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  #26  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:47 AM
Sargeras Sargeras is offline

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Originally Posted by Morvant View Post
I don't imagine them being evil, but more about preserving some sort of cosmic balance between Light and Darkness. Which might or might not be a question of survival for them, considering their weird "life" cycle. And they would be seeing the Legion as upsetting said cosmic balance.
So maybe they are actually trying to protect the void lords from the legion, because there must always be a lich king Light and Void?
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  #27  
Old 03-21-2016, 05:34 AM
engal engal is offline

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So maybe they are actually trying to protect the void lords from the legion, because there must always be a lich king Light and Void?
I don't think so. The need of the Void and the Light doesn't means there is a need for spawn of light ( naaru) and spawn of void ( Void Lords) if both of them are somehow -defeated- the light and the void will still be there
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Nothing, this is Scrolls of Lore, every conversation on here slowly distills down to Sylvanas, Lorderon or Worgen. I'm pretty sure that theres a mathematical truth to this.
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  #28  
Old 03-21-2016, 06:44 PM
engal engal is offline

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So maybe they are actually trying to protect the void lords from the legion, because there must always be a lich king Light and Void?
Which raise another question :

If the Naaru can turn from light to shadow / void

Can the void lords turn from shadow /void to light?

If yes, what do they become ? ( don't tell me " Elune " lol )
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Nothing, this is Scrolls of Lore, every conversation on here slowly distills down to Sylvanas, Lorderon or Worgen. I'm pretty sure that theres a mathematical truth to this.
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2016, 06:49 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by engal View Post
If the Naaru can turn from light to shadow / void

Can the void lords turn from shadow /void to light?
I'm presuming they can. Is there anything that suggests they can't?

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-21-2016 at 06:51 PM..
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  #30  
Old 03-21-2016, 06:55 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I'm a little hesitant to draw too strong a line between a model named "void god" and the Void Lords described in Chronicle.

That said, the fact that the rack on the back of the void god model seems very similar to a naaru's geometry definitely implies a connection between the two.

Though it is interesting that the mechanism of naaru becoming creatures of void upon their death is never mentioned in Chronicle. Curious.
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  #31  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:02 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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The illustration of the void gods in Chronicle was a voidcaller.

The void god model is used for the creatures that come from darkened naaru.
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  #32  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:08 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
I'm a little hesitant to draw too strong a line between a model named "void god" and the Void Lords described in Chronicle.

That said, the fact that the rack on the back of the void god model seems very similar to a naaru's geometry definitely implies a connection between the two.

Though it is interesting that the mechanism of naaru becoming creatures of void upon their death is never mentioned in Chronicle. Curious.
The mechanism of their transformation was mentioned. In a way. At least, it's how I understand this. The Void was formed in places were the Light was fading. It seems that when a Naaru gets a lot of damage and becomes weak, the same happens with his Light. And without Light there's only Void.
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:11 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Though it is interesting that the mechanism of naaru becoming creatures of void upon their death is never mentioned in Chronicle. Curious.
For me, it's more upsetting/depressing rather than interesting. This is suppose to be a book that ties up all the loose ends in the story. To, as Metzen stated, clarify.
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:12 PM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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Though it is interesting that the mechanism of naaru becoming creatures of void upon their death is never mentioned in Chronicle. Curious.
Sounds like something for Volume 2. Since the main focus was the creation of the universe&Azeroth.

Since Naaru's becoming darkened is extremely rare but we see a couple in Draenor. So just a matter of waiting until the next volume.
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  #35  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:20 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by Kiraser View Post
without Light there's only Void.
It would actually be: without Light, there is no Void.

Light casts shadows and if there was no absence of Light in the pockets of cold "nothingness", the Void would not have coalesced.

Also, light can exist in the darkness, which is considered to be an actual force in the World of Warcraft. Since the Void sucks in light, I'd state it does contain some measure of light.

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-21-2016 at 07:31 PM..
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:00 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Sounds like something for Volume 2. Since the main focus was the creation of the universe&Azeroth.

Since Naaru's becoming darkened is extremely rare but we see a couple in Draenor. So just a matter of waiting until the next volume.
Fair enough. The naaru didn't really play much of a role in new content here, and the content they DID play a role in (the flight of the draenei) wasn't really a reasonable place to delve into their life cycle. M'uru, K'ara, K'ure and D'ore are better places to do that, and they're all post-Dork Portal.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:44 PM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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I'm presuming they can. Is there anything that suggests they can't?
There's nothing about the void lords. So everyone can predict what they want. I hope the void lords are little cute cats.
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:17 AM
Morvant Morvant is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post
It would actually be: without Light, there is no Void.

Light casts shadows and if there was no absence of Light in the pockets of cold "nothingness", the Void would not have coalesced.

Also, light can exist in the darkness, which is considered to be an actual force in the World of Warcraft. Since the Void sucks in light, I'd state it does contain some measure of light.
Is that actually stated as is in Chronicles ? Because that doesn't make much sense to me.

I mean it's called the Void. By definition it's the absence of everything, so it existing before the Light would seems logical to me.

Kind of like Ginnungagap or Chaos of norse and greek mythology.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:56 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Is that actually stated as is in Chronicles
The class preview for priests states that light casts shadows and many WoW novels establish that light can cast shadows.

It's also been established in the Chronicle that Light cannot exist without Void and vice-versa other. If Void always existed, it always existed along with Light. If Void was a created force, it was created at the same time Light was.

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I mean it's called the Void. By definition it's the absence of everything
There is no such thing as "the absence of anything". You and I both understand that things do exist and that you can't create something if there aren't any things to create something with. And if death isn't a part of existence (or being), we would just "live" forever, we would stay the same. As conscious beings though we should understand that death is a part of our existence. Ergo, it's irrefutably asinine to state that once something seems gone, it no longer exists.

If the Void, which some equate to a black hole that absorbs all matter, existed before everything else, there wouldn't be anything BUT Void.

If the Void isn't the absence of anything and is an actual force, it would be chaotic energy (which fel was described as) because energies are naturally chaotic in the sense that they want to spread out and become messy. Fel (which was referred to as Chaos), if anything, existed in the beginning, but Matt Burns thinks there are exceptions to the rule in regards to this matter.

The story will never make sense because even if there is an exception to the rule, fel should/would be considered something that has always existed. And isn't the Nether, an ethereal dimension composed of fel magics, the line between Lght and Void? Perhaps there wasn't a line/distinction/border between the two at the beginning?

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-22-2016 at 05:46 AM..
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2016, 05:55 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Morvant View Post
Is that actually stated as is in Chronicles ? Because that doesn't make much sense to me.

I mean it's called the Void. By definition it's the absence of everything, so it existing before the Light would seems logical to me.

Kind of like Ginnungagap or Chaos of norse and greek mythology.
Actually, necrophotic is wrong-wrong. You're right.

Chronicle starts like this:
"Before life began, before even the cosmos took shape, there was Light... and there was Void. Unfettered by the confines of time and space, the Light swelled across all existence in the form of a boundless prismatic sea. Great torrents of living energy flitted through its mirrored depths, their movements conjuring a symphony of joy and hope.

The ocean of Light was dynamic and ever shifting. Yet as it expanded, some of the energies faded and dimmed, leaving behind pockets of cold nothingness. From the absence of Light in these spaces, a new power coalesced and came to be.

This power was the Void
, a dark and vampiric dorce driven to devour all energy, to twist creation inward to feed upon itself. [...]"
Nothing about the Light casting shadows... The Void was born from the "absence of everything" formed when the Light couldn't reach it all.
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  #41  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:00 AM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Voidwalkers are too cute to be this dangerous, haha. That's all I've got!
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:20 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
Actually, necrophotic is wrong-wrong
No I'm not


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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
Nothing about the Light casting shadows...
I stated that the priest class preview established that light casts shadows. I didn't state that the Chronicle establishes that. If you believe that you proved me wrong, I've got unfortunate news for you.

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
The Void was born from the "absence of everything" formed when the Light couldn't reach it all.
The Void was stated to be a power that coalesced from the Light's absence in pockets of cold nothingness, but that doesn't mean the Void is the absence of anything. The Void contains spirits known as Void Lords and if the Void is the absence of anything, it's not a real power because it isn't anything. Matt Burns however confirmed that it is a real power.

You should stop letting Old Gods jack up your mind while you're asleep.

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-22-2016 at 06:33 AM..
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:33 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post

The Void was stated to be a power that coalesced from the Light's absence in pockets of cold nothingness, but that doesn't mean the Void is the absence of anything. The Void contains spirits known as Void Lords and if the Void is the absence of anything, it's not a real power because it isn't anything. Matt Burns however confirmed that it is a real power.

You should stop letting Old Gods jack up your mind while you're asleep.
Yeah?
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  #44  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:34 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Yeah?
Yeah, because it wouldn't be a real power.



Cemotucu is clearly a part of a group that is having a rather difficult time understanding that there can't be such a thing as the "absence of anything". Like Muffinus, he'd claim that the difference between fel and void is absolute 0 vs entropy even though both are entropic powers.

I want everyone to come to an acceptance of what is true, or what would be true if there weren't any exceptions. Magic is magic and the Arcane, the Elements, the Light, and the Void all represent what fel is: chaotic energy

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-22-2016 at 07:09 AM..
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  #45  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:15 AM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post
Magic is magic and Void is technically Fel. No exceptions to the rule in my book.
Void is not Fel. Lumberjacks and carpenters are not the same thing. There is sometimes overlap in what they do, that doesn't make them equivalent.

But hey, let me know when Blizzard decides to let you publish your book, I'm sure it's a best seller waiting to happen.
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:23 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Void is not Fel
Yes it is. They both represent chaotic energy, so they are the same in a regard. The question to be asked is what completely separates Void from Fel. People are using the illogical "Void is the absence of anything" reason as to why Void is different from Fel, and that's a reason which will not prove it's different. Ergo, Matt Burns thinks there are some exceptions to the rule when it comes to the Warcraft powers.

If you want to accept exceptions to the rule, the rule that states that chaotic energy is what fel is, be my guest. Void is just Fel with another name and color design slapped unto it.

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Lumberjacks and carpenters are not the same There is sometimes overlap in what they do, that doesn't make them equivalent.
If there is overlap in what they do, they are the same in a regard. Same, yet seemingly different.

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-22-2016 at 07:38 AM..
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:33 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post

I want everyone to come to an acceptance of what is true, or what would be true if there weren't any exceptions. Magic is magic and the Arcane, the Elements, the Light, and the Void all represent what fel is: chaotic energy
You are not going to find this consensus, because if it doesn't even exist among the developers of the game and the universe of the game itself, there's no way for it to exist.

I applaud your passion but you are looking for a level of purity that is impossible once more than one creator has touched a creation.

Also, if you happen to be the individual who had a tendency to get into impassioned arguments with me (@unlimitedblack) on Twitter some years ago regarding the nature of fel magic and the morality of warlocks, I advise you to put this passion towards something that can actually impact our real world in a positive way. Such power is wasted in mere fiction.
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:36 AM
Eelgrin Eelgrin is offline

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I'm not sure I get the angle you're taking on this, necrophotic. There's more than energy and matter at work here. These are imaginary cosmic energies that represent things like destruction, order, creation, and nothingness. They're like, magical manifestations of abstract concepts, at least a few of which have spawned sentient beings that further embody those concepts. They don't need to follow the laws of thermodynamics, and they have at least a partial relationship with philosophical and moral concepts (good, evil, faith, the soul). The black/white duality thing is a pretty common mythological device.

There's no reason to argue the semantics of whether the Light is actually a type of Fel - it's laid out in Chronicle pretty clearly what these magics are intended to represent. Your interpretation of the writers' language doesn't necessitate some underlying alchemy of Warcraft magic that only you can understand.

Also, what Crow said.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:41 AM
HackBenjamin HackBenjamin is offline

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Originally Posted by necrophotic View Post
Yes it is. They both represent chaotic energy, so they are the same in a regard. The question to be asked is what completely separates Void from Fel. People are using the illogical "Void is the absence of anything" reason as to why Void is different from Fel, and that's a reason which will not prove it's different. Ergo, Matt Burns thinks there are some exceptions to the rule when it comes to the Warcraft powers.



If there is overlap in what they do, they are the same in a regard. Same, yet seemingly different.
Except one fells trees, while the other constructs with or shapes lumber. They both use wood, yes. This doesn't mean they serve the same function.

I shouldn't need to break this down any further, but I will. They both use wood (magic). One uses a saw (fel) and one uses hammers and nails (void). One fells trees to make lumber(fel), one uses lumber to make stuff(void). It's an imperfect analogy, so don't waste time picking it apart. Just try and come up with a standalone answer that doesn't reference your interpretations of source material.

If void and fel were the same, why are they not occupying the same space on the cosmology map?
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:45 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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I'm not sure I get the angle you're taking on this, necrophotic.
The point I'm trying to convey is that magic is magic. What is the point of establishing different forms of magic then discussing them?


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Originally Posted by Eelgrin View Post
IThese are imaginary cosmic energies that represent things like destruction, order, creation, and nothingness.
Each form of magic can represent order, destruction, creation, and nothingness. That's why I just find establishing differen forms of magic pointless.

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IThey don't need to follow the laws of thermodynamics
Tell that to Jeremy Feasel =[
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