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  #13451  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:59 AM
MyMindWontQuiet MyMindWontQuiet is offline

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I was looking at the Magni scenario's map a few hours ago and, the crater of Un'goro is completley flooded. It may just be because of terrain levels and default water though, but eh.

https://i.imgur.com/IofZ6Uj.png

Edit : here is the live version for comparison.

https://i.imgur.com/YGS0cSQ.png

Last edited by MyMindWontQuiet; 09-24-2017 at 10:05 AM..
  #13452  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:16 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The surface of the scenario map isn't something players were ever supposed to see so I wouldn't look into it at all personally. It probably is just default water level.
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
And the updated Ra-den model that was added at the same time.
I'm hopeful he and the rest of the keepers will show up in Silithus to manage the wound like they did the Well.

Last edited by Asterisk; 09-24-2017 at 10:18 AM..
  #13453  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:42 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Yeah, seeing the Keepers working together would be awesome.

I thought they'd go with us to Argus. When I first imagined the Argus patch, I thought we would arrive there via the Tomb of Sargeras portal, with Odyn and the all the Titanforged spearheading our invasion.

That hasn't happened, but it'd be cool to see them at least helping heal Azeroth.
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  #13454  
Old 09-24-2017, 12:33 PM
MyMindWontQuiet MyMindWontQuiet is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I'm hopeful he and the rest of the keepers will show up in Silithus to manage the wound like they did the Well.
I have given up on the Keepers of Ulduar ever doing anything for this planet. They have done basically nothing since we freed them.

- The Hour of Twilight, the literal end of the world as prophecized by their very creator, the liberation of the Old Gods, the second sundering of this world brought by one of the Aspects they blessed (through the titans), the activation of the re-origination device ? Absent.

- An entire, alternate universe pops up and the Legion tries to invade again ? Absent.

- The Legion's biggest invasion of Azeroth ever ? One of them gives a gun to a hero, two of them defend Ulduar (before one of them is kidnapped and has to be saved), and the rest are absent. And then nothing.

- The homeworld of the Legion manifests into our skies, and the very last bit of their makers - you know, the one thing Ra cherished among all others - are being brainwashed into serving the Legion ? Absent.

So a wound in Silithus ? Eh.
  #13455  
Old 09-24-2017, 01:10 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by MyMindWontQuiet View Post
- The Legion's biggest invasion of Azeroth ever ? One of them gives a gun to a hero, two of them defend Ulduar (before one of them is kidnapped and has to be saved), and the rest are absent. And then nothing.
Technically Hodir and Thorim both joined Odyn's Valarjar army as champions and are fighting in the war. The presence of Dvalen Ironrune as a champion suggests that while the Class Order presentation doesn't show it (it doesn't really show very much; female Valkyra/Shieldmaidens in the Skyhold don't even have voice files, and for an army of legendary dead vrykul there are depressingly few notable legendary dead vrykul), the armies of Ulduar seemingly joined forces with the Valarjar and presumably send whatever isn't needed for keeping the demons out of Ulduar to help with the war effort.

It's hard to say if any of it will amount to anything though; Argus pretty much acts like most of the stuff we did on the Broken Isles doesn't matter. None of our armies seem to accompany us there (and no, a sterile handful of Argus missions on the mission table don't meaningfully count,) and the small handful of NPC's who've come with us are predominantly there to just stand around the Vindicaar doing a whole lot of nothing while the AoL does all of the fighting. Even the inclusion of a mission table on the Vindicaar feels like an afterthought, since one can't really make reasonable use of it without going back to the Class Hall to recruit troops, so they may as well have just left it out.

It's frankly frustrating that the culmination of everything we've built throughout Legion was the Broken Shore, and that turned out to be a lackluster afterthought because the devs had already moved on to Argus. Damned near everyone we know has been demoted to be inactive spectators so we can wrap up over twenty years of WarCraft lore with an army of complete strangers instead. The Alliance and Horde in particular are literally sitting out the ultimate culmination of their own stories. Their literal origins are steeped in the Legion, and they're just nowhere to be seen during its downfall. Fifteen goddamned years of world-building toward this showdown with their primary mutual antagonist and they're both absent.

The true defeat of the Legion is something that should have never been committed to within an MMO environment. Due to mechanical limitations MMO's are really bad at portraying the scope and scale of war (much less the biggest demonic invasion ever), and WoW's no exception. In fact given its commitment to keeping system requirements low, it's more crippled in that regard than most.

Last edited by ARM3481; 09-24-2017 at 01:18 PM..
  #13456  
Old 09-24-2017, 01:12 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I was thinking about this.
Many naaru are of darker colors. Blue, purple, pink. A few were white. Xe'ra is probably purer, hence the golden color.

Maybe Elune, whose light is silvery, is a goddess because she lies in the balance of all forces?
I doubt that she can be considered a goddess because of this feat, since there are discipline priests and other beings that have shown ability to use both the Light and the Void. But it is a very good point, her light isn't the purest looking one and is often associated with the Arcane. And there's the concept of moon cycle from the TCG (it was the justifcation of night elven shadow priests) which allows one to to tap into Shadow via the dark side of the moon. It's also present in ToS with the sisterhood encounter and their platform that acts as a moon disc replica that rapidly changes its moon phases. These sisters combined shadowed moon powers with proper ones.
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  #13457  
Old 09-24-2017, 01:22 PM
MyMindWontQuiet MyMindWontQuiet is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Technically Hodir and Thorim both joined Odyn's Valarjar army as champions and are fighting in the war. The presence of Dvalen Ironrune as a champion suggests that while the Class Order presentation doesn't show it (it doesn't really show very much; female Valkyra/Shieldmaidens in the Skyhold don't even have voice files, and for an army of legendary dead vrykul there are depressingly few notable legendary dead vrykul), the armies of Ulduar seemingly joined forces with the Valarjar and presumably send whatever isn't needed for keeping the demons out of Ulduar to help with the war effort.
Oh I went through the Warrior campaign, I know. But, as I said, these were the only appearances the Keepers made in Legion.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Argus pretty much acts like most of the stuff we did on the Broken Isles doesn't matter. None of our armies seem to accompany us there (and no, a sterile handful of Argus missions on the mission table don't meaningfully count,) and the small handful of NPC's who've come with us are predominantly there to just stand around the Vindicaar doing a whole lot of nothing while the AoL does all of the fighting. Even the inclusion of a mission table on the Vindicaar feels like an afterthought, since one can't really make reasonable use of it without going back to the Class Hall to recruit troops, so they may as well have just left it out.

It's frankly frustrating that the culmination of everything we've built throughout Legion was the Broken Shore, and that turned out to be a lackluster afterthought because the devs had already moved on to Argus. Damned near everyone we know has been demoted to be inactive spectators so we can wrap up twenty years of WarCraft lore with an army of complete strangers instead. The Alliance and Horde in particular are literally sitting out the ultimate culmination of their own stories. Their literal origins are steeped in the Legion, and they're just nowhere to be seen during its downfall. Fifteen goddamned years of world-building toward this showdown with their mutual antagonist and they're both absent.

The true defeat of the Legion is something that should have never been committed to within an MMO environment. Due to mechanical limitations MMO's are really bad at portraying the scope and scale of war (much less the biggest demonic invasion ever), and WoW's no exception. In fact given its commitment to keeping system requirements low, it's more crippled in that regard than most.
I simply could not agree more. On all points. I feel like all the invasion points and all the World Quests didn't have to be either Illidari or draenei soldiers. There could have been at least world quests in the Antoran Wastes where Legionfall soldiers were present instead.

There's even a WQ where Lightforged simply get trampled by the Hounds of Sargeras and you have to click them to save em.

Worst thing is, it doesn't get better in the raid. There's only the Army of the Light there. The Legionfall will not be there to witness the Legion's fall.
  #13458  
Old 09-24-2017, 02:21 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I think a good way to fix those problems would be if Argus's invasions went to Azeroth zones instead. Like, instead of Bonich we get dropped off at Elwynn to help Anduin fight off demons, or instead of Cen'gar it's Dragonblight and helping the Wyrmrest Accord. They would functionally be the same as the current invasions, and they would be instanced copies of the maps so low-level players wouldn't have to deal with all their quest NPCs phased out. Mostly it would show why other people didn't come to Argus with us: They're busy defending Azeroth while we're the strike team.
  #13459  
Old 09-24-2017, 04:18 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiraser View Post
I doubt that she can be considered a goddess because of this feat, since there are discipline priests and other beings that have shown ability to use both the Light and the Void. But it is a very good point, her light isn't the purest looking one and is often associated with the Arcane. And there's the concept of moon cycle from the TCG (it was the justifcation of night elven shadow priests) which allows one to to tap into Shadow via the dark side of the moon. It's also present in ToS with the sisterhood encounter and their platform that acts as a moon disc replica that rapidly changes its moon phases. These sisters combined shadowed moon powers with proper ones.
My hot take: Elune was some sort of experiment by the titans in combining arcane, void and light energies.
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  #13460  
Old 09-24-2017, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
My hot take: Elune was some sort of experiment by the titans in combining arcane, void and light energies.
Hayir.
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  #13461  
Old 09-24-2017, 06:31 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I hope Elune is the Mother Constellar, which fits into her themes.

Also, constellars could be world souls that didn't grow a world around them near a star.
  #13462  
Old 09-24-2017, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiraser View Post
Magni and Brann near the Scarab Gong. It's for that scenario.

Magni, "If the Destroyer is alive, she's in great danger. No wonder she's so troubled..."

"Her nightmares... her greatest fears... we've got to help!"

Brann, "Don't worry, lass. We'll protect ye. We've got to!"
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Obsidian_Destroyer ?



"Destroyer of Dreams" lul
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  #13463  
Old 09-25-2017, 01:31 PM
GIPlayer GIPlayer is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Deathwing. Prepfoots were right.
  #13464  
Old 09-25-2017, 01:48 PM
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So, I was reading some old posts last night and this idea came to me: I think we will sacrifice our artifacts in order to do a "blood transfusion" to Azeroth's world soul.

Consider: we need to lose our artifact weapons, Blizzard said so before, and up until now there has been no news about how will come to pass... We know, however, that Azeroth will be wounded and, if I understood all the posts correctly (didn't listen to the audio files), she will to lose her "life blood", essentially creating a new Well of Eternity and endangering her life.

Isn't it convenient, then, that we as adventurers have these epic weapons imbued with the might of a thousand relics? We can effectively "disenchant" the weapons, turning all that power into raw arcane stuff and restore what Azeroth lost, or, alternatively, create some sort of torque to still the flow of blood and preserve the titan's life.

Of course, there are some problems with that, Xal'atath being the foremost one. Stuffing a huge blob of (sentient!) Void power into the world soul's core is emphatically something we don't want to happen... But what alternative do we have?
  #13465  
Old 09-25-2017, 02:11 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
But what alternative do we have?
For the record I do think using the artifacts is likely, but there's plenty of alternatives. Pillars of Creation, or the same sort of wards the keepers used on the first Well, or some Magni magic.
  #13466  
Old 09-25-2017, 03:35 PM
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what the fuck will we use if we lose our artifacts.

The logical thing is since the adventurers are part of azeroths blood because that is what has given us the ability to do the impossible as revealed in both chronicles chapter 2 page 87 of 296 and in the azeroth expansion we have after that green one.

Now as we know these 2 are connected. and we eventually learned that the players used the artifact power to drain the artifact, making it into a normal weapon, and gaining all those powerups.

As for the sword in the crater it was there if you dont remember up until the last patch of expansion 10 in the patch (10.1 if you dont remember, where Azeroth (also known as Elune, although elune was just a part of azeroth, but when azeroths got a big comet on it it turned that a chunk of azeroth was turned into azeroths moon thus making it into an external part azeroth, this also explained azeroths little problem as when the well of eternity called to the night elves as revealed in the Queens of Kalimdor expansion pack which was 12.0 if you dont recall when we had a war of the ancients where the sundering never occured and azshara in her lust for power made a pact with elisande to go to different timelines for conquest, now this was set in an azeroth where the orcs had invaded and all but there was no sundering, yet other events happened still somewhat chronologically, like the orcs invading first war and so on, except the 3rd war, the orcs met the taurens and formed the horde, but was met with a bigger night elf presence than in warcraft 3 and were thus enslaved/slaughtered/internment camp, until we free their clans and such) same with the alliance, Except for the draenei who crashed the exodar into nordrassil.

anyway i was getting out of hand now to get back to the matter the well of eternity called them but that was because it was part of an azeroth with amnesia or whatever it is called. i had a huge headache as explained in 12.5

Last edited by Gurzog; 09-25-2017 at 03:49 PM..
  #13467  
Old 09-25-2017, 03:58 PM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
For the record I do think using the artifacts is likely, but there's plenty of alternatives. Pillars of Creation, or the same sort of wards the keepers used on the first Well, or some Magni magic.
That was rhetorical. I am sure Blizzard could cough up hundreds of alternatives. Lorewise, there's minimal, not to say zero, reason for us to leave the artifacts behind, given their power and significance. It will only happen because of gameplay and design.
  #13468  
Old 09-25-2017, 06:37 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by GIPlayer View Post
Deathwing. Prepfoots were right.
That's my meme!
  #13469  
Old 09-25-2017, 09:27 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by GIPlayer View Post
Deathwing. Prepfoots were right.
Jesus! Arthas was some kind of Prophet when he said "Doesn't anyone stay dead anymore?"!

It's kind of obvious they mean Deathwing, but how?! He was atomized!
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  #13470  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:34 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Jesus! Arthas was some kind of Prophet when he said "Doesn't anyone stay dead anymore?"!

It's kind of obvious they mean Deathwing, but how?! He was atomized!
I..I am actually really not sure why people would be surprised Deathwing is still alive.

We literally have his jaw hanging in Stormwind despite being told he needs to be completely unmade
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  #13471  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:50 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I..I am actually really not sure why people would be surprised Deathwing is still alive.

We literally have his jaw hanging in Stormwind despite being told he needs to be completely unmade
Well, that jaw's arguably not really him. I mean, if chunks of his prosthetic parts remaining intact count as him still existing, then all of his old Adamantium plates scattered in Deepholm would count too, and on top of that the Scale of the Earthwarder would count as infinitely more solid proof that he still exists.

Nonetheless, being unkillable was one of his "things" in Cataclysm, and frankly the Dragon Soul was arguably just the Aspects looking for the biggest damn gun they could find that was specifically tailored to their powers. It's not like a titan or Keeper something showed up and told them "we know all about how Aspects and Old Gods work and this will totally get the job done." Hell, one could say that the entirety of the Aspects' struggles with the Old Gods and their minions have consistently come from a place of extremely incomplete information and a tendency to not even realize the Old Gods are involved (despite all of the clearly visible Faceless Ones and Twilight cultists running around.)

On that note, one has to wonder...so their powers were taken away to destroy Deathwing. Fine. But where did that power go? Did it really just cease to be? Time and again we find out that power doesn't just get obliterated when it's expended; it usually goes somewhere or becomes something else. Seems like something as powerful as the Dragon Aspects' magic had to have gone somewhere, in some form. And if such turns out to be the case, we might not like finding out where it ended up.
  #13472  
Old 09-26-2017, 01:03 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I mean, his jaw is still bleeding..
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  #13473  
Old 09-26-2017, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
On that note, one has to wonder...so their powers were taken away to destroy Deathwing. Fine. But where did that power go? Did it really just cease to be? Time and again we find out that power doesn't just get obliterated when it's expended; it usually goes somewhere or becomes something else. Seems like something as powerful as the Dragon Aspects' magic had to have gone somewhere, in some form. And if such turns out to be the case, we might not like finding out where it ended up.
Maybe it's what gave Heart of the Aspects life if it's canon?
  #13474  
Old 09-26-2017, 01:59 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I mean, his jaw is still bleeding..
Well, elementium's magical stuff. It reacts to intense elemental forces, and that jaw was previously bolted onto what amounted to a self-aware volcano with teeth.
  #13475  
Old 09-26-2017, 02:53 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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If we're giving up our Artifiacts, is it more likely that that happens at the beginning of the next expansion or the end of this one?

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I mean, his jaw is still bleeding..
Deathwing is secretly Odyn.
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