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  #7701  
Old 02-05-2019, 12:42 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Talanji’s story has just begun. Her true trials are still ahead of her.
Talanji has had 3 zones+ of character development, her analogue in Taelia is well loved and a decent character. Those two definitely thrash every single other allied racial leader (outside maybe the Nightborne) as far as representation and have more prescence than several mainline racial leaders. How much time do you honestly expect her to get after this?

Hell lets look at what they already have to cover:
They need to find time to do at least the Vulpera justice as an allied race but probably at least another one practically from scratch. They also have an entire Horde internal strife campaign (with two fleshed out paths!) to continue that seems to grow larger in scope everytime we address it, then theres Voljins Loa schtick and we've definitely got SOMETHING coming with Calia regarding the Forsaken. This is an enormous amount to cover, particularly when you consider it is all on just one faction, Alliance gets another half too and that still isnt even getting into Azshara and Nzoth...

The Zandalari as a whole are getting 1 or 2 more moderate sized stories at best and i'd bet they mostly focus on Bwomsamdis tie to the obvious future expack in the Shadowlands. Talanji is not going to turn around from the flatest allied race character leader to anything even close to matching what Rastakhan was in that time.
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  #7702  
Old 02-05-2019, 02:14 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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  #7703  
Old 02-05-2019, 11:36 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
Talanji has had 3 zones+ of character development, her analogue in Taelia is well loved and a decent character. Those two definitely thrash every single other allied racial leader (outside maybe the Nightborne) as far as representation and have more prescence than several mainline racial leaders. How much time do you honestly expect her to get after this?

Hell lets look at what they already have to cover:
They need to find time to do at least the Vulpera justice as an allied race but probably at least another one practically from scratch. They also have an entire Horde internal strife campaign (with two fleshed out paths!) to continue that seems to grow larger in scope everytime we address it, then theres Voljins Loa schtick and we've definitely got SOMETHING coming with Calia regarding the Forsaken. This is an enormous amount to cover, particularly when you consider it is all on just one faction, Alliance gets another half too and that still isnt even getting into Azshara and Nzoth...

The Zandalari as a whole are getting 1 or 2 more moderate sized stories at best and i'd bet they mostly focus on Bwomsamdis tie to the obvious future expack in the Shadowlands. Talanji is not going to turn around from the flatest allied race character leader to anything even close to matching what Rastakhan was in that time.
You exaggerate. Talanji had Nazmir. Zul’dazar was Rastakhan’s story, not Talanji’s, and the only tie she has to Vol’dun’s story is giving us the opening quest, with an odd reference here and there.

As for how she will fare in what is to come:
1. This Horde internal strife that you mention- she’s joined the Horde, so it concerns her. Especially with her declaring herself as Sylvanas’s equal rather than bending the knee.
2. Vol’Jin’s main point of contact in our world? Talanji
3. Bwonsamdi’s high priestess? Talanji.

Seems like she’ll have plenty to do, even if your theories on what is to come in the future are true.

Also, Talanji’s analogue isn’t Taelia, or at least not just Taelia. It’s Jaina. Based on their roles in leadership, Blizzard’s marketing, and the fact that Jaina leads the raid that kills Rastakhan.
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  #7704  
Old 02-05-2019, 06:42 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Yay Sylvanas, murdering her own people once again just like the compassionate selfless mother figure to her undead flock that she is.
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  #7705  
Old 02-05-2019, 08:06 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Yay Sylvanas, murdering her own people once again just like the compassionate selfless mother figure to her undead flock that she is.
Baine murders his own people, yet only fights the Alliance under heavy blackmail.

This whole choice in this scenario is fail and fail.
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  #7706  
Old 02-05-2019, 08:33 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Seen that Derek Proudmoore model yet?

Think Blizzard is just gonna say fuck it and beautify all Forsaken models instead of making separate ones for the Chinese WoW?
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  #7707  
Old 02-05-2019, 10:52 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Seen that Derek Proudmoore model yet?

Think Blizzard is just gonna say fuck it and beautify all Forsaken models instead of making separate ones for the Chinese WoW?
Depending on what Calia looks like when we see her, I think its also possible this might be what a future allied race ends up looking like.
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  #7708  
Old 02-06-2019, 01:33 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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https://www.wowhead.com/news=290141/...-the-8-1-5-ptr
great to see that when i post something on reddit they notice that players dislike it thus they make it better.

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  #7709  
Old 02-07-2019, 12:52 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Seen that Derek Proudmoore model yet?
The best part is when you notice the edges of his coat are slightly singed!


Like, we know this dude was supposedly incinerated by dragonfire before what little remained was lost in deep sea for over a decade but Sylvanas gonna raise him anyway. It's k though, we scorched up his coat a bit so its all lore cool now!

Howling with laughter!
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  #7710  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:31 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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The only detailed account of Derek's death was the Tides of Darkness novel, and this novel has been (thankfully) largerly retconned by Chronicle, so using it for reference is not particularly prudent.
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  #7711  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:07 AM
rshll rshll is offline

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The ocean is salty, salt is a natural preservative. It is okay for a body to have some meat on it after a decade under the water. Everything else is...magic.

I'm more interested, is this the way Alliance undead allied race gonna look like? The one that's led by Calia etc
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  #7712  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:31 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by rshll View Post
I'm more interested, is this the way Alliance undead allied race gonna look like? The one that's led by Calia etc
I kinda expect the holy undead ("Redeemed"?), if they turn into a real allied race, to look like pale humans with Light shining from their insides. Some like Calia or Derek may use regular human model, but I'd think Blizzard will force the playable ones to be a "thin human" variation of the undead model.
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  #7713  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:02 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
The only detailed account of Derek's death was the Tides of Darkness novel, and this novel has been (thankfully) largerly retconned by Chronicle, so using it for reference is not particularly prudent.
You're not wrong by any means but unless you have another idea for why his cloaks singed i'd say its probably still canon that he died by dragonfire at the very least. Though at that level of damage it seems more likely it merely frightened him and he fell off the boat...
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  #7714  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:52 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
You're not wrong by any means but unless you have another idea for why his cloaks singed i'd say its probably still canon that he died by dragonfire at the very least. Though at that level of damage it seems more likely it merely frightened him and he fell off the boat...
I could easily imagine him getting blasted off the deck/rigging instead of getting incarnated, either dying of shock or drowning. For a quick and accessible reference, imagine the Davos wildfire scene from A Game of Thrones show, only him dying in result instead of luckily surviving.
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  #7715  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:32 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rshll View Post
The ocean is salty, salt is a natural preservative. It is okay for a body to have some meat on it after a decade under the water. Everything else is...magic.

I'm more interested, is this the way Alliance undead allied race gonna look like? The one that's led by Calia etc
Yeah, no. Sea water is just about the most corrosive thing you can find. And that is without the obvious fact it is full of animals that like to nibble on corpses. I do not think even bones would remain of Derek at this point. It is total ridiculous that he would look like this... but Blizz is gonna Blizz so.
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  #7716  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:21 AM
rshll rshll is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Yeah, no. Sea water is just about the most corrosive thing you can find. And that is without the obvious fact it is full of animals that like to nibble on corpses. I do not think even bones would remain of Derek at this point. It is total ridiculous that he would look like this... but Blizz is gonna Blizz so.
So you know the level of salt in that area and how does magic exactly works in Azeroth
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  #7717  
Old 02-07-2019, 09:18 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Yeah, no. Sea water is just about the most corrosive thing you can find. And that is without the obvious fact it is full of animals that like to nibble on corpses. I do not think even bones would remain of Derek at this point. It is total ridiculous that he would look like this... but Blizz is gonna Blizz so.
I agree, but I'm thinking the raising ritual Sylvanas used put some flesh on him, reconstituted but not totally.
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  #7718  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:30 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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A common complain I hear about the idea of "lightsaken" or whatever people are calling the Calia-led potential Alliance Undead allied race is that it would further make the Forsaken come across as less justified in calling themselves that and would take away them being torch-bearers of Lordaeron's heritage, also that it would further reinforce the theme that the Horde are the faction of bad guys whereas the Alliance get the nicer and more heroic races.

What does everyone else think? Let's just entertain the concept at the very least. How could Blizzard implement them while still addressing these concerns that Undead fans have?
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  #7719  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:58 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
Talanji has had 3 zones+ of character development,
I'm sorry how do you figure?
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  #7720  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:06 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
A common complain I hear about the idea of "lightsaken" or whatever people are calling the Calia-led potential Alliance Undead allied race is that it would further make the Forsaken come across as less justified in calling themselves that and would take away them being torch-bearers of Lordaeron's heritage, also that it would further reinforce the theme that the Horde are the faction of bad guys whereas the Alliance get the nicer and more heroic races.

What does everyone else think? Let's just entertain the concept at the very least. How could Blizzard implement them while still addressing these concerns that Undead fans have?
I like “redeemed” but that’s just me.

I’d argue that with the Forsaken losing Undercity, not to mention all the distinction that was emphasized in Before the Storm, “Undercity, not Lordaeron” the debate over whether or not the Forsaken are the true people of Lordaeron has been settled. Under Calia, a new allied race could take a role of more or less the true heirs of Lordain.

As for the Forsaken, they need a new identity anyway. It was easier when Arthas was alive. Vendetta defined them. Sylvanas’s fate by the end of Battle for Azeroth will help define what the Forsaken will become. Are they survivors, Rebels against death? The damned, struggling against their sentence? Are they victors? Is there someone else they could swear vengeance against? Are they the doomed, delaying inevitable oblivion?

I imagine next expansion is going to have to focus on them heavily just to deal with whatever the aftermath of Sylvanas’s fate.
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  #7721  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:10 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Oddly enough, the when I look at that Derek model I don't even think of Forsaken, Scourge of "light undead." Maybe it's just the greenish pallor of his skin and hair, but that looks to me almost like some kind of human kvaldir.
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  #7722  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:15 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Well, I'll handwave Derek's condition as the result of being blasted by Dragonfire plus a combo of other freak circunstances. Red dragons' breath is known to scorch the earth but turn it fertile, and it was also what kept Bolvar half-alive.

Maybe being scorched in Dragonfire (but quickly doused in water and drowned) is what made Derek's corpse extra resistant to decomposition?

Yeah, it's a big stretch, but it's the best excuse I could come with.
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  #7723  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:59 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
A common complain I hear about the idea of "lightsaken" or whatever people are calling the Calia-led potential Alliance Undead allied race is that it would further make the Forsaken come across as less justified in calling themselves that and would take away them being torch-bearers of Lordaeron's heritage, also that it would further reinforce the theme that the Horde are the faction of bad guys whereas the Alliance get the nicer and more heroic races.

What does everyone else think? Let's just entertain the concept at the very least. How could Blizzard implement them while still addressing these concerns that Undead fans have?
I'd be pissed if I was still deep in the game. For a long time I and people like me wanted a more nuanced portrayal of the Forsaken. Focusing on the duality of going from a normal everyday person to a monster. Dealing with peculiarities of undead existence. How they deal with all the horror they endured and caused while under the thrall of the Lich King. And ofc the legacy of old Lordaeron.

If they would to give all of that potential that was hardly if at all realized among the Forsaken themselves and cart if off to a new race, on the opposing side no less well that'd be like making a wound and then salting it just for added spite.
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  #7724  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:48 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I've long assumed that Derek remained preserved due to the red dragonfire that struck him, which we know can have preserving properties.
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  #7725  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:37 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Come on guys. Stop overthinking the Derek's state of decay.

We already had Thoras being in a better state of preservation than his son, Galen.
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