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Old 09-20-2015, 08:52 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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I'm not sure if people on this forum are fearmongers, or if they actually believe the shit they blurt out.

Either way it's ridicolous and pathetic.


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Originally Posted by Insipid_Lobster View Post
I think it's okay to hold some semblance of fear that, just maybe, some of the people coming into Europe at the moment are a little too devout to their faith and wish to enforce their doctrine on others. It's okay to dislike that minority.
That's fine and all. Extremists are to be feared. They're dangerous. But to make the majority of refugees suffer because a minority of them might be a little too devout is appalling.
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  #16452  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:52 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I can't stop laughing anymore, you guys are absolutely hilarious. I think some of you actually believe this rubbish, it's amazing.
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  #16453  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:54 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Default The Crusades you say?



Facts, not opinion. Deal with it.
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  #16454  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:55 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insipid_Lobster View Post
I think it's okay to hold some semblance of fear that, just maybe, some of the people coming into Europe at the moment are a little too devout to their faith and wish to enforce their doctrine on others. It's okay to dislike that minority.
Same way we dislike violent and deluded minorities of any faith and culture, and don't let them gain any influence or traction.

Doesn't mean we treat the overall ethnicity or religion they belong to any differently.

An utter non-argument.

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Facts, not opinion. Deal with it.
Stop, stop, I can't laugh anymore, it's getting painful.

Apparently only Muslims were ideologically motivated to conquer others, just them, no other kingdom or religion in Europe, during all of the Middle Ages and beyond.

Oh lord, it always gets really funny when you lot try to move the goalposts and then run into them while trying that.
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  #16455  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:55 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
You misunderstand - I didn't comment on Salem. I commented on the fact that I mention "witch trials" and you bring up Salem, instead of the thousands and thousands of witch hunts in Europe during the Middle Ages.

Yes, Crusades had nothing to do with conquest of territory, control of peasantry, pogroms against Jews, ethnic cleansing, all in the name of god, never. They were purely defensive to drive back the evil Muslims. Lmao.

If you judge a German for the Holocaust today, you are just as stupid as when you judge a random Muslim for acts of extremists.
Yes, I was providing an example of what caused the witch trials. Which was likely bad bread.

And as I've said before. Take care of the families and actual Syrians. Why do we owe anything to men who want to move from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?
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  #16456  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:59 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Yes, I was providing an example of what caused the witch trials. Which was likely bad bread.

And as I've said before. Take care of the families and actual Syrians. Why do we owe anything to men who want to move from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?
Why does it have to boil down to what we may or may not owe someone? What does it matter? What kind of childish mentality is that?

They are people clearly seeking a better and easier life, fleeing from corruption, war, and poverty. Who the fuck are we to say they can't have that?
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  #16457  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:59 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Yes, I was providing an example of what caused the witch trials. Which was likely bad bread.

And as I've said before. Take care of the families and actual Syrians. Why do we owe anything to men who want to move from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?
The war refugees are the Syrians and Iraqis, largely. No clue what you're on about with those other people. Everyone goes through an asylum application process, if they are found to not have legitimate grounds for asylum they are sent back.

I'm going through it with the three refugees my family is taking care of right now. Getting into the country in no way means they will be allowed to stay or get access to anything.

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Why does it have to boil down to what we may or may not owe someone? What does it matter? What kind of childish mentality is that?

They are people clearly seeking a better and easier life, fleeing from corruption, war, and poverty. Who the fuck are we to say they can't have that?
Apparently we built all of this with our own hands, with our sweat and blood. It's not like our wealth is in any way, shape or form thanks to cheap labour and recources in developing countries elsewhere. Lol.
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  #16458  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:07 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Why does it have to boil down to what we may or may not owe someone? What does it matter? What kind of childish mentality is that?

They are people clearly seeking a better and easier life, fleeing from corruption, war, and poverty. Who the fuck are we to say they can't have that?
Because that's the way it's sold to us in the media. We owe them for picking our crops, selling us drugs, for colonialism, and much more.

As I've said, I have no problem helping them but importing them importing en mass to our countries is stupid and foolish.
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  #16459  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:11 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
Apparently we built all of this with our own hands, with our sweat and blood. It's not like our wealth is in any way, shape or form thanks to cheap labour and recources in developing countries elsewhere. Lol.
Then I shall donate my home and belongings to the poor souls from the east. I'll remain homeless to atone for the sins of history and the governments that acted without my consent.
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  #16460  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:14 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Because that's the way it's sold to us in the media. We owe them for picking our crops, selling us drugs, for colonialism, and much more.

As I've said, I have no problem helping them but importing them importing en mass to our countries is stupid and foolish.
Who are we "importing en masse"? This is so ridiculous.

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Then I shall donate my home and belongings to the poor souls from the east. I'll remain homeless to atone for the sins of history and the governments that acted without my consent.
Wait wait wait - I thought theirs were the sins of history? I thought we were all fine and dandy, and it's their base nature we're afraid of, not acts of governments or influential groups? Hmmm.
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  #16461  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:14 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I dunno, according to a lot of media reports, these aren't war refugees, rather they are climate change refugees because of how the climate is changing in the Middle East and elsewhere.

So I think that we should be referring to them as CC refugees.
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  #16462  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:17 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Because that's the way it's sold to us in the media. We owe them for picking our crops, selling us drugs, for colonialism, and much more.

As I've said, I have no problem helping them but importing them importing en mass to our countries is stupid and foolish.
Mass media are generally completely retarded and often play on emotions rather than handle facts, I'll give you that.

Was it stupid and foolish to import jews en mass after WWII too? Or arabs and kurds fleeing the Gulf War? No, it wasn't. It was very profitable. And it will be this time as well, as long as integration politics are done properly and we don't lump all the refugees together in poor neighbourhoods, fostering outsider tendencies.
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  #16463  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:19 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
Wait wait wait - I thought theirs were the sins of history? I thought we were all fine and dandy, and it's their base nature we're afraid of, not acts of governments or influential groups? Hmmm.
Well you're the one babbling about human rights but then say stuff like that in the post I quoted above.
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  #16464  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:20 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Mass media are generally completely retarded and often play on emotions rather than handle facts, I'll give you that.

Was it stupid and foolish to import jews en mass after WWII too? Or arabs and kurds fleeing the Gulf War? No, it wasn't. It was very profitable. And it will be this time as well, as long as integration politics are done properly and we don't lump all the refugees together in poor neighbourhoods, fostering outsider tendencies.
Not that it'd change much, but did any of those groups express desire to kill our citizens, or say, come from a region where those people seek to come from? I'm a fan of the camps outside of borders as long as they can be well staffed and maintained, allowing better vetting and priority status given to certain groups. Syrian families etc.
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  #16465  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:23 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Ragnahar View Post
Not that it'd change much, but did any of those groups express desire to kill our citizens, or say, come from a region where those people seek to come from? I'm a fan of the camps outside of borders as long as they can be well staffed and maintained, allowing better vetting and priority status given to certain groups. Syrian families etc.
Who among SYRIAN WAR REFUGEES "expressed a desire to kill our citizens"? This shit is so stupid it hurts.

This continuing ignorance and throwing together of "the Muslims" and the suspicion of extremists everywhere. Meanwhile, innocent people are suffering. Disgraceful.
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  #16466  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:25 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Who among SYRIAN WAR REFUGEES "expressed a desire to kill our citizens"?
The ISIS soldiers posing as refugees that are apparently infesting our civilized lands on a grand scale on par with the white man's infestation of the Americas.

Obviously.
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  #16467  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:28 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
The ISIS soldiers posing as refugees that are apparently infesting our civilized lands on a grand scale on par with the white man's infestation of the Americas.

Obviously.
There are people from the region these refugees are coming from who are extremists, who do wish to cause the Western world harm, that is a fact. I know you can read, even if your outrage buddy rather finger his butt hurt asshole on the internet.
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  #16468  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:31 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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There are people from the region these refugees are coming from who are extremists, who do wish to cause the Western world harm, that is a fact. I know you can read, even if your outrage buddy rather finger his butt hurt asshole on the internet.
I'm sure there are. But that's not a reason to raise walls and shut people out. What we have to do is funnel the money we spend on keeping them out towards proper investigation of asylum seekers and proper integration politics.
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  #16469  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:32 AM
EdWunclerIII EdWunclerIII is offline

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lol people still believe this "refugee" nonsense.
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  #16470  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:34 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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I'm sure there are. But that's not a reason to raise walls and shut people out. What we have to do is funnel the money we spend on keeping them out towards proper investigation of asylum seekers and proper integration politics.
I think it's an okay investment to make them unable to just run a border, but more investment does need to be made on the outside to set up a better system, as well as legislatures inside of the countries to start thinking of better ways to integrate. It's hard to set up a proper policy of admission if to avoid it all you have to do is walk across a border, so you do realistically need both. It's made more tense by the fact it doesn't need to be many men with evil intent to get through for large scale damage to be done. Everyone needs patience, including the refugees, but we do probably need more money, after we decide on a smart way to use it, so we don't throw good money after bad.
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  #16471  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:44 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
I'm not sure if people on this forum are fearmongers, or if they actually believe the shit they blurt out.

Either way it's ridicolous and pathetic.
In that case you should consider miffy a fear monger too. I have yet to see a logical reasoning from him. Only ''Haha racists, refugees are here to stay and you have to take care of them. Because human rights. If you disagree you're racist.'' That sure doesn't improve the image of refugees, and people don't like being told what to do.

Not to mention his hypocrisy of invoking the human rights card, but bashes western society at every opportunity. ''Your rights end where my feelings begin'' indeed.
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  #16472  
Old 09-20-2015, 10:00 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Translation: We Syrian girls fighting and dying for our country by defending our homeland from the enemy.

We are poor Syrian refugees. We don't want to fight, we want German beer and social welfare.
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  #16473  
Old 09-20-2015, 10:00 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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The interesting thing about the Crusades is that they occurred during a period of relative disunity in the Middle East. While the Abbasid Caliphate still held ostensible power, the caliphs were largely ignored by local warlords (who were very often Turkish newcomers).

The Crusades themselves started because the Turkish warlords began abusing pilgrims, who'd previously been left alone by the Abbasid authorities. Which is not to say that the Muslims had been peaceful; the caliphates had seized many lands traditionally belonging to Christianity, and the jizya tax gradually weakened the religion's hold (though I've heard that, even with the jizya, taxes under the caliph were milder than those under the Byzantine emperor, and that this helped the caliphate's spread). However, this wasn't the main reason for the Crusades.

Because of this disunity, the Crusader states often used Muslim troops to fight each other, and rival Muslim rulers. As an example, when Tancred of Antioch battled Jawali of Mosul, a substantial number of Tancred's troops consisted of Muslim soldiers on loan from Ridwan of Aleppo. Similarly, Jawali relied on knights lent to him by King Baldwin of Edessa. So it was not always a matter of Christian vs Muslim (and indeed, the Crusaders slaughtered large numbers of local Christians--the Muslims, for their part, had already been killing each other for some time before the Crusades as the Abbasid Caliphate declined and Turkish warrior clans rode in).

For the most part, the Crusades weakened the collapsing Islamic civilization, but did not play a decisive role. This can be seen in the fact that the Muslims never really organized a united counterattack. Those living in the Islamic heartlands of Persia, the Arabian Peninsula, and Mesopotamia would never have been directly affected, as the Crusades never reached these areas. Nor did the Crusades ever get very far in Egypt.

It was the Mongol invasion that really wiped things out in the region. I'm not sure that the Middle East has ever really recovered from it.
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  #16474  
Old 09-20-2015, 10:02 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
Because that's the way it's sold to us in the media. We owe them for picking our crops, selling us drugs, for colonialism, and much more.

As I've said, I have no problem helping them but importing them importing en mass to our countries is stupid and foolish.
Look at it this way: Each refugee means one less potantial recruit/victim for Jihadists.
So take 'em all in and bleed the fuckers dry, I say.
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  #16475  
Old 09-20-2015, 10:03 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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I always loved the name Tancred.

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Look at it this way: Each refugee means one less potantial recruit/victim for Jihadists.
So take 'em all in and bleed the fuckers dry, I say.
They are much harder to fight when recruited inside your borders, I wish it were as easy as this. The new threat is home grown terrorism, when they are recruited all ready inside your borders.
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