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Old 07-09-2014, 02:22 PM
>Hades< >Hades< is offline

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Orb of Frost Kel'Thuzad: dead or alive (well... undead)?

Sorry if there's already a thread about it.

But the fact that during Wrath we didn't found Kel'Thuzad phylactery, and Nyorloth's words (survived two separate Lich Kings), I really think that Kel'Thuzad is still out there.

Imho there's a lot of potential: we can even remember about the two "missing" Blood Princes: Prince Theraldis & Prince Atherann. We saw them just in the quest "out of body experience", so those two now can be here, working with Kel'Thuzad.

Where they're hiding? During Wrath we just saw a little portion of Azjol Nerub, so they may be there, maybe plotting to take the dormant Scourge from Bolvar (or even "employing" some intelligent Scourge, like Sylvanas did for the Val'kyrs).

Another thing... last time we saw the Book of Medivh, it was in the skeletal hands of Kel'Thuzad. It's logical that he still has it.

We know that Scourge and Legion are not exactly "friends", but in the past Kel'thuzad made a pact with Balnazzar to kill the Ashbringer. Now that the Scourge is basically no more, maybe Kel'thuzad can make another pact with it. And since he was able to summon Archimonde, he could even do that with Kil'Jaeden!

If that feats was only possible due to the "power location" of Dalaran... Let's remember Malygos: he redirected a lot of Azeroth ley lines in the Nexus, and IIRC, most of the Blue Dragonflight abandoned it.

Who knows, maybe Kel'thuzad WILL return, and his return will be devastating.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:53 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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The safest thing to say is that he's laying low with surviving cult members, the two blood princes included. I guess they hide in really deep caverns below Northrend where no living or even Ebon Blade would bother searching.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:02 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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I'm sure he'll come up again whenever we come around the the Scourge storyline again (which, let's be honest, is gonna happen. Bolvar being the LK was obviously made with that in mind).

Where he is now? Probably hiding out somewhere in the Azjol-Nerub cave system. If that place really does stretch underneath all of Northrend, then it's perfect to hide in.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:04 PM
>Hades< >Hades< is offline

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Being undead, time is on his side...

However I always felt that he was REALLY underused in wrath: he was basically the number 2 of the Scourge, and besides Naxxramas, he just appeared once in a quest in Borean Tundra.

And since the whole "there always must be *dramatic thunder* a Lich King" resolution to wrath storyline wasn't so satisfying (ok, let's say it straight: it was complete bullshit) we can hope that in the future, Kel'thuzad return may give us a decent resolution to the whole thing.

We can always dream... or write fanfics

About Bolvar... His spirit of sacrifice and righteousness was truly sublime... but he was controlled once by Onyxia, through the drakefire amulet. I'm pretty sure that the Helm of Domination is stronger so... will Bolvar truly last?

I don't put in discussion his good heart or intentions, but the whole "jayler of the damned" may be simply too much.

And it would be an AMAZING twist if that's all a gambit by Ner'zhul: leading Arthas to his defeat, to find another "host", decieving him with the whole "there always must be *dramatic thunder* a Lich King". Let's say it: something totally in line with the mastermind that was warcraft 3 Ner'zhul, and something that can justify Arthas MORONIC behaviour during Wrath.

Last edited by >Hades<; 07-09-2014 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:14 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Bolvar ain't going nowhere as long the Ebon Blade are guarding Icecrown. But you could have the master necromancer Kel'thuzad manage to control them since they're undead, kill Bolvar in his dormant state and deliver the helm to Kel.

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 07-09-2014 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:54 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Originally Posted by >Hades< View Post

We know that Scourge and Legion are not exactly "friends", but in the past Kel'thuzad made a pact with Balnazzar to kill the Ashbringer. Now that the Scourge is basically no more, maybe Kel'thuzad can make another pact with it. And since he was able to summon Archimonde, he could even do that with Kil'Jaeden!

I
Was it a pact? It is a long time since I've read the Ashbringer comic but I do not think there was any pact between them. Or?
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:25 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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He's actually in the Undercity and controlling all of Sylvanas' actions through the Val'kyr. Teron Gorefiend will join the Horde Player-Characters in defeating Kel'thuzad one final time, consuming his Phylactery to gain his power, before joining the Horde as Sylvanas' Majordomo.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:06 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
He's actually in the Undercity and controlling all of Sylvanas' actions through the Val'kyr. Teron Gorefiend will join the Horde Player-Characters in defeating Kel'thuzad one final time, consuming his Phylactery to gain his power, before joining the Horde as Sylvanas' Majordomo.
Then, one or two expansions down the line, it turns out (cough) Sylvanas is evil, and the undead Orc gets to lead the Forsaken, too!
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And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:31 AM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by >Hades< View Post
But the fact that during Wrath we didn't found Kel'Thuzad phylactery, and Nyorloth's words (survived two separate Lich Kings), I really think that Kel'Thuzad is still out there.
Well, he is a lich with a phylactery. So he cannot be destroyed until his phylactery is still out there. And according to the UVG, Kel'Thuzad is still 'alive'. It means that we failed to find his phylactery in WotLK. The same goes for Rivendare, who can always be resurrected by the archlich.

But it doesn't mean that Kel'Thuzad is in his undead body now. His spirit may still be within the phylactery. Maybe the heroes will find it sooner than the Cult of the Damned.

Quote:
Where they're hiding? During Wrath we just saw a little portion of Azjol Nerub, so they may be there, maybe plotting to take the dormant Scourge from Bolvar (or even "employing" some intelligent Scourge, like Sylvanas did for the Val'kyrs).
The Nerubians started to rebuild their empire, so I doubt that the Cult could have chosen choose this kingdom as a base of operations.

Quote:
We know that Scourge and Legion are not exactly "friends", but in the past Kel'thuzad made a pact with Balnazzar to kill the Ashbringer. Now that the Scourge is basically no more, maybe Kel'thuzad can make another pact with it. And since he was able to summon Archimonde, he could even do that with Kil'Jaeden!
Pact with that dread lord? I don't remember this thing happening.

You should remember that Kel'Thuzad was extremely loyal to the Scourge and he is not a friend of the demonhood. He is their enemy.

As for the Blood Princes and the Book of Medivh - it's possible. The two elves didn't die on screen. The book was last seen in the hands of Kel'Thuzad.
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:35 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Pact with that dread lord? I don't remember this thing happening.
I also forgot about it, but that's a thing.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:15 AM
>Hades< >Hades< is offline

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I know that Scourge & Legion aren't allies, but Kel'thuzad & Balnazzar made a path to deal with Alexandros Mograine: the bane of the Scourge would be destroyed, and the dreadlords' agendas would continue.

A similar thing happened even during Cata: before Ragnaros was at war with Nefarian, but during Cata, the black dragonflight was allied with Ragnaros' forces.

Alliance and Horde aren't the only 2 factions that can set aside their differences

Now that the Legion has no way to reach Azeroth, and the Scourge power is crumbled, they may do an opportunistic alliance.

Another thing... do we know where the arcane prison with Chromatus body is?

Reanimating him (into undeath this time) may bring a VERY powerful ally in the hands of Kel'thuzad, especially now that the Aspects are depowered.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:25 AM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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but Kel'thuzad & Balnazzar made a path to deal with Alexandros Mograine: the bane of the Scourge would be destroyed, and the dreadlords' agendas would continue.
In what part was it?
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:09 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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In what part was it?
I think Road to Damnation mentions it.

Edit: Nope. Seems like it was the Ashbringer, after all.

Last edited by Nazja; 07-10-2014 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:27 AM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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I think there was no pact.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:35 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I think there was no pact.
Found it.

http://wowpedia.org/Corrupted_Ashbri...onastery_Event
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:11 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Sadly, I highly doubt that it's still canon. While I usually think that the storylines from Classic WoW, that were later told differently, are still more or less accurate, I'm really not sure about this one.

Some examples. It's still possible that Kel'Thuzad had the shards of Atiesh. Prequests for the fight against Onyxia may still be partially canon with the exception of the big fight in Stormwind and the showdown against the dragon.

But this issue is a bit different. The confrontation of the PC is most likely retconned with the lookalike scene with Darion. But it's not the main thing. The thing is that parts of the dialogue are non-canon. Like, the Outland stuff.
All in all, this storyline was dropped and was told differently in the Ashbringer comic. There was no sign of the Balnazzar's alliance with the Scourge. Apparently, his only secret alliance was the one with his brother.

Long story short, it smells like retcon. It's worth tweeting, but this question is too long for Twitter.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:18 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Loreology once confirmed that some parts are non-canon, such as the Mograine on Outland. Not sure about the whole chain but presumably retconned too.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:26 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Yeah, I also think that most is non-canon, but I'd say that the pact is likely still canon, considering how it played out in the comic.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:31 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Yeah, I also think that most is non-canon, but I'd say that the pact is likely still canon, considering how it played out in the comic.
Strangely, I've had not an impression that Kel'Thuzad and Balnazzar had a pact in the Ashbringer.

I must say, that it's a hell of a question.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:38 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Strangely, I've had not an impression that Kel'Thuzad and Balnazzar had a pact in the Ashbringer.

I must say, that it's a hell of a question.
The Scourge army being there to ambush Fairbanks and Alexandros exactly when Renault needed it was a little too convenient.
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Old 07-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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The Scourge army being there to ambush Fairbanks and Alexandros exactly when Renault needed it was a little too convenient.
Yes, you are right, it's kinda suspicious.

But come to think of it, Ashbringer was an obstacle for the Scourge, they could've ambushed him anyway. And it's not much of a stretch for his son to be on a mission with him.
Maybe Balnazzar wasn't on league with Kel'Thuzad there, but he learned about the ambush and ordered Renault to join his father. There are many possibilities for this kind of scenario.

I still doubt the alliance between these two evil guys. Mainly because it wasn't mentioned in the comic. But, hey, who knows, maybe this alliance wasn't retconned. Maybe I'll tweet it.
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Old 07-10-2014, 02:51 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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I don't think there was any sort of pact. I'm certain that the scourge and the legion were not on good terms after the shit Arthas pulled. I think that Balnazzar simply wanted Alexandros dead so he corrupted Rennault to do the dirty work. Which in turn, allowed Kel'Thuzad, who probably happened to have been there, to collect the corpse and convert him to the scourge.
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Old 07-10-2014, 03:12 PM
>Hades< >Hades< is offline

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I found another char that appeared during Wrath and then just... disappeared.

http://wowpedia.org/Salanar_the_Horseman

Leader of the Dark Rider of Acherus. Even he may be in "team Kel'tuzad" for a possible return of the Scourge as a force of evil.

And about Kel'thuzad's power... Imho there are a lot of elements that suggests than canonwise the Lich is VERY powerful:

Before the Second War he was one of The Six in Dalaran, implying that he was already a very powerful wizard. Then he got his knowledge of the dark arts of necromancy. And I'm pretty sure that being transformed into a lich with the powers of the Sunwell is nothing to sneeze at.
Even at the end of the Ashbringer comic, the "holy light nuclear bomb" triggered by Darion's sacrifice obliterated the Scourge minions, but Kel'thuzad was unaffected.

And even counting the Book of Medivh, summoning Archimonde is no small feat.

And the fact that Kael & Vashj had to use his portal to reach Outland, instead of just opening one (like Illidan did), imho implies that Kel'thuzad magical power is stronger than their. And we know that Kael & Vashj are no pushovers.

Last edited by >Hades<; 07-10-2014 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:39 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Necromancy, soul binding, undead construct, a Dark One? What if the necromancer was an acolyte of Kel sent to sabotage or assassinate public figures like Taylor? What if there are more cultists out there?!!
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  #25  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:22 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Kel'Thuzad is coming back for sure, he's a lich, that's what he does. We didn't destroy his phylactery in Wrath so he's probably been alive again since Cataclysm
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