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  #9751  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:24 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
I see that the cancer that is Cucktus keep on polluting this forum. This ban is the biggest joke upon SoL as worse offenders get away with barely a slap on the wrist.

Cucktus, you're a disgrace of a human being, I loathe everything you stand for and I hope the worst upon your sorry existence.
That you can't do it yourself but got someone else to do it for you speak volume of your character.

Don't like what I have to say? Well go fuck yourself.
Let's nip this right in the bud.

This wasn't Cantus's decision. This was a staff decision.

I cast my vote. I wrote up the charges. I carried out the ban. Someone else will handle the behind the scenes clean-up. I made the announcement.
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  #9752  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:26 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
I hope you moderators at least read and consider this

-C9
As long as we're going on record, Anansi stands with the mods on this. He was an obnoxious jerk who responded to each of the many olive branches I offered him with flaming and almost incoherent rage. I don't know what you liked about him, but I'm glad he's gone.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #9753  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:27 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
A quarter of a year isnt short, though, and it tends to hold more weight than a week or even a month long ban.

Long term bans are effective for various reasons.

1.) They are often the same as a perma ban, as they drive the person off if they are just here for trouble.
2.) If he honestly likes posting here, it sends a MUCH stronger message than other bans as far as "We are tired of your shit" goes.
3.) Taking those two into account, it leaves open a door for return and rehabilitation for community members.
On the forum I manage we turn a blind eye on permabanned people that come back under another name after a while, IF they behave.
If they start shit up again (it happened once) they get the full whack-a-mole IP ban treatment.
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  #9754  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:28 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Whether you agree or disagree with the ban, you're welcome to voice your opinion. However, (a) be respectful to other posters even if they disagree with you and (b) don't single out members of the mod/admin team for a decision we took as a team.
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  #9755  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:32 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
On the forum I manage we turn a blind eye on permabanned people that come back under another name after a while, IF they behave.
If they start shit up again (it happened once) they get the full whack-a-mole IP ban treatment.
I think one of the biggest problems with SoL banning is Slowpoke set a standard of ban evading, multiple accounts. ect to get around it (Disclosure, I was against Slows ban due to how it was handled as well. In his case, if I recall, he followed what he was told and got banned anyway).

Now upholding a permaban just feels... targeted. Or at least hypocritical to a certain degree. And yes, Im aware they kinda just gave up trying to keep him out.
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  #9756  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:39 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
I hope you moderators at least read and consider this

-C9
I've read your concerns (I've snipped most of your post for the sake of brevity, sorry), and while it is not currently our stated practice to give posters a final warning (In the strictest sense, we only need to give three. Hammerbrew surpassed that number by quite a bit), I'm willing to discuss the merit of such a change to the rules.
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  #9757  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:50 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I suspect it's less a matter of what's said than how it's said. K is snide, but Hammerbrew was aggressive.
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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
As long as we're going on record, Anansi stands with the mods on this. He was an obnoxious jerk who responded to each of the many olive branches I offered him with flaming and almost incoherent rage. I don't know what you liked about him, but I'm glad he's gone.
Imo that was just a part of his personality and dare I say charm, some Brits have that "fuck you and your mum" thing going on and I never found it offensive. It was mostly a banter sort of thing, yeah sometimes he got mad and perhaps he should get some moderation for that but honestly I prefer people who get mad than who are coolly provocative and intentionally malicious like Kak and some others can be at times.

Most importantly regardless if I like or don't like Hammer, a progression of bans (number of steps and the steepness of those tbd by the mods) and a final warning are absolutely necessary as I see it so we have a fair and correction oriented moderation system.
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  #9758  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:04 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Imo that was just a part of his personality and dare I say charm, some Brits have that "fuck you and your mum" thing going on and I never found it offensive. It was mostly a banter sort of thing, yeah sometimes he got mad and perhaps he should get some moderation for that but honestly I prefer people who get mad than who are coolly provocative and intentionally malicious like Kak and some others can be at times.
I get that breed of British banter, and appreciate it in most cases. Hammerbrew's vengeful and xenophobic slurring against anyone who ever disagreed with or contradicted him wasn't exactly banter, though, was it? It was just hate.

K may be an ass, but he's willing to talk on a coherent level. He doesn't resort to flaming and shit-flinging whenever someone pisses him off or criticizes his behavior. He can be argued with. Hammerbrew couldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Most importantly regardless if I like or don't like Hammer, a progression of bans (number of steps and the steepness of those tbd by the mods) and a final warning are absolutely necessary as I see it so we have a fair and correction oriented moderation system.
From what I've read of the reports Kellick posted, everything except the final warning followed this formula.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #9759  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:09 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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This place is taking an interesting turn. Can't say I am fond of it.
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  #9760  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:13 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
This place is taking an interesting turn. Can't say I am fond of it.
Can you help me understand your concerns? Because I'm honestly puzzled.
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  #9761  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:15 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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honestly I prefer people who get mad than who are coolly provocative and intentionally malicious like Kak and some others can be at times
I very much agree.

And in fact I feel the exact opposite as Anansi. I think the anger and such can be reasoned with and the malicious posters ala Kak cant be. Kak will "discuss" but only to use it as a way to further twist a knife.

Hammers type of poster will always be far more approachable and willing to discuss things with.*

*Again, in this situation Kak is used as an example. Im not (currently) calling for action, though I do believe a conversation needs to be had regarding hostile posting styles and why some are addressed and others arent, despite it (as C and I can attest to) being a matter of opinion on which one is worse.
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  #9762  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:16 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Let's nip this right in the bud.

This wasn't Cantus's decision. This was a staff decision.

I cast my vote. I wrote up the charges. I carried out the ban. Someone else will handle the behind the scenes clean-up. I made the announcement.
Well, good to know you've got your mouth glued to Cucktus little cockhead. Kellick, you can permanently go fuck yourself, I've got no more respect for you.

Enough is fucking enough, your partisan ways are fucking disgusting and utterly loathsome. Who is next to be purged to purify your echo chamber? Gani? Frost? Myself?

Posters like Kek-Galdus, Genya, Gurzog and Yog is way, way worse than anything Hammer has written in anger.
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  #9763  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:21 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I very much agree.

And in fact I feel the exact opposite as Anansi. I think the anger and such can be reasoned with and the malicious posters ala Kak cant be. Kak will "discuss" but only to use it as a way to further twist a knife.

Hammers type of poster will always be far more approachable and willing to discuss things with.
That's really strange. I simply can't agree.

I mean, K won't ever concede that's he's wrong, sure, but his logic is approachable and the fallacies can be pretty easily identified and isolated. Hammerbrew refused even to engage on rational terms, resorting instead to emotion, which is to say anger.

Maybe Hammer was more willing to talk things out with people like you, nonane, and the angry elf over there, but to anyone he disliked (myself included) he was absolutely unapproachable.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #9764  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:23 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
*Whoa nelly*.
Yask, seriously, don't do this to yourself, take a break and decompress.
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  #9765  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:29 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
That's really strange. I simply can't agree.

I mean, K won't ever concede that's he's wrong, sure, but his logic is approachable and the fallacies can be pretty easily identified and isolated. Hammerbrew refused even to engage on rational terms, resorting instead to emotion, which is to say anger.

Maybe Hammer was more willing to talk things out with people like you, nonane, and the angry elf over there, but to anyone he disliked (myself included) he was absolutely unapproachable.
Exactly that though.

Emotion and logic, despite what people say, arent different. Not really. Hammer may make appeals to emotion in times of anger and react with anger at times I personally wouldnt, but that isnt a bad thing as long as you can get them to admit the possibility of being wrong, and as long as you can empathize and understand the anger enough to influence it using logic. Emotion is actually a fairly big component of how we think and understand things.

You cant do anything with someone who wont admit they are wrong, no matter how approachable.
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  #9766  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:29 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
On one hand, I understand that. On the other, I find the snide comments, personally, far more offputting than overt aggression.
I think this actually clarifies a lot. Hammerbrew was extremely aggressive and blunt, while Kakwakas is snide. Both can be disruptive, but individuals might be bothered more by one or the other.

Personally, I think Hammerbrew should have been warned rather than banned outright. While he flew off the handle way too easily, I don't think he's alone in that. I will say that I often enjoyed talking to him about some games, so I am biased. I also acknowledge that he was unnecessarily vicious to some posters.

Not challenging the mods here, just giving out my opinion. I understand you guys have a tough balancing act.

I still think that the existence of politics threads acts as a locus for bad behavior, and we're probably better off deleting them. However, isolating such threads has worked better than I thought it would (which is not to say that I think the current situation is optimal).
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  #9767  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:30 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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I disagree and do not find Hammer to be anymore vile than some other postets.
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  #9768  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:34 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Imo that was just a part of his personality and dare I say charm, some Brits have that "fuck you and your mum" thing going on and I never found it offensive. It was mostly a banter sort of thing, yeah sometimes he got mad and perhaps he should get some moderation for that but honestly I prefer people who get mad than who are coolly provocative and intentionally malicious like Kak and some others can be at times.
Meh. The guy constantly insulted individuals and groups alike, while at the same time acting like he was victimized whenever anyone said anything back to him. You don't get to be the 'celebrate dead children because they're associated with the political opposition' guy, and then complain when someone is sarcastic in your direction. He had long lost interest in any form of general discussion, only in angrily yelling and insulting anyone who expressed even the slightest disagreement. Also, he wrote 'of' instead of 'have'.

His abrasive behavior genuinely almost drove me off the forum more than once.

Quote:
Most importantly regardless if I like or don't like Hammer, a progression of bans (number of steps and the steepness of those tbd by the mods) and a final warning are absolutely necessary as I see it so we have a fair and correction oriented moderation system.
That one I will agree with.
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  #9769  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:34 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Well, good to know you've got your mouth glued to Cucktus little cockhead. Kellick, you can permanently go fuck yourself, I've got no more respect for you.

Enough is fucking enough, your partisan ways are fucking disgusting and utterly loathsome. Who is next to be purged to purify your echo chamber? Gani? Frost? Myself?

Posters like Kek-Galdus, Genya, Gurzog and Yog is way, way worse than anything Hammer has written in anger.
Well you're just a delight, aren't you?

No, partisanship was not part of the decision to ban Hammerbrew. Merely agreeing with him on various issues is not grounds for moderation.

You know what is though?

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6.b.1. Definition of Harassment - Repeatedly (3 or more posts within a day) making abusive, derogatory, or ad hominem attacks of one or more posters throughout multiple pages or threads with little or no response in kind.
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  #9770  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:35 PM
Torch Torch is offline

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It's almost as if the strong/far right posters think Hammer did nothing wrong, whereas the more left/centrist posters are saying "Yeah, he was actually a bit of a cunt."

You know what got me about Hammer that I guess nobody really cares about? The bit where he said that the only way people could like curry was because liberal "must respect Mooselimb stuff" or some BS like that. Either the guy really, really hates curry, or he has no appreciation for history, and cannot comprehend anyone liking anything vaguely Indian/Middle Eastern without being forced. Which certainly has implications.

Oh, and was the Fuck every single Muslim because some Muslims commit terrorism, "But Breivik wasn't really that wrong for murdering people because I hate them" genuine? If so, yeah, that's kinda apologising for terrorism. That's the kinda shit that should get people banned.
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  #9771  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:36 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
as long as you can get them to admit the possibility of being wrong.
Well that's the trick. I never managed it with Hammerbrew.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #9772  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:36 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Sucks to see him go but it is what it is I guess. Can't ever remember having much quarrel with him and he'd least respond to my posts with more insight than just saying 'Ok', but then again I've started to become less engaged with the goings-on here for something like that to ever happen.

Quote:
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I suspect it's less a matter of what's said than how it's said. K is snide, but Hammerbrew was aggressive.
I'm not exactly sure how one is less bad than the other.
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  #9773  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:36 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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All I have to say is you guys (the mod-team) are dicks for deciding to do this shit when it's almost midnight over here in the Yurop, on a sunday of all days. That's bad planning. I won't be able to witness the meltdown first-hand. So thanks for that, Kellick.
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  #9774  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:38 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Yask, seriously, don't do this to yourself, take a break and decompress.
No fucking way, I am not backing down.
Either Cucktus is permanently removed from any position of power on this site or Hammer is given a temporary ban or they can just fucking go ahead and hand me a permanent ban because this is war.

Fist they came for Hammer and you applauded. Then they came for Gani and you cheered. Then they came for Frost and you laughed. Next for the purge was Yaska and you shrugged. Then they came for you because Cucktus has a bleeding arsehole and none was left to say anything.
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  #9775  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:39 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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he'd least respond to my posts with more insight than just saying 'Ok'
Man, Noitora really got under your skin, didn't he? If it's any consolation, I still care about werewolves.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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