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Old 02-26-2007, 03:08 AM
yakashamonian yakashamonian is offline

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Default What's the big deal?

I have heard multiple groups of people complaining saying this is stupid that Illidan gets beat by 25 measly players =/

I mean do people not realize how powerful out characters are according to storyline?

We single handedly defeated major badasses. like umm Morgraine the guy who soloed I think 15000 undead without a weapon.

Ony and Neth, the son and daughter of deathwing.

Balnazzar, the strongest of the 3 dreadlords I can remember...

Ragnaros (even if he was only at like 1% his old power) he was still and old god, CThun, KelThuzad. And so many more. And I'm pretty sure only 1 person gets credit for doing this on your characters story line.

So you got like 25 Unbelieveable people going up against 1 complete badass. and they complain and say it's retarded because we "Slow down" Illidan
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:30 AM
yakashamonian yakashamonian is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakashamonian
I have heard multiple groups of people complaining saying this is stupid that Illidan gets beat by 25 measly players =/

I mean do people not realize how powerful out characters are according to storyline?

We single handedly defeated major badasses. like umm Morgraine the guy who soloed I think 15000 undead without a weapon.

Ony and Neth, the son and daughter of deathwing.

Balnazzar, the strongest of the 3 dreadlords I can remember...

Ragnaros (even if he was only at like 1% his old power) he was still and old god, CThun, KelThuzad. And so many more. And I'm pretty sure only 1 person gets credit for doing this on your characters story line.

So you got like 25 Unbelieveable people going up against 1 complete badass. and they complain and say it's retarded because we "Slow down" Illidan
Actually I can already see something I missed, technically I guess it's 1 person that gets in illidans way then... well anyway if you count groups of people of doing the work you and your allies have took down quite some impressive feats.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:31 AM
Beowulf Beowulf is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakashamonian
I have heard multiple groups of people complaining saying this is stupid that Illidan gets beat by 25 measly players =/

I mean do people not realize how powerful out characters are according to storyline?

We single handedly defeated major badasses. like umm Morgraine the guy who soloed I think 15000 undead without a weapon.

Ony and Neth, the son and daughter of deathwing.

Balnazzar, the strongest of the 3 dreadlords I can remember...

Ragnaros (even if he was only at like 1% his old power) he was still and old god, CThun, KelThuzad. And so many more. And I'm pretty sure only 1 person gets credit for doing this on your characters story line.

So you got like 25 Unbelieveable people going up against 1 complete badass. and they complain and say it's retarded because we "Slow down" Illidan
All those characters pretty much had no back story until WoW, except Kel'Thuzad.. And if you done the quest you know you don’t really kill him anyway. Illidan is a key character in Warcraft History. Allot of people like him, we conquered outland with him so to speak. I don’t want to see him die...There is so much more one could do with key characters besides killing them. I think Illidan still has a role to play against the legion anyway, why kill someone that could be the key on defeating the burning legion.....
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:02 AM
yakashamonian yakashamonian is offline

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Originally Posted by Beowulf
All those characters pretty much had no back story until WoW, except Kel'Thuzad.. And if you done the quest you know you don’t really kill him anyway. Illidan is a key character in Warcraft History. Allot of people like him, we conquered outland with him so to speak. I don’t want to see him die...There is so much more one could do with key characters besides killing them. I think Illidan still has a role to play against the legion anyway, why kill someone that could be the key on defeating the burning legion.....
Yes but you don't kill him you jut hurt him. It's like oh no 25 badasses "Hurt" Illidan this is uncalled for.

True none of these people had backstory before wow but umm I'd hate to break it to you, but neither did anyone else really.

When half the people shown up in WC3 that was such badasses there was no mention of them before.

Rexxar Thrall, the list goes on and on, it odesn't make them anyless powerful.

besides you kill of Kargath who was probably one of the most important warcheifs.

I could be wrong, but since he was the orc that protected Dentarg and slaugtered thousands with his ruthless skillz and such. and he dies according to storyline I think.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:30 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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People see killing plot-important characters by the hands of nobodies like players as WASTE. It's waste since it could be done much more epicly with an actual scripted fight with another lore-character.

In my opinion Mograine > Danath, so "WoW NPCs < RTS NPCs" is not an universal rule.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:33 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakashamonian
I have heard multiple groups of people complaining saying this is stupid that Illidan gets beat by 25 measly players =/

I mean do people not realize how powerful out characters are according to storyline?

We single handedly defeated major badasses. like umm Morgraine the guy who soloed I think 15000 undead without a weapon.

Ony and Neth, the son and daughter of deathwing.

Balnazzar, the strongest of the 3 dreadlords I can remember...

Ragnaros (even if he was only at like 1% his old power) he was still and old god, CThun, KelThuzad. And so many more. And I'm pretty sure only 1 person gets credit for doing this on your characters story line.

So you got like 25 Unbelieveable people going up against 1 complete badass. and they complain and say it's retarded because we "Slow down" Illidan
Excuse me, single handedly?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:01 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Quote:
We single handedly defeated major badasses. like umm Morgraine the guy who soloed I think 15000 undead without a weapon.
That was a special case.

He had a ridiculously powerful weapon.

That has never happened at any other time in WarCraft outside of like... the Rexxar campaign... and that's an exaduration.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:36 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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Quote:
Yes but you don't kill him you jut hurt him. It's like oh no 25 badasses "Hurt" Illidan this is uncalled for.
That's an opinion, at this point, and nothing more. You've all heard my spiel about this before, and I won't repeat it.

Also, lore-wise, it isn't twenty-five warriors. It's an army. In no other Blizzard game has the number of units used to accomplish a certain mission been consistently cannonical. Arthas led more than eleven soldiers against the Blackrock camp near Strahnbrad. Therefore, in the lore, more than twenty-five warriors will have fought Illidan.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:46 PM
yakashamonian yakashamonian is offline

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Originally Posted by Flamestrider
That's an opinion, at this point, and nothing more. You've all heard my spiel about this before, and I won't repeat it.

Also, lore-wise, it isn't twenty-five warriors. It's an army. In no other Blizzard game has the number of units used to accomplish a certain mission been consistently cannonical. Arthas led more than eleven soldiers against the Blackrock camp near Strahnbrad. Therefore, in the lore, more than twenty-five warriors will have fought Illidan.
Opinion? No it was said by metzen I believe that you od not kill him you only get in his way. Nobody kills Illidan.
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Old 02-27-2007, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider

Also, lore-wise, it isn't twenty-five warriors. It's an army. In no other Blizzard game has the number of units used to accomplish a certain mission been consistently cannonical. Arthas led more than eleven soldiers against the Blackrock camp near Strahnbrad. Therefore, in the lore, more than twenty-five warriors will have fought Illidan.
That's just an opinion, again. NOWHERE, does it say that an army did anything at all.
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Old 02-27-2007, 04:58 AM
Tularis Tularis is offline

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While it is an opinion, Flamestrider has a point; in the Final Mission of Frozen Throne I managed to defeta Illidan with maybe only a handful of undead dying. I seriously doubt that happened in canon, and was probably closer to a few hundred; the same goes for any major battle in the Warcraft storyline really that we as a controller took part in via the RTS games. I wouldn't be surprised if the same goes for WoW, at least for people like C`thun and whatnot. Illidan might be a different matter, but then again we don't know how his death really comes about. Those 25 players might actually see him run off or escape something and leave "loot" behind.
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:21 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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In no other Warcraft game has the number of units used to complete a particular mission affected the lore at all. I beat the battle of Blackrock Spire using only dwarven demo crews. But in the lore, Turaylon led an entire army against the fortress.

If you can give me one good reason why this particular game mechanic should suddenly start affecting the lore in World of Warcraft, I'll reconsider my position.

Quote:
Opinion? No it was said by metzen I believe that you od not kill him you only get in his way. Nobody kills Illidan.
Metzen said "no important characters will die in World of Warcraft." Does this mean characters who were important to the story in the past? Or characters who will be important in the future? It's anybody's guess. So, yes, it is an opinion.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:09 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
Metzen said "no important characters will die in World of Warcraft." Does this mean characters who were important to the story in the past? Or characters who will be important in the future? It's anybody's guess. So, yes, it is an opinion.
Kargath was important, but we freaking 5-man him.
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:57 AM
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Flame, while your theory makes sense, my point is, don't state it like it is fact, because it isn't until it is written down.
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:03 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
In no other Warcraft game has the number of units used to complete a particular mission affected the lore at all. I beat the battle of Blackrock Spire using only dwarven demo crews. But in the lore, Turaylon led an entire army against the fortress.

If you can give me one good reason why this particular game mechanic should suddenly start affecting the lore in World of Warcraft, I'll reconsider my position.



Metzen said "no important characters will die in World of Warcraft." Does this mean characters who were important to the story in the past? Or characters who will be important in the future? It's anybody's guess. So, yes, it is an opinion.

No he said "No plot important characters will perminantly die"
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:57 AM
Dagren Dagren is offline

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Xaran Alamas told us Metzen told him.

And when you look at that thread at samods :
http://forum.samods.org/index.php?topic=8815.0

He says :
"No I don't mean not killable as in not implemented, I mean when I asked Metzen he said Vashj, Kael and Illidan would not be killable in their boss fights as much as just you get in their way."
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:00 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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We shall see Dagren. According to Xaran Metzen also told him the draenei were never shamanic either.
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:13 AM
Dagren Dagren is offline

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Good point ^^

I guess "we shall see" is the only answer to all of these threads discussing this subject.
And they are far too much. I think we can all agree on this :p
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:48 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenzuki
No he said "No plot important characters will perminantly die"
And that makes it any less vague how? We still don't know who will be important to the plot in future games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas
Flame, while your theory makes sense, my point is, don't state it like it is fact, because it isn't until it is written down.
Fair enough. In the meantime, I ask that nobody complain about how 25 people kill Illidan, or hurt Illidan, or anything else like that. Because that hasn't been proven either.
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:15 PM
Doomsday Doomsday is offline

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I am optimistic that they won't actually kill them, if not for the use in future lore than because they have huge fan bases and blizzard has been catering to the fans a lot since WoW came out.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:15 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Do you think Zul'Aman will be harder or easier than Tempest Keep? Since if it is published after The Black Fortree, it doesn't make sence if the high-end raiders don't have a reason to raid it.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellah
Do you think Zul'Aman will be harder or easier than Tempest Keep? Since if it is published after The Black Fortree, it doesn't make sence if the high-end raiders don't have a reason to raid it.
MC was out before ZG but people went to ZG anyway.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:36 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuber8900
MC was out before ZG but people went to ZG anyway.
Well, my point is, GIEF ZUL'AMAN!
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:48 AM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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I honestly don't really care if Kael, Vashj and Illidan die in the game. Because if they want them alive for another game they can just retcon the change like everything else.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:43 AM
Tularis Tularis is offline

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Raiders don't make up every aspect of the game; Zul`gurub was released to cater to the more casual frame of mind and Zul`aman appears to be 20man too (at least at the moment) so it wouldn't surprise me if its along the same lines. Harder then Tempest Keep but easier then Black Temple, or something along those lines. Thats how I see it anyhow...
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