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Old 06-02-2011, 04:33 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Panda Manual The Draenei: Neglected for two expansions now.

I'm gonna copy-paste an old thread I made on another forum. It feels like all the active threads here seem to be following the same narrative, so gonna post this to hopefully divert conversation a bit:



Draenei had it good in The Burning Crusade, which is kinda to be expected anyway seeing as that was the expansion they were properly introduced in. While there were pseudo-Draenei in Classic WoW that played a very minor role, the developers cannot be blamed for this because nobody was a Draenei back then so nobody could have felt slighted. The Draenei were one of the big-players of the first expansion and that was good thing. Not only was there the actual Outland and Azuremyst content, the developers also added a handful of Draenei NPCs around Azeroth(like in the Hinterlands, Darkshire and Plaguelands) to help integrate them better into the world. I didn't believe they went far enough, but they had some degree of integration back then with the old world.



Wrath of the Lich King proved to be a different issue. It's a fair argument to make that because the Draenei were so major in the previous expansion, it makes sense for them to have a "cooldown" period. However, this cooldown period didn't seem to apply the Blood Elves who were one of the biggest playable races to have an input into Wrath's story. Off the top of my head, I can remember about three named Draenei that featured in Northrend. That's about it. There was a (pretty weak, in my opinion) in-game excuse as to why the Draenei were doing nothing because General Arlos in the Borean Tundra was manipulated into rejecting Draenei aid.



I draw the line at Cataclysm's treatment however. I think it is in way fair how the Draenei have been treated in the incoming expansion, and here's why:


  • *They were the only race not to get any new class-combinations. I'm actually really interested in the lore, so don't mistake my view here. I do believe the lore to be very important but I also believe that it was entirely feasible to come up with something to justify at least one new class-combo. Satyrs have hooves and are excellent rogues, so it should be plausible that a Draenei Rogue could have existed. A Draenei Warlock could also have been explained as one of the few "uncorrupted" Warlocks that use demons against other demons: fighting fire with fire essentially. I'd probably agree with you that any argument for a Draenei Druid would be weak.
  • *Their starting zone received no update. Wait, sorry, there was one: there's now a new flightmaster. Yay! I believe it's a hypocritical position to say "We're gonna reforge Azeroth!" and then only redo only certain portions. It should be all or nothing when it comes to starting zones, in my view. It's also impossible to fly in either of the TBC starting zones. I was incredibly disappointed when Tom Chilton said that Azuremyst and Quel'Thalas didn't get any upgrade because they were considered unimportant.
  • *Their racial counterparts, the Blood Elves, receive considerably more focus. I'm not arguing that there should be 100% parity between the factions, but to compare the Draenei situation with the Blood Elf one in Cataclysm and say it's been reasonably equal is wrong. The Blood Elves get an entirely new, awesome faction(The Reliquary), have the Rommath cultist story(which is on hold for now), involvement with Zul'Aman as well as just generally more representation and involvement in the over-arching lore. I also reject the argument that because the Blood Elves are supposedly "more Warcraft" than the Draenei so that's why they aren't being marginalized. If you're going to add a race, then you should support the race. How unacceptable would it be if Blood Elves were told "Sorry, the Draenei are more important than you so we're not gonna support your race anymore." A writer's job is to write and if they can't keep the Draenei relevant then they're not doing their job very well.
  • *The Draenei are still not integrated with the world. It's been two expansions now(around four/five in-game years), the Draenei should have made at least some mark on Azeroth. They have about three NPCs in Ashenvale, a couple of generic Earthern Ring members, a minor scripted scene in Swamp of Sorrow and that's about it. Forest Song is in pretty much the same state as it was in TBC. I honestly don't understand how Blizzard can admit that they handled the integration of the TBC races poorly and then not fix the very mistake they themselves acknowledged with Cataclysm's revamps. Look at the shear scale of representation the Goblins are receiving, they've got more out of this expansion than several other races have gotten in years put together!




If common rumour is to believed and that we're gonna be heading off to the Emerald Nightmare or the Southern Seas next expansion, I dread to think that the Draenei's marginalization will look like. Assuming we even do go to Argus, the Draenei homeworld(or more accurately: the demon homeworld), will the Draenei get some attention then? Is it fair to say "Draenei fans: Shut up and just wait three or four expansions and you might get some attention then if we even decide to go there"?



Cataclysm was meant to be Blizzard's big chance to shake-up the story and redo the old world; to put the Draenei at the back of the line is just wrong. Again, I'm not asking for the Draenei to dominate the expansion. I'm just asking for reasonably fair treatment in comparison to the other races. I, and I believe more than a few other people, believe that the Draenei should have been given a bigger input. There were a lot of zones out there and a lot of room for potential story hooks. I'm calling on Blizzard to re-consider things and give the Draenei some love.



Thank you for reading!

Last edited by Shaman; 06-02-2011 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:04 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Totally agreed, and I'm glad to see someone else who actually thinks that Draenei warlocks could work. I got so damn tired of people elsewhere shooting that down. "The Draenei wouldn't allow them!" Well, yeah, "normal" Warlocks, sure. But Blizzard introduced a twist for the Paladins this expansion (Tauren Sunwalkers) that worked just fine (ok, some people may find it odd, but it still works for them), so why couldn't the same happen for Warlocks? For pete's sake, the Exodar has a whole hall devoted to knowledge on the various demon races. Portray Draenei Warlocks as (maybe a bit zealous, that's no far stretch for them really) Demon-Specialists, taking some glee in using allies of their twisted cousins against them. Boom, done.

/rant

It really does piss me off, all around. I can buy not really updating their starting zones, as sucky as that is. Would be nice, especially the Draenei as it seems to exist in such a weird temporal place at this point, but c'est la vie.

But the class issue above, and my other pet peeve, not integrating them? Especially, as you point out, Forest Song. That...that...they update Ashenvale as much as they do, and they just leave Forest Song alone? Seriously? Its perfectly placed! Have it fortified, it sits upriver from Orgrimmar, just west of the backdoor to Orgrimmar in Azshara, ensconced amongst the trees. Build up some Draenei walls and buildings, add in some NE trees and the like, and you have a fortified base perfectly placed. Yet...nothing. The Draenei artificers there must've taken some lessons from the builders in Redridge and Westfall.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:05 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I wholeheartedly agree: the draenei are the only Alliance race I actually like, and more focus on them would have been wonderful.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Old 06-02-2011, 05:44 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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*They were the only race not to get any new class-combinations. I'm actually really interested in the lore, so don't mistake my view here. I do believe the lore to be very important but I also believe that it was entirely feasible to come up with something to justify at least one new class-combo. Satyrs have hooves and are excellent rogues, so it should be plausible that a Draenei Rogue could have existed. A Draenei Warlock could also have been explained as one of the few "uncorrupted" Warlocks that use demons against other demons: fighting fire with fire essentially. I'd probably agree with you that any argument for a Draenei Druid would be weak.
The thing is, the Draenei aren't... "dark". They're the most light-focused race in the game. They bathe in the light, crap light, hell, they take the light and rub it on their balls in the shower. Draenei and light? It's like Keenan and Kel. Just goes together. Rogues and warlocks? That's dark, yo. Rogues can't function without shadow, and I seriously don't see the draenei of adopting a "fight fire with fire" mentality. They're really one of the few races that have such a strongly defined theme that they really couldn't cast the net any wider for more classes in Cata.

Quote:
*Their starting zone received no update. Wait, sorry, there was one: there's now a new flightmaster. Yay! I believe it's a hypocritical position to say "We're gonna reforge Azeroth!" and then only redo only certain portions. It should be all or nothing when it comes to starting zones, in my view. It's also impossible to fly in either of the TBC starting zones. I was incredibly disappointed when Tom Chilton said that Azuremyst and Quel'Thalas didn't get any upgrade because they were considered unimportant.
While I'm not defending Blizz, you can't say that Cata wasn't rushed. Gameplay wise, the draenei and blood elf starting zones were more refined than the vanilla start zones. Remember WHY Cata was made- it was to attract and retain new subscribers. New subscribers don't have TBC, so from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense to update those zones, not to mention the fact that they're far less unbearable than, say, Vanilla Teldrassil.

Quote:
*Their racial counterparts, the Blood Elves, receive considerably more focus. I'm not arguing that there should be 100% parity between the factions, but to compare the Draenei situation with the Blood Elf one in Cataclysm and say it's been reasonably equal is wrong. The Blood Elves get an entirely new, awesome faction(The Reliquary), have the Rommath cultist story(which is on hold for now), involvement with Zul'Aman as well as just generally more representation and involvement in the over-arching lore. I also reject the argument that because the Blood Elves are supposedly "more Warcraft" than the Draenei so that's why they aren't being marginalized. If you're going to add a race, then you should support the race. How unacceptable would it be if Blood Elves were told "Sorry, the Draenei are more important than you so we're not gonna support your race anymore." A writer's job is to write and if they can't keep the Draenei relevant then they're not doing their job very well.
People love elves for some reason. Everyone wants to play them, and all the writers, when they aren't busy sucking Thrall's cock, want to write about them. Their mentality is easier to get a grip on than the holy space aliens, and they have more existing ties to storylines on Azeroth than the Draenei. They're more popular and easier to write about, that's why they got more attention. Is it right? Hell naw. But it's the truth.

Quote:
*The Draenei are still not integrated with the world. It's been two expansions now(around four/five in-game years), the Draenei should have made at least some mark on Azeroth. They have about three NPCs in Ashenvale, a couple of generic Earthern Ring members, a minor scripted scene in Swamp of Sorrow and that's about it. Forest Song is in pretty much the same state as it was in TBC. I honestly don't understand how Blizzard can admit that they handled the integration of the TBC races poorly and then not fix the very mistake they themselves acknowledged with Cataclysm's revamps. Look at the shear scale of representation the Goblins are receiving, they've got more out of this expansion than several other races have gotten in years put together!
It's a shame that, out of all the shit that was updated in Ashenvale... forest song wasn't. But this is part of the problem I mentioned before: I feel like Blizz really has trouble getting into the "mind" of Draenei and writing about them in the world. Furthermore, well, they're partially defined by how ALIEN they are. Integrating them into the world, unless it's done correctly (and I don't trust Blizz to do so), would remove that aspect of their lore.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I am expecting them to get shit loads more Lore within a next expac or patch abit like the huge bump the Trolls.

Although tbh i do think that they seem alot more intrigrated within the Alliance due to the Night Elves than the Blood Elves do with the Horde but that is a seperate problem that is anoying the crap out of me more and more.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:04 PM
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Overall, while Draenei should have gotten some focus at Forest Song, they don't really fit in. I'd imagine if/when the Argus expansion comes out it'll be filled with more than enough lore to make up lack of lore they've had.

Personally I'd like to see Draenei warlocks or even demon hunters who wanted to fight fire with fire but got locked up by Velen in cryostasis. Then he has to release them out of the prophecy of the coming war because they would play a big part in it. Added points for the leader of them being his daughter or wife. That's just my fun theory though.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:05 PM
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:51 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Overall, while Draenei should have gotten some focus at Forest Song, they don't really fit in. I'd imagine if/when the Argus expansion comes out it'll be filled with more than enough lore to make up lack of lore they've had.
I hope for similar, but just you watch, if an expansion like that ever comes, they'll be sidelined yet again. I hope, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

Quote:
The thing is, the Draenei aren't... "dark". They're the most light-focused race in the game. They bathe in the light, crap light, hell, they take the light and rub it on their balls in the shower. Draenei and light? It's like Keenan and Kel. Just goes together. Rogues and warlocks? That's dark, yo. Rogues can't function without shadow, and I seriously don't see the draenei of adopting a "fight fire with fire" mentality. They're really one of the few races that have such a strongly defined theme that they really couldn't cast the net any wider for more classes in Cata.
True about those two classes being "dark" but I could see a way to twist how Light-oriented they are in a way that works with Warlocks (at least a bit. I mean, obviously, all the spells wouldn't really fit in with this much, but just bear with me). We know the Draenei are very Light oriented. Some could be zealously so. Don't think of it so much as "fight fire with fire" but "We are 'redeeming' these demons and helping them redeem their brethren." To me, its no more a twist than "Tauren Paladins are really sun-druids." They're limited by game mechanics in being paladins, but in truth are quite different. Same could be true for Draenei Warlocks. How I see it, anyway.

And really, I would think of it more as Draenei and the Light being like Kel and Orange Soda.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Who loves orange soda?


But seriously, you guys are focusing on the demons but not the rest of the warlock spells. It's one thing to "redeem" a demon. It's another to suck the life and souls out of people.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:25 PM
Mandrabel Mandrabel is offline

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Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
I hope for similar, but just you watch, if an expansion like that ever comes, they'll be sidelined yet again. I hope, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised one bit.



True about those two classes being "dark" but I could see a way to twist how Light-oriented they are in a way that works with Warlocks (at least a bit. I mean, obviously, all the spells wouldn't really fit in with this much, but just bear with me). We know the Draenei are very Light oriented. Some could be zealously so. Don't think of it so much as "fight fire with fire" but "We are 'redeeming' these demons and helping them redeem their brethren." To me, its no more a twist than "Tauren Paladins are really sun-druids." They're limited by game mechanics in being paladins, but in truth are quite different. Same could be true for Draenei Warlocks. How I see it, anyway.

And really, I would think of it more as Draenei and the Light being like Kel and Orange Soda.
Or, on a similar note, have Draenei warlocks be Man'ari who are in the process of being redeemed. It would add an interesting tension to Draenei society. This is not to mention that, before, killing a Man'ari, the Draenei must always offer it a chance at redemption. If some accept, then, voila, Draenei warlocks.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:28 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Who loves orange soda?


But seriously, you guys are focusing on the demons but not the rest of the warlock spells. It's one thing to "redeem" a demon. It's another to suck the life and souls out of people.
Why? Dead, as I'm fond of saying, is dead.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:35 PM
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Why? Dead, as I'm fond of saying, is dead.
Because jamming someone's soul into a stone rather than letting it pass on to the afterlife is, in Warcraft, considered to be "a bad thing".
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:40 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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How do you integrate a race into a game about warfare, when they don't want to fight the other faction because they want to combine both factions into a "Army of Light" to fight the Burning Legion?

That's the biggest problem with them and Blizz seems not to be in a major hurry to change it.

I will admit that I was surprised to see the one draenei in the Hinterlands refer to the Forsaken as "abominations of the Light."

You want to integrate them into the world, and at least into actually having a reason to hate or dislike the Horde?

Let's turn them into witch hunters, and bring the Inquisition into Azeroth. It just really suits them instead of making them the boring, neutral wannabes that they are now.

When a member of your faction puts more time and effort into the two of the biggest neutral organizations than into your own faction, then you know you got serious problems.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:56 PM
Mandrabel Mandrabel is offline

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Originally Posted by KLRMNKY View Post
How do you integrate a race into a game about warfare, when they don't want to fight the other faction because they want to combine both factions into a "Army of Light" to fight the Burning Legion?

That's the biggest problem with them and Blizz seems not to be in a major hurry to change it.

I will admit that I was surprised to see the one draenei in the Hinterlands refer to the Forsaken as "abominations of the Light."

You want to integrate them into the world, and at least into actually having a reason to hate or dislike the Horde?

Let's turn them into witch hunters, and bring the Inquisition into Azeroth. It just really suits them instead of making them the boring, neutral wannabes that they are now.

When a member of your faction puts more time and effort into the two of the biggest neutral organizations than into your own faction, then you know you got serious problems.

There could easily be Draenei who see the Army of Light as being exclusively Alliance, with, perhaps, some or all Blood Elves due to their "conversion". Again, this could lead to some interesting racial plot points for the Draenei if they have to deal with factions within them who want to combine the Horde and Alliance, as well as those who want to keep them entirely separate.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:57 PM
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Let's turn them into witch hunters, and bring the Inquisition into Azeroth. It just really suits them instead of making them the boring, neutral wannabes that they are now.
I... really like this idea. I've not seen this suggested before and they actually fill a vacant role in Warcraft now that the Scarlets are gone. Just as the Forsaken appropriated a lot of themes from a defunct enemy (the Scourge), so can the Draenei, plus it keeps them nice and dogmatic and effectively alien by following a warped concept of justice.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:20 PM
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An inquisition? Nobody would expect that!



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Old 06-02-2011, 08:29 PM
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I... really like this idea. I've not seen this suggested before and they actually fill a vacant role in Warcraft now that the Scarlets are gone. Just as the Forsaken appropriated a lot of themes from a defunct enemy (the Scourge), so can the Draenei, plus it keeps them nice and dogmatic and effectively alien by following a warped concept of justice.
Do we really need another Scarlet Crusade that's doomed to failure?

Why not let them be the ones that root out and expose corruption, so the Alliance can actually win for once? They've dealt with it for longer than the Alliance has been around, so, why not let them be the public investigators that uncover plots against the Alliance, whether it be from the Horde, from within, or from the villain groups of the expansion.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:33 PM
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Do we really need another Scarlet Crusade that's doomed to failure?

Why not let them be the ones that root out and expose corruption, so the Alliance can actually win for once? They've dealt with it for longer than the Alliance has been around, so, why not let them be the public investigators that uncover plots against the Alliance, whether it be from the Horde, from within, or from the villain groups of the expansion.
...Because they don't have the right to do so? Only like half of the Alliance believes in the light and them "investigating heresy" should stop within their own borders, unless, of course, the plotline is about them overextending their influence.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:37 PM
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Velen has done more than Tyrande in the entirety of WoW.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:20 PM
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...Because they don't have the right to do so? Only like half of the Alliance believes in the light and them "investigating heresy" should stop within their own borders, unless, of course, the plotline is about them overextending their influence.
Actually, last time I checked, the majority of the Alliance races were Lightsworn.

Dwarves, Human, Draenei, Worgen, and some Gnomes.

Still don't know what to make of the Night Elf Priest watching over Uther's Tomb, but it's pretty safe to say very few, if any, Night Elves are Lightsworn, but I digress.

Ok, I'll buy the idea that they should be, as you put it, "investigating heresy", but I think making them a mirror image of the Scarlets with an Alliance insignia on them would be going too far, unless you had some idea that would differentiate them from the Scarlets.


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Velen has done more than Tyrande in the entirety of WoW.
And that, after going through her records from WC3 backwards, is depressing.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:34 PM
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Well if Draenei have such an affinity to magic, shouldn't they be able to pick up warlocks and druidism too? Ok, maybe warlocks is a personal choice but I don't see the harm in Draenei being druids.

And if Draenei's main theme is being well..aliens...well let them be aliens. Have them fly some flying saucers or some shit idk. Spark up a war with the Bilgewater Cartel.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:15 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Actually, last time I checked, the majority of the Alliance races were Lightsworn.

Dwarves, Human, Draenei, Worgen, and some Gnomes.

Still don't know what to make of the Night Elf Priest watching over Uther's Tomb, but it's pretty safe to say very few, if any, Night Elves are Lightsworn, but I digress.

Ok, I'll buy the idea that they should be, as you put it, "investigating heresy", but I think making them a mirror image of the Scarlets with an Alliance insignia on them would be going too far, unless you had some idea that would differentiate them from the Scarlets.
You could do it very easily.

It's just whenever I see the draenei and their love of the Light and the "worship" of the Naaru, I just see them turning into the Eccelsiatical and the Ordo Hereticus because their whole entire society basically revolves around their worship of the Light. It was the Naaru and the Light that saved them from being turned into demons and that devotion can border on fanatical, especially with how important the "Army of Light" is to them.

I thought that it was very curious that we haven't seen any type of interaction between them and the Church of the Holy Light and it would be perfect for them to start melding the two together and creating a new "Order of the Silver Hand" that would be the death knell of the Argent Crusade.

They don't have to be the Scarlets. Remember that the Scarlets treated everyone as "guilty regardless" and they didn't have a long range plan like the draenei do.

The draenei wouldn't be that way. I could see them as Ordo Hereticus, rooting out those within the Alliance that would turn to the BL, and those who would be easily corrupted- as the Draenei see it.

Then you can expand this out with the Forsaken. If a few of the draenei know see them as abominations of the Light, then it would make sense for them to start moving against them, perhaps using the justification that they turned to the BL before, and willingly and they will do it again and the "Army of the Light" must be purged of them...

Would be very interesting to see how far they will go with it...

Also, have the draenei test the Alliance and Horde to see if they truly are the members of the "Army of Light", then perhaps during that they find that one or two races cannot be part of it, and if you are not part of it....
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Mandrabel Mandrabel is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Well if Draenei have such an affinity to magic, shouldn't they be able to pick up warlocks and druidism too? Ok, maybe warlocks is a personal choice but I don't see the harm in Draenei being druids.

And if Draenei's main theme is being well..aliens...well let them be aliens. Have them fly some flying saucers or some shit idk. Spark up a war with the Bilgewater Cartel.
Draenei druids could easily be construed by Blizzard into existence. All it would really take is for some of the Draenei, influenced by the recent surge of shamanism within their culture alongside their close relations with the Night Elves, to have an appreciation for Druidism, start training in it to use in the healing of mutant life on the Azuremyst Isles, and, voila, Draenei order of druids. They could even implement it alongside Blood Elf druids next expansion or something, it would really make for a vastly more diverse Cenarion Circle, and maybe even a more integrated Draenei people.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:01 PM
Deft Deft is offline

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New and exciting. Shouldn't this topic (i.e. crap) be considered Story Forum fare by now? Yeah, we get it; the Draenei have been ignored.

The true question is: r fursaken evel?
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