Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Scrolls of Lore > Halls of Lordaeron

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10701  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:32 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Some people don't, some people do, that doesn't make the arts a waste of money or make the classes less impactful.
I think they should be harder and less emphasis should be placed on college when it comes to education and learning. There are other ways to learn and be informed. Having a more diverse array of backgrounds and perspectives will serve society a lot better.
Reply With Quote
  #10702  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:52 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,552
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I really don't think this is true. I know you're probably not talking in absolutes, but I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.
The numbers are there. Most people working on factories? Men. Most people working at PR? Women. You can keep pretending what you want, but it's pretty obvious to me who prefers the physical side of things, and who prefers the psychological one, generally speaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Also, for the record, software development isn't this zero-contact sport where you're alone the whole day. You're often working in teams, and even when you're not there are plenty of reasons to interact with other people on both professional and social terms.
Maybe if you work at a tech giant where you can be creative, take naps, and eat gummy bears all day. In a normal programming job, talking = noise = distraction = shut the fuck up. Concentration is a big deal, and it's usual to have separate tables and headphones to isolate yourself. Teams aren't about socializing, they're about checking progress, assigning tasks, and going back to work asap.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #10703  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:05 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

Master Worldbuilder
Anansi's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136

Orb of Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
The numbers are there. Most people working on factories? Men. Most people working at PR? Women. You can keep pretending what you want, but it's pretty obvious to me who prefers the physical side of things, and who prefers the psychological one, generally speaking.
I suppose it's inconceivable that there are other factors in play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Maybe if you work at a tech giant where you can be creative, take naps, and eat gummy bears all day. In a normal programming job, talking = noise = distraction = shut the fuck up. Concentration is a big deal, and it's usual to have separate tables and headphones to isolate yourself. Teams aren't about socializing, they're about checking progress, assigning tasks, and going back to work asap.
I take it you're describing your own office?

Yeah, noise is obnoxious, but you suck it up and work through it anyway. I've worked in a few different offices where people would talk over the cubicles or across the hall, and even one where this asshole would play some awful 'variety' music station during working hours. None of these places was Google.

And teams may not be about socializing, but they are social. Or do you have no friends at work?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
Reply With Quote
  #10704  
Old 06-30-2017, 08:03 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Reply With Quote
  #10705  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:30 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
The numbers are there. Most people working on factories? Men. Most people working at PR? Women. You can keep pretending what you want, but it's pretty obvious to me who prefers the physical side of things, and who prefers the psychological one, generally speaking.
I feel like you're ignoring a host of other factors aside from biology. Particularly the weight of history and implicit bias in hiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/careers/...rkers-are-male

Quote:
“I think a lot of it is about perception,” she says. “The reason I set up Chicks With Bricks was because you just couldn’t find any female role models; they weren’t publicised. There was an element of: ‘if you’re a woman in construction, you keep your head down, don’t talk about it and pretend you’re a bloke’.”
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10706  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:28 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

I don't know about construction but my brother completely forbids me to work at a manufacturing factory because of the kind of environment it is for women. It isn't the engineers that mistreat women. It is the people that work on the assembly line.

He told a story about how there was a woman that had a guy following her around and just kept shouting "You're an 11 baby!" over and over again while she ignored him.

In the USAF the communication squadron was always really female friendly I have felt. It was mostly men but it was more of the nerdy kind of men and not the dudebros. I have still heard things like "I never met a technically competent woman before," but that was rather rare. Your more macho type fields like Aircraft Mechanics were the rowdier ones. There was a shop that if they specifically requested me to come fix an issue my shop leader would instead send someone else.
Reply With Quote
  #10707  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:33 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

I've seen this around before a few times and wanted to see what folks think of it

Quote:
It just kills me when writers create franchises where like 95% of the speaking roles are male, then get morally offended that all of the popular ships are gay. It’s like, what did they expect?
https://3fluffies.tumblr.com/post/16...y-in-the-blues

Quote:
A lot of analyses propose that the overwhelming predominance of male/male ships over female/female and female/male ships in fandom reflects an unhealthy fetishisation of male homosexuality and a deep-seated self-hatred on the part of women in fandom. While it’s true that many fandoms certainly have issues gender-wise, that sort of analysis willfully overlooks a rather more obvious culprit.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that we have a hypothetical media franchise with twelve recurring speaking roles, nine of which are male and three of which are female.

(Note that this is actually a bit better than average representaton-wise - female representation in popular media franchises is typicaly well below the 25% contemplated here.)

Assuming that any character can be shipped with any other without regard for age, gender, social position or prior relationship - and for simplicity excluding cloning, time travel and other “selfcest”-enabling scenarios - this yields the following (non-polyamorous) possibilities:

Possible F/F ships: 3
Possible F/M ships: 27
Possible M/M ships: 36

TOTAL POSSIBLE SHIPS: 66

Thus, assuming - again, for the sake of simplicity - that every possible ship is about equally likely to appeal to any given fan, we’d reasonably expect about (36/66) = 55% of all shipping-related media to feature M/M pairings. No particular prejudice in favour of male characters and/or against female characters is necessary for us to get there.

The point is this: before we can conclude that representation in shipping is being skewed by fan prejudice, we have to ask how skewed it would be even in the absence of any particular prejudice on the part of the fans. Or, to put it another way, we have to ask ourselves: are we criticising women in fandom - and let’s be honest here, this type of criticism is almost exclusively directed at women - for creating a representation problem, or are we merely criticising them for failing to correct an existing one?
TL;DR
Since guys are given more screentime and speaking roles in media than women that's why all the fanart and fanfic is so gay.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10708  
Old 07-02-2017, 06:42 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,146

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I've seen this around before a few times and wanted to see what folks think of it



https://3fluffies.tumblr.com/post/16...y-in-the-blues



TL;DR
Since guys are given more screentime and speaking roles in media than women that's why all the fanart and fanfic is so gay.
That ignores the viewerships statistics
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #10709  
Old 07-02-2017, 06:47 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

People that ship other people are lame!
Reply With Quote
  #10710  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:06 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
That ignores the viewerships statistics
Elaborate?
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10711  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:14 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

Revenant - Moderator
Revenant's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,278

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
People that ship other people are lame!
This is probably the correct answer.

The entire premise is stupid. Who says that too many "ships" are too gay?

Then it goes into a statistical argument on how shippers are FORCED into gay ships due to the number of men on screen, while bigots say that women just like gay ships more.

So more women on screen will create less gay ships because statistics. Therefore, appease bigots by making different bigots angry about something else... this has to be trolling.
__________________
^Ignored again.

Okay. It is cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
Reply With Quote
  #10712  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:23 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
This is probably the correct answer.

The entire premise is stupid. Who says that too many "ships" are too gay?

Then it goes into a statistical argument on how shippers are FORCED into gay ships due to the number of men on screen, while bigots say that women just like gay ships more.

So more women on screen will create less gay ships because statistics. Therefore, appease bigots by making different bigots angry about something else... this has to be trolling.
You seem to be reading a much more... 'forceful' tone into it than I am. It's mostly sarcasm but it's not about anyone forcing anyone to do anything or attempting to 'appease' anyone
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10713  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:24 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
This is probably the correct answer.

The entire premise is stupid. Who says that too many "ships" are too gay?

Then it goes into a statistical argument on how shippers are FORCED into gay ships due to the number of men on screen, while bigots say that women just like gay ships more.

So more women on screen will create less gay ships because statistics. Therefore, appease bigots by making different bigots angry about something else... this has to be trolling.
The ships wouldn't have to be monogamous either if we are throwing cultural norms out of the window. You could have 1 female in a relationship with 3 males.
Reply With Quote
  #10714  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:28 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

Revenant - Moderator
Revenant's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,278

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You seem to be reading a much more... 'forceful' tone into it than I am. It's mostly sarcasm but it's not about anyone forcing anyone to do anything or attempting to 'appease' anyone
Then it is a sarcastic joke that is not really saying anything.
__________________
^Ignored again.

Okay. It is cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
Reply With Quote
  #10715  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:38 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Then it is a sarcastic joke that is not really saying anything.
Trolls on the internet get mad at women for enjoying things and making gay art/fic, woman points out that it's a statistically normal amount of gayness, trolls can either let folks enjoy their gay shit or concede that women should have more speaking roles in media

It feels like a fun observation and you are being a grumpy gus about it.

EDIT: Read this with tone of frivolity ^
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/

Last edited by Mutterscrawl; 07-02-2017 at 09:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10716  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:41 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

Revenant - Moderator
Revenant's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,278

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Trolls on the internet get mad at women for enjoying things and making gay art/fic, woman points out that it's a statistically normal amount of gayness, trolls can either let folks enjoy their gay shit or concede that women should have more speaking roles in media

It feels like a fun observation and you are being a grumpy gus about it.
A troll trolled a troll. Is levity expected due to her EXTREME wit?
__________________
^Ignored again.

Okay. It is cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
Reply With Quote
  #10717  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:45 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
A troll trolled a troll. Is levity expected due to her EXTREME wit?
Alright, it's not to your liking, your reaction still strikes me as a bit over the top though. How DARE she make this statistical observation.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10718  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:48 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

Revenant - Moderator
Revenant's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,278

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Alright, it's not to your liking, your reaction still strikes me as a bit over the top though. How DARE she make this statistical observation.
Heh.
__________________
^Ignored again.

Okay. It is cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Ten.

Years.
Reply With Quote
  #10719  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:50 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

I don't think you were aggressive Revenant!
Reply With Quote
  #10720  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:53 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Heh.
Well I asked what folks thought and now I know but I'm still puzzled by your reaction.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10721  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:13 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

Elune
PajamaSalad's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Undisclosed location in the Universe.
Posts: 42,139

Default

San Francisco To Pay Undocumented Immigrant $190K For Violating Sanctuary Policy

This is pretty outrageous. Why are Democrats trying to nullify federal law again?
Reply With Quote
  #10722  
Old 07-03-2017, 03:27 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

Elune
Ruinshin's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 21,146

Default


I admit, I lol'd
__________________
Fucking Epic :X
Reply With Quote
  #10723  
Old 07-04-2017, 08:32 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

Master Worldbuilder
Anansi's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136

Orb of Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
TL;DR
Since guys are given more screentime and speaking roles in media than women that's why all the fanart and fanfic is so gay.
I guess I'm fashionably late, as usual, but I think maybe people are peeved when audiences ship their characters to be gay because, I don't know, the story wasn't meant to be about sex? Probably not true of every case your link is thinking about, but it's kind of why I get pissy about people who ship Frodo and Sam.

I could go on and on about how 'love' doesn't really mean anything anymore, if it ever did, and how there are more important and stronger bonds than lust that can exist between two people (whatever their respective sexes), but basically what I'm trying to say is that shippers need to take a hard look at themselves and ask 'does this treat the original story with respect?'

But sure, yeah, more female roles in fiction. Absolutely. But don't use this as an excuse to debase perfectly decent and powerful stories just because your fevered mind demands imagined sexy times.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
Reply With Quote
  #10724  
Old 07-04-2017, 09:01 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,527

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I guess I'm fashionably late, as usual, but I think maybe people are peeved when audiences ship their characters to be gay because, I don't know, the story wasn't meant to be about sex? Probably not true of every case your link is thinking about, but it's kind of why I get pissy about people who ship Frodo and Sam.

I could go on and on about how 'love' doesn't really mean anything anymore, if it ever did, and how there are more important and stronger bonds than lust that can exist between two people (whatever their respective sexes), but basically what I'm trying to say is that shippers need to take a hard look at themselves and ask 'does this treat the original story with respect?'

But sure, yeah, more female roles in fiction. Absolutely. But don't use this as an excuse to debase perfectly decent and powerful stories just because your fevered mind demands imagined sexy times.

I'm just gonna say there's plenty of gay fic that doesn't have people having sex

Character can fall in love with a lady and not have sex with them, character can fall in love with a guy and not have sex with them


Just look at the Lego batman movie
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/

Last edited by Mutterscrawl; 07-04-2017 at 10:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10725  
Old 07-04-2017, 09:04 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

Master Worldbuilder
Anansi's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136

Orb of Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I'm just gonna say there's plenty of gay fic that doesn't have people having sex

Character can fall in love with a lady and not have sex with them, character can fall in love with a guy and not have sex with them


Just look at the Lego batman movie
Quibble all you like. Last I checked Gay = Homosex

We're back to 'love' having no meaning as long as the goalposts are in flux.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
realspace, serious business

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.