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  #26  
Old 03-16-2017, 09:42 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Isn't that Gelbin in all but name though, wasn't he basically voted into power and King is just the title they use?
>implying anyone would respect the gnomes
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2017, 09:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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>implying anyone would respect the gnomes
If they'd had more stuff like the Mechsuit Gelbin has and had been blowing up orcs and trolls with deathrays or spider walkers and robot armies earlier in Wow's history they might've been respectable.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:14 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I'd add my own WoW timeline work, of course!
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  #29  
Old 03-17-2017, 02:44 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I had to take quite some time to make up my mind on what I would write.

I pondered between the Ebon Blade, the Forsaken, the Lich King, and also on the organization of the Alliance.

But then I made my mind after clearing Mythic Siege for transmogs just now.

I would write alternate universes out of Warcraft, completely reworking the expansion after MoP; first, I would make Garrosh's trial be a big deal, with lots of tensions and an in-game experience.

Then I would write Vol'jin as a proper Warchief, properly speaking for the Horde and representing them on Garrosh's trial.

Wrathion would make the trial unsuccessful and Garrosh would flee. His new army would consist of new blood from MU Nagrand, new Shaman actually specialized in contacting ancestral spirits, not so much focusing on the elements.

Garrosh would elect a select few shaman to be guided by the spirits of the ancient Warlords of the Horde. These shaman would be a medium for the old spirits to talk to the players and threaten them, just like the warlords in WoD did, and some would even take over their hosts, in an attempt to "come back".

No time travel.

Players would build their garrisons in Azeroth. Both factions would have to rebuild after Siege.

Vol'jin would work closely with the player to rebuild Orgrimmar, as the player's Garrison will be a major factor in helping the faction achieve this goal.

Thrall would be Vol'jin's main advisor on the campaign against Garrosh's new thing.

The Alliance commander's garrison would help their faction rebuild Gilneas.

One of Garrosh's Mag'har shaman would eventually disobey him and try to commune with Gul'dan's spirit. This way, Gul'dan's spirit would take over and everything would be set up for Legion.

This is how these stories would be organized into game content patches:

6.0, leveling quests: Garrosh's trial, persecution, facing his settlements and getting to know his shamanic army. Garrisons and rebuilding Orgrimmar/Gilneas would be part of leveling. The Gilnean questlines would involve Genn insisting on punishment for Sylvanas, since Garrosh set a precedent. Some Alliance leaders support Genn, but everyone agree that is best to deal with Garrosh and his shamans first.

Raid: Warlord Shamans. Garrosh is rescued by the Mag'har shaman who is communing with Gul'dan. Thrall notices that the shaman is up to no good. He talks to the alliance and they all agree that they should call upon Khadgar.

6.1: rebuilding Gnomeregan/Darkspear capital and making the construction of related garrisons available. Khadgar offers a couple questlines to investigate what the shaman that rescued Garrosh is up to. Baine would be a prominent figure in helping the Darkspear.

Raid: shipyards will cost a raid tier this patch

6.2: the shaman goes full-on shadow council fel. Gul'dan takes over. Garrosh refuses to give in to fel. Gul'dan forms the Fel Horde and a citadel is built somewhere to headstart the Burning Legion invasions. The return of Gul'dan makes the Burning Legion a priority, and Genn's vengeance is postponed for Legion.

Raid: Fel Shaman Citadel. Garrosh is chained by Fel Lord Zakuum. After killing Fel Lord Zakuum, the players also execute Garrosh. Final expansion boss: can't think of anything better than Archimonde to wrap up the expac.

Oh and I also would make Baine look like this in-game:

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  #30  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:05 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Isn't that Gelbin in all but name though, wasn't he basically voted into power and King is just the title they use?
Give us some elections for Gelbin!
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  #31  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:17 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I had to take quite some time to make up my mind on what I would write.

I pondered between the Ebon Blade, the Forsaken, the Lich King, and also on the organization of the Alliance.

But then I made my mind after clearing Mythic Siege for transmogs just now.

I would write alternate universes out of Warcraft, completely reworking the expansion after MoP; first, I would make Garrosh's trial be a big deal, with lots of tensions and an in-game experience.

Then I would write Vol'jin as a proper Warchief, properly speaking for the Horde and representing them on Garrosh's trial.

Wrathion would make the trial unsuccessful and Garrosh would flee. His new army would consist of new blood from MU Nagrand, new Shaman actually specialized in contacting ancestral spirits, not so much focusing on the elements.

Garrosh would elect a select few shaman to be guided by the spirits of the ancient Warlords of the Horde. These shaman would be a medium for the old spirits to talk to the players and threaten them, just like the warlords in WoD did, and some would even take over their hosts, in an attempt to "come back".

No time travel.

Players would build their garrisons in Azeroth. Both factions would have to rebuild after Siege.

Vol'jin would work closely with the player to rebuild Orgrimmar, as the player's Garrison will be a major factor in helping the faction achieve this goal.

Thrall would be Vol'jin's main advisor on the campaign against Garrosh's new thing.

The Alliance commander's garrison would help their faction rebuild Gilneas.

One of Garrosh's Mag'har shaman would eventually disobey him and try to commune with Gul'dan's spirit. This way, Gul'dan's spirit would take over and everything would be set up for Legion.

This is how these stories would be organized into game content patches:

6.0, leveling quests: Garrosh's trial, persecution, facing his settlements and getting to know his shamanic army. Garrisons and rebuilding Orgrimmar/Gilneas would be part of leveling. The Gilnean questlines would involve Genn insisting on punishment for Sylvanas, since Garrosh set a precedent. Some Alliance leaders support Genn, but everyone agree that is best to deal with Garrosh and his shamans first.

Raid: Warlord Shamans. Garrosh is rescued by the Mag'har shaman who is communing with Gul'dan. Thrall notices that the shaman is up to no good. He talks to the alliance and they all agree that they should call upon Khadgar.

6.1: rebuilding Gnomeregan/Darkspear capital and making the construction of related garrisons available. Khadgar offers a couple questlines to investigate what the shaman that rescued Garrosh is up to. Baine would be a prominent figure in helping the Darkspear.

Raid: shipyards will cost a raid tier this patch

6.2: the shaman goes full-on shadow council fel. Gul'dan takes over. Garrosh refuses to give in to fel. Gul'dan forms the Fel Horde and a citadel is built somewhere to headstart the Burning Legion invasions. The return of Gul'dan makes the Burning Legion a priority, and Genn's vengeance is postponed for Legion.

Raid: Fel Shaman Citadel. Garrosh is chained by Fel Lord Zakuum. After killing Fel Lord Zakuum, the players also execute Garrosh. Final expansion boss: can't think of anything better than Archimonde to wrap up the expac.

Oh and I also would make Baine look like this in-game:

This is actually pretty damn awesome!

What would be the zones?
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:19 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I'd rewrite the entire universe.
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:25 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Something to make Worgen more anti-heroic and actually cursed, I guess. Maybe reveal there's a bit of Emerald Nightmare in their origins and that's why their curse has an infectious aspect to it or maybe have real moments where the curse overtakes them in battle. Possibly drives them away from the Night Elves and makes them more allied with the EK Alliance.
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  #34  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:45 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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If I had one change? I'd edit the Chronicles II passage from this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronicles II
When Proudmoore found the crude Horde ships, it was akin to a wolf crossing paths with an injured lamb. The admiral hailed from the island nation of Kul Tiras, and he'd spent his entire life on the high seas. His experience in maritime warfare had no equal in the world.

Proudmoore's sleek vessels outmaneuvred the Horde fleet even quicker than he'd anticipated. The first Alliance cannon volley blew orcish ships to pieces. Dozens of transports sank, and the churning waves swallowed their crews. Proudmoore soon realized that he could destroy the entire Horde army at sea. He could end the war against the Alliance before it even started.

Perhaps he would have, if not for the arrival of dragons.
To this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grackledit
When Proudmoore found the crude Horde ships, he imagined it was akin to a wolf crossing paths with an injured lamb. The admiral hailed from the island nation of Kul Tiras, and he'd spent his entire life on the high seas. His experience in maritime warfare had no equal in the world.

However, the orcish ships proved to be surprisingly durable. The first Alliance cannon volley had little effect, and the warships returned fire with unexpected ferocity.

Proudmoore soon realized that the only way to defeat the Horde at sea was to outmaneuver them. His sleek vessels dodged the enemy's cannon and isolated individual vessels to sink them. Proudmoore was confident he could defeat the Horde fleet and stop them from making landfall in Lordaeron.

Perhaps he would have, if not for the arrival of dragons.
If I had a second change, I would add this sentence somewhere at the end of the chapter:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grackledit
The conflict had razed and devastated townships such as Southshore, Tarren Mill, Tol Barad, and Caer Darrow.
Bam! Extremely minimal changes. But I just made the Second War an actual war again.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 03-17-2017 at 07:51 AM..
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:05 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Damn Grackle, you write something I actually find interesting, and then you end it with a jewel like this.

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
But I just made the Second War an actual war again.
You must have a really strange definition of war actually is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronicle Vol. II
War had decimated the Eastern Kingoms. The Horde had razed countless villages and cities. Corpses choked the roadways and mountain passes from Hillsbrad Foothills to Quel'Thalas.
For nearly everyone who'd fought, the war did not end with the Dark Portal's destruction. Survivors were plagued by nightmares of the horrors they'd witnessed. Many soldiers had lost close friends. Some had even lost their entire families.
If you are telling me that a conflict where countless villages and cities get razed, where the roadways across half a continent end choked with corpses, and where soldiers lose their entire families, is not an actual war. Well, hell.
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  #36  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:12 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post

If you are telling me that a conflict where countless villages and cities get razed, where the roadways across half a continent end choked with corpses, and where soldiers lose their entire families, is not an actual war. Well, hell.
In his defense, unless those places are NAMED it's hard to give a damn and right now the Horde never got into any named cities from what I can tell.
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  #37  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:15 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Damn Grackle, you write something I actually find interesting, and then you end it with a jewel like this.



You must have a really strange definition of war actually is.



If you are telling me that a conflict where countless villages and cities get razed, where the roadways across half a continent end choked with corpses, and where soldiers lose their entire families, is not an actual war. Well, hell.
Well, that's a pretty kickass passage that I hadn't seen. I'll cease my "not an actual war" comments.

But I'd keep my first edit. My second edit is a bit unnecessary now, but it'd still be fun to change:

Quote:
The Horde had razed countless villages and cities.
to:

Quote:
The Horde had razed countless villages and cities including Southshore, Tarren Mill, Tol Barad, and Caer Darrow.
I'd still leave out Stromgarde. Having it razed would complicate the taxes-to-rebuild Stormwind part of the interwar.
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  #38  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:38 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
In his defense, unless those places are NAMED it's hard to give a damn and right now the Horde never got into any named cities from what I can tell.
You're wrongly assuming that named cities and villages aren't included in that passage.
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  #39  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:39 AM
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Post-World Soul civilizations. I'd write about the survivors of a Titan's birth, how they initially explored with them.

I imagine a world-soul that Aman'thul found, and when he appeared in the sky above panic ensued. He found ways to communicate with them, help them grow and avoid corruption. Eventually, how he was able to take them beyond their earthly tether so that when the World Soul was born they could survive.

And, in that act, he created the first Titanic servants. Not necessarily powerful ones, but those who could be emissaries to other planets without disturbing their natural order.

Some would resettle on another planet or system. Others would be lost to space. A few may have been the first to breach into the Twisting Nether.

Some short stories, some longer, but all about what happens when your home planet is destroyed, but in that fear and trepidation there's joy of creation in that destruction.

And of course, I'd love to write what happens when billions of years separates a civilization from the glorious understanding of birth of a World-Soul to the legends and myths it evolves into in modern time. Whether that spirit of love and joy despite fear can be retained across time.
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  #40  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:42 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
You're wrongly assuming that named cities and villages aren't included in that passage.
Oh good, which ones?
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  #41  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:55 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Oh good, which ones?
Any ones, that's the point.

I'm not saying it's the best thing that was done, I too would have liked to see them naming the destroyed places, but it's also erroneous to assume no named places were destroyed.

To know which ones, we'd look at the Chronicles text describing the paths the Horde took, as well as in-game information, and Warcraft II.

Last edited by Ethenil; 03-17-2017 at 11:23 AM..
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  #42  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:53 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Any ones, that's the point.

I'm not saying it's the best thing that was done, I too would have liked to see them naming the destroyed places, but it's also erroneous to assume no named places were destroyed.

To know which ones, we'd look at the Chronicles text describing the paths the Horde took, as well as in-game information, and Warcraft II.
Anyway, per this thread, my edit would name a few.
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  #43  
Old 03-17-2017, 12:10 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Anyway, per this thread, my edit would name a few.
Yes, that would be very good
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  #44  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:35 PM
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>implying anyone would respect the gnomes
What the fuck did you say about me you little bitch?
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #45  
Old 03-18-2017, 05:27 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
In his defense, unless those places are NAMED it's hard to give a damn and right now the Horde never got into any named cities from what I can tell.
Just to elaborate, in the case there it were not as clear, this was not some attempt to berate Grackle. I think he's a great poster, even though I do not agree with him every single time, and I do agree that his edits would make the account of the Second War much more impactful (even though I do not think that the text about Zul'Dare was supposed to make the Horde fleet completely useless, it was more about Proudmoore's genius - and Matt Burns does seem to agree with that), I just found that particular statement "weird" given the book's contents.
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  #46  
Old 03-18-2017, 01:40 PM
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What the fuck did you say about me you little bitch?
you're shortstack a shit
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  #47  
Old 03-18-2017, 02:12 PM
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Perhaps human history between the Fall of Arathor and First War. Give us some kingdoms that didn't make the cut and also explain why Lordaeron is so huge.

Or flesh out the ten thousand years in Kalimdor between the Sundering and the Third War. Show the ups and downs of the tauren, give us a quilboar empire and why it's no longer there. Perhaps some history of centaur hordes sweeping across the continent until they were beaten and separated.

Although they will probably do that sooner rather than later, the backstory of Argus. How it came to be, potential Titan involvement, Argus before the Triumvirate.
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:27 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Just to elaborate, in the case there it were not as clear, this was not some attempt to berate Grackle. I think he's a great poster, even though I do not agree with him every single time, and I do agree that his edits would make the account of the Second War much more impactful (even though I do not think that the text about Zul'Dare was supposed to make the Horde fleet completely useless, it was more about Proudmoore's genius - and Matt Burns does seem to agree with that), I just found that particular statement "weird" given the book's contents.
Oh I definitely don't think you were berating him, you and he have been very civil with each other.

I agree with your view of the intent of the passage but I also agree with Grackle that it made the Horde seem more helpless at sea than it was in WC2 originally.

I don't think that recent years of the Horde never really developing naval power has helped, and the lack of any clan that had 'naval power' as its thing has contributed to the view that the Horde -never- had naval skill, rather than just didn't develop it after WC3 and always relied on purchased goblin stuff.


Which... brings up another question on the Chronicle, were the goblins mentioned at all in the WC2 timeframe?
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2017, 09:42 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post

Which... brings up another question on the Chronicle, were the goblins mentioned at all in the WC2 timeframe?
Provided in the text:
The Steamwheedle cartel approached Doomhammer after the fall of Stormwind and offered their services. Doomhammer used gold sacked from Stormwind to pay them to supervise construction of his fleet, because orcs apparently don't care about wealth.

Crow's commentary:
The fact that the goblins took a bunch of money and produced what was ultimately a pretty shitty fleet of ships vs. Proudmoore's fleet really ought to tell you everything you need to know about goblin business practices. Trade Prince Steamwheedle must have been laughing his way back to the Undermine.
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2017, 09:51 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
Provided in the text:
The Steamwheedle cartel approached Doomhammer after the fall of Stormwind and offered their services. Doomhammer used gold sacked from Stormwind to pay them to supervise construction of his fleet, because orcs apparently don't care about wealth.

Crow's commentary:
The fact that the goblins took a bunch of money and produced what was ultimately a pretty shitty fleet of ships vs. Proudmoore's fleet really ought to tell you everything you need to know about goblin business practices. Trade Prince Steamwheedle must have been laughing his way back to the Undermine.
Ah, got my copy earlier today but haven't gotten past the draenei landing yet, I'll have to check it out more later. From what I'd heard I thought the ships were decent but that orcs were inexperienced with naval warfare?
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