Of course.

Don't the people falling prey realize such a situation would play right into Russia's cards? I can understand those who want to play into their cards knowingly and willingly, feeling that the US is just a shallow denerate bubble that's going to pop one day and that a conservative continental alliance is far more preferable that anything concerning the Atlantics, but I can't grasp those who preach against Russia on the one hand, yet would like Europe ruled by movements and sentiments that are usually as much anti-NATO as anti-EU on the other.

Only if they have similar goals. If not, they will readily butcher each other. Just look at the 1930s Italy and Germany, from hated foes to the Axis. But I don't think that's the case here.

Tell that to those Americans who were strongly proposed to any sort of federation during the early 1800s.

They also very quickly became very pro-Russia.

I think it might be a "kindred spirits" kind of thing. We had a surprisingly popular Nazi party over here back in the 30's, too, you know.

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I hate you people.

Sure, but I'd say that to become kindred spirits, you not only need a similar ideology, you also need similar goals. Say, there was this Czech fascist party during the 30s. Guess what, they were strongly opposed to the Reich, enough that there had to be another pro-German party set up once the situation demanded it. Why? They might have shared ideological background, but practical reasons made them antagonists.

AS a general rule extremes are bad but moderation isn't so bad.

Russia is just trying to exploit divisions that are already there.

Hence, despite not being fond of the Union's current structure and policies, I am not abolitionist but reformist.

Everyone is always exploiting weaknesses and divisions. What's somewhat scary and vexing is how successfully the Russkies have been doing it these past few years. After the refugee crisis and the political fallout that followed, as well as the invasion of Crimea just a year prior, people have been playing straight into Putin's hands.

I think you need to destroy the EU. Not that a union of European states isn't good. It's the EU that isn't. One of the founders of the EU had this to say about Europe, that being Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi.

The Union is just a structure. It's all about people, you need to replace those, yet to do that, you don't need to tear down everything. You don't need to demolish whole house for new furniture and facade.

I don't get it. Why did you post that quote?

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If Putin can make you hate the people on the side of the people he 'helped' it does his work for him too.

Very relevant.

Immigration is usually really political. The politicians want to bring in people who will vote for the policies they support. There are a lot better ways to help the refuges that aren't being taken like assisting the majority of the victims that are still in Iraq or Syria or the ones that fled to neighboring Arab countries.

It would be like going from the Articles of Confederation to the US Constitution.

He clearly hated Europeans. You can't have a state that is supposed to serve a people that it hates.

Not that I'm offended, but that's probably more fitting for the shitpost thread.

I don't see how you get that from that quote. It looks more like you're making an argument against miscegenation.

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And? We have seen worse historically.

Administrations, policies, outlooks, strategies, these all change gradually despite what some of the founders held dear.

His goal was clearly stated.

Destroy the diverse peoples of Europe (and Africa and Asia). There is no other way to frame such an idea.


Europe has been in better positions historically. Besides, the EU doesn't foster reform.

He's only talking about race, though.

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Oh you mean like Black Supremacists (hell, even so called "Moderates") have been doing for fucking decades yet your kind seem to ignore?

Really makes you think.

And? You can't have Western Civilization without whites.

I don't see how that does have to do with the argument at hand. Because Europe has seen better, the Union can't be reformed? Uhm. And there were many administrations/regimes that didn't forster reform, yet had been ultimately reformed.

In any case, I simply stated I am reformist myself, not that you have to follow my lead. If you think the Union has to die, alright, it's your decision after all.

Brazil today:


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKBN1852AF

A common point amongst Lula's defenders are that his Prosecutor (Moro) is also the Judge of the process.