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  #26  
Old 12-11-2013, 07:47 PM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
They became too nice with the Sunwell reignited.
Indeed. I liked my mana vampires.
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:52 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Heck, they're finding a way to be relevant on Draenor. Orcfest 2014 (I hope) will have it's own Blood Knight Exhibition.

I love Blood Elves, and I enjoy the attention, but this can't be sustainable.

The only thing I really want for them is an updated starting area. If you gave me that, I'd be fine with not seeing them in the higher levels.
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by EdWunclerIII View Post
I disagree. They're a part of the story and should stay that way.
To be quite honest, the High Elves shouldn't even exist, as far as I am concerned. They all, minus Vereesa because I hate her, should have become Blood Elves.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:06 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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They're okay. The main problem is that they aren't high elves on the Alliance and are taking up the ogres' spot on the Horde.

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
They became too nice with the Sunwell reignited.
Hardly. They're plenty ruthless as before.... only this time they're not enslaving naaru or butchering draenei for the fel energy they're about to cleanse.
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EdWunclerIII View Post
I disagree. They're a part of the story and should stay that way.
They never should have been part of the story in the first place. They should have all just become blood elves as were originally told happened. Sure, there would be actual high elves with Alleria, Tupac, Elvis, and Andy Kaufman, but they should have been functionally gone as a race. Now this hollow splinter of a race has received far more development time and narrative space than actual playable races, such as gnomes, draenei, and worgen.

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They're okay. The main problem is that they aren't high elves on the Alliance and are taking up the ogres' spot on the Horde.
As if the Horde needs you on their side.

Last edited by Genesis; 12-11-2013 at 11:11 PM..
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  #31  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:17 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Might I offer a suggestion for people on hating High Elves and wanting them to just all die?

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Those people need to get over it.
It can go the other way. Stop trying to force your unbalanced and emotion-driven opinion on others.
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  #32  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:26 PM
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Might I offer a suggestion for people on hating High Elves and wanting them to just all die?

It can go the other way. Stop trying to force your unbalanced and emotion-driven opinion on others.
Thank you for your suggestion. I'll have you know that I can accept that they are part of the story - that is how canon works - but that does not mean that I have to be happy with canon. You can't tell me that you have been happy with every canonical lore decision regarding dwaves now, can you? Of course not. But right now the mere existence of high elves has created unreal expectations by their vocal and rather annoying fanbase who want to see a restoration of the high elves much like certain others want the restoration of Lordaeron. As I have said, these high elves have drained narrative space that other less developed Alliance races need. Shouldn't you as an Alliance fan want that much at least?
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  #33  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:38 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
As I have said, these high elves have drained narrative space that other less developed Alliance races need. Shouldn't you as an Alliance fan want that much at least?
I definitely agree with this a lot, but sometimes I now wonder if it's because Blizzard regrets making Draenei and Worgen playable race ideas. I know Draenei will be getting spotlight in a future expansion and then another Burning Legion focused expansion, but it's interesting how it requires either alternate time travel or demons to get Draenei to be relevant for anything. As for Worgen, I can't really see them being relevant for anything anymore. I can see Gilneas and Gilnean humans being awesome and relevant, however. The whole storyline with the Worgen curse, Goldrinn, and the Night Elves have kinda lost their steam though.
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  #34  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:50 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Odok said it best
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Originally Posted by Odok View Post
The issue is that it's difficult to get the players involved in racial development without completely sidetracking from whatever main story is going down. You can attach one or two at a time to whatever chapter is happening, sort of mold them around the plot, but you can't do more than that without saturating the story with big characters... which cheapens everything. That's what Kosak is getting at when he says that there's only so much room for so many characters.

The stark reality is that racial development is always going to take a backseat to whatever world building is going down. If a racial storyline fits in with the latter, and fits well, then you get some racial development. Otherwise it's backburnered.

Does that mean more can't be done about this? Hell no. In fact, I think Blizzard is pretty bad about capitalizing on little story moments inserted wherever they can. Every time you make an NPC a certain race, there's an opportunity for racial development, be it through quests, flavor banter, or just meaningful visuals.
The amount of racial lore one gets depends on if the lore coincides with the exploration of the world. High Elves' story lore coincides with Dalaran story lore which is investigation of all things magic.

So really if your race can't adapt to the themes of the expansion, you're <insert favorite race> wouldn't be getting any more narrative story telling than they get now.
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  #35  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:54 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Odok said it best


The amount of racial lore one gets depends on if the lore coincides with the exploration of the world. High Elves' story lore coincides with Dalaran story lore which is investigation of all things magic.
It's more because races like Blood Elves and Goblins can see use in multiple different parts of the story. Unlike Draenei who really only fit on Draenor or against the Burning Legion, or Worgen who only fit when accompanied by Night Elves or against the Forsaken. (Something of which becomes more of a Forsaken-story than a Worgen one, it seems.)
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  #36  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:57 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
It's more because races like Blood Elves and Goblins can see use in multiple different parts of the story. Unlike Draenei who really only fit on Draenor or against the Burning Legion, or Worgen who only fit when accompanied by Night Elves or against the Forsaken. (Something of which becomes more of a Forsaken-story than a Worgen one, it seems.)
Blood Elves have been getting more love because they have a rivalry with Dalaran which can serve as a foil. But before that? Everyone thought they were a joke race. Everyone remember when they used to say who is Lor'themar? Goblins are just flavored mooks. Anybody can do that. Add a few draenei NPCs in the collected Alliance army stemming the tide with their light powers. Add a few worgen NPCs mauling frontline orcs.
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:00 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Those people need to get over it.
I am a high elf fan and always liked them in Warcraft II and III. That is the main reason why I rolled a blood elf. That is why the Alliance version needs to go.
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  #38  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:00 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Blood Elves have been getting more love because they have a rivalry with Dalaran which can serve as a foil. But before that? Everyone thought they were a joke race. Goblins are just flavored mooks. Anybody can do that. Add a few draenei NPCs in the collected Alliance army stemming the tide with their light powers. Add a few worgen NPCs mauling frontline orcs.
Citation needed. I understand the Blood Elves started out as a controversial racial idea for the Horde at first, but to this day they remain a vastly popular and well-liked race with even some fervent Horde fans saying they work extremely well as Horde.

Goblins are also far more relevant than just mooks. They got their own short story in Pandaria, as well as their own scenario dealing with their ideals clashing with the Orcs. They've gotten a bit of something ever since their Cataclysm debut and a Horde party is never seen without a trusted Goblin companion.
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  #39  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Citation needed. I understand the Blood Elves started out as a controversial racial idea for the Horde at first, but to this day they remain a vastly popular and well-liked race with even some fervent Horde fans saying they work extremely well as Horde.
Ever remember when everyone used to say Lor'themar who? People liked the faction despirte its lack of narrative because they liked their aesthetics and themes.

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Goblins are also far more relevant than just mooks. They got their own short story in Pandaria, as well as their own scenario dealing with their ideals clashing with the Orcs. They've gotten a bit of something ever since their Cataclysm debut and a Horde party is never seen without a trusted Goblin companion.
Genn got his own short story too and were prominent in Wolfheart. And who's to say that the worgen won't get their own scenario in the future? Draenei are getting the spotlight in WoD. Maybe Worgen will get their time to shine too. I know you're crestfallen about the worgen narrative going sudden halt, but to say that everything about it is a mistake is really harsh.
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:17 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Ever remember when everyone used to say Lor'themar who? People liked the faction despirte its lack of narrative because they liked their aesthetics and themes.


Genn got his own short story too and were prominent in Wolfheart. And who's to say that the worgen won't get their own scenario in the future? Draenei are getting the spotlight in WoD. Maybe Worgen will get their time to shine too. I know you're crestfallen about the worgen narrative going sudden halt, but to say that everything about it is a mistake is really harsh.
I do, I also remember people wanting him to be a better character. Lo and behold, we have 5.2 systematically redeeming his character and making him stand up to a lot of other Lore figures. Despite that, the Blood Elves were doing relatively fine Lore-wise and MoP made them even cooler.

Genn did get his own short, but that was necessary because every racial leader got one. Wolfheart is a shitty novel that I felt ruined a lot of things associated with the Worgen, by making Goldrinn much more favorable toward Varian and focusing way too much on the Night Elves and Varian that I felt Worgen were secondary at best. It even wrote how Varian is basically much more awesome and more powerful than all of the Worgen, which is bullcrap.

Anyway, I'm not even talking about those. I'm talking about the Goblins getting their own short story in MoP, which was the scroll short story. It went into surprising detail about Goblin culture despite being a Pandaren Aesop type of story.
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  #41  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:22 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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If you feel that the Goblins are more favored narratively because they get one aesop short story more than that's really petty.
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  #42  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:23 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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If you feel that the Goblins are more favored narratively because they get one aesop short story more than that's really petty.
Well if you choose to be obtuse and not actually read what I'm saying, then that's left up to you.
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:31 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Odok said it best

The amount of racial lore one gets depends on if the lore coincides with the exploration of the world. High Elves' story lore coincides with Dalaran story lore which is investigation of all things magic.

So really if your race can't adapt to the themes of the expansion, you're <insert favorite race> wouldn't be getting any more narrative story telling than they get now.
Really? You would think that the Dalaran story would have involved you know... humans? You would not think that Dalaran was a human city the way that we had deal with the predominance of the high elves vs. the blood elves in that city. What about high elves were necessary or particularly poignant about "Dalaran story lore" that could not have been taken by the actual human inhabitants? The presence of the high elves, in my opinion, detracted from the feeling of Dalaran vs. the Blood Elves, because it became more about the Silver Covenant vs. the Sunreavers/Blood Elves than it was about Dalaran.
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  #44  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:35 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Really? You would think that the Dalaran story would have involved you know... humans? You would not think that Dalaran was a human city the way that we had deal with the predominance of the high elves vs. the blood elves in that city. What about high elves were necessary or particularly poignant about "Dalaran story lore" that could not have been taken by the actual human inhabitants? The presence of the high elves, in my opinion, detracted from the feeling of Dalaran vs. the Blood Elves, because it became more about the Silver Covenant vs. the Sunreavers/Blood Elves than it was about Dalaran.
High Elves have been part of the Kirin Tor for 2000 years. Plus they had a Windrunner who was created in one of Knaak's books that became a Warcraft hero in WotLK. I don't know what people expect. Elve's have been a part of WC, the Alliance, since WC2. This was a way to make them part of the story again. If you don't like it well tough.

They're not going away.
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  #45  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:43 AM
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High Elves have been part of the Kirin Tor for 2000 years. Plus they had a Windrunner who was created in one of Knaak's books that became a Warcraft hero in WotLK. I don't know what people expect. Elve's have been a part of WC, the Alliance, since WC2. This was a way to make them part of the story again. If you don't like it well tough.
Humans have been a part of Dalaran for longer. Plus, they have historically been mostly human, both its inhabitants and the Kirin Tor itself. Plus, we have that one book that features a human mage of Dalaran who was the protagonist of Tides of War. Shouldn't we be seeing more of Dalaran's humanity rather than its Alliance-aligned high elves?

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They're not going away.
I'm not expecting them to go away! But they should have far less prominence than what they have been given especially in relation to other playable Alliance races. Stop trying to be a contrarian to my posts and look at how detrimental high elves have been for Alliance racial lore development! Why would you want that? Why are you defending that?
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  #46  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:49 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Humans have been a part of Dalaran for longer. Plus, they have historically been mostly human, both its inhabitants and the Kirin Tor itself. Plus, we have that one book that features a human mage of Dalaran who was the protagonist of Tides of War. Shouldn't we be seeing more of Dalaran's humanity rather than its Alliance-aligned high elves?

I'm not expecting them to go away! But they should have far less prominence than what they have been given especially in relation to other playable Alliance races. Stop trying to be a contrarian to my posts and look at how detrimental high elves have been for Alliance racial lore development! Why would you want that? Why are you defending that?
I'm not limited by worgen lore, draenei lore, human lore; all I see is Alliance lore. And I'm ok with that. Otherwise, I'd be bitter and petty always complaining about "oh great, more Draenei heroes or worgen races. When is it the Human's time to shine? When is it the dwarves time to shine?" And I personally like High Elves.

They're steadfast and loyal and have conviction. It also pays hommage to one of the Alliance's greatest heroes: Alleria.
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
I'm not limited by worgen lore, draenei lore, human lore; all I see is Alliance lore. And I'm ok with that. Otherwise, I'd be bitter and petty always complaining about "oh great, more Draenei heroes or worgen races. When is it the Human time to shine? When is it the dwarves time to shine?" And I personally like High Elves.
That's great that all you see is Alliance lore, but I hope you can understand why other Alliance fans are miffed that all the Alliance lore that they can see does not include the race of their toons.

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They're steadfast and loyal and have conviction. It also pays hommage to one of the Alliance's greatest heroes: Alleria.
At this point, the high elves have received far more than a homage in the post-WC3 Alliance narrative. That's the problem. The story has moved on, but we are still stuck having to pretend that high elves are just as important as the playable members of the Alliance.
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  #48  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:57 AM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
That's great that all you see is Alliance lore, but I hope you can understand why other Alliance fans are miffed that all the Alliance lore that they can see does not include the race of their toons.
I understand that some Alliance fans are petty and I can't change that. But I don't have to enable or encourage it either.
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  #49  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:57 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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I wonder why Ogres and Forest Trolls never got the love in WoW that High Elves did?
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  #50  
Old 12-12-2013, 12:59 AM
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I understand that some Alliance fans are petty and I can't change that. But I don't have to enable or encourage it either.
And you're somehow above pettiness? Color me impressed.
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