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Old 08-04-2010, 01:29 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Default Using the Paladin/Death Knight approach with different schools of magic

The title says it all pretty much.

Paladins and Deathknights are the result of a magician being trained in close combat or a Knight being trained in the ways of magic, the Light and Necromancy (I've rolled Blood, Frost and Unholy into one. Sue me) respectively.

Why can't this be done with Shamanism, Fel or Arcane Magic or even Druidism?

I hate Med'sue as much as anyone but combining classes is something that has been done before so I see no reason why it can't be done again with a different magical base.

I'm gonna go ahead and go through my thoughts on combining the magic schools I mentioned above with "Warrior" skills, as Plate fighters seem to be the most common.

Shamanism - Easiest to say Enhancement Shaman and be done with it but more specifically what I'm getting at has already been done and to great effect, see Thrall. Ofcourse that probably says more about the character then the combination of skill sets but it is possible.

Fel Magic - There's nothing already established to suggest this is possible but it doesn't seem to hard, I could see 'Chaos Knights' as a possibility. Fel magic is based on a thirst for power, and being a warrior means the desire to always get stronger, they go well together if you ask me.

Arcane Magic - There's Kirin Tor "Battlemages" which appear to be what I'm talking about but we haven't properly seen them in action, mostly because the Kirin Tor has done jack all this expansion. Though I'd imagine it's possible, not every blockhead fighter is going to have the patience to study the arcane or every mage going to take well to combat training.

Druidism - I really can't see this one happening, but let Knaak write about Furion a bit more and he'll probably get a suit of armour and a 'Sword of Destiny' though. Joking aside, plate armour would probably be a hindrance when attempting to change forms. Though a Hunter and Druid combination is something of a match made in heaven in my mind.

Light - Battlepriests, hurr. Sorry.

Obviously what I said in the Arcane segment holds true for all of these, it's the individual that makes these combinations work but those that do succeed in mastering both arts could be made into an elite group like the original Paladins.

Also, please don't get me wrong I do not want any of these combinations as playable classes. I am a Warrior and have a firm hatred for both of the "Like a warrior but with X" classes so when I'm suggesting these ideas in my mind I see something like the Dark Rangers are today, special NPCs.

Ideas/thoughts/suggestions/flame and derailment are all very much welcome.

Edit: Thanks to the first two posters for deservedly pointing out how stupid I am, both Demon Hunters and especially Spell Breakers are exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Last edited by Stormcaller; 08-04-2010 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcaller View Post
Fel Magic - There's nothing already established to suggest this is possible
Demon hunters?

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Originally Posted by Stormcaller View Post
Druidism - I really can't see this one happening
Isnt that what feral druids really are already? Magic users who use their abilities to bolster their melee combat prowess?


Essentially all these classes can and do already exist, as you have listed examples of most of them.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:42 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
Demon hunters?

Isnt that what feral druids really are already? Magic users who use their abilities to bolster their melee combat prowess?


Essentially all these classes can and do already exist, as you have listed examples of most of them.
I am many kinds of stupid for forgetting Demon hunters,

With Feral Druids I always assumed it was the magic that granted them said combat prowess, I can't really picture a "Learn to fight like a cat" lesson for Druids.

I suppose so, but they are few and far between. I was thinking more for use in each factions armies as specialist group, again Dark Rangers.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:54 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Arcane Magic: Blood Elf Spellbreakers
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:08 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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An enchancement shaman is pretty damn good with dual wield last time i checkd
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:10 PM
Dunm Dunm is offline

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I still maintain that it would have been awesome if Discipline Priests had basically been depicted as monks. Priests could have had a tanking tree!
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Arcane Magic: Blood Elf Spellbreakers
I love being made a fool of so much, best way to learn. No sarcasm there. Thank you.

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An enchancement shaman is pretty damn good with dual wield last time i checkd
I suppose accepting Demon Hunters and not Enhys is unfair but when there is already the absolutely perfect example of the idea already in lore I kinda skimmed over them.


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I still maintain that it would have been awesome if Discipline Priests had basically been depicted as monks. Priests could have had a tanking tree!
There with ya' mate, though I wonder how actual monks feel about being potrayed as immortal badasses capable of destroying anything that looks at them funny.

Last edited by Stormcaller; 08-04-2010 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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I love being made a fool of so much, best way to learn. No sarcasm there. Thank you.
This does not make you a fool. I would love to see spell breakers in the game as a hero class. Some people cite Protection Warriors as spell breakers, but they are not as geared towards anti-magic as spell breakers.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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This does not make you a fool. I would love to see spell breakers in the game as a hero class. Some people cite Protection Warriors as spell breakers, but they are not as geared towards anti-magic as spell breakers.
Can't happen I'm afraid.

I'll show you:

*Blizz introduces Spell breaker*
Spell Breakers dominate and spell based classes and specs
Large percentage of the community: WAAAAAAAAAAH
Blizzard: Ok, we'll fix it.
*Nerfs Spell breakers so badly they can't be realistically called Spell breakers*

That name of theirs is their own gate to being playable, Spell Breakers implies an advantage over anything that relies on mana, which makes for bad game balance.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:53 PM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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I do hope we're done with the melee fighter using x magic to become a melee caster, 3 platewearers is pretty much enough for now methinks, and if they make another plate class, that one would probably also be a tank. Death knights have shown that most people don't want to tank, no matter what class it is or how you play it(DK were basicly 3 tanks in 1 class). I'ld suggest a DPS/DPS/Healer class to be next in line.
With that said, there aren't that many melee-casters left
-Spellbreakers lost potential abilities to the DK(anti-magic shell,anti-magic zone,..) and warriors (shield bash etc.)
- a frost battle-mage was lost with the DK's Frost tree
- a fire battle-mage lost their potential with enhancement shamans(lava lash,soon-to-be Maelstrom weapon Lava Bursts, flametongue, fire shock) and fire mages (dragon's breath, blast wave, firestarter's insta-flamestrikes)
- demon hunters lost some of their abilities to demonology warlocks and death knights, might not have enough uniqueness to make the cut
- Shadow hunters lost much of their potential to shadow priests, shamans and death knights

There doesn't seem that much left for those kinds of classes, I think the developers sort of gave abilities from other classes to the already existing ones because they didn't have enough flare to make it as a unique class on its own.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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Wait what's going on in here?

1. Spellbreakers need a spellbook that's different than Mages and Priests.
2. Spellbreakers need a way to derive hit from Spirit on all the spellplate.

Mages in plate would just be AOE specialists with long cooldowns on single attacks and reduced cooldowns on Spellsteals and Interrupts.

I got a couple ideas, but it gets cooky when you start building tier sets.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:16 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Mages in plate would just be AOE specialists with long cooldowns on single attacks and reduced cooldowns on Spellsteals and Interrupts.
Spell breakers are pretty much mages in plate that fight fire with watery fire.

They are trained to combat spellcasters using fine-tuned and specialized spells along with considerable physical fighting skills.

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-Spellbreakers lost potential abilities to the DK(anti-magic shell,anti-magic zone,..) and warriors (shield bash etc.)
Sorry to snip this out from the rest but I'm just trying to clear up all the Spell Breaker business.

Spell Breakers imo are more about the absorbtion and reapplication of Mana (Remember they were prominent when the stuff was literally cocaine for the Blood Elves) then simply stopping or destroying it, with the exception of Feedback.

Consider Spell Steal and Control magic for example. Whereas AMS and AMZ are more 'can't touch this' in regards to magic.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Well, you've said it yourself, Spellsteal, it's already on mages, and except for a few gimmick fights(and pvp) they don't serve much purpose.
I see where you're going at with spellbreakers(like the paladins in Dragon Age), but I don't really see a whole class based on being anti-other classes. They would have to make battles completely based around the possibility of a spellbreaker there, like every boss(and many mobs) needing mana for the spellbreaker to reach its potential and have them put buffs on themselves for a spellbreaker to use them against the mob/boss.
In pvp, they'd also be both overpowered to any caster and incredibly underpowered to non-casters or non-mana users(which can't be the goal).
Btw, I said AMZ because the Spellbreakers ingame(Magister's Terrace) use it already.

Not trying to bash the idea, but I just don't see the potential of such a class being implemented
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Not sure about Spell Breaker being a mage in plate . As far as I know , spell breakers are trained to be the perfect spell caster hunter that can hold his own versus other meleers as well . Not sure how that relates to mages .


Closest thing to a mage in plate are Battle Magi /War Magi . In game there are Crimson Battle Magi , part of the Scarlet Crusade , and 2 named blood elf battle mages . These aren't the only battle magi , but they're the only ones we see in real plate , rest have cloth on them as far as I can tell .
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Not trying to bash the idea, but I just don't see the potential of such a class being implemented
Oh lord no, I already said I don't wan't another class, especially not another one that's gonna roll on my shit. Balance issues abound trying to make a normal class, making one tailored to killing Mana based classes is just inviting trouble.

Which in all honesty makes the Spell Breakers boring to talk about in regards to the original intentions of the thread, because they already exist even if they are a bit underrepresented. Which was "we know this concept works, so why aren't the Horde or Alliance using it across the board" along with the effects of each kind of Hybrid in regards to the lore.

Last edited by Stormcaller; 08-04-2010 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:15 AM
Havard Havard is offline

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Druids? ....Panzerkin


Yeah, I went there.
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Perhaps because using armor has shown to lower the effecienty of using magic, a good mage should never be hit with a weapon, they'll use their magic in a defensive way, rather than wearing armor to take the hit. Might be hard to cast and aim your spells when you're wearing a 20kg armor suit. It would also take a lot of time to study both types of fighting, being both a scholar and a fighter. Most of the times you're better off being an expert in one than having half and half(most people also tend to be more one sided, smart ones become a scholar-related class, strong ones become more warrior-related class etc.). The combinations exist, but tend to be rare and have a specific goal in being such a combination(like spellbreakers). Many combinations are more onesided, like a paladin is still very much a melee class, and doesn't use that many holy spells(enless related to undeads). Holy paladins probably don't exist in lore, considering they're basicly going back to what they did as a priest, thus having little use for that armor.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:47 PM
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:57 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Perhaps because using armor has shown to lower the effecienty of using magic, a good mage should never be hit with a weapon, they'll use their magic in a defensive way, rather than wearing armor to take the hit. Might be hard to cast and aim your spells when you're wearing a 20kg armor suit.

Unless you are in Dragon Age. Then you just spec Arcane Warrior and becomes a killing machine.
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