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#801
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() He didn't come off as all that selfish in the Undead Campaigns TBH. Instead, he came off as driven to carry out his king's will even while he was weakening.
Last edited by Galdus; 08-03-2015 at 06:47 PM.. |
#802
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![]() Elune Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,786
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![]() Arthas sees himself as the only person both willing and able to stop a deadly threat to his kingdom. The degree to which that worldview approaches reality is debatable (especially if you only look at WC3, which I do in this thread), but this is why he is willing to do whatever he sees as necessary to save his kingdom.
As for Hearthglen: Uther and Arthas both seem to be misreading each other. Uther tries to compliment Arthas for holding out as long as he did ("I'm surprised that you kept things together as long as you did, lad."), while Arthas hears that as Uther thinking his defensive efforts were incompetent. Annoyed, Arthas tries to explain that he did the best he could with what he had("Look, I did the best I could, Uther! If I'd had a legion of knights riding at my back, I would've--"), which Uther reads as Arthas thinking he's deserving of even more praise ("Now is not the time to be choking on pride!"). Not helping is that Uther is stuck in mentor role and is condescendingly telling him he can't possibly "defeat a man who commands the dead all by yourself", despite Arthas having already taken down one of the scourge's leaders, as well as feeling the need to explain basic facts about fighting the undead ("The undead ranks are bolstered every time one of our warriors falls in battle") to the guy who's been leading the investigation against them. If anything, it seems to me like Uther is the one who should be watching his pride. Quote:
Well, yes. He's answering the questing "What's happening to you, Arthas?". It's generally considered proper to answer a question about yourself with an answer about yourself.
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#803
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Arthas was more chipper and/or showed more team spirit in TFT's Undead Campaign than in RoC's. I'm sure whatever spell was cast on Arthas wore off as Ner'zhul weakened.
Last edited by Galdus; 08-03-2015 at 07:16 PM.. |
#804
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![]() Site Staff - Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,988
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![]() Quote:
Uther is an experienced commander, leader, he has a right to take charge in this matter. Especially when the prince is raving about exterminating an entire city of people. It goes against everything the paladins stand for, and Arthas is just casually tossing out and demanding this obscene order. In the long run it was necessary, but Arthas clearly had no respect for the lives he was about to take at all. Quote:
Quote:
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"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were." |
#805
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Arthas missing control of his soul couldn't have been what made him serve Ner'zhul in TFT. Sylvanas and other undead in Lordaeron broke away and it was established in RoC's manual that Ner'zhul's rule of his undead subjects was dependant on him bring able to direct their souls.
Last edited by Galdus; 08-04-2015 at 01:34 AM.. |
#806
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![]() Site Staff - Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,988
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![]() Well Arthas had a direct link to the guy with Frostmourne, so Ner'zhul probably had some influence over him still. But I don't think his rule over Arthas was ever absolute.
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"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were." |
#807
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Ner'zhul had influence sure, but he was past the point of being able to just puppet him over to Northrend. He ended up depending on Arthas being a willing tool.
Last edited by Galdus; 08-04-2015 at 07:23 PM.. |
#808
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![]() Elune Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,101
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![]() Arthas killing Ner'zul in a dream battle (lol) was the point where I turned very suspicious of Blizzard's writing, the "must always be a Lich King debacle" was the point where I had my first and biggest disappointment in Blizzard... things only went downhill from there.
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#809
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Going over the Arthas novel again, what really sticks out is how hard it tried to whitewash him. Like when he's all blue after Uther says his famous line about Terenas' ashes. Or how Arthas apparently had second thoughts about smashing Quel'thalas.
Last edited by Galdus; 08-19-2015 at 08:34 PM.. |
#810
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![]() Eternal Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: England, Great Britain, Soon to be United States of Europe
Posts: 2,538
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![]() I wouldn't call that whitewashing. If anything it makes him look completely culpable for his actions after picking up Frostmourne. Going by the game it looked like he basically lost free will after doing so. The book suggests otherwise.
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"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag." - Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC |
#811
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![]() The Sun King Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115
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![]() To me desecrating the ashes was his moral horizon point, worse than the actual murder of Terenas. Having Arthas be especially bastard-y about it makes for stronger villainy, methinks.
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#812
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Quote:
WC3 Arthas wasn't a man who did nothing wrong before he became a victim of the Scourge. He was a brutal man who joined and embraced it like the degenerate he is. Last edited by Galdus; 08-21-2015 at 03:50 AM.. |
#813
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![]() The Sun King Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115
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![]() Another version of the Enhanced Campaign by a different author, this time: The Scourge of Lordaeron
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/m...xtension%3Dw3n |
#814
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![]() Eternal Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: England, Great Britain, Soon to be United States of Europe
Posts: 2,538
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![]() Quote:
Also apologies for the delay in replying.
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"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag." - Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC |
#815
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() RoC's manual established that Ner'zhul's control over his undead subjects was dependent on him directing their souls. Considering what happened in TFT and Arthas' noticeably different personality in its Undead Campaign from RoC's, Ner'zhul's control over Arthas must have weakened. Ner'zhul was lucky that Arthas accepted his status.
Last edited by Galdus; 09-13-2015 at 06:31 PM.. |
#816
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![]() Site Staff - Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,988
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![]() Not just noticeably different, but noticeably CHANGING. He starts off as big, cruel, cold-hearted conqueror Arthas, then slowly but surely shifts into an Arthas who... really never existed. Loyal, lighthearted, joyous. Then shifts back to cold-hearted conqueror at the end when Ner'zhul restores his power.
Also no way was Arthas just 'playing the leader' in RoC. He was PISSED that Uther was defying him. And as a leader he failed to appeal Uther to his cause and failed to prove that his methodology was the correct one. Arthas is not that stoic and never has been.
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"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were." |
#817
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Ner'zhul put Arthas in the position to be a great conqueror with undead lackeys to shine his shoes. As far as Arthas knew and cared Ner'zhul let him do as he pleased, unlike Uther, Terenas, Jaina and Muradin who were all questioning him or otherwise opposing him.
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#818
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![]() The Sun King Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Donetsk, Occupied Ukraine
Posts: 11,115
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![]() Quote:
Also, new events and sub-quests. Let's celebrate our hero of Lordaeron: |
#819
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![]() Elune Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30,980
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![]() Replayed the scenario maps today. Funny Bunny's Egg Hunt was hilarious.
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#820
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![]() Eternal Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: England, Great Britain, Soon to be United States of Europe
Posts: 2,538
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![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag." - Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC |
#821
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![]() Banished ![]() Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346
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![]() Also, WC3 established Ner'zhul as picking shady if not ''evil'' characters for his closest henchmen. What with how he recruited a Nerubian king and a necromancer.
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#822
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![]() Elune Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,786
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![]() Weird technical question about the WCIII campaign editor.
If you create a warcraft III campaign, you carry over data between levels through the use of game caches. However, are these game caches stored per individual campaign? Could you create a game cache in one campaign, and load it during another?
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#823
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![]() Elune Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,534
BattleTag: Lonami#2916
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![]() Quote:
Quote:
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![]() Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter) ~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~ ~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~ ~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~ Last edited by Lon-ami; 05-30-2017 at 09:38 AM.. |
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blizzard apologist, ragestalgia, roaring twenties, warcraft, warcraft iii |
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