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Old 10-25-2019, 09:20 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Default Why Daelin is largely to blame for Garrosh's rise to power

You know I've seen a lot of Daelin fanboys on this forum try to say that he should have totally just committed genocide and killed all the orcs. Thing is.....Those people are idiots and ignore a lot of key context.

Even leaving aside that there are Orcs who have proven to be noble (Thrall, the Saurfang Clan, Golluck Rockfist, Gakorg, Grunn'holde, Gorganna, Etrigg, Shagara, Malgar, Rexxar, Drek'Thar, Geyah, Jaruk Bloodfyre) or at the very least not easy to pin down (Durotan and Draka could have done more to oppose the genocide but ultimately Durotan DID try to move against Gul'dan even if he got murdered for it, Gar'thok is shown not to like the alliance but still rises against Garrosh, Nazgrel flat out hates Garrosh but follows out of a sense of loyalty to the position even if the guy in charge is a psycho, Grom did a lot of stupid things but he does regret his options and in the final key moment he ultimately chooses to fight Mannoroth rather than succumb a third time etc) both of which prove the idea that orcs are intrinsically or genetically evil is.....well idiotic, they ignore something. Context.

Most of the orcs alive today are the children of those who actually committed war crimes. They didn't actively take part in those crimes and yet they were STILL beaten shat on and forced to live in their own vomit. That's going to breed anger and resentment no matter how you spin it, so many orcs are already going to have a lot of anger against the alliance (hell that's Burx's freudian excuse in Cycle of Hatred). In spite of that they STILL try to coexist with the Alliance after Hyjal. By all accounts they were honoring the truce with Jaina Proudmore in the aftermath and things were if not happy utopia kumbayah reasonably civil........and than Daelin suddenly appeared, launching unprovoked attacks the whole shebang. He also tried to lure Thrall in under a flag of truce to kill him (which again considering that's what Orgrim did to Lothar pre retcon is the HEIGHT of hypocrisy), and shamelessly occupied his own daughter's kingdom to launch his war even though there were much more pressing matters (the scourge was running rampant for instance and refugees were dying.) Notably even AFTER Thrall and the orcs took Theramoore (which would have been the PERFECT time to completely stamp Theramore out forever with no difficulty) they still withdrew peacefully and allowed the Alliance government to be reestablished.

Even after Daelin died this sent a message to a lot of orcs. It doesn't matter how hard you try to change your ways. We will never forgive you and we will always try to kill you. So some orcs naturally concluded that the only way to survive was to kill the alliance first. That his renegades were still operating until the Cataclysm sure as shit didn't help matters.

There were other factors as well (when the alliance cut off trade in the aftermath of the Wrathgate it created mass starvation, the cataclysm lowered the amount of resources exponentially, Varian declaring his intent to attack even AFTER the Horde cleaned house and took down Varimathras, and yes certain elements of Orcish culture) but Daelin's actions were arguably the spark that lit the fuse. At the very least it was the first in a LONG line of tinder and gunpowder.

So no. Daelin wasn't a visionary. He was an idiot whose stupidity directly paved the way for Garrosh Hellscream's rise to power. Frankly the world would be better off if he'd sunk in the maelstrom.
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