Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:42 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,693
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Y'all are too cynical about this. Not every character can fit every single expansion, and why would Odyn be involved in an expansion about faction conflict? Were you guys upset that the Ebon Blade weren't fighting against Deathwing?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:49 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,527
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Y'all are too cynical about this. Not every character can fit every single expansion, and why would Odyn be involved in an expansion about faction conflict? Were you guys upset that the Ebon Blade weren't fighting against Deathwing?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:32 PM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

Eternal
Shadowsong's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,716

Default

I definitely think he'll be in the second half of BfA when it builds up to N'zoth along with Ra-den who had a new model added in 7.2.5 that went unused.

He did also say at the end of ToV that there will come a day he asks for our help once more.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-04-2018, 01:31 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,290

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
You can tell yourself that if it comforts you, but it's hardly the truth. In the end, Warcraft is all about imaginery and basic themes, the rest being rather shallow and without any meaningful impact. So pardon me if I enjoy the imaginery and basic themes of Kul Tiras as presented more than the imaginery of other human kingdoms or the Stormheim vrykul.
How would "imaginery and basic themes" of Kul Tiras be ruined by the loss of their strongmen?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-04-2018, 04:51 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,991

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
How would "imaginery and basic themes" of Kul Tiras be ruined by the loss of their strongmen?
Not sure where do you take the ruined part from, that's quite a hyperbole. Weakened? Sure. Ruined? Of course not, they are just a minor part that enhances the picture.

Still, they do enhance it. How? Well, simply put, a part of Kul Tiras's imaginery is a Warcraft take on North European whalers, something that works very well with large, brawny sailors with some fat tacked on. You remove them, and while the image still works, it is immediately less rich.



Then there's also the matter of playability and aesthetics. By the virtue of being playable, they would allow us who want that to play humans with a different, less athletic model, and humans originating from Kul Tiras to do so. You remove them, and the possibility is gone.

In the end, I'd understand the issue if their presence was overdone, or if this wasn't the first time we see Kul Tiras in detail. However, neither is the case. This is the first time we see Kul Tiras in any detail (my apologies, but one mission in Warcraft II simply does not count), and these larger humans seem to be clearly a minority amongst normal humans going by the preview screenshots. As such, I see really no cons next to a number of pros. And as such, calling them an asspull of lore feels to me like calling Cataclysm's Gilneas an asspull of lore simply because it wasn't a Stormwind painted black. I mean, you can do that if you want, but don't expect me to agree in either case really.

PS: Krainz, sorry for off-topic, I just sort of felt this needed to be adressed.

Last edited by Marthen; 01-04-2018 at 04:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:00 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,290

Default

I disagree, but perhaps we can move this discussion to another thread.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:13 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,693
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Did it bother you that Thorim wasn’t in Cata or MoP? They had Titan facilities as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-04-2018, 04:33 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,527
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Did it bother you that Thorim wasn’t in Cata or MoP? They had Titan facilities as well.
I remember the absence of the Keepers post-Wrath being a bothersome concern.

And Thorim was depressed.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:41 PM
Triceron Triceron is offline

Keeper of the Grove
Triceron's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 603

Default

Lorewalker who?

Not all newly introduced central supporting characters get much attention past the expansion they're introduced in. At most, they'll get cameos in future content.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:22 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

Elune
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Trickster's Mighty Keep
Posts: 7,369

Shadow Orb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
Lorewalker who?

Not all newly introduced central supporting characters get much attention past the expansion they're introduced in. At most, they'll get cameos in future content.
Yeah but theses characters do not all come with a massive army.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojar View Post
i literally just shit my pants with rage
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:14 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,010

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
Lorewalker who?

Not all newly introduced central supporting characters get much attention past the expansion they're introduced in. At most, they'll get cameos in future content.
It's not every character, it's the ones who are blatantly set up to have more relevance in situations that don't even mention them. Wrathion was both responsible for the Iron Horde, and his whole point in that was to get an army to fight the Legion invasion he had nothing to do with. The last we heard of Yrel was her promising to help us fight the Legion and saying how she'd like to come to Azeroth. Med'an was set up as a messianic figure to fight the old gods. Odyn has an entire army that should want to be fighting N'Zoth or at the very least be concerned with Uldir.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 01-05-2018 at 09:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:08 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,693
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
It's not every character, it's the ones who are blatantly set up to have more relevance in situations that don't even mention them. Wrathion was both responsible for the Iron Horde, and his whole point in that was to get an army to fight the Legion invasion he had nothing to do with. The last we heard of Yrel was her promising to help us fight the Legion and saying how she'd like to come to Azeroth. Med'an was set up as a messianic figure to fight the old gods. Odyn has an entire army that should want to be fighting N'Zoth or at the very least be concerned with Uldir.
Wrathion should’ve been involved, but Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by making him a criminal. Yrel should’ve been involved but what role would she have with the lightforged Draenei? Med’an should’ve been involved in many things, but we know why he isn’t. The characters don’t know where N’Zoth is, and even if they did, it’s hard to access. We only ever fight bosses when they reveal themselves first. Any Titan could be involved with Uldir, why do people keep expecting Odyn to do it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:51 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,527
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Yrel should’ve been involved but what role would she have with the lightforged Draenei?
Yrel should've ascended to become Lightforged during the Argus campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Any Titan could be involved with Uldir, why do people keep expecting Odyn to do it?
The Titans are stuck in the Seat.

The other Keepers are all commanded by Odyn now. Basically, after Legion, if any Keeper is to appear or make a move, that Keeper should be Odyn.

Especially after being spotlighted as a highfather of some sorts.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:03 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,573

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Wrathion should’ve been involved, but Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by making him a criminal. Yrel should’ve been involved but what role would she have with the lightforged Draenei?
Either of these could have had plenty of time to reconcile things like Wrathion's status and fit him and/or Yrel into the continued struggle against Sargeras' crusade in further expansions later on if this expansion had ended with Argus being the first blow of many to be struck against the Legion on its own worlds down the road instead of snowballing our one and only offensive with unseemly haste into taking Sargeras out of the picture and outright eliminating the Legion as a viable threat.

The problem isn't merely that they were omitted from this specific war against the Burning Legion; it's that they were omitted while this specific war turned into the last war against the Burning Legion. They've written these characters into immediate obsolescence because they were built up specifically as parts of the battle against the Legion and now there's no more Legion to battle. Moreover, the Legion can't reasonably return within the lifespan of WoW. One doesn't lock away a 25,000-year-old, previously unstoppable threat and then pull it back out just a few expansions later. By its very definition this is an enemy of such a scope that bringing it back only really works if it happens generations later, when the world has moved onto other things and most of the previous heroes have passed away so that the same crew of protagonists can't still be together euthanizing their latest Villains of the Week and just immediately pounce on dealing with the universe-threatening enemy they only just neutralized a few years ago.

It's why even bringing back the Scourge as an enemy during WoW would be questionable. For us, the players, it's been only seven or eight years since Arthas fell; for the game world itself even less time has passed. There would be no real sense of the Scourge "coming back" as this old, defeated foe rising again because to the characters in-universe it hasn't even been gone all that long.

By removing the Burning Legion from the equation in such an all-fire hurry, they blew off tons of characters, races and factions with central lore and backstories that revolved around reconciling their stories with that of the Legion, so we could finish off the demons with the help of an extra-sparkly draenei advertisement for BfA instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The other Keepers are all commanded by Odyn now. Basically, after Legion, if any Keeper is to appear or make a move, that Keeper should be Odyn.

Especially after being spotlighted as a highfather of some sorts.
Or maybe Ra, who's literally Highkeeper of the titan-forged, if our continued victories and the revelation that the titans still live maybe bring him out of his funk and convince him there's still some hope of saving Azeroth.

I still think they missed out by not making the Valarjar a non-class-specific "thing" where the players all rally the remaining living Keepers (hell, maybe even reboot Archaedas) so Ra could fix up and repair Uldum's defeated watchers to be his own lieutenants. Then the Alliance and Horde could have more visibly contributed through the Warrior Class Order Hall, and the Broken Shore could have had a bunch of different types of titan-forged soldiers as its guard NPC's instead of a bunch of randoms in brown tabards from a "Legionfall" faction that spontaneously appeared from nowhere and was somehow comprised of our own Class Halls, but not really.

(For that matter, I also feel like they blew it by not involving our Sha'tar and Shattered Sun allies from Outland in the final war against the enemy whose existence is the only reason they exist.)
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-07-2018, 06:58 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

Elune
Jungleluke's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 7,272

Default

Odyn and the other Keepers have done their job in Legion: killing Legion forces en masse. Just like the Elemental Lords, Bolvar, etc.

I don't see them having a significant role in Battle for Azeroth and why would they have one? It's time for others to shine, as usual.

No need to have Odyn in Uldir. He is not 'evil', why kill him? Doesn't even fit the theme of Uldir (abandoned research-facility with some nasties locked up).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
characters, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.