH EIN RIVER!
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-19-2007, 12:59 PM
Doomsday Doomsday is offline

Ranger
Doomsday's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 347

Default

I for one thought that Illidan died.

as a last note on the population thing, the nations of Azeroth shouldn;t be compared to the middle ages. Many of them should be considered at the level of the agricultural evolution.
__________________
-I tread the path of Righteousness. Though it be paved with broken glass, I shall walk it barefoot; though it crosses rivers of fire, I will pass over them; though it wanders wide, the light of the Emperor guides my step.

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-19-2007, 01:09 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


Timolas's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Malta
Posts: 12,475
Send a message via MSN to Timolas

Default

I thought Illidan died. I mean honestly, it's the last battle, possibly of the series since I didn't know of WoW, and Illidan is just cut down and is lying there motionless in the snow. Made sense to me that he was dead.

Arthas sparing him makes little sense really. Just means there's a chance he'll come and try to fight him again, and even if he wins again, it means a loss of resources, and a potential danger.
__________________
There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:00 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

Loremaster
ScytheRexx's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,490

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas
Arthas sparing him makes little sense really. Just means there's a chance he'll come and try to fight him again, and even if he wins again, it means a loss of resources, and a potential danger.
Its because he knew that allowing him to live in his shame would do more damage to Illidan then simply giving him the peace of death. It makes sense in the mind of Arthas, who is all about humiliating his opponent rather then simply defeating them. He humiliated Illidan, and he wants him to live with that knowledge till the end of his days.

As we can see, he was very successfully, as the act drove Illidan insane.

The Lich King does not worry about Illidan coming back to attack him, as he has grown much greater in power and any fight they did have would be like knocking away a fly. Even with the Blood Elves and Naga still on his side, it would not be enough by itself to even dent the Scourge, not anymore then the other factions on Azeroth.

The Lich King is more worried about the Horde and Alliance teaming once agian to try and defeat him, since even though he knows he would win such a conflict, he knows someone like Kil'jaeden would be waiting for a sign of weakness to strike him while the Scourge is weak fighting the other powerhouses of Azeroth.

Last edited by ScytheRexx; 02-19-2007 at 02:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:15 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


Timolas's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Malta
Posts: 12,475
Send a message via MSN to Timolas

Default

It's not Illidan, Kael or Vashj that's the issue. It's the Legion he might bring with him. =P
__________________
There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:55 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

Elune
Kerrah's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 11,000

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx
Its because he knew that allowing him to live in his shame would do more damage to Illidan then simply giving him the peace of death. It makes sense in the mind of Arthas, who is all about humiliating his opponent rather then simply defeating them. He humiliated Illidan, and he wants him to live with that knowledge till the end of his days.

As we can see, he was very successfully, as the act drove Illidan insane.
Yeah, but it failed since Illidan's mind just reformed the events to repair his broken Ego.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 02-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Rebirth Rebirth is offline

Sentinel Queen
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 984
Send a message via AIM to Rebirth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah
Yeah, but it failed since Illidan's mind just reformed the events to repair his broken Ego.
Failed or ultimately victorious? The man whom he spared and wished to humiliate has lost his mind because of the sheer amount of humiliation and embarassment that comes from him still being alive.

I'd say Arthas won in totality and in a far greater way then he could ever have imagined.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:19 PM
Beowulf Beowulf is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Beowulf's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 223

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx
The Lich King is more worried about the Horde and Alliance teaming once agian to try and defeat him, since even though he knows he would win such a conflict, he knows someone like Kil'jaeden would be waiting for a sign of weakness to strike him while the Scourge is weak fighting the other powerhouses of Azeroth.
I don’t friggin think so. If thee entire Horde and the Alliance teamed up, they would crush the scourge.

Magni, Valen, Thrall, Sylvanas,Varimathras,Vol'Jin, Tyrande, Staghelm, Malfurion, Cairne, Lor'Themar, Rommath, Lady Liadrin, Jaina Proudmoore, Benedictus, Bolvar Fordragon, Gelbin Mekkatorque, not even to mention there is not one but two Naaru on Azeroth now.I wont even get into the new forces on Outland

In fact it would be in the Lich kings best interest to keep the horde and alliance fighting each other.
__________________
"Good ash, bad ash, who cares im the guy with the gun."
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:39 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

Loremaster
ScytheRexx's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,490

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I don’t friggin think so. If thee entire Horde and the Alliance teamed up, they would crush the scourge.
I am just telling you what Blizzard themselves said awhile back.

If the Lich King wanted to do it, he could sweep over the entire Horde and Alliance and destroy them both. The issue here, is that he knows doing such would weaken him, and his other more universal enemies would be given and opening to "single" him out, and destroy him.

This is why he is basically trying to build his defenses and some of his influence around Azeroth, even the "Scourge Invasion" was hinted to have a purpose that was not actually invading for conquest.

Quote:
Magni, Valen, Thrall, Sylvanas,Varimathras,Vol'Jin, Tyrande, Staghelm, Malfurion, Cairne, Lor'Themar, Rommath, Lady Liadrin, Jaina Proudmoore, Benedictus, Bolvar Fordragon, Gelbin Mekkatorque, not even to mention there is not one but two Naaru on Azeroth now.I wont even get into the new forces on Outland
Magni? Strong, I will give you that, but not as strong as the Lich King.

Velen? The guy has been running from Kil'jaeden for ages, and the Lich King is near Kil'jaeden in power.

Thrall? I respect Thrall like no one else, but he could not stop Archimonde and a small group of Scourge and Legion, let alone the entire force of the Scourge followed by the Lich King, who is just as powerful as Archimonde.

Sylvanas? Will be back under the Lich Kings control if she even got near him. His willpower could bring the entire Forsaken back under his control, even the Forsaken admit this, but lucky for them the Lich King does not feel like coming close enough to do it.

Varimathras? Sylvanas would just kill him when the Lich King took her over, like she would have done before.

Vol'jin? Vol-who?

Tyrande? Read Thrall.

Malfurion? If anyone could put up a good fight I imagine Malfurion would, too bad he is stuck in the Emerald Dream and his body sitting lifeless in his barrows really for a sword through the heart.

Cairne? Read Thrall

Jaina? Read Thrall

The Blood Elf leaders? What? They already got there asses kicked by Arthas, let alone the Lich King. They are lucky to even be alive.

Bolvar and Benedictus? Sorry but a priest standing around in a church and a muscle bound guy that was easily manipulated? No.

Mekkatorque? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

As for the Naaru, where are they on AZEROTH, as I have not seem them yet. You will have to point them out.

Even then, the only one that we know with extreme power, is A'dal. Other are seiging Illidan all the time, and not able to take him down, let alone the Lich King.

Quote:
In fact it would be in the Lich kings best interest to keep the horde and alliance fighting each other.
I can agree with this, but not for the same reasons. There is a reason the Horde and Alliance spend more time avoiding him then trying to invade Northrend, they know they are not powerful enough to deal with that threat.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 02-19-2007, 06:40 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

Arch-Druid
Flamestrider's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,070

Default

Leaders aren't everything. All of these characters are considered "boss" level in World of Warcraft primarily for gameplay reasons. In the case of some, such as Mekkatorque, we don't even know if they're skilled in any form of combat.

More significant is the fact that the Scourge likely has millions (I'm ignoring the RPG book numbers, for reasons already stated at length) of mindless minions. Realistically, even somebody like Sylvannas or Malfurion couldn't fight against armies of undead forever.
__________________
Many thanks to handclaw for his amazing rendition of Kargath Bladefist, which is now my avatar.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 02-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,026

Default

Especially when every dead person means another servant for the Scourge.

Quote:
As for the Naaru, where are they on AZEROTH, as I have not seem them yet. You will have to point them out.
Silvermoon and the Exodar? ;P

I dunno if the Lich King is all that powerful. He's just really dangerous. He has all of Arthas' fighting skill and sheer will, combined with Ner'zhul's cunning and skill at manipulating people.

So if it came to a war between a combined Horde/Alliance offensive against the Scourge, the Lich King wouldn't just walk out and go "LOL" and one-shot everyone. He'd usurp them. Play on their weaknesses. The people of Stormwind, the Draenei and Ironforge's hatred of the Orcs... the Forsaken and Blood Elves' hatred of the Human government...
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.