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View Poll Results: How Does Sylvanas Windrunner’s story arc end?
Bi-factional takedown, Raid Boss 3 11.54%
Alliance takedown 12 46.15%
Horde takedown 3 11.54%
She takes herself off the Board 13 50.00%
Sylvanas Wins 2 7.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:42 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Icefrost View Post
No decisive battle. No horde side quest to stand up for her. No captures, no trials. No last stands with banshee screams.
A blade in the night. Discreet, dishonorable and deliberately in blatant narrative disregard of her established ability to defend herself against such things.

And not just her. Someone else too, that most everyone likes, just to show that the people who did this aren't just out for revenge. They're out to take it an arguably unnecessary step further, just like she did.
There's a very valuable, very dead orcish prisoner somewhere in a Stormwind stockade, hanging by a noose tied from a living vine that seems out of place in a prison cell unless someone literally made one grow on the spot. The corpse is charred and black. You can still smell the smoke in the air. One the wall, the words "do you like to watch the flames?" are written in dried orcish blood.

They are written in Darnassian.
Pretty brutal, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I do feel like there should be more emotionally scarred characters after Tel’drassil. I’d tell you to stay away from my Saurfang, but there’s some strong narrative in someone being so damaged that they feel the need to murder a prisoner. That said, I don’t think Malfurion or Tyrande would approve. I could be wrong. I should think that Saurfang sparing Malfurion should be common knowledge by now. Still, I doubt someone in this much raw pain cares.

Basically, it’s not what I want to happen, but it’s still really good.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 09-17-2018 at 06:02 AM..
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  #27  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:06 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Honestly, I should have done a better job implying that no one person did all of that. Could've thrown in a collection of inconsistent stab wounds of different depths and striking angles, but that would've probably just come across as needlessly gratuitous to anyone who isn't familiar with a certain relatively-famous English murder mystery.

Well, now I've said it anyhow.
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  #28  
Old 10-29-2018, 12:40 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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In light of recent 8.1 datamining, I wrote this on the SoL discord and will cross-post it to the expac discussion thread

The Horde reminds me of real world politics when utilitarianism is faced with "we must do this at all costs".

I'd say extremist convervatism but despite Sylvanas actually de facto doing it, it isn't her intention to "go back to the old glorious days of Blackhand and Doomhammer".

(that was actually Thrall's big propaganda, a demagogue utilitarian, go figure)

Thing is, the faction isn't unanimously against Sylvanas like it was with Garrosh. And blizzard is aware of that, and making room for sympathizers to fit in.

So how do you solve the conflict of pro-ruthless extremism (Forsaken politics) and pro-utilitarianism (care for our people/honor/nation and fck the war)?

The simple answer (read: the one thats not going to happen) is a tone-down on the ruthless extremism without backing off from the war.

But the pro-utilitarianism group (ie. pro-Saurfang) wants retribution. Retribution for what Sylvanas did to the Horde. She "desecrated" the Horde.

What they want is a rebellion/mak'gora, and while I think a mak'gora is possible, I don't think a rebellion will happen, for meta reasons. Basically Blizzard not delivering a second MoP.

But how could a mak'gora (or similar solution) happen without completely letting the pro-ruthless extremism group down?

Not only that, but many in the pro-ruthless extremism group are devout fans of Sylvanas.

The best solution I can think of ends up being: The Alliance going full-out military juggernaut and taking everything away from Sylvanas.

She's left with 0 val'kyrs. Maybe even used her banshee form in a way that she can't fight anymore.

The only thing she can do is be a political figure. In that moment, Saurfang saves the Horde from annihilation.

No, he doesn't beat the Alliance. The Alliance still wins. The Horde is just saved from being obliterated.

In that very same moment Vol'jin should return as warchief god incarnate and probably also get on track the story plot of solving the mystery of who the fck cursed Vol'jin and named Sylvanas warchief.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2018, 05:41 AM
Brammer Brammer is offline

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I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't like Saurfang character one bit. I hope Sylvanas rallies the Horde and invades goes for a full-blown invasion of the Alliance lands. Then in the end, if she's killed in combat, so be it. But ideally, I hope she wins.
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:37 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't like Saurfang character one bit. I hope Sylvanas rallies the Horde and invades goes for a full-blown invasion of the Alliance lands. Then in the end, if she's killed in combat, so be it. But ideally, I hope she wins.
You can probably find kindred spirits over on the Story Forums.

Neither side will be allowed total victory. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a Siege of Stormwind in patch 8.3.
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  #31  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:48 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brammer View Post
I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't like Saurfang character one bit. I hope Sylvanas rallies the Horde and invades goes for a full-blown invasion of the Alliance lands. Then in the end, if she's killed in combat, so be it. But ideally, I hope she wins.
I've never really been a fan of Saurfang. He always feels like a really contrived character and his personality doesn't appeal to me.

I'm down for Sylvanas just winning. Not being redeemed, not being defeated, just keeping hold of the Horde and putting down the Saurfang rebellion. Probably with Saurfang, Baine, and others going into hiding.

But I doubt Blizzard'll do that, so many people would throw a fit. But it'd be way more interesting.
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2019, 12:10 AM
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I've never really been a fan of Saurfang. He always feels like a really contrived character and his personality doesn't appeal to me.

I'm down for Sylvanas just winning. Not being redeemed, not being defeated, just keeping hold of the Horde and putting down the Saurfang rebellion. Probably with Saurfang, Baine, and others going into hiding.

But I doubt Blizzard'll do that, so many people would throw a fit. But it'd be way more interesting.
Depressing.

I'm tired of the Horde sucking at not being genocidal monsters.

I'm tired of the narrative making it out that this is all they can be, that they fail to even try to not be everything the Alliance fears them to be.

It all just spits on so much of the earlier narrative.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:59 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Because of how aggressively the void reacts to her, and because the void is the biggest of the big baddies in Warcraft's universe, I'm sure she'll get away relatively scot free (maybe imprisoned, maybe redeemed altogether) so that she can play her part when it's time to take on the void lords.

But Sylvanas has been no fun since WotLK, her arc ended with Arthas (or should have at least). She should've died when she jumped off of Icecrown.
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:47 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Depressing.

I'm tired of the Horde sucking at not being genocidal monsters.

I'm tired of the narrative making it out that this is all they can be, that they fail to even try to not be everything the Alliance fears them to be.

It all just spits on so much of the earlier narrative.
I mean they'd basically split the faction between the monsters who've always been genocidal monsters and the rest of the Horde.

I'm not a huge fan of how we got here, but I'm pretty okay with bad people getting away with evil crap in a Blizzard game. That's what's always made their narratives unique.

Quote:
But Sylvanas has been no fun since WotLK, her arc ended with Arthas (or should have at least). She should've died when she jumped off of Icecrown.
Eh, Sylvanas was a cardboard cutout of all the other racial leaders in WotLK pretty much. It wasn't until Cataclysm they really gave her a sense of characterisation.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:31 PM
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I mean they'd basically split the faction between the monsters who've always been genocidal monsters and the rest of the Horde.

I'm not a huge fan of how we got here, but I'm pretty okay with bad people getting away with evil crap in a Blizzard game. That's what's always made their narratives unique.
Yeah but only because the evil plan was STOPPED and the 'heroes' became corrupted into the new villains, Sylvanas is long overdue for being 'stopped' and the new heroes being corrupted
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  #36  
Old 01-17-2019, 01:03 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Yeah but only because the evil plan was STOPPED and the 'heroes' became corrupted into the new villains, Sylvanas is long overdue for being 'stopped' and the new heroes being corrupted
But like, that's the thing I really take exception to. This is WarCraft. There is no divine/natural karmic retribution here.

The world is indifferent. The heroes and the righteous don't always succeed. I really want them to just go back to that.
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  #37  
Old 01-17-2019, 02:13 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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But like, that's the thing I really take exception to. This is WarCraft. There is no divine/natural karmic retribution here.

The world is indifferent. The heroes and the righteous don't always succeed. I really want them to just go back to that.
I wholly agree with your conclusion, but at the same time, I feel a large portion of the fandom have long formed this opinion that Azeroth is an idealistic and morally driven world, even though I'd say that notion runs contrary to the root of Warcraft. And going by my numerous discussions and debates on the matter, I feel this opinion is something these people are very invested in.
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  #38  
Old Yesterday, 01:26 AM
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But like, that's the thing I really take exception to. This is WarCraft. There is no divine/natural karmic retribution here.

The world is indifferent. The heroes and the righteous don't always succeed. I really want them to just go back to that.
You can't really do the 'bad guy wins' thing in an MMO with the way all the world ending threats are.

And if Sylv 'wins' frankly I'd be frustrated because she's just not that compelling a -villain-.
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  #39  
Old Today, 10:21 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I do agree that we are long overdue a "villain wins" moment so iconic to past Blizz titles, but then again this is a new Blizz we are talking about.

But I also agree with Sky that Sylvanas is not that engaging a villain either. I feel she is an annoying mix of inept and proud. I mean by these degraded standards she is a tactical genius in Warcraft of today, but she still makes terrible decisions. Arguably she lost the war when she left Varok "Honour Over Reason" Saurfang to kill Malfurion. And since then she has been on the defensive with a side serving of comic book villainy. Actions like those just do not inspire that sneaky kind of respect you get for well written villains and the shit they pull. Like how you can't help but be impressed by Tywin in Game of Thrones. And that is without analyzing her pre-BFA blunders (flashbacks of powersliding onto Frostmourne)...

So yeah it could be fun but Sylvanas may not be the best villain for the job. My prediction is that she will be ousted as Warchief but remain a relevant force in the story, possibly even beyond the grave as one of our allies in the Shadowlands.
What you could do is write an engaging villain, have them soundly beat us one expansion and then turn the tables on the next. That is the most the worst of the plebs could handle in terms of defeat I feel and it could be good fun if done well.
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