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  #1326  
Old 04-27-2015, 03:47 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Daily reminder that Garithos was right!
He was the hero we needed.

We only had to listen.
  #1327  
Old 04-27-2015, 03:52 AM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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They were all wrong.

Sargeras was right.
  #1328  
Old 04-27-2015, 03:55 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Hourly reminder that Anduin is right 24/7.
  #1329  
Old 04-27-2015, 03:55 AM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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They were all wrong.

Sargeras was right.
Sargeras, Our true lord and savior
  #1330  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:12 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Hourly reminder that Anduin is right 24/7.
*twitch*
  #1331  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:21 AM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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*twitch*
Wonder if they will go ahead and change the story given how much everyone loves Anduin.
They could make him awesome but it will take some work
  #1332  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:24 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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As Rotal has pointed out, that's not how AU's logically work, but it's Blizzard's stance and they're controlling the laws of physics for the setting.
The problem is it's not even how Draenor seems to work.

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
He said Blizzard's official stance is that AU Draenor and MU Draenor were 100% identical before Garrosh arrived, with the exception of Garrosh not being born and Rulkan not dying.
That's a gigantic contradiction withint the same sentence even if one ignores the obvious quantum signature problem.
This is not an answer that's supposed to give an actual answer because, just like the long unanswered (and probably not thought about by them) question whether or not this is an alternate universe in the first place, they probably didn't think about the implications and are trying to cover their asses on that by simply not giving a shit and telling you to do the same.
  #1333  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:27 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Default Down with the Wrynn tyrants

Reminder that Varian Wrynn, King of Stormwind and of humanity, and High King of the Alliance of Azeroth, is never wrong.
  #1334  
Old 04-27-2015, 04:42 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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The problem is it's not even how Draenor seems to work.

That's a gigantic contradiction withint the same sentence even if one ignores the obvious quantum signature problem.


Another example of why this expansion's entire Story+Setting is fucking retarded.
  #1335  
Old 04-27-2015, 05:58 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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urgh.
  #1336  
Old 04-27-2015, 06:39 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
Which is far, far, far more than most races get.

You can try to downplay it, but I'm quite happy with what WOD has offered for draenei players, all in all, even if I might have issues with the execution of things like the Sargerai, and the schism which Karabor at the start of beta. The art team (as always) is working at 120%. The lore is pretty good, and I appreciate the inclusion of the Rangari and expansion of the Artificers. They've fleshed out the race considerably beyond what we got in TBC and I feel like the draenei are in a better place because of it.

ORCS, on the other hand, kind of got eviscerated in this expansion. I don't envy orc players.
I'm fairly happy with the lore orcs got in WoD. There's now a ton of lore behind the orc clans that were pretty much non-existent previously, and most importantly, it's lore from before the rise of the first Horde. It's done well enough that you can instantly tell which clan an orc is from purely from a visual, and instantly know a lot of probable personality traits and values about that specific orc, and that's evidence of really strong development. Orcish culture on the whole makes a lot more sense now, especially the whole "die before dishonor" bit (when you live on Planet Murder, it's rare to kick it to old age, so it makes sense for the orcs to adopt a blaze of glory attitude towards death). I also think it's going to be a lot, A LOT, easier for Blizzard to develop the non-Thrall savage side of the orcs without constantly being under the shadow of "but teh demonz!"

Sure, the orcs are again portrayed as jerks with a Napoleon complex, but that's their past. One of the key distinctions between the Alliance and Horde races is while the former uses lore and backstory as exposition and foundation to their current state, the Horde races use it as a foil to the culture they're maintaining in the present. Every Horde race has a major point of definition of NOT being who they once were, and that happening fairly recently. So the best way to enjoy orc story development is to embrace who they were to see where they are now, because it's very much a liminal sort of backstory that still hasn't concluded. And I'm really happy that we have more than fel corruption to go on now, because that always felt pretty artificial, and as a bonus there's enough seeds of the modern/Thrallian orc attitude in the AU/past to make their current state feel less forced.
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  #1337  
Old 04-27-2015, 06:41 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Hourly reminder that Anduin is right 24/7.
Aside from the part where he backed one of the biggest villains in recent victory as capable of redemption and then watched it all blow up in his face?
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  #1338  
Old 04-27-2015, 07:18 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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What differs blackrock from warsong? one is a smith the other is a wolf rider.

thunderlords are hunters (like they used to be), shattered hand,,,, welll duh.

frostwolves are Furries (this is backed up by some quote about them sleeping wit their wolves).

Shadowmoon are crazy shadow priests. Bleeding hollow are nothing special other than their leader stabbing their eye. and they turn into hulks due to blood radiation.

Laughing skulls are the only cool orcs of Badassery.

But hey we knew all of this already BEFORE WoD was released. (maybe not the thunderlord stuff.. I am surprised they used that clan at all. as it is more or less a lesser clan, but hey that it is an outcast clan is cool i guess.
  #1339  
Old 04-27-2015, 08:02 AM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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Originally Posted by Odok View Post
I'm fairly happy with the lore orcs got in WoD. There's now a ton of lore behind the orc clans that were pretty much non-existent previously, and most importantly, it's lore from before the rise of the first Horde. It's done well enough that you can instantly tell which clan an orc is from purely from a visual, and instantly know a lot of probable personality traits and values about that specific orc, and that's evidence of really strong development. Orcish culture on the whole makes a lot more sense now, especially the whole "die before dishonor" bit (when you live on Planet Murder, it's rare to kick it to old age, so it makes sense for the orcs to adopt a blaze of glory attitude towards death). I also think it's going to be a lot, A LOT, easier for Blizzard to develop the non-Thrall savage side of the orcs without constantly being under the shadow of "but teh demonz!"

Sure, the orcs are again portrayed as jerks with a Napoleon complex, but that's their past. One of the key distinctions between the Alliance and Horde races is while the former uses lore and backstory as exposition and foundation to their current state, the Horde races use it as a foil to the culture they're maintaining in the present. Every Horde race has a major point of definition of NOT being who they once were, and that happening fairly recently. So the best way to enjoy orc story development is to embrace who they were to see where they are now, because it's very much a liminal sort of backstory that still hasn't concluded. And I'm really happy that we have more than fel corruption to go on now, because that always felt pretty artificial, and as a bonus there's enough seeds of the modern/Thrallian orc attitude in the AU/past to make their current state feel less forced.
That would be a fine Idea if WoD didn't come right after an expansion where almost the entire orc race save the human raised Thrall and a pair of old men, were portrayed as jerks as bad as their forebears. The only point in WoW's storytelling where orcs showed some sign of not being asses was between WC3and the end of Burning Crusade.

Oh sure devs have said 'all orcs weren't like Garrosh'. The problem is that almost ever orc we were shown was like that. We saw almost no orcs actually opposed or against Garrosh's behaviour except a couple of refugees and people who had fallen foul of Garrosh for one reason or another. Notice the distinct lack of orcs among the rebels except for the token few towards the end of SoO?

WoW has pretty much portrayed orcs as jerks under the effects of demon blood, jerks when not being lead by a human raised leader and jerks before they even got hooked up with the BL. There jerkhood isn't their history. In fact it seems to be presenting orc jerkiness as an inherent part of their nature since it always seems to resurface.
  #1340  
Old 04-27-2015, 08:53 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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The hell happened with Anduin, this time ?
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  #1341  
Old 04-27-2015, 09:07 AM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
That would be a fine Idea if WoD didn't come right after an expansion where almost the entire orc race save the human raised Thrall and a pair of old men, were portrayed as jerks as bad as their forebears. The only point in WoW's storytelling where orcs showed some sign of not being asses was between WC3and the end of Burning Crusade.

Oh sure devs have said 'all orcs weren't like Garrosh'. The problem is that almost ever orc we were shown was like that. We saw almost no orcs actually opposed or against Garrosh's behaviour except a couple of refugees and people who had fallen foul of Garrosh for one reason or another. Notice the distinct lack of orcs among the rebels except for the token few towards the end of SoO?

WoW has pretty much portrayed orcs as jerks under the effects of demon blood, jerks when not being lead by a human raised leader and jerks before they even got hooked up with the BL. There jerkhood isn't their history. In fact it seems to be presenting orc jerkiness as an inherent part of their nature since it always seems to resurface.
And one could easily argue that the needless sins of the father mentality, combined with Daelin's unprovoked attack helped convince the new generation humans would only be assholes out to get them. The "it's all the orcs" is as shortsighted as "the alliance is the evils"
  #1342  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:07 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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The hell happened with Anduin, this time ?
Nothing, Nazja was just joining the meme.
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  #1343  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:10 AM
machstein machstein is offline

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Since the Burning Legion has shown up....are we going to see Tempest Keep pop up as well?
  #1344  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:16 AM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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I'm really glad the draenai got some love and lore.

Probably the only good thing to come oyt of the alpha/beta revamp.
  #1345  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:18 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
And one could easily argue that the needless sins of the father mentality, combined with Daelin's unprovoked attack helped convince the new generation humans would only be assholes out to get them. The "it's all the orcs" is as shortsighted as "the alliance is the evils"
I don't know. It's hard to say that when the Horde's first interaction with Humans was to try to genocide them. And Daelin's attack wasn't unprovoked, he was trying to defend the survivors of Lordaeron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
That would be a fine Idea if WoD didn't come right after an expansion where almost the entire orc race save the human raised Thrall and a pair of old men, were portrayed as jerks as bad as their forebears. The only point in WoW's storytelling where orcs showed some sign of not being asses was between WC3and the end of Burning Crusade.

Oh sure devs have said 'all orcs weren't like Garrosh'. The problem is that almost ever orc we were shown was like that. We saw almost no orcs actually opposed or against Garrosh's behaviour except a couple of refugees and people who had fallen foul of Garrosh for one reason or another. Notice the distinct lack of orcs among the rebels except for the token few towards the end of SoO?

WoW has pretty much portrayed orcs as jerks under the effects of demon blood, jerks when not being lead by a human raised leader and jerks before they even got hooked up with the BL. There jerkhood isn't their history. In fact it seems to be presenting orc jerkiness as an inherent part of their nature since it always seems to resurface.
The Orcs and the Horde in general would be more interesting if it wasn't the minority of Orcs who were with Garrosh but the majority. How do you deal with that as the Horde? How does Vol'jin deal with that? How does Thrall?
  #1346  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:36 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
And one could easily argue that the needless sins of the father mentality, combined with Daelin's unprovoked attack helped convince the new generation humans would only be assholes out to get them. The "it's all the orcs" is as shortsighted as "the alliance is the evils"
He says in the middle of a time travel expansion where we went back in time to when the Orcs were still isolated and they're still assholes.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
  #1347  
Old 04-27-2015, 10:39 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
And one could easily argue that the needless sins of the father mentality, combined with Daelin's unprovoked attack helped convince the new generation humans would only be assholes out to get them. The "it's all the orcs" is as shortsighted as "the alliance is the evils"
Orcs proves you wrong 24 hours of every day of every week of every month and of every year of the titan damned universe.
Daelin saw the orcish soul and acted. He was a paragon, a light in the dark.
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  #1348  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:05 AM
Vaximillian Vaximillian is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Orcs proves you wrong 24 hours of every day of every week of every month and of every year of the titan damned universe.
Daelin saw the orcish soul and acted. He was a paragon, a light in the dark.
Daelin died for your sins!
  #1349  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:15 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Since the Burning Legion has shown up....are we going to see Tempest Keep pop up as well?
Tempest Keep requires the Naaru to show up specifically so they can square off against the Legion. If Blizzard wanted to have them show up in force in a later patch, it might make sense, but even then, having them show up just so that they can get kicked out of their ship and it becomes a raid zone would really not help the Naaru narrative.
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  #1350  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:18 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Tempest Keep requires the Naaru to show up specifically so they can square off against the Legion. If Blizzard wanted to have them show up in force in a later patch, it might make sense, but even then, having them show up just so that they can get kicked out of their ship and it becomes a raid zone would really not help the Naaru narrative.
Tempest Keep and its satellites showed up because Draenor/Outland was going boom, not because the Legion was there or anything like that. They came to save the Draenei. Correct?
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