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Old 01-21-2014, 06:44 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Default From another dimension! (Warlords of Draenor spoilers?)

Perhaps such a thread is premature, but I'd like to gauge some opinions from the minds of those who frequent these forums about the feasibility of playing a character from this past/alternate Draenor who has joined up with either of the factions who have come to combat the Iron Horde (See: Yrel and the Draenei joining the Alliance, or Durotan and the Frostwolves joining the Horde).

What I've been contemplating since the beginning of the expansion's reveal was specifically a Draenei who had never experienced the genocide at the hands of the Orcs, nor witness to the effects of the Red Mist, as a result of his life being saved by the Alliance who alter the course of history by ensuring Karabor does not fall. It's been an increasingly interesting concept to me, seeing as this Draenei would have not experienced any of the events between the Orcs initial attacks and now - the genocide, the Tempest Keep's arrival, the Exodar hijacking and subsequent crashing, joining the Alliance, M'uru being kidnapped, General Tiras'alan's death, Garrosh's new old Horde and the inevitable rebellion, anything. There's potential for a lot of character growth, including bringing him to the Draenor of today and learning of what had actually transpired, in my eyes.

What I am curious about is if anybody here has any qualms with the proposal, or if there is any immediate issues with such a character (barring any time travel hullabaloo established in the expansion which indicates those native to this other Draenor cannot come back to Azeroth with us). What do you think?
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:47 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
Perhaps such a thread is premature, but I'd like to gauge some opinions from the minds of those who frequent these forums about the feasibility of playing a character from this past/alternate Draenor who has joined up with either of the factions who have come to combat the Iron Horde (See: Yrel and the Draenei joining the Alliance, or Durotan and the Frostwolves joining the Horde).

What I've been contemplating since the beginning of the expansion's reveal was specifically a Draenei who had never experienced the genocide at the hands of the Orcs, nor witness to the effects of the Red Mist, as a result of his life being saved by the Alliance who alter the course of history by ensuring Karabor does not fall. It's been an increasingly interesting concept to me, seeing as this Draenei would have not experienced any of the events between the Orcs initial attacks and now - the genocide, the Tempest Keep's arrival, the Exodar hijacking and subsequent crashing, joining the Alliance, M'uru being kidnapped, General Tiras'alan's death, Garrosh's new old Horde and the inevitable rebellion, anything. There's potential for a lot of character growth, including bringing him to the Draenor of today and learning of what had actually transpired, in my eyes.

What I am curious about is if anybody here has any qualms with the proposal, or if there is any immediate issues with such a character (barring any time travel hullabaloo established in the expansion which indicates those native to this other Draenor cannot come back to Azeroth with us). What do you think?
I truly hope that AU Draenor (and it's peoples) is left where it belongs; in it's own little universe.

If AU characters come to the MU, I will truly consider giving up on this franchise altogether. It would be one, gigantic, lazy, asspull too far, for me.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:50 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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I truly hope that AU Draenor (and it's peoples) is left where it belongs; in it's own little universe.

If AU characters come to the MU, I will truly consider giving up on this franchise altogether. It would be one, gigantic, lazy, asspull too far, for me.
Yrel has all been but confirmed as coming back with us to Azeroth, as Metzen has been building her up in interviews as becoming, and I quote "a new major Alliance heroine" and will "take a leadership role among the Alliance". I think she is being set up to replace Velen when he inevitably goes full neutral, but that's a discussion for another time, I think.

I am curious, why do you feel so strongly against these AU characters? Is it just the Orcs that bug you? I honestly feel like if nobody comes back with us and the characters who are given character progression over the course of the expansion cease to exist in two years time, what's the point of this expansion at all if nobody's story progresses other than Thrall? As a Draenei player predominantly, I really hope that isn't the case. We could really use some more interesting characters on our roster.. our most notable is Maraad, and he's intrinsically tied to Med'an!
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:50 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
I truly hope that AU Draenor (and it's peoples) is left where it belongs; in it's own little universe.

If AU characters come to the MU, I will truly consider giving up on this franchise altogether. It would be one, gigantic, lazy, asspull too far, for me.
I agree, except I wouldn't quit WoW, I would just bitch about it here on SoL instead.

EDIT: Though, I should note, I wouldn't mind new and unique characters being integrated into the MU, but alternate versions of one we've already had should stay behind in AU Draenor.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:51 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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I agree, except I wouldn't quit WoW, I would just bitch about it here on SoL instead.
Could you answer the same question I've asked above? I'm awful curious to know what others feel about this. Haven't seen much discussion about it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:52 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Could you answer the same question I've asked above? I'm awful curious to know what others feel about this. Haven't seen much discussion about it.
Pretty much what I said in my edit. I wouldn't mind unique characters coming through, but, the old characters that have already died should stay in the AU, rather than taking any role in MU Azeroth.

They've fulfilled their story requirements, made their sacrifice. Bringing them back to the MU cheapens that.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:53 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Yrel has all been but confirmed as coming back with us to Azeroth, as Metzen has been building her up in interviews as becoming, and I quote "a new major Alliance heroine" and will "take a leadership role among the Alliance". I think she is being set up to replace Velen when he inevitably goes full neutral, but that's a discussion for another time, I think.
I take Metzen's words to refer more to her role in WoD. Unless I missed something, there's been no confirmation whatsoever of her fate post WoD. Hell, a large portion of this forum are pretty sure she's going to end up dead.

Quote:
I am curious, why do you feel so strongly against these AU characters? I honestly feel like if nobody comes back with us and the characters who are given character progression over the course of the expansion cease to exist in two years time, what's the point of this expansion at all if nobody's story progresses other than Thrall? As a Draenei player predominantly, I really hope that isn't the case. We could really use some more interesting characters on our roster.. our most notable is Maraad, and he's intrinsically tied to Med'an!
Mainly? It's fucking shocking levels of lazy writing, even by Blizzard's standards. "Oh we can just explain it away as due to being a AU character." - will become a running joke.

Worst of all, as I've said in other threads; it will be the mechanism to replace all the dead MU Orcs, and thus keep the Horde as this stupid faction where Orcs continue to dominate despite anyone with a grain of sense can see that's stupid and should've ended in MoP, if not earlier.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:53 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Pretty much what I said in my edit. I wouldn't mind unique characters coming through, but, the old characters that have already died should stay in the AU, rather than taking any role in MU Azeroth.

They've fulfilled their story requirements, made their sacrifice. Bringing them back to the MU cheapens that.
I'm inclined to agree. I'm hoping Durotan is killed off before the end of the expansion because I really don't think those relics of the past should be dragged back kicking and screaming to Azeroth.

Completely new characters, like Yrel, or some entirely new Orc characters however... I see a lot of value in them coming with us, honestly.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:57 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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I take Metzen's words to refer more to her role in WoD. Unless I missed something, there's been no confirmation whatsoever of her fate post WoD. Hell, a large portion of this forum are pretty sure she's going to end up dead.



Mainly? It's fucking shocking levels of lazy writing, even by Blizzard's standards. "Oh we can just explain it away as due to being a AU character." - will become a running joke.

Worst of all, as I've said in other threads; it will be the mechanism to replace all the dead MU Orcs, and thus keep the Horde as this stupid faction where Orcs continue to dominate despite anyone with a grain of sense can see that's stupid and should've ended in MoP, if not earlier.
I vehemently disagree with the assumption she is just going to die due to her likening to Joan of Arc, as I believe Dave Kosak meant her general, fantasized story rather than her gruesome death.. but that's been argued quite a bit already in the WoD thread, so I'm just retreading old ground.

It's definitely possible that the Orc's numbers will be boosted a bit, should Orcs come back with us to Azeroth, but I don't see it being to a significant degree. It's only the Frostwolf Clan, after all, and even then.. how many of them would want to come to a different dimensiontimelinething? It would definitely be lazy if they were doing this expansion only for that purpose, but I really don't see it that way. Blizzard hasn't been too concerned with populations increasing in numbers exponentially in the past for the purposes of the plot. Just look at the Darkspear Tribe!
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:59 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I think it's a moot point what the reason Blizzard kills Joan of Draenor for will be, but I'd be shocked if she doesn't die.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:02 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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I think it's a moot point what the reason Blizzard kills Joan of Draenor for will be, but I'd be shocked if she doesn't die.
I'd be shocked if she did die. The comparison made by Dave Kosak on the lore panel was so off-handed that it didn't strike me as meaning she'd die a grizzly death. Only that she was some inspiring badass heroine. I know people have very little to discuss about her, given how little we know, but focusing in on that one very small remark that was made so nonchalantly by Dave Kosak of all people seems a bit silly.

But, if she does die and we're stuck with only Maraad again, I'll be a very sad Draenei.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:04 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I think it's a moot point what the reason Blizzard kills Joan of Draenor for will be, but I'd be shocked if she doesn't die.
I hope she doesn't go out like Joan of Arc did.

I hope it's in a glorious battle to take down something particularly evil. Like Gul'dan. Or AU Archimonde. Or something other than other Draenei.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:05 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I'd be shocked if she did die. The comparison made by Dave Kosak on the lore panel was so off-handed that it didn't strike me as meaning she'd die a grizzly death.
Yeah, sure, whatever. She's still going to die. Maybe not because she's supposed to be Joan of Arc, but she'll die anyway.

Anyway, re: the topic I think a more interesting and generally plausible RP possibility is a Draenei or Orc character dealing with the fact that another version of itself exists in the world we're visiting.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:08 PM
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Anyway, re: the topic I think a more interesting and generally plausible RP possibility is a Draenei or Orc character dealing with the fact that another version of itself exists in the world we're visiting.
And then said character fucks his own AU Mother and becomes his own father.

And don't fool yourself; there will be RPers who actually DO that sort of shit. *shudder*

This is why I hate time travel wibby wobbly bullshit.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:08 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
I hope she doesn't go out like Joan of Arc did.

I hope it's in a glorious battle to take down something particularly evil. Like Gul'dan. Or AU Archimonde. Or something other than other Draenei.
I'd be okay with her killing Ner'zhul or Gul'dan, seeing as her main arc seems to be in Shadowmoon (from what we know thus far). Would be a shame for her to die that way, but c'est la vie.

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Yeah, sure, whatever. She's still going to die. Maybe not because she's supposed to be Joan of Arc, but she'll die anyway.

Anyway, re: the topic I think a more interesting and generally plausible RP possibility is a Draenei or Orc character dealing with the fact that another version of itself exists in the world we're visiting.
Also a possibility, but I'm not sure how well that would pan over without it being a timey wimey headache. I'd rather just have one version of the character exist with another being long dead. That'd be some pretty hard news to take - your own death, that is.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:08 PM
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And then said character fucks his own AU Mother and becomes his own father.

And don't fool yourself; there will be RPers who actually DO that sort of shit. *shudder*

This is why I hate time travel wibby wobbly bullshit.
You're preaching to the choir, my friend! Time travel is the worst plot device since macguffins!
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:09 PM
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I will be pissed to no end if they bring Alternate Universe characters to the main universe. Especially if they are the likes of Grom and Doomhammer. It's like wtf you bring back the biggest butchers of recent history and the Alliance lives happily ever after with the Horde?

I focus mainly on the Horde characters coming, because there isn't much for the Alliance to get out of this. The characters we will meet are almost all still alive in the main universe, so they wouldn't come.

All in all, WoD will only be a lazy copt-out with the sole purpose of tunning up the Horde if alternate characters ever reach Azeroth.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:12 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I originally wanted Draenei characters to be able to do a quest or two with themselves.

But then people told me my idea was stupid. And then Metzen said that AU characters won't meet their MU selves and vice versa.
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:13 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
I originally wanted Draenei characters to be able to do a quest or two with themselves.

But then people told me my idea was stupid. And then Metzen said that AU characters won't meet their MU selves and vice versa.
Well, Metzen and co. just don't want to dip their feet into the confusing implications of time travel and multiple characters. It's not impossible - they just don't want to handle the headache, themselves.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:14 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
And then Metzen said that AU characters won't meet their MU selves and vice versa.
Watch that end up a lie.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:16 PM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Watch that end up a lie.
Who would even meet themselves, hypothetically? Who in Warlords of Draenor who is around would have been alive and on Draenor in that era, and still alive (and relevant) now? Maraad? Saurfang? Maybe even Velen?
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:16 PM
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I truly hope that AU Draenor (and it's peoples) is left where it belongs; in it's own little universe.

If AU characters come to the MU, I will truly consider giving up on this franchise altogether. It would be one, gigantic, lazy, asspull too far, for me.
I agree.....
But you know what's coming eventually via AUs, right?

His name starts with an I, and he is every noob lore fan's favorite for some reason.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:18 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Watch that end up a lie.
Metzen would not back down on what he has told us

When has that happened?
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:19 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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I agree.....
But you know what's coming eventually via AUs, right?

His name starts with an I, and he is every noob lore fan's favorite for some reason.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:20 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Oh, Illidan was fine as long as his flaws and shortcomings were treated as real things. It's when he's completely lionized or hit with the evil bat that he stops being interesting.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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