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  #58026  
Old 08-11-2019, 03:26 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I really hate this argument. There are more people who will believe what those they respect tell them than there are who will believe what is 'objectively right', and saying it's okay to piss off the masses because they don't REALLY believe in your cause makes things worse!
Where are these 'masses' that I am pissing off? I couldn't disagree with this more. People who are so far down the rabbit hole aren't going to be reasoned out of it no matter how nice I am about it. They won't be convinced. They don't need to be reasoned with, and they won't. They need to be stopped. I'm here to show solidarity and support for what I believe is right, and yes, to challenge the bullshit.
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  #58027  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:02 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
Where are these 'masses' that I am pissing off? I couldn't disagree with this more. People who are so far down the rabbit hole aren't going to be reasoned out of it no matter how nice I am about it. They won't be convinced. They don't need to be reasoned with, and they won't. They need to be stopped. I'm here to show solidarity and support for what I believe is right, and yes, to challenge the bullshit.
You are absolutely hostile enough to alienate onlookers at times

If you are enough of an asshole about being right then no one cares and they'll side with the people who make them feel good even if it's self destructive

Edit:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-fred-rogers-evil/

Seriously?
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Last edited by Mutterscrawl; 08-12-2019 at 04:03 PM..
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  #58028  
Old 08-12-2019, 04:09 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You are absolutely hostile enough to alienate onlookers at times

If you are enough of an asshole about being right then no one cares and they'll side with the people who make them feel good even if it's self destructive

Edit:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-fred-rogers-evil/

Seriously?
You have to keep in mind that right-wing ideology requires only the overclass being special. Otherwise, the workers might demand things like a fair shake and rights instead of accepting that the only reason they weren't born billionaires is because they didn't work hard enough for as little as possible.
That and Mr Rogers is a prime example of the successful public broadcasting system, so they hate him to begin with.
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  #58029  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:34 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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https://www.propublica.org/article/l...ainst-migrants


This is... disturbing.

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To Peña and her colleagues, cases like Carlos’ signaled a troubling new era. Years of legal precedent had been swept away by Trump administration efforts to push through evermore harsh immigration policies like family separation. Then, when the courts pushed back and the policies were publicly rescinded, the administration discovered new ways to quietly continue them. She and her colleagues were counting hundreds of new cases of family separation along the border that occurred after the “zero tolerance” policy supposedly ended in June 2018. But no one could track what the government was doing with every case.
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  #58030  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:00 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
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  #58031  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:12 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
Baby steps, my friend. The Left is waiting with open arms for anyone who actually likes democracy.

(Better? )
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #58032  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:30 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
My wife and I might vote Democrat for the first time in 2020. I don't know. We'll see who it is. And we'll see what's left of both parties when Trump's gone.

If the whole "child separation" platform goes away when Trump's gone, and if the republicans nominate an actual person instead of a cartoon character after him, then I'll probably shift back. And I'll be grateful that at least Obama's judges didn't make it through.
Fuck yes, finally get your head out of your own asses and be the leader of the free world again instead of the lynch pin for far right misanthropic mishaps.
And finally get rid of your dumb ass two party system so you can actually gauge where the fuck your voters actually lie on the scheme of things.
And goddamn install some cybernet police, you have the goddamn funds. But only after you voted again and got rid of the two party system.
Also separate religion and state.

Fuck it give us your money so we can fix ourselves at least till you go through Enlightenment.

Last edited by Feltongue; 08-13-2019 at 08:33 PM..
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  #58033  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:04 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Fuck it give us your money.
At last a position I can get behind!
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  #58034  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:10 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
.And finally get rid of your dumb ass two party system so you can actually gauge where the fuck your voters actually lie on the scheme of things.
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But only after you voted again and got rid of the two party system.
Five bucks says Trump would still be president, except instead of a Republican Party it'd be a coalition of smaller parties.

The same Democrats would still be arguing to see who has the best chance of beating him, except they'd each be from a smaller distinct party.

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Also separate religion and state.
If we choose a hereditary monarch and name her head of the Church of America, would that count as separating religion and state?

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 08-14-2019 at 10:16 AM..
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  #58035  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:49 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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My aunt was deported last month. I'd just like to take a moment to point out that all of you here who vote for republicans for their "tough on immigration" policies are to blame for tearing her away from my uncle.
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Last edited by Kakwakas; 08-14-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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  #58036  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:20 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
The same Democrats would still be arguing to see who has the best chance of beating him, except they'd each be from a smaller distinct party.
And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
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  #58037  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:22 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
The two-party system is mainly due to our dumb FPTP system.
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  #58038  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:25 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Why does First Past The Post exist?
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  #58039  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:28 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
And those smaller parties would likely just quickly become segments of permanent "coalitions," in effect remaining two parties in all but name. When it comes down to it, the American parties are basically what other countries call party coalitions, only they're pre-formed and maintained before the elections instead of after.

Folks talk about "getting rid of the two-party system" as if it's somehow a legally mandated or constitutionally enshrined requirement or something that can be amended or legislated away, but it's really just a result of how the alignment of general political dispositions has shaken out. To "get rid of" it, one would practically have to pass some law forcing the voters to join certain other parties, which would frankly have to be enforced in a tyrannical manner for it not to be easily worked around.
Not so. Yes there is a reason your two big tent parties shaked out the way they did but if each wing of them was its own thing then there would be crossover. Clintonite types could make a coalition with most wings of the Republicans. You may think business-oriented wings of the Reps would never ally with SocDems but provided that the latter haven't gone full commie then lured by lust for power such "rotten coalitions" have happened many times throughout history.

And I disagree about your nebulous fears of tyranny too. As I understand being registered with a party is only relevant if that party holds closed primaries. So who cares if you are registered to an old party, you can stay or you can leave and join a new one if you so please. I feel I am missing something here so feel free to clue me in.

Either way FPTP is an awful system if for no other reason then for the "spoiler effect" alone. That is what is killing 3rd parties (and with them stifles political drift and new ideas coming in) in the US and also making partisanship infinitely worse in your country. If you as a Rep vote Libertarian you are just splitting your vote and giving the Dems a higher chance of winning, same with Greens and Dems. This naturally nurtures a "my party right or wrong" mindset since breaking ranks is giving the win to the "enemy." But in a more proportional system you can support the people you like, putting them in power in the legislature if not the executive branch without worrying about weakening any prospective coalition, you are just making sure that coalition will be more like you if your party enters it. Indeed have real % numbers of support means a lot, right now it seems Social Democrats are on the rise in the Dems, but maybe they get 5% of the vote in the elections and old school Dems win 35, it keeps politics sane and lets them evolve naturally.

Now this is not to say a purely representative model is not without drawbacks. The main one is imo Partiocracy. Now this exists in your current model too but it is a lot worse when you don't have local representation and your place on the party list of members is everything (the higher up you are the more likely you are to be among those elected). It leads to power being concentrated in the capital and big cities where fatcats tend to live. And since the party and loyalty to it is so important porkbarrel issues crop up more to reward the loyalists.

Ofc as is often the case, por que no los dos? You can have a more proportional system so small parties can grow and thrive as well as one with local representation which is a thing I wish we had. Good ones are Mixed Member Proportional and Schulze Method if people want to look into this, you can find it online and CGP Grey also has great videos on election methods.

I really wish my country switched to one of those two but almost no one is even talking about electoral reform, corrupt bastards. : /
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  #58040  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:58 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Has anyone else seen the creepy stockholm syndrome type tweets coming from all the Amazon PR folks?


EDIT:

https://imfemalewarrior.tumblr.com/p...ade-me-smile-i

Well this is somewhat refreshing.
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