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Old 11-28-2018, 04:14 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I can't be a real liberal because I don't understand transsexuality. Still though, I think forcing someone in a dress to go to a public men's bathroom is kinda fucked up.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #57627  
Old 11-28-2018, 04:41 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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How is it not? Given how immigration (and the flow of human labor and capital) has been a natural process of participating in an international community of human beings for the past all of human history, it does seem extreme for a country or political union to ban immigration. And when we look at past attempts in American history of curtailing immigration from certain countries or regions, it became transparently clear that the populace that "mostly does not want to" were motivated by thinly-veiled racism and fear-mongering labor scares rather than any actual notions of morality or ethics. Most justifications for it usually are smoking guns and dog-whistle politics for the morally repugnant. That hasn't really changed.
You know he's Serbian, right? The former Yugoslavia used to be a thing until it fell into ethnic conflict and war. it shouldn't be surprising that outside our little bubble of Western civilization that is seen differently especially considering that said conflict happened within recent living memory.
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  #57628  
Old 11-28-2018, 04:45 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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The solution to ethnic conflict is ethnic intolerance?

I mean, I guess it's a solution, but in the past when people have tried to cleanse their lands of certain ethnicities it hasn't worked out all that well.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #57629  
Old 11-28-2018, 06:39 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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The solution to ethnic conflict is ethnic intolerance?
No?
It's more that maybe the reason some people don't want to bring in other ethnicities is because in this case,they're literally from a country that fell apart due to an ethnic civil war: AKA Former Yugoslavia. C9H20.

Maybe it would be better if they stayed separate? Can't go on about one brutalizing the other if they literally do not live around each other. The solution isn't to force it either, that would just make more of a mess.. If it was volountary that would be the ideal.
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  #57630  
Old 11-28-2018, 07:09 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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So you're talking about segregation.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #57631  
Old 11-28-2018, 08:21 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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The Alliance's three rules on faction conflict:
1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #57632  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:12 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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You know he's Serbian, right? The former Yugoslavia used to be a thing until it fell into ethnic conflict and war. it shouldn't be surprising that outside our little bubble of Western civilization that is seen differently especially considering that said conflict happened within recent living memory.
And? I live in Vienna. As the popular saying here goes, "the Balkans begin in Vienna."
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  #57633  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The Charlottesville terrorist has been sentenced to life in prison.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...65a_story.html
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  #57634  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:18 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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  #57635  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:31 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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So how about that wall.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #57636  
Old 01-10-2019, 05:47 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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So how about that wall.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Meanwhile, it looks like the welfare queens can't get their hand-outs due to the shutdown.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/every...222417790.html
Don't worry about the people that can't buy the product from those farmers, though. Someone else has that covered.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1NX1C4
Funny how that works, isn't it?
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  #57637  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:27 PM
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Nazja; 01-18-2019 at 01:52 PM.. Reason: Cause I am helpful.
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  #57638  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:53 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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What the hell is going on with American news lately?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-investigation

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rt/2623955002/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/19/u...-phillips.html

Quote:
This story is completely false. The kids did not seek the man out. The kids were not chanting "Build That Wall". The kids did not harass the man. The man and his group approached the kids at a bus stop and proceeded to play a drum in a kids face while another man told the kids that "You White people go back to Europe where you came from" Here is the actual video of him approaching the kids at the bus stop. https://twitter.com/mariajudy_/statu...804674048?s=19 Here is the actual video of the man beating the drum in the face of the kid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIG5ZB0fw1k
Here is the actual video of the man telling the kids that "You white people go back to Europe where you came from" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npX8...ature=youtu.be
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  #57639  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:49 PM
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...37186.html?amp

Theres like a dozen sides or povs to any story


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Amid claims online that Mr Phillips had himself participated in harassing the boys, another video shows the moment he arrived at the scene of the confrontation. The 64-year-old can be seen interposing himself between the two groups, ending a few yards away from both, before the students approach him and begin chanting.
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  #57640  
Old 01-24-2019, 09:26 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Not that I enjoy arguing against a position of someone that isn't here, but wasn't Hammer's idea that he didn't want immigrants from outside of Europe? I don't think he'd care two shits about letting French, Germans, or other folks with a similar enough culture (and skin tone lol) in. He specifically did not want to have middle-eastern or African muslims immigrate there, if I'm not entirely mistaken.

So his issues, it seemed, had not as much to do with immigration itself, but certain categories of people immigrating or fleeing to his island, because he thought globalism was ruining Europe or something along those lines. I call that "thinly veiled racism/bigotry", which I'd argue is pretty shitty in terms of morals.
Bit of a late reply, but had this open in a tab to answer later so here we are

As you don't like arguing against someone who isn't here I don't like arguing for them. But I can safely say that Hammer would not be thrilled in your theoretical scenario where half of France (even if they are only whites) chose to emigrate to the UK. It is about preserving the culture that has existed there for centuries, plus concerns about labor surplus driving down wages.

And I can also safely say that both Hammer and I agree that those two things are issues. It has become a killing of the sacred cow in the West to even acknowledge that people form different places with vastly different life experience are, well, different. Consequently wanting less or targeted immigration becomes the worst kind of bigotry. But it is obvious that a German, to use your example, would fit into the UK better than someone from Tibet. So if immigration is needed you want to try and get people who are as culturally compatible and less likely to disturb the cultural status quo as possible. So yes, culture, religion and even skin tone do matter for national unity and national unity is no laughing matter, you want people to trust each other and people most readily trust people who are like them in most respects, it is foolish to introduce disunity if you can help it so preferring some sources of migrants to others is not at all racist. Likewise if a country need lets say a 1000 engineers that year and nothing else it is under no obligation to accept random people coming. Mass-scale immigration only serves to drive down wages, good for the business class and their govt. toadies, less so for the native workers so lo and behold they are the ones most pissed.

Though I've quoted Annie this is also a response to Genesis.
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  #57641  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:18 AM
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Your response reminds me of late 19th century and early 20th century racism expressed in America towards various immigrant groups (e.g., East Asians, Irish, Italians, etc.). Similar arguments were made back then about "cultural compatability," and they were as racist then to make as they are now.
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  #57642  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:24 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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This conversation reminds me of this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...populated_and/

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No, not all immigrants were the same, and there were lots of tension between immigrants from different countries, different times, different classes, and different religions.

America didn’t really start off as an Immigrant country. The first colonies that were formed at Virginia and Massachusetts were formed in 1607 and 1620 respectively. Given that the modern-day USA was born in 1776, that’s 156 years of life in the continent, and enough for your grandchildren to naturalize in any country by today’s standards. Even by 1770 when Massachusetts was declared under martial law instead of more lenient taxing, most of the colonial leaders hoped to “reconcile with the British Government” rather than declare independence. By this time, the colonists weren’t colonists or immigrants anymore, but the people who were born on the east coast who built this country from almost scratch, including all the good and bad things that has happened.
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  #57643  
Old 01-25-2019, 01:05 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Your response reminds me of late 19th century and early 20th century racism expressed in America towards various immigrant groups (e.g., East Asians, Irish, Italians, etc.). Similar arguments were made back then about "cultural compatability," and they were as racist then to make as they are now.
Nonane is correct in the sense that it would be easier for a European to integrate into another European nation than it would be for someone coming from a vastly different culture. That sort of goes without saying. But that's not saying someone from one culture is incompatible with another. With some effort (from everyone involved) integration is possible no matter ethnicity or nationality.
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  #57644  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:15 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Roger Stone has been arrested. Here's the list so far:

Roger J. Stone Jr.
Longtime informal adviser to donnie
Obstruction of an official proceeding, making false statements and witness tampering Charged - Jan. 24

Michael D. Cohen
Donnie's former lawyer
Lying to Congress (pleaded guilty Nov. 29, 2018) Sentenced to 3 years in prison - Dec. 12, 2018

Richard Pinedo
California man who sold bank accounts online
Identity fraud (pleaded guilty Feb. 12, 2018) Sentenced to six months in prison - Oct. 10, 2018

George Papadopoulo
Former campaign adviser
Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with people he believed were working on behalf of Russians (pleaded guilty Oct. 5, 2017) Sentenced to 14 days in prison - Sept. 7, 2018

Paul Manafort
Former campaign chairman
Tax and bank fraud, false statements, being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, obstruction of justice Convicted of financial fraud - Aug. 21, 2018

Twelve Russian intelligence officers
Conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, identity theft, conspiracy to launder money Charged - July 13, 2018

Konstantin V. Kilimnik
Russian Army-trained linguist and associate of Mr. Manafort
Obstruction of justice Charged - June 8, 2018

Alex van der Zwaan
Lawyer who worked with Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates
Lying to investigators about conversations with Mr. Gates (pleaded guilty Feb. 20, 2018) Sentenced to 30 days in prison - April 3, 2018

Rick Gates
Former campaign adviser
Financial fraud and lying to the FBI Pleaded guilty - Feb. 23, 2018

Thirteen Russian nationals and three related companies
Conspiracy to defraud the U.S., conspiracy to commit bank fraud, identity theft Charged - Feb. 16, 2018

Michael T. Flynn
Former national security adviser
Lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador Pleaded guilty - Dec. 1, 2017

Drain that swamp.
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  #57645  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:13 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Nonane is correct in the sense that it would be easier for a European to integrate into another European nation than it would be for someone coming from a vastly different culture. That sort of goes without saying. But that's not saying someone from one culture is incompatible with another. With some effort (from everyone involved) integration is possible no matter ethnicity or nationality.
Yeah?
Jugoslavians are still perceived as lazy welfare immigrants since the Balkan Crisis and stigmatized as such. Same sentiment for Poles and Turks since the rebuilding.
When Spain had its economical crisis, it was the Spaniards who came here to steal our jerbs.

A lot of it is perception and thinly veiling white supremacy as national unity is utter horseshit.
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  #57646  
Old 01-26-2019, 01:29 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Yeah?
Jugoslavians are still perceived as lazy welfare immigrants since the Balkan Crisis and stigmatized as such. Same sentiment for Poles and Turks since the rebuilding.
When Spain had its economical crisis, it was the Spaniards who came here to steal our jerbs.

A lot of it is perception and thinly veiling white supremacy as national unity is utter horseshit.
It is a fine line, separating those who act for legitimate reasons and those who act out of hate. As you mention us Serbs face our own fair share of prejudice so I know. But nonetheless I think there are legitimate reasons to want to preserve your culture the way it is. I think the rejection of racism in the wake of WW2 has created this new right that isn't hateful but pragmatic but ofc it is not like the old strain has entirely died out so one has to be careful what they speak and whom they consort with.
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  #57647  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:35 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Nonane is correct in the sense that it would be easier for a European to integrate into another European nation than it would be for someone coming from a vastly different culture. That sort of goes without saying. But that's not saying someone from one culture is incompatible with another. With some effort (from everyone involved) integration is possible no matter ethnicity or nationality.
The problem, however, is that this compatibility argument is just dogwhistle politics. On the whole, I find this position incredibly suspect because it presumes that there is (A) homogenous, monolithic national culture and (B) that a national culture shouldn't or can't change naturally over time. And you can also see how this argument caters to the same sort bullshit alt-right "Great Replacement" rhetoric as well, especially the fear that somehow a nation's culture will be replaced by "outsiders." It's repeating Alt Right talking points disguised as sincere, rational, pragmatic concerns, though its positions are neither sincere, rational, nor pragmatic. I am not saying that either Hammerbrew or C9H20 are alt-right, which I sincerely doubt, but this sort of argumentation is clearly alt-right enabling while playing into and repeating their talking points.
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  #57648  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:08 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Yeah?
Jugoslavians are still perceived as lazy welfare immigrants since the Balkan Crisis and stigmatized as such. Same sentiment for Poles and Turks since the rebuilding.
When Spain had its economical crisis, it was the Spaniards who came here to steal our jerbs.

A lot of it is perception and thinly veiling white supremacy as national unity is utter horseshit.
By and large I'd say former Jugoslavians have integrated well into northern Europe by now, and aren't looked down upon in that sense. At least here in Sweden, judging from personal experience (I mean a lot of 'em are even joining the current bandwagon of hate against Arabs and Africans, and what's that if not a sign of a well-integrated foreigner?).

And in case they haven't, I guess it's because they have weird names, talk funny, don't celebrate Christmas on the correct date, often have a slightly darker skin tone and hair colour than the average ethnic Swede, and are just incompatible with our culture.
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  #57649  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:57 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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By and large I'd say former Jugoslavians have integrated well into northern Europe by now, and aren't looked down upon in that sense. At least here in Sweden, judging from personal experience (I mean a lot of 'em are even joining the current bandwagon of hate against Arabs and Africans, and what's that if not a sign of a well-integrated foreigner?).

And in case they haven't, I guess it's because they have weird names, talk funny, don't celebrate Christmas on the correct date, often have a slightly darker skin tone and hair colour than the average ethnic Swede, and are just incompatible with our culture.
We've been dealing with this since shortly after the founding of our nation. Every wave of immigrants has been "the one that will never integrate." The Germans, the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese (who actually did end up getting banned), etc.
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:28 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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We've been dealing with this since shortly after the founding of our nation. Every wave of immigrants has been "the one that will never integrate." The Germans, the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese (who actually did end up getting banned), etc.
Immigrants have been building America since before it was even a country. It's absurd to suggest otherwise. The continent was wholesale claimed by immigrants (manifest destiny?) Under- and un-paid labor is what made America prosper and have a ruling class educated and ornery enough to overthrow monarchy to begin with. The economic and political power that was largely built on that labor is what propelled the USA to it's current level of might and influence. And not at all to diminish all America's greatest accomplishments, I believe it elevates those accomplishments to acknowledge the under-sung work behind it.
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