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  #5451  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:13 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
I've pointed out to him that he comes of way too much as an ass in private. I'm ok with him getting a slap on the wrist for excessive ass. Knowing Sarahmoo, she did not ban him for that, just used it as an excuse.
Seriously, go read.
On other boards he'd have been out of here 10 times over.

He doesn't even bother making any kind of argument, he just flat out insults people. Are we going to make that acceptable now? This place is already pretty hostile at times, there have to be limits.
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  #5452  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:16 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
Seriously, go read.
On other boards he'd have been out of here 10 times over.

He doesn't even bother making any kind of argument, he just flat out insults people. Are we going to make that acceptable now? This place is already pretty hostile at times, there have to be limits.
You're not rich on arguements either, it all narrowed down to "you're wrong and I'm right and somehow I'm an authority". His assish behaviour could warrant a temp ban or assing. Anything else is shitty.
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  #5453  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:21 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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'Assing' is so pointless. Punishments should mean something.
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  #5454  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:23 AM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Didn't he already get a time-out (with Korath, I believe) for similar behavior? It ain't like this is his first warning or something, he's been warned a few times and nothing really changed.
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  #5455  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:23 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
You're not rich on arguements either, it all narrowed down to "you're wrong and I'm right and somehow I'm an authority". His assish behaviour could warrant a temp ban or assing. Anything else is shitty.
Quite right, as I admitted myself I let myself get dragged into it. I didn't resort to flat out insults though.

Not a great moment of mine.
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  #5456  
Old 06-24-2014, 04:53 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished for aggressive talk, especially when it doesn't take much for him to say it, my issue is that he's a guy who often gets baited by PASSIVE aggressive behavior and patronizing. This forum is filled with it, and I'm tired of seeing this behavior skate by on the Internet. It either gets a pass, the other person joins in, or snaps and gets banned because they didn't use nice words to be a jerk.
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #5457  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:02 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished for aggressive talk, especially when it doesn't take much for him to say it, my issue is that he's a guy who often gets baited by PASSIVE aggressive behavior and patronizing. This forum is filled with it, and I'm tired of seeing this behavior skate by on the Internet. It either gets a pass, the other person joins in, or snaps and gets banned because they didn't use nice words to be a jerk.
To be fair, he did a lot of that himself, and he was usually the one baiting the hostile reactions by expressing himself in the tone that he used.

Yeah, we have a lot of passive aggressive talk, and a lot of misplaced sarcasm and patronizing. We're forum nerds, it's part of the deal. You don't see everyone else abandoning all pretense and throwing vulgarities at people, however.
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  #5458  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:39 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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The amount of hyperbole that shows up after someone is banned is amusing.
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  #5459  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:39 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
You don't see everyone else abandoning all pretense and throwing vulgarities at people, however.
When you play the game of trolls, you win or you die.
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Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #5460  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:43 AM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
When you play the game of trolls, you win or you die.
...so does that make him Ned?
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  #5461  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:57 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
...so does that make him Ned?
"The War of the Five Threads they're calling it..."

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  #5462  
Old 06-24-2014, 05:59 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
...so does that make him Ned?
That would make Sarahmoo as Cercei. I approve.
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  #5463  
Old 06-24-2014, 06:59 AM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Question:

Would you guys rather we unban Hammerbrew, or just ban everyone like him?
Unban him. For God's sake, all he did was use harsh language. Plenty of other posters (and mods, btw) do the same thing with no punishment. And there SHOULDN'T be a punishment. One of the things I like most about SoL is the amount of free speech we have here. It's not some thought police state like the official WoW forums.

It'd be one thing if Hammerbrew was following people around in different threads and harassing them. But he didn't. He'd get caustic and assholish in arguments, but that's it.

Even though I disagreed with him about 95% of the time on his politics, I think he was a valuable member of the forum, and it'll be a shame if he got permabanned for the ridiculous sin of harsh language.
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  #5464  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:17 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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If you guys didn't perma-ban a guy talking about genocide, or a guy making alt accounts after being banned, I don't think banning a guy for being a jerk is fair.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #5465  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:29 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
So we're banning people for offending a mods tumblr-sense?

Don't get me wrong Hammerbrew had really dumb and bad opinions but the appropriate response is ridicule, not banning.
I agree somewhat but let's be clear, his behaviour was a ban worthy offense in the rules.

I'm just not convinced it was deserving of a permanent banning, if that is indeed the case.
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  #5466  
Old 06-24-2014, 08:41 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
...so does that make him Ned?
I'd think of him more as one of the Cleganes, with Sarah as Brienne.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #5467  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Seriously, guys, there is only one solution. Send him to the Wall (reopen the Halls of Lordaeron)! There you go, problem solved! And send him Miffy too as he baited him and I don't like Miffy.

And calm down on Sarah. She tough she was in the right. (I am expecting something in return for taking your defense in the face of adversity, honorable moderator.)
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  #5468  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:36 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Seriously, guys, there is only one solution. Send him to the Wall (reopen the Halls of Lordaeron)! There you go, problem solved! And send him Miffy too as he baited him and I don't like Miffy.

And calm down on Sarah. She tough she was in the right. (I am expecting something in return for taking your defense in the face of adversity, honorable moderator.)
I certainly did not "bait" anyone. And Sarah did not ban him for disliking his opinion.
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  #5469  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:46 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
I certainly did not "bait" anyone. And Sarah did not ban him for disliking his opinion.
Yeah, you do all the time, and yeah, it kind of looks like she did.

It is rather telling that the few who support this ban obviously have strong differences in their political opinions with Hammerbrew, although there are plenty left of him that DISAGREE with the ban.

I'm the most transparent Admin in history, so, I'll not say anything behind closed doors that I won't say publicly - this looks pretty bad, as his latest "offense" was giving shit to Sarahmoo, who then permabanned him.

I don't have a problem with a mod slapping down an uppity poster who's being a deliberate dickweed - hell, Sarah works as hard as anyone to keep this place clean, and she ought to enjoy smacking down a fool every now and then. But perma-banning is a bit much. Give him a few days or a week or whatever to consider the wisdom of poking a mod with a stick, but anything more than that, and it starts to feel a bit too despotic for my tastes.
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  #5470  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:52 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Yeah, you do all the time, and yeah, it kind of looks like she did.

It is rather telling that the few who support this ban obviously have strong differences in their political opinions with Hammerbrew, although there are plenty left of him that DISAGREE with the ban.

I'm the most transparent Admin in history, so, I'll not say anything behind closed doors that I won't say publicly - this looks pretty bad, as his latest "offense" was giving shit to Sarahmoo, who then permabanned him.

I don't have a problem with a mod slapping down an uppity poster who's being a deliberate dickweed - hell, Sarah works as hard as anyone to keep this place clean, and she ought to enjoy smacking down a fool every now and then. But perma-banning is a bit much. Give him a few days or a week or whatever to consider the wisdom of poking a mod with a stick, but anything more than that, and it starts to feel a bit too despotic for my tastes.
So disagreeing with someone is apparently "baiting" now. Doesn't surprise me from you. I don't post to antagonize for fun. I express my honest opinion. If someone has an issue with that, they're welcome to start a dialogue. Unfortunately, some like Hammer express their distaste over an opinion with childish personal attacks and vulgar insults. If you want to propagate that kind of communication culture, feel free to.

I for one am merely pointing out that Sarah's reason for the measure is entirely legitimate, he was throwing around direct ad hominems left and right, and he really overstepped the limits of civilized discourse multiple times.

You may have an issue with my tone when I state things I believe to be facts. I do not, however, attack someone personally unless previously provoked. As already mentioned by me, I did give in and bicker with Hammer in that thread, which is my fault. I do not initiate these encounters.

And the reason for the measure has nothing to do with opinion either way. I've seen many of you throw around offensive and ignorant opinions left and right, and noone cares. Hammer is the only one who so rudely and combatively propagates his.
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  #5471  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:00 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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What? The fire started in the World Cup thread?

I mean I could be much more aggressive when arguing about soccer as well, but that was just...

I think you guys should contact him to see did he learn his lesson, then reduce the penalty.
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  #5472  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:02 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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What? The fire started in the World Cup thread?
Hey... *I* was ready to ban him for what he said about Sarah Palin over there... don't get me started.
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  #5473  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:03 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Hey... *I* was ready to ban him for what he said about Sarah Palin over there... don't get me started.
Show them that some people's feelings aren't more important than others Bolvar!
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  #5474  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:10 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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So, I've been around and I'll say this much.

It's understandable why he was banned but I'd think a permaban is far too excessive.

IIRC we've gone over with him before about how the way he says things has a habit of stirring shit up and it's pretty obvious he didn't really change much.

People who've had similar opinions as him have stated things in a more eloquent manner and the real problem was the way which he expressed things, not necessarily the content of it.

At the very least, put him timeout for a week so he can think on why he was banned but that's about it.
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  #5475  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:17 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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If only Hammerbrew wasn't being so unnecessarily aggressive, and if he weren't using foul language, then I would have said that this ban was unjustified. It still is, if it is permanent. I'd say that a temp ban would have been better, along with a strict warning to him not to swear. Calling someone clueless isn't that much of an insult in comparison to telling someone to 'f themselves with a rake', and that too, just because of disagreeing about football.

Because, in my honest opinion, there's nothing more aggressive and insulting then swearing. Swearing is a sign of rudeness, aggression, and immaturity, and swearing at someone simply because you disagree with them is something I'd expect from a immature teenager, not an adult who, apparently, is far older then most people here.

Last edited by CoDimus the Staunch; 06-24-2014 at 10:22 AM..
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