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  #26  
Old 12-15-2016, 06:56 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Arthas is also an undead unit in WC3, he takes double damage from holy light based attacks. Even though he only became undead in Wrath when he ripped his heart out. Just game mechanics as it wouldn't have made sense to change his class when they just reskined the Death Knight unit
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  #27  
Old 12-15-2016, 07:01 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Tell me, are dryads night elves too, or do you only twist facts if they concern demons?
Tell me, are you having problems honey boo boo?

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http://classic.battle.net/war3/human...archmage.shtml

Blizzard will not hurt enemy units with Spell Immunity such as Night Elf Dryads, Undead units with Anti-Magic Shell, Undead Infernals, or Creeps with Spell Immunity.
^Canon describes dryads as night elf, so dryads must be night elf = your logic

After all, if the Chronicle states imps are living beings that can be reborn despite being aberrations that burn with a life/soul-consuming fire and are from an astral dimension that is in a never-ending state of twisting, you'd claim imps are actual living beings that can be born and reborn during your piss-poor attempt to convince me that a warlock isn't a necromancer. Am I right?

Look, boo boo, imps may (key word: may) not be undead, but imps burn with fel fire - a fire that is hotter than normal fire, can't be extinguished by normal water, and consumes souls (also known as life essences per canon). Imps DON'T have life essences if they have the life/soul-consuming fel energies. No excuses.

Infernals may (key word: may) not be undead, but their souls - if they have any - are definitely undead because they are the souls of constructs, which aren't actually alive. If infernals have souls, those souls were disembodied then attached to constructs.

Felhunters may (key word: may) not be undead, but they have a shadow bite that is, lore-wise, known to afflict living beings with plague. In a regard, felhunters are the manifestations of disorder, which can be defined as a lack of order. Blighted/fel flesh and vampiric tendrils that absorb energy as if it's a dark and vampiric void driven to devour all energy. And if fel energies truly consume souls, felhunters wouldn't have any souls. They would have fragments known as soul shards, crystals described by canon as demonic resources.

Voidwalkers may (key word: may) not be undead, but they are either dark spirits like the Void Lords or physical manifestations of the Void like Old Gods. Whatever the case, they can't have souls because the Void consumes souls and leaves behind undead echoes, echoes presumably known as soul shards - which voidwalkers have per canon.

Succubi may (key word: may) not be undead, but they are essentially vampiresses with hooves and the soul-consuming fel energies. Soulless devils with hooves are not living beings, even if their flesh doesn't seem decaying.

http://www.wowcards.info/card/azeroth/en/126/Helwen

^This seems just as living as v

http://www.wowcards.info/card/sylvan...nas-Windrunner

INB4 Sylvanas is merely a banshee possessing a body that doesn't seem decaying. Demons are astral entities from an astral dimension that is separate from the physical universe. The Nether is a formless place of magic and illusion and claiming that the physical can exist inside the non-physical is akin to claiming that a rock can exist inside a ghost. If demons are from an astral dimension, they're astral entities tethered to the Nether and can become incorporeal when they're in the physical universe. This is how demonic possession or phase shift works.

http://www.wowcards.info/card/legion/en/109/Rulrin

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-15-2016 at 09:44 PM..
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2016, 09:55 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
pls don't feed the 'infernals are undead' 'theory'
There's nothing to feed, the theory is utter bogus. Necrophotic is either just a troll who has too much time on his hands, or a little child that can't accept that warlocks are not necromancers while running around screaming "you are all liars!".

Last edited by Marthen; 02-22-2017 at 05:24 AM..
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:05 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Naah...it's just that you can't accept that warlocks are necromancers. Now, stop yapping about me for a moment.


I wonder whose the liar here. Chris Metzen - Godking of Blizzard - or Micky Neilson - veteran of Blizzard Entertainment

https://mobile.twitter.com/MickyNeil...79221265629184

Chris claims fel energy is essentially death energy (a necrotic power per the Chronicle) even though the veteran of Blizzard entertainment claims that fel magic isn't death magic. Both of them can't be telling the truth regarding this matter, which means that one of them is lying about this subject. So, whose the liar Marthen? Micky, the person whose Blood of the Highborne story generalized orcish warlocks as diabolical necromancers probably because Gul'dan and his warlocks infused the magical abilities of deceased warlocks into Ogres who gained necromantic abilities after the infusion, or Metzen?

Perhaps Metzen's statement was retcon'ed? Oh man, if Metzen retcon'ed his own statement, he sure is a wishy washy writer who can't maintain a consistent and coherent story. From draining life, to converting life into an entropic and poisonous force Metzen describes as death energy, to binding the souls of fel constructs (e.g. infernals) to their will, to tainting nature with shadow magic, to afflicting enemies with a seed of corruption (plagued grain?), to even manipulating doomfire spirits, warlocks are clearly manipulators of life and death. And to state warlocks aren't manipulators of life and death is to deny all things warlocks are about.

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-16-2016 at 06:37 AM..
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  #30  
Old 12-16-2016, 03:25 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Thank you for proving my point yet again with your little temper tantrum here.
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  #31  
Old 12-16-2016, 06:18 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Thank you for proving my point yet again with your little temper tantrum here.
What temper tantrum? Kid, you need to get your head checked because I didn't prove any of your points. What I did prove is that you're a troll who didn't state anything to counter the points mentioned by my previous post. Your theory that infernals aren't undead even though canon states otherwise is just utter bogus. You just seem to be a kid that can't accept the fact that warlocks are necromancers while screaming Metzen and Aaron Rosenberg are liars. I know you're an initiate to the lore, so I'll make this simple for you to understand: Chris Metzen establishes that fel energy is death energy and Aaron describes warlocks as necromancers multiple times throughout his ToD novel and what they state overrules your headcanon. Get that in your autistic head.

Quote:
“He had made his choice to protect not just them, but all the orcs. This very world. Durotan knew in his bones that it had been Gul’dan’s death magic, the fel, that had destroyed Draenor, and would eventually destroy this world, this Azeroth, as well. And the orc people along with it.”

Excerpt From: Golden, Christie. “Warcraft Official Movie Novelization.” Titan Books. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
“Something drained the life from Draenor, from the very land itself. When the Dark Portal was opened that lifelessness touched our world as well, killing the land around it and spreading outward. When we destroyed the portal, we thought the land would heal itself. It did not. In fact, the taint continued to spread.”

Excerpt From: Rosenberg, Aaron. “World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal.” Simon & Schuster, 2008. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
“The fel takes life from more than its victims,” Durotan explained. “It kills the earth and corrupts those who use it. We saw this happen before, in my world of Draenor. The land died, the creatures were twisted… even the Spirits were harmed. Gul’dan would poison everything with his death magic here, as he did there.”

Excerpt From: Golden, Christie. “Warcraft Official Movie Novelization.” Titan Books. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
There were several warlocks here, some of them quite powerful, but their death magics took time, and things happened quickly in battle.”

Excerpt From: Rosenberg, Aaron. “World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal.” Simon & Schuster, 2008. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
“The Blooded Ones remembered the old legends, and came to claim our Seat for their own. We were able to defend this, the heart of our Seat, but even though they could not enter here, they drained us greatly. We have been dying, slowly, and now we are all but gone. We reached out to all the Draenor shaman. We begged for aid. Most could not hear us. Some did, but they turned away their faces, unwilling to believe what was truly happening. Still others rejected us outright, choosing to follow Gul’dan and his warlock magic of death instead of us, and our magic of life. You, the Frostwolves, almost heard us in time. Almost,” the Spirit of Life said sadly, its borrowed voice trailing off.”

Excerpt From: Golden, Christie. “Warcraft: Durotan: The Official Movie Prequel.” Titan Books. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
“As they feasted together, one of the Warsongs mentioned an orc with strange powers, like a shaman but different. Warlock, was the term they had used; a word Durotan had not heard before or since—until tonight.
Garad’s face hardened. “So, it was you they spoke of,” he said. “Warlock. I should have known the moment I saw you. You deal in death, but you hope to convince me to join you with talk of life. An odd juxtaposition.”

Excerpt From: Golden, Christie. “Warcraft: Durotan: The Official Movie Prequel.” Titan Books. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
^Canon sources vs. your what now? Headcanon

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-16-2016 at 08:19 AM..
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  #32  
Old 12-16-2016, 08:49 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Why are you addresing necrophotic. Did you become retarded again?
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  #33  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:00 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic;1545590^Canon sources vs. your what now? [SIZE="5"
Headcanon[/SIZE]
I'm not going to read any of those quotes, but isn't your deal that you think the canon is lying to you?
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  #34  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:22 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
isn't your deal that you think the canon is lying to you?
No. I don't think canon is lying to me. I do, however, believe the lying loser Sean is because the lying loser denied that demons are the source of fel magic (which the "canon Metzen" describes as demonic energy) and denied that warlocks harness their power from the place demons are from, the Nether.

He may not have outright stated this, but Sean has ultimately claimed that a demonologist does not need to involve himself - or herself - without a demon in order to obtain demonic energy. His entire perception of the warlock class is fucked up, at least to me anyways.

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-16-2016 at 09:28 AM..
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  #35  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:24 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post
No. I don't think canon is lying to me. I do, however, believe Sean is lying to me because the lying loser denied that demons are the source of fel magic (which the "canon Metzen" describes as demonic energy) and denied that warlocks harness their power from the place demons are from, the Nether.

He may not have stated this, but Sean is ultimately claiming that a demonologist does not need to involve himself - or herself - without a demon in order to obtain demonic energy. Now, I may be mistaken and demonologists may not have to involve themselves with a demon in order to obtain demonic energy, but Sean seems to be lying to me.
I wonder what Sean stands to gain by this nefarious plot.
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  #36  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:34 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I wonder what Sean stands to gain by this nefarious plot.
Standing with his infernal compatriots.



Also, Movie canon quotes are not for general lore answers. Different universes handled by wholly different people with no intent on shared canon.
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  #37  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:39 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Also, Movie canon quotes are not for general lore answers. Different universes handled by wholly different people with no intent on shared canon.
The movie canon establishes that fel magic is death magic and proof that fel magic is death magic in an alternate canon is proof that fel magic is death magic in the main canon. Fel magic is fel magic. It just doesn't become something else in some alternate universe. Aside from that, I already presented quotes from other canon establishing that fel magic is death magic.

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I wonder what Sean stands to gain by this nefarious plot.
I wonder that too.

The Warcraft I manual itself describes the warlocks' powers as arcane and establishes that their sorceries are rooted in the underworld, the necromantic place where necromantic powers are of according to the Warcraft II manual. And although warlocks aren't treated as necrolytes by the Warcraft I manual, warlocks always had some connection to the realm of the dead and from Warcraft II until today, necrolytes are considered to be warlocks. As of today, warlocks essentially fit the definition of necrolytes - harvesters and binders of souls who use shadow-touched powers. And although they may not bind the bodies of the dead, the ability to raise and bind the bodies of the dead is something necrolytes gained only after receiving more tutelage from Kil'jaeden according to the Warcraft II manual.

Mayhap, Sean Copeland denied that demons are the source of the demonologists' fel energy and denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether, the place demons are from, because the Warcraft II manual establishes the Nether as the place where the spirits of the dead reside? Mayhap, Sean denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether because warlocks are necromantic spellcasters if their power is from the realm of the dead? Mayhap, Sean denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether because the Warcraft II manual establishes that warlocks, the so-called channelers of forbidden powers, were bestowed with knowledge of the dead by communing with astral spirits from the Nether and channeled their energies. Mayhap, Sean Copeland denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether to trick you into believing necrolytes are magi. Ever thought of that?

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-16-2016 at 11:13 PM..
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  #38  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:41 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Mayhap, Sean Copeland denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether to trick you into believing necrolytes are magi. Ever thought of that?
Gosh, the fiend! But why?
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  #39  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:03 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Gosh, the fiend! But why?
Cause he's an unscrupulous, no-good liar who doesn't seem to understand the implication of his claims. That's why.

Lucky for me, I know exactly what that failed Historian is doing here:

1) Claiming necromancers are magi and that magi harness their power from the Nether, implying and ultimately claiming that necromancers harness their power from the Nether.

2) Denying that warlocks (demonologists) harness their power from the Nether, implying and ultimately claiming that their power doesn't exist in the Nether OR that warlocks are incapable of harnessing their power from the Nether. (If their power exists in the Nether, why don't warlocks harness their power from the Nether? Could it be because Sean believes warlocks are incapable of harnessing their power from the Nether?)

3) Claiming demons aren't the source of the demonologists' fel energy, implying and ultimately claiming that a demonologist doesn't need to involve himself - or herself - with a demon in order to obtain demonic energy.

4) Claiming that warlocks get their demonic warlock magics from destruction, which is a process involving a construct - not a living thing.

5) Denying that warlock magics don't come from the living.

6) Claiming that fel magic is a burn life to create kind of thing.

7) Denying that fel magic is some poisonous or toxic form of life magic (which necromantic magic is considered to be in most - if not all - fantasy settings).

8) Running and crying to Metzen to retcon the realm of the dead after he was exposed as the fraud he is.

9) Profit?

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-16-2016 at 11:19 PM..
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:09 AM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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How is it exactly that the people responsible for creating and maintaining the lore are trying to deceive you? You infer all sorts of things based on materials created by teams of people that don't even necessarily communicate everything they need to know to eachother, and the general consensus is that you're are literally fucking insane or a troll. So how is it that you know the lore better than the people who actually come up with it, and why do you think they are lying to you?
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  #41  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:30 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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How is it exactly that the people responsible for creating and maintaining the lore are trying to deceive you?
Stop conflating the Lore Historians with the authors of World of Warcraft. The Lore Historians are not responsible for creating the lore and they don't have it within their ability to retcon the fact that warlocks are about demons, demonic powers, and the place demons are from.

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the general consensus is that you're are literally fucking insane or a troll.
According to who? You? The consensus is that you're literally insane or a troll because you're acting as if Sean Copeland is an author of World of Warcraft and isn't trying to deceive people even though he denied that demons are the source of fel energy and denied that warlocks harness their power from the Nether - the place demons are from.

Are you so stupid that you're incapable of realizing that Sean Copeland is ultimately claiming a demonologist does not need to involve himself - or herself - with a demon in order to obtain demonic energy? He's fucking crazy and you seem just as nuts. It doesn't take communion with Metzen, Dave, or a team of people to know and state something so simple to understand: demonologists get their power from demons and the place demons are from.

My point is that demonologists harness their power from demons and, by extension, the place demons are from - the Nether.

Sean's point is that demons aren't the source of fel energy (which Metzen describes as demonic) and that demonologists don't harness their power from the place demons are from.

Just like that dumb twit Cemotucu, you would basically infer demonologists - when regarding to World of Warcraft lore - can exist without a demon based solely on the asinine claims of a seemingly retarded Blizzard Historian. You're a warped sicko who doesn't seem capable of thinking for yourself.

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Originally Posted by HackBenjamin View Post
You infer all sorts of things based on materials created by teams of people that don't even necessarily communicate everything
Actually, I'm concluding that demons are the source of fel energy because canon sources state fel energy is demonic, the dark magic of demons. You're inferring that Sean Copeland isn't a liar just because he's a Historian, which is why you seem to be a warped sicko with a warped mind to me. Sean Copeland may be Blizzard's Historian, but he's the one who ultimately claimed demonologists don't need to involve themselves with a demon in order to obtain demonic energy - not me. If you want to accuse a guy of ignoring lore and presenting headcanon as canon lore, accuse Copeland. What he stated isn't true and it will never be true when regards to WoW lore. In fact:

Quote:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warlock

By their very nature, demons are leeches on the living universe—but the demonologist has mastered harnessing the power of these malefic beings on the field of battle. Warlocks harvest the souls of their defeated enemies; those specialized in the ways of demonology use this life essence to tap into the Void, pulling all manner of abomination from the chaos of the Twisting Nether. While such a practice is often considered by outsiders to be wicked and reckless, the demonologist maintains absolute control over the summoned creatures. These malignant entities are fully beholden to—and empowered by—the will of the warlock, until banished to the realm from whence they came.
^Sean's lie that demonologists don't control and make use of (harness) power from the Nether even though they summon demons from the Nether then harness their nether energies? It is non-canon. If Sean Copeland - as a Lore Historian - is canon, the warlock class doesn't exist when regards to WoW lore because he has denied the fundamental aspect of the class, basically treating it as if it's non-canon. And, although you may be too stupid to realize this, I will never regret insulting this lying sociopath who is ultimately responsible for a shit ton of people claiming that demons aren't the source of the demonologists' fel energy on top of being responsible for even more nonsense. So if you and your friends here are trying to make me feel bad for insulting Sean, you're shit out of luck. It's not going to happen. I don't see any reason why I should stop insulting that compulsive liar who lied to others and made me question why I'm even playing a class with lore treated as dismissible garbage.

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So how is it that you know the lore better than the people who actually come up with it, I and why do you think they are lying to you?
I didn't say I know the lore better than the people who actually come up with it and just because I didn't come up with the lore doesn't mean I don't have access to it or don't understand it.

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-17-2016 at 03:17 PM..
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:32 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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lately I've been thinking of it as less of a coalescence, and more like nuclear radiation. Light and Darkness are having a nuclearesque reaction in the Twisting Nether and fel energy is their fallout. It behaves more or less like the standard radioactive fantasy.... causing mutations, deformities, and the usual contamination of the landscape.

Fel is a manefestation of chaos, while Arcane is the manifestation of Order. Both the Physical Universe, where arcane energy seems to govern natural principles, and the Twisting Nether, where fel energy runs rampant and chaos reigns are products of the initial Light/Shadow reaction. In the Great Dark, shards of light coalesced into Naaru, gave awakened elements into elementals, and implanted themselves into planets, creating the world souls that would awaken into Titans. We don't know how that process worked to create Demons in the Nether. Completely different rules apply there. Perhaps no rules apply there.
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  #43  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:41 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
lately I've been thinking of it as less of a coalescence, and more like nuclear radiation. Light and Darkness are having a nuclearesque reaction in the Twisting Nether and fel energy is their fallout. It behaves more or less like the standard radioactive fantasy.... causing mutations, deformities, and the usual contamination of the landscape.

Fel is a manefestation of chaos, while Arcane is the manifestation of Order. Both the Physical Universe, where arcane energy seems to govern natural principles, and the Twisting Nether, where fel energy runs rampant and chaos reigns are products of the initial Light/Shadow reaction. In the Great Dark, shards of light coalesced into Naaru, gave awakened elements into elementals, and implanted themselves into planets, creating the world souls that would awaken into Titans. We don't know how that process worked to create Demons in the Nether. Completely different rules apply there. Perhaps no rules apply there.
Buts me that Fel seems to kick the shit out of arcane and every other magical energy though.
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  #44  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:47 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Gosh, the fiend! But why?
They are hiding the true World of Warcraft from us!
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  #45  
Old 12-16-2016, 11:02 AM
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Buts me that Fel seems to kick the shit out of arcane and every other magical energy though.
Disorder needs no reinforcement to perpetuate itself; it just sorta "happens" in the absence of order. Conversely Order needs to be propped up and held together by calculated form and purpose to really "work."

Which is probably why formulated arcane wards and runes can contain the fel (like with Aegwynn's and the Pillars' seals on the Broken Isles portal and demon hunters' tattoos keeping their demons subdued), but just lobbing arcane energy at fel energy in a test of strength tends to be a losing battle.

The arcane can match the fel, but not on the fel's terms, because the fel's terms are disorder and chaos and therefore anathema to the arcane.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:08 AM
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Right, necrophotic, you've made your point. Now let's never speak of this again.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:40 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Perhaps another way of looking at it:

The Physical Universe where Azeroth is situated is called the Great Dark. The Void of Space is infinite, world souls are few and far between. However, all that nothing is just that: nothing. It serves as a mere backdrop to the worlds, Titans, elementals, and other living races that dwell in it. It could be surmised that The Great Dark is Void Territory that has been conquered and is being colonized by light, with Arcane Natural Law being the result. This might explain the motives of the Void Lords and Old Gods. They're trying to reclaim lost territory.

If that is so, we can characterize the Twisting Nether as the opposite. My copy of Chronicle was lost by my sister, but it IIRC it is a plane of twisting energy. What if instead of being a plane of Void punctuated by matter and life like the Great Dark, the Nether is a plane of Energy. It may have began as a plane of light, but contact with the Void has tainted, causing a violent reaction and a state of Fel as the Cosmic Background Radiation. A perpetual decay of light.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 12-16-2016 at 11:45 AM..
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  #48  
Old 12-16-2016, 12:36 PM
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Angry I'm going to strangle that Sean Copeland!

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  #49  
Old 12-16-2016, 12:44 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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  #50  
Old 12-17-2016, 05:19 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I think we all should add the fact that warlocks are not necromancers to our signatures. Imagine how much would this poor soul get triggered.
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