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  #4626  
Old 05-12-2017, 05:14 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Silmarillion was the only that sprang to mind as at least having something of a positive reputation.

Hrm, Fantastic Beasts and where to find them wasn't particularly great, but you might not consider it terrible.

Anyone else got suggestions?
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  #4627  
Old 05-12-2017, 05:34 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I mean, I don't like jumping around the monkey cage with the SJW thing, but when there's the whole thing of those dev's going "fuck white people11!!" on Twitter and deliberately keeping Caucasian skintones out of the custom creator- yeeeaaah. And everybody except developers knows SJW's by 'n large don't actually buy video games, so obviously going towards that audience won't have helped. I don't think virtue signalling hurt them per say, but it definitely didn't help in any way.

Throw in how much disdain and cynicism people have towards Mass Effect after 3 - which I consider the main culprit - as well as the pre-release bad press of the afore mentioned faces ("...is tired"), single-player RPG's always being a somewhat tricky genre to market to nail 'acceptable' sales figures in the eyes of publisher overlords and you had a recipe for a, frankly well deserved, crash and burn.

Maybe another six months or so could've salvaged it but I feel that it was doomed from the start. The fact we've heard this before so much as a hint towards DLC announcements certainly makes this appear worse than we may have thought, especially since there's no season pass that they're bound to.
This.

They picked a fight with the Internet with the SJW bullshit. Had they stayed out of politics, it would have been a bad game, but just that. Could have been salvaged later on in some way.

We can speculate all we want about the real reasons why things like the faces are cancerous, but it doesn't matter. The moment you start with moral bullshit, expect more hostile attention, leading to more mistakes and failures in the open.

They dug their own grave, and they deserve to lie inside it.
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  #4628  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:57 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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A game about all kinds of alien races and people get upset because their character can't be nordic white? Dunno, but for me that shit is pretty much irrelevant. I also don't really see how a developer's personal opinions and twitter relate to the game itself. I stayed away from it because I knew it would be utter shit and a cashgrab, just like Inquisition. But honestly the hysteria about "SJW" stuff says more about the people reacting than the game itself. Reading youtube comments about Andromeda is like opening the door on a group of delusional crackheads and Trumpsters.
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  #4629  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:42 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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A game about all kinds of alien races and people get upset because their character can't be nordic white? Dunno, but for me that shit is pretty much irrelevant.
You can't even play aliens though. Mass Effect's big thing is about being a human thrown into a galaxy full of different species unlike Dragon Age's more 'direct' roleplaying experience of being whatever the fuck you want. This leads into the vast majority of people self-inserting into the game (as most people do regardless of available races anyway) and I'm willing to bet the majority of people playing these games are also white (male or female). So yeah, there's a reason why people took to complaining about the lack of Caucasian skin tones. They got shit for it from most groups anyway, not just the "FUCKING SJWS I HATE THEM!" crowd, which ironically gained more traction as a result.

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I also don't really see how a developer's personal opinions and twitter relate to the game itself. I stayed away from it because I knew it would be utter shit and a cashgrab, just like Inquisition. But honestly the hysteria about "SJW" stuff says more about the people reacting than the game itself. Reading youtube comments about Andromeda is like opening the door on a group of delusional crackheads and Trumpsters.
Lets not pretend you'd not be the first one to argue that the attitude of the developers and wilful ignorance/support from the company regarding their actions reflects upon them if a developer came out saying "MAGA! BUILD THAT WALL! #TRUMP2016!"
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  #4630  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:01 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Silmarillion was the only that sprang to mind as at least having something of a positive reputation.

Hrm, Fantastic Beasts and where to find them wasn't particularly great, but you might not consider it terrible.

Anyone else got suggestions?
Isnt The Good, The Bad and The Ugly a prequel?
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  #4631  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:12 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Isnt The Good, The Bad and The Ugly a prequel?
Might be (and if so, it's one of the few good ones). I guess you could also say the same about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
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  #4632  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:34 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Deus Ex: Human Revolution was also a prequel.
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you're the edgemaster 9000 with the leet memes who's close second to Gurzog in shitposting.
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  #4633  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:37 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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You don't read the Silmarillion, you endure it.
Nice try Noldor scum.
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  #4634  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:44 AM
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A game about all kinds of alien races and people get upset because their character can't be nordic white?
Meanwhile, the industry's put up with years of people complaining they can't play their particular shade of brown, except in games which allow player character customization (and even then, that the difference is just in colour). And here's a game which allows player character customization, but doesn't allow the player character to be white.

I'll agree that the "vaguely grizzled, 30 something year old white dudes with brown hair and 5 o'clock shadow" is over-represented, and that putting in just a little bit of work to portray the full spectrum of human variety would probably be good for business, but this is a game which allowed character customization, and then went out of its way to restrict customization such that certain people couldn't create an avatar in their image.
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  #4635  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:58 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Meanwhile, the industry's put up with years of people complaining they can't play their particular shade of brown, except in games which allow player character customization (and even then, that the difference is just in colour). And here's a game which allows player character customization, but doesn't allow the player character to be white.

I'll agree that the "vaguely grizzled, 30 something year old white dudes with brown hair and 5 o'clock shadow" is over-represented, and that putting in just a little bit of work to portray the full spectrum of human variety would probably be good for business, but this is a game which allowed character customization, and then went out of its way to restrict customization such that certain people couldn't create an avatar in their image.
If they did that intentionally then that's pretty stupid / fucked up, but at the same time I thought they said it was some kind of glitch or error?
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  #4636  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:11 AM
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If they did that intentionally then that's pretty stupid / fucked up, but at the same time I thought they said it was some kind of glitch or error?
Did they? If they did and that's true, then that's just weird.
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  #4637  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:20 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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The social justice stuff strikes me more as culpably poor optics than anything else (as in, they should have known better than to post "i hate white people" on public venues). As a general rule, go by Hanlon's Razor: don't attribute to malice that which can reasonably be blamed on incompetence.

And while I don't know if the studio was incompetent or just rushed to the point of not being able to do a good job, everyday poor decision-making is a more likely explanation than assuming that a cabal of SJWs was behind everything.

Really, aside from limited customization options and that clumsily handled trans character, most of the criticisms I've heard stem from:

- Bad (or at least inconsistent) animation
- Repetitive quests
- Dull concepts (and really, how sad is it that races in a brand new galaxy all look and act like less interesting versions of races in the Milky Way? they should have radically different societies and technologies since they were never guided by Reaper tech)

None of these have anything to do with social justice.

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Deus Ex: Human Revolution was also a prequel.
I haven't played that. And even though it's widely acclaimed, I have to admit that the game being a prequel is a big reason why I'm reluctant to spend time on it.
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  #4638  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:45 PM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
You can't even play aliens though. Mass Effect's big thing is about being a human thrown into a galaxy full of different species unlike Dragon Age's more 'direct' roleplaying experience of being whatever the fuck you want. This leads into the vast majority of people self-inserting into the game (as most people do regardless of available races anyway) and I'm willing to bet the majority of people playing these games are also white (male or female). So yeah, there's a reason why people took to complaining about the lack of Caucasian skin tones. They got shit for it from most groups anyway, not just the "FUCKING SJWS I HATE THEM!" crowd, which ironically gained more traction as a result.
Yeah I agree that it's dumb to not be able to play aliens, that bothered me about the first 3 as well. I personally just don't give a fuck about making my character look as white and pasty as I am or not, so I legitimately don't understand people that get upset over it - it seems more like people desperately wanting to spot agendas and things to get mad over.


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Lets not pretend you'd not be the first one to argue that the attitude of the developers and wilful ignorance/support from the company regarding their actions reflects upon them if a developer came out saying "MAGA! BUILD THAT WALL! #TRUMP2016!"
Except your admittedly over-the-top example is a direct political statement, whereas most of the things people are upset about with Andromeda are mostly projection and assumption - such as dev X posting something on his twitter and a vocal part of the community deriving from that that the entirety of Bioware is made up of racist anti-white, anti-male SJW and deserves to be condemned for it. It's childish and largely hysteria.

I'm pretty sure some of the devs of Half-life were white Republicans. Maybe some of them were even racist, who knows. That doesn't have jack-shit to do with the game, nor does it mean the devs had a pro-white agenda in mind when they made Gordon Freeman white and male. Yes it's not an RPG and yes it's an exaggerated comparison, but that's just how ridiculous these "issues" seem to me.

What if the character you play was simply black, or latino, and you had no options to change. Does that mean there is a "racist anti-white agenda" present among the developers? Absolutely absurd.

There is plenty wrong with the game and to make fun of without spinning another bubble of "us vs them" bullshit into it.

PS: I agree with everything Hlaalu said.
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  #4639  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:12 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Yeah I agree that it's dumb to not be able to play aliens, that bothered me about the first 3 as well. I personally just don't give a fuck about making my character look as white and pasty as I am or not, so I legitimately don't understand people that get upset over it - it seems more like people desperately wanting to spot agendas and things to get mad over.
I guess the question is: do you find it equally questionable when a minority player complains about not being able to have a character who looks like them?

I did use default male Shepard, but that's mostly because I'd seen enough promotional art to already think of him that way (I played the first game several years after it came out). But the one time I made a Fem!Shep for ME3, I made her look South Asian.

None of the Morrowind or Fallout characters I've rolled have looked like me.
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  #4640  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:24 PM
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It's like people intentionally ignore the lead developer tweeting anti-white stuff on social media.
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  #4641  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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It's like people intentionally ignore the lead developer tweeting anti-white stuff on social media.
I am unsure how strongly correlated this was to the quality of their final product.
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  #4642  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:31 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I am unsure how strongly correlated this was to the quality of their final product.
You could say the same about Trump's presidency.
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  #4643  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:47 PM
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You could say the same about Trump's presidency.
I think we're missing the real issue here - the price of tea in China.

Seriously, what?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #4644  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:52 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I think we're missing the real issue here - the price of tea in China.

Seriously, what?
A jab at people who won't give someone a chance because they don't like 'em. I don't feel comfortable giving a fair chance to someone who hates me for my skin color. I won't press it further since I don't care about ME that much and the game is a flop anyway.
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  #4645  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:55 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I think we're missing the real issue here - the price of tea in China.

Seriously, what?
I think SmokeBlader's point is that the impetus behind some of Trump's policies was assumed to be bigotry because of bigoted comments he made during the campaign.

As an example there's a difference between building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants versus building a wall specifically to keep out mestizos. It could be that his intent truly was the former, and that bigoted comments were intended to stir up the base. There's not really any way to know for sure.

Personally, while I detest Trump and consider him the worst president within my lifetime, I do not consider him to personally be a racist.
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  #4646  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
A jab at people who won't give someone a chance because they don't like 'em. I don't feel comfortable giving a fair chance to someone who hates me for my skin color. I won't press it further since I don't care about ME that much and the game is a flop anyway.
Sure. To be sure, let us condemn this person for being a prick who shouldn't be in charge of any serious project. But I'm just not sure his SJW-ism is what made Andromeda so bad.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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  #4647  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:06 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Sure. To be sure, let us condemn this person for being a prick who shouldn't be in charge of any serious project. But I'm just not sure his SJW-ism is what made Andromeda so bad.
Even if it hadn't been for the (fairly minor) SJ hot buttons that may or may not have been intentional, the game was still considered bad for a variety of other reasons.
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  #4648  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:23 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I am unsure how strongly correlated this was to the quality of their final product.
It doesn't matter if it is or not.

It made enemies from their own customers, and it made their mistakes harder to pardon. A piece of shit made by someone you like isn't as bad as a piece of shit by someone who hates you.
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  #4649  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:46 PM
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I think we're missing the real issue here - the price of tea in China.

Seriously, what?
Are we starting an Opium war again ?
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  #4650  
Old 05-12-2017, 05:23 PM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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I guess the question is: do you find it equally questionable when a minority player complains about not being able to have a character who looks like them?
Thing is there are approximately 10.000 games that only sport white caucasian protagonists and no minority options, why is it such a huge fucking deal when a game has no white option? I don't give a crap whether it's the dev's agenda or not, or what one of the devs posts on twitter - people just need to put it in perspective and calm the hell down. It's literally the definition of white privilege, getting upset over something so ridiculous when this is exactly what minorities have been dealing with forever. The argument of "but so many people can't play what they identify with" just sounds callous and ridiculous after so many years of games without options besides white male protagonists.
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