Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Scrolls of Lore > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #5701  
Old 06-25-2014, 05:23 PM
Rufin Rufin is offline

Eternal
Rufin's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,630
BattleTag: Rufin#1220

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
I'd rather we take away Sarahmoo's ability to ban overall. She only did this because her pretty little feelings were hurt. I find that to be more than pathetic. To quote Hammerbro, she's a dipshit.
There is no real difference between what for example Rufin advocates, what Hammerbro warns about and what several dark regimes has been doing over the centuries. It all nails down to ethnic cleansing and genocide. The difference lies in if it's active or passive genocide. If you can't understand what I'm typeing, go read the UN chapter on genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Having been away for a few days (I'm still in the boonies of Ontario with shit internet) and just going through this thread fresh, whats with the reference to myself?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Shut up your nipples are useless.
I'm a bit slow, but it's awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #5702  
Old 06-25-2014, 05:35 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

Sha of Disappointment
Commander Rotal's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,092

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
I actually work with a guy that calls himself "Persian." So, either he's bullshitting everyone, or it's a legit label for people from the region. Dude's like the smartest guy I know, so I kind of think it's legit.
Yep, it's a regional / cultural thing and quite normal. Got a persian buddy who emigrated from Iran at the age of 8, calls himself a persian (a "perverted persian" when he's in a good mood) when asked for it, got angry over me calling him an arab exactly once until he understood that the white man from Austria had no idea there was a difference, is studying to become a lawyer and speaks more vienese than me. Because fuck Wienerisch. Nobody understands you when talking Wienerisch, not even the Wiener.

Having done the dick-joke - didn't we have a rule or two against turning the RnR thread into Spam Thread 2.0? Complete with no pictures and all?
Reply With Quote
  #5703  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:11 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

Elune
C9H20's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,101

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
Does Cantus work for the Department of Energy?
Damn PJ, stop trying to score a suggardaddy so obviously
Reply With Quote
  #5704  
Old 06-26-2014, 03:21 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

(╯�□�)╯︵ ┻━┻
Get Off My Lawn!
Bolvar's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Get off my lawn!
Posts: 19,902

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Damn PJ, stop trying to score a suggardaddy so obviously
Look, I already tried to hook Cantus up with the forum's token female. It didn't work out, OK? Omacron was next in line, but, frankly, unless PJ starts hitting the juice and puts on about 40 pounds of lean muscle and green body paint, she's just not going to suit him.
__________________
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
Reply With Quote
  #5705  
Old 06-26-2014, 06:24 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

Ethermancer - Admin
Cantus's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: DC, U.S.
Posts: 11,086
BattleTag: Cantus#1700

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
Yep, it's a regional / cultural thing and quite normal. Got a persian buddy who emigrated from Iran at the age of 8, calls himself a persian (a "perverted persian" when he's in a good mood) when asked for it, got angry over me calling him an arab exactly once until he understood that the white man from Austria had no idea there was a difference, is studying to become a lawyer and speaks more vienese than me. Because fuck Wienerisch. Nobody understands you when talking Wienerisch, not even the Wiener.

Having done the dick-joke - didn't we have a rule or two against turning the RnR thread into Spam Thread 2.0? Complete with no pictures and all?
We did and do. We should probably enforce it at some point. I'm kind of waiting on Sarah or hand to tell us to stop corrupting all of you guys and begin a crackdown of epic and terrible proportions.

Until then, I can't help but enjoy seeing Bolvar playing Yenta for PJ. Mostly because that involves the image of him in an old grandma's shawl, cane, and long grey hair, offering cookies to us whipper snappers.
__________________

Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.
Reply With Quote
  #5706  
Old 06-26-2014, 07:18 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

Elune
Magistrix Verdande's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xerrath
Posts: 11,081
BattleTag: Malice#2774

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
We did and do. We should probably enforce it at some point. I'm kind of waiting on Sarah or hand to tell us to stop corrupting all of you guys and begin a crackdown of epic and terrible proportions.

Until then, I can't help but enjoy seeing Bolvar playing Yenta for PJ. Mostly because that involves the image of him in an old grandma's shawl, cane, and long grey hair, offering cookies to us whipper snappers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5707  
Old 06-26-2014, 09:37 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

What is a Yenta?
Reply With Quote
  #5708  
Old 06-26-2014, 10:01 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

Elune
Magistrix Verdande's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xerrath
Posts: 11,081
BattleTag: Malice#2774

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
What is a Yenta?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5709  
Old 06-26-2014, 11:22 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

Sha of Disappointment
Commander Rotal's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,092

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
What is a Yenta?
Sounds like a Pokmon to me. But then again i didn't sleep in five days.
Reply With Quote
  #5710  
Old 06-26-2014, 11:22 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

Lord of the
Assassin's League
Sonneillon's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canadaland
Posts: 9,982
BattleTag: Sonneillon #1112

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I call Irani people I like Persian, and those I don't, Irani.

That's probably seven shades of fucked up.
The Iranian's I know do the same thing, so really it's pretty spot on. Same with the "Egyptians" which to no end drives me batty.
__________________
"Forgetting is like a wound. The wound may heal but it has already left a scar."
Reply With Quote
  #5711  
Old 06-26-2014, 11:24 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,666
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Wait, so Persia isn't an actual country?

#Americanprivilege
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #5712  
Old 06-26-2014, 11:37 AM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
The Iranian's I know do the same thing, so really it's pretty spot on. Same with the "Egyptians" which to no end drives me batty.
I demand you to speak English.
Reply With Quote
  #5713  
Old 06-26-2014, 11:54 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,666
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
I demand you to speak English.
.....What do you have issue with this time?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #5714  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:03 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
.....What do you have issue with this time?
He's saying that modern Egyptians are not really Egyptians, and should hence be called "Arabs" or some such thing. He also says that "Persians" are not Persian, but "Iranian". This is incorrect for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, Persians have always been called Persians in English, and have always called themselves the equivalent of "Iranian" in Persian. The same Persians that live in Persia now are the same Persians that were in Persia at the time of ancient Persia. They are ethnically the same. Persia also has many minorities, such as the Azeris, but we can ignore them for now. Persians were never "Arabised" despite the Caliphate's advance. In fact, one could say that Arabs "Persianised" themselves, as they adopted many Persians words in Arabic, Persian elements of architecture, and other various things.

The story with the Egyptians is different. Most of them are predominantly of Arab blood, though they have an admixture of blood that means that they are related to the ancient Egyptians. The ancient Egyptians became Arabised after the Caliphate's advance, unlike the Persians. Coptic Christian Egyptians are what one could consider the "true" decedents of the Ancient Egyptians, though they too were Arabised, and have some Arab blood. Of course, the Ancient Egyptians themselves were also Hellenised, but we can ignore that fact.

Regardless, we call them "Egyptians" because they are from the geographic area of "Egypt". This is not that complicated. If we were to deconstruct every country's demonym by ethnicity and conquest, we'd find that most people in that country don't even conform to it, or that the demonym itself is constructed. That's why geography is a good default setting for demonyms, as it ignores the complex ethnic boundaries that exist, giving us an easy label where one doesn't really exist.
Reply With Quote
  #5715  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:28 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

Lord of the
Assassin's League
Sonneillon's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canadaland
Posts: 9,982
BattleTag: Sonneillon #1112

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
He's saying that modern Egyptians are not really Egyptians, and should hence be called "Arabs" or some such thing. He also says that "Persians" are not Persian, but "Iranian". This is incorrect for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, Persians have always been called Persians in English, and have always called themselves the equivalent of "Iranian" in Persian. The same Persians that live in Persia now are the same Persians that were in Persia at the time of ancient Persia. They are ethnically the same. Persia also has many minorities, such as the Azeris, but we can ignore them for now. Persians were never "Arabised" despite the Caliphate's advance. In fact, one could say that Arabs "Persianised" themselves, as they adopted many Persians words in Arabic, Persian elements of architecture, and other various things.

The story with the Egyptians is different. Most of them are predominantly of Arab blood, though they have an admixture of blood that means that they are related to the ancient Egyptians. The ancient Egyptians became Arabised after the Caliphate's advance, unlike the Persians. Coptic Christian Egyptians are what one could consider the "true" decedents of the Ancient Egyptians, though they too were Arabised, and have some Arab blood. Of course, the Ancient Egyptians themselves were also Hellenised, but we can ignore that fact.

Regardless, we call them "Egyptians" because they are from the geographic area of "Egypt". This is not that complicated. If we were to deconstruct every country's demonym by ethnicity and conquest, we'd find that most people in that country don't even conform to it, or that the demonym itself is constructed. That's why geography is a good default setting for demonyms, as it ignores the complex ethnic boundaries that exist, giving us an easy label where one doesn't really exist.
I'll agree to disagree on this one. It's like calling my Caucasian ass Ojibway just for living on the land or Bolvar calling himself Navajo. But whatever, it's a silly argument. As for you disagreeing with the statement about "Persians" and "Iranians", I've known a few and this is the god damned truth. I just think it's silly clutching onto a long dead empire your culture doesn't even remotely resemble or relate to anymore because you aren't keen on things. Shit I'm not keen on my government but I'm still a Canadian, I'm not going to call myself Imperial British just because I don't like all those other dirty Canadians. As for yeah, the Egyptian thing, your point is valid they do infact in on Egyptian soil, I've had issues with the false hood that their maintain heritage from the ancient Egyptians, which comes back to the first argument about the Native Americans, it's frankly bullshit. Again, this is mostly from personal experience with "Egyptians" that are totally "Arabic". I just feel it's ignorant and insulting to the cultures that came before.

Fojar if you want to get in on this argument, we can make it about Forsaken calling themselves Lordaeronians.
__________________
"Forgetting is like a wound. The wound may heal but it has already left a scar."
Reply With Quote
  #5716  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:35 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
I'll agree to disagree on this one. It's like calling my Caucasian ass Ojibway just for living on the land or Bolvar calling himself Navajo. But whatever, it's a silly argument. As for you disagreeing with the statement about "Persians" and "Iranians", I've known a few and this is the god damned truth. I just think it's silly clutching onto a long dead empire your culture doesn't even remotely resemble or relate to anymore because you aren't keen on things. Shit I'm not keen on my government but I'm still a Canadian, I'm not going to call myself Imperial British just because I don't like all those other dirty Canadians. As for yeah, the Egyptian thing, your point is valid they do infact in on Egyptian soil, I've had issues with the false hood that their maintain heritage from the ancient Egyptians, which comes back to the first argument about the Native Americans, it's frankly bullshit. Again, this is mostly from personal experience with "Egyptians" that are totally "Arabic". I just feel it's ignorant and insulting to the cultures that came before.

Fojar if you want to get in on this argument, we can make it about Forsaken calling themselves Lordaeronians.
Is it by any chance like calling yourself "Caucasian" when you are not from the Caucuses?

What you don't realise, is that Persia was the official and common name of the state in English until the Islamic revolution. It is not about a "long dead Empire". The "Imperial State of Persia" only died in 1979 with the fall of the Pahlavi dynasty. Many don't agree with the change to "Iran" in English mandated by the new Islamic authorities, just as many did not agree with the revolution. Regardless, Persia has always been the correct term for "Iranians" in English.
Reply With Quote
  #5717  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:54 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

Elune
Saranus's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 5,585
BattleTag: DrRobert#1475

Default

The language of Iran, Farsi, is simply 'Persian' in Farsi. Replace F with P and you get Parsi, not a big stretch to get to Persian. Farsi -> Parsi -> Persian.
__________________
Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
Reply With Quote
  #5718  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:56 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

Elune
Magistrix Verdande's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xerrath
Posts: 11,081
BattleTag: Malice#2774

Default

I find it interesting that someone insists on british grammatical and categorical labeling be forcibly applied to a non-british culture. And also to non-british people, on an international arena, discussing such cultures.

Hm.

Carry on. I'll observe from here on out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5719  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:31 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
The language of Iran, Farsi, is simply 'Persian' in Farsi. Replace F with P and you get Parsi, not a big stretch to get to Persian. Farsi -> Parsi -> Persian.
The language of Iran is called "Persian". There is no "Farsi" in English. Yes, I'm aware it is derived from the Persian word "Pars". However, Persian-language scholars, of whom I know a few of personally, insist that the proper term for Persian is Persian, and that "Farsi" in English is an incorrect labelling.

Quote:
I find it interesting that someone insists on british grammatical and categorical labeling be forcibly applied to a non-british culture. And also to non-british people, on an international arena, discussing such cultures.

Hm.

Carry on. I'll observe from here on out.
When we speak English, we use English words. These exonyms have a history, and there is no reason to replace them. They are the words my ancestors used to refer to these peoples, cities, places, and I shan't be changing them because of external political interference.

I'm aware that all labels and categories are unreal constructions. However, as prisoners of language, we must use them to understand each other. If this is the case, then we have the ability to use the words that make the most sense to use. In my opinion, it makes sense to adhere to the continuum of history in this instance, as it preserves our historical connection to our own language, and the organic history of human contact that is carried with these words.

As such, I don't demand that the Japanese call me "English" in proper pronunciation. They can call me eikoku shinshi.

Last edited by Eagan; 06-26-2014 at 01:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5720  
Old 06-26-2014, 01:52 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

Elune
Magistrix Verdande's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xerrath
Posts: 11,081
BattleTag: Malice#2774

Default

But you are speaking to non-British people, who have their own cultural derivations to and from the English language. The Queen's English might rule where you live; it is not necessarily so in the rest of the world. This forum is an international arena, with what I would venture to be a majority of a Canadian and American population.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5721  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:05 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
But you are speaking to non-British people, who have their own cultural derivations to and from the English language. The Queen's English might rule where you live; it is not necessarily so in the rest of the world. This forum is an international arena, with what I would venture to be a majority of a Canadian and American population.
This has nothing to do with the "Queen's", which isn't my native language either. This has to do with the English language as a whole. It is all part of one English-language continuum, that started at the beginning of humanity's languages.
Reply With Quote
  #5722  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:16 PM
handclaw handclaw is offline


handclaw's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,338

Default

Sooo, guys, remember? Rules and Regs of SoL thread.

Spam's that way -> http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...ad.php?t=34407
__________________


I am handclaw and this is my favorite thread on Scrolls of Lore!... oh wait, nope... Just another bitching thread.
Reply With Quote
  #5723  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:17 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

Elune
Magistrix Verdande's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xerrath
Posts: 11,081
BattleTag: Malice#2774

Default

Your having to defend such a notion is in itself proof that such isn't the case, especially considering you specifically noted that you refuse to adapt due to "external political interference".

I mean, the English you speak yourself is a bastardization of the english you claim your ancestors spoke. Language is dynamic, and it changes by its' very nature.

But I have nothing more to say on the matter. I'd rather just observe, for now. And am willing to admit the notion that I might be entirely wrong, and be content with such.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5724  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:17 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

Poor Soldier
Ragnahar's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 12,430
BattleTag: Mathias#1221

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
This has nothing to do with the "Queen's", which isn't my native language either. This has to do with the English language as a whole. It is all part of one English-language continuum, that started at the beginning of humanity's languages.
As a Caucasian male, I say we call them Iranians. Them damn Arabs don't even care as much as you do!
__________________
Game over, man. Game over.
Reply With Quote
  #5725  
Old 06-26-2014, 02:23 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

Eternal
Eagan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,136

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Your having to defend such a notion is in itself proof that such isn't the case, especially considering you specifically noted that you refuse to adapt due to "external political interference".

I mean, the English you speak yourself is a bastardization of the english you claim your ancestors spoke. Language is dynamic, and it changes by its' very nature.

But I have nothing more to say on the matter. I'd rather just observe, for now. And am willing to admit the notion that I might be entirely wrong, and be content with such.
I am fine with organic change and evolution over time. I am not fine with political and foreign interference. All languages are bastards. I merely choose the prettiest one for my pet.

And anyway, my native language is Scots. My ancestors didn't even speak English. However, the Scots word for "Persia" is "Pers".
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
administrators, admins, assing, moderations, moderators, mods, no gifs allowed, regulations, rules, scrolls of lore, serious business, tag police

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.