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Old 05-30-2015, 06:12 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Darkmoon Card: Elementals Did Blizz just... Give up?

Some of you might recognize me. Most of you will not. That's beside the point, however.

I've been outside of the Blizz lore for quite a while now. I gave up. I was an old WarCraft fan that loved the hell out of that world and all that came with it.
When I was a (poor) kid, I happened to fish a PC out of a dumpster that had WarCraft installed on it. I was enthralled. I managed to wrangle myself a copy of the WC2 battlechest and it got better.
Then I found StarCraft and (eventually) found my way into that game and into Brood War.

The rest is history. I found pre-ordered WC3 and it was fucking glorious (as was TFT). I found myself in the WoW beta and, sadly, thought it was wonderful. I was immersed in a familiar world that I loved. A few years later, I got pissed. This world wasn't was I thought it'd be. Many of the people on this forum at the time felt the same. Nothing made sense. Nothing was as it was supposed to bel

I left. I left for a long time as my posting history will show.

I left myself one thing. One thing.

I loved WarCraft, but I also loved StarCraft. I read the StarCraft manual a million times as a kid (as I had the WC2 manual).
I decided to give Blizz one last chance as I left. I decided I'd buy all 3 StarCraft games when they came out.

Well, I got bored. I got bored and decided to buy the WoL+HotS bundle a few weeks back.

...

What did I find? Well, there was no manual, obviously. I'm reading up on a few comics and whatnot but..

What in the fuck?

In the game itself, I've found nothing but lazy, lazy storytelling riddled with cliches. There was not a single point in either storylines that I couldn't predict.

I'd hoped that we were over that with the WoW storytelling of "homg, new bigbad, go defeat."

Apparently I was wrong.

So, what? Did Blizz really just... Give up?

Metzen himself used to bring us some fun stories. He gave us WC1, WC2, WC3, SC1, and their respective expansions.

What I'm really getting at is... There really used to be some really great storytelling here. Why is it gone?
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  #2  
Old 05-30-2015, 06:44 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I think they did give up, between TBC's release and WotLK's alpha to be specific.

Also, Metzen wasn't alone. In the gaming industry, no one works alone, specially in larger studios.

So, what happened?

Probably nameless coworkers left. Maybe the entire team changed their opinion from the morning to the night, deciding to turn Blizzard into Marvel with orcs and elves, but that's more unlikely.

And it's not just lore.

Do I need to remind everyone how fucking chat channels took 6 months after release to come to SC2, which was preceded by another 6 months of beta, with Battle.net 0.2 pretty much not changing at all? But hey, Facebook integration! Do I need to remind everyone how they killed the mapmaking community with their shortsighted bullshit by forcing popularity sorting on everyone, and not fixing it until 2 years after release, when the community was no more? Or the RMAH and PvP in Diablo 3?

The Blizzard we knew and loved has long been dead.
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Last edited by Lon-ami; 05-30-2015 at 06:50 AM..
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  #3  
Old 05-30-2015, 06:47 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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They decided to go with whatever sounds cool at the moment.

Wouldn't it be cool if Diablo was a chick?

We thought these #savage cool radical orcs should be the villains
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Old 05-30-2015, 06:55 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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People told me saying ActiVision would change Blizzard was wrong and I was worrying about nothing.

I give you Blizzard of today.

Was it the only reason? No, but much like EA taking over BioWare, it changes shit and not for the better, just a sad reality.
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Old 05-30-2015, 07:28 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
People told me saying ActiVision would change Blizzard was wrong and I was worrying about nothing.

I give you Blizzard of today.

Was it the only reason? No, but much like EA taking over BioWare, it changes shit and not for the better, just a sad reality.
I always saw Blizzard changed alone, and that change led them to join Activision. I don't like Activision, but don't blame everything on them.
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~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2015, 07:32 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
People told me saying ActiVision would change Blizzard was wrong and I was worrying about nothing.

I give you Blizzard of today.

Was it the only reason? No, but much like EA taking over BioWare, it changes shit and not for the better, just a sad reality.
This.

Blizzard's decline in quality has been pretty apparent for a couple of years now. And I think it's basically WoW's fault. Or rather, the fault lies in game's success. It's like Blizzard realized they didn't have to write cool storylines and make original settings, and gave up on that aspect (almost) entirely (I say almost, because they still make half-assed attempts at creating a immersive and interesting stories), and in stead put all of their resources in making the gaming experience more streamlined and accessible to a larger audience. The deal with ActiVision just sped up the degenerative process quite drastically.
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:10 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
People told me saying ActiVision would change Blizzard was wrong and I was worrying about nothing.

I give you Blizzard of today.

Was it the only reason? No, but much like EA taking over BioWare, it changes shit and not for the better, just a sad reality.
I don't think it's Activision's fault really, Blizzard just got too big. They lost the common touch they were famous for, they got detached from the fanbase and what we wanted/expected, they started believing they were too good to fail (so it's not so much they're not trying out of lazyness, they don't even think they need to).

But even with all that while they are a much worse company now (both in their business practices and gameplay/story quality) they are good enough and so I stick with them, for now.
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:19 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
I don't think it's Activision's fault really, Blizzard just got too big. They lost the common touch they were famous for, they got detached from the fanbase and what we wanted/expected, they started believing they were too good to fail (so it's not so much they're not trying out of lazyness, they don't even think they need to).

But even with all that while they are a much worse company now (both in their business practices and gameplay/story quality) they are good enough and so I stick with them, for now.
It's like the wife staying with the abusive husband.
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:22 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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It's like the wife staying with the abusive husband.
Nah, he just got old, fat and needs viagra, but at least, he still has his own teeth.
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:31 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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It really feels like they gave up, long ago. People voted with their wallets and they grew tired in vast swimming pools of money.
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:08 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Nah, he just got old, fat and needs viagra, but at least, he still has his own teeth.
And he never forgets the little details.
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:39 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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While most of us feel like they've declined in quality, and the current brand of games are t convincing us otherwise, to say that they gave up seems to be a bit loaded? They still do little things like writing short stories, web-comics, and videos, but I think it's fair to say that they're not pushing themselves narratively.
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Old 05-30-2015, 10:25 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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And he never forgets the little details.
And he didn't forget our twentieth anniversary.
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Old 05-30-2015, 11:59 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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There's a tag for threads made by old users, but I can't remember what it is. :/
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Old 05-30-2015, 04:28 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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There's a tag for threads made by old users, but I can't remember what it is. :/
Sorry, should've added [Bittervet] to the title.
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Old 05-30-2015, 05:20 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Sorry, should've added [Bittervet] to the title.
All threads with old timers should have the tag: Stay a while and listen.
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Old 05-30-2015, 11:37 PM
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All threads with old timers should have the tag: Stay a while and listen.
#BaronGrackle #KirtheWizard #Genesis
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Old 05-30-2015, 11:41 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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No, we gave up. Look in the mirror, Blizzard is us!
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Old 05-31-2015, 03:14 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
No, we gave up. Look in the mirror, Blizzard is us!
Directed by M. Knight Shamametzen

I guess it's free to assume that Blizz doesn't read these forums like they used to. IIRC, we called them out on some shit and they took it back once or twice. Probably even took an idea or two.
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Old 05-31-2015, 03:20 AM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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I hypothesized that Warcraft lore suffered from the MMO structure; but indeed, thinking about Starcraft 2 proves that it isn't just that.

Given Starcraft 2, it's hard not to feel relieved that there is no plan for Warcraft 4.

As other people mentioned, this probably has a lot to do with getting big and focusing more on the commercial aspect. And there's also the classic problem that comes with sequels to successful stories. As far as the lore goes, WoW and SCII are really just milking the success of their predecessors, and we'd have next to zero reason to be interested in the story if they weren't set in worlds we already cared about.
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:50 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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I'm sorry, but the original post assumes that Warcraft I, II and III and Starcraft were amazingly original stories and drastically different to what came after, when in fact they're just not.

There's certainly issues and inconsistencies in the narrative in WoW as it expands, and that has many reasons, among them their design philosophy expansion by expansion, having many different writers working on many, many more stories than the original base tale and trying to keep that all in line with gameplay experience.

But the original Warcraft, Diablo and Starcraft stories are pretty damn simple (especially Warcraft I+II and Diablo, with Starcraft being extremely similar in narrative to Warcraft III). The rest of your expectations, that weren't met, was what you imagined the world to be in your head, which those older games did not show.

As for the "narrative" of HotS - it's a MOBA. It doesn't have any actual story or lore, it's just a fun scenario to create PvP action that's all.

And what issues do people have with Starcraft 2 now?? It's a totally straightforward continuation of the Starcraft story, it feels exactly like part one. I seriously think a lot of you suffer from extreme cases of pink nostalgia shades.
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Old 05-31-2015, 06:34 AM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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And what issues do people have with Starcraft 2 now?? It's a totally straightforward continuation of the Starcraft story, it feels exactly like part one.
No it isn't. "Overmind was secretly a good guy" and "Kerrigan is the only hope of the galaxy" are just retarded. As is the constant de-infesting and re-infesting of Kerrigan and all the personal drama about her. It just overturns the entire tone of the original Starcraft. Even WoW never stooped so low: it's like Arthas turning Human, going out with Jaina again, but turning Undead again to use the Scourge to overthrow an evil Human ruler. All the while being the One Hope of the Great Dark Beyond... and Kil'jaeden actually created the Lich King in order to save the world from Sargeras, because he can't directly himself, since he's been programmed by Sargeras to destroy the Titans and the Night Elves.

Last edited by Siegrune; 05-31-2015 at 06:39 AM..
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  #23  
Old 05-31-2015, 06:44 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
And what issues do people have with Starcraft 2 now?? It's a totally straightforward continuation of the Starcraft story, it feels exactly like part one. I seriously think a lot of you suffer from extreme cases of pink nostalgia shades.
Oh, right. I forgot. This is why you and I can never be friends.
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:40 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Hahaha what - implying that Starcraft 1 wasn't almost exclusively about Raynor and Kerrigan and her transformation. Wow.

Anansi - I still love you. Unrequited love is the most powerful form of it.
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:55 AM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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Hahaha what - implying that Starcraft 1 wasn't almost exclusively about Raynor and Kerrigan and her transformation. Wow.
There was no love story between them after Kerrigan became a Zerg. SCII cheapens the transformation by having Kerrigan "come back."

SC1 (BW mainly) was also very much about Kerrigan's callousness.

Last edited by Siegrune; 05-31-2015 at 07:58 AM..
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