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View Poll Results: Which of these allied race combos would you prefer?
Vrykul (A)/MU Clans (H) 11 28.21%
Kul Tirans (A)/MU Clans (H) 16 41.03%
Kul Tirans (A)/AU Clans (H) 9 23.08%
Vrykul (A)/AU Clans (H) 3 7.69%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #951  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:21 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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If we are using the eight present allied races as examples of the criteria for them (being, variants of existing races), then the only suitable options for gnomes are leper gnomes, and for goblins, gilgoblins. (This is without going into the realm of fan fiction to create a new variant race like they did with void elves).

Worgen would be night elf worgen. Undead are a bit trickier. Probably would be Intact Undead a la Nathanos. But that's bland even by Allied Race standards. Undead elves are the better choice there's so many elves already. Could you with Banshees that work a la Sylvanas (i.e. Zombie elf out of combat with a transform) to give the Horde a morphing race to match the worgen.

Granted, I fully expect Blizzard to just not give a shit about design consistency and throw in something unrelated like those fox things. If they're not willing to do broken I don't see leper gnomes happening.

If we are going to put there wishes, I'd go for dark trolls on the Alliance.

Not playing this shit either way so I dunno why I care.
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  #952  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:02 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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If we are using the eight present allied races as examples of the criteria for them (being, variants of existing races), then the only suitable options for gnomes are leper gnomes, and for goblins, gilgoblins. (This is without going into the realm of fan fiction to create a new variant race like they did with void elves).

Worgen would be night elf worgen. Undead are a bit trickier. Probably would be Intact Undead a la Nathanos. But that's bland even by Allied Race standards. Undead elves are the better choice there's so many elves already. Could you with Banshees that work a la Sylvanas (i.e. Zombie elf out of combat with a transform) to give the Horde a morphing race to match the worgen.

Granted, I fully expect Blizzard to just not give a shit about design consistency and throw in something unrelated like those fox things. If they're not willing to do broken I don't see leper gnomes happening.

If we are going to put there wishes, I'd go for dark trolls on the Alliance.

Not playing this shit either way so I dunno why I care.
You forgot mechagnomes and Hob-goblins. The problem I have with Gil-Goblins is they bring nothing to the table. They don’t address any particular part of the Goblin fantasy, nor do they expand it. Even Void Elves at least have the opposing relationship with the Blood Elves current conversion to the light, if nothing else.
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  #953  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:07 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I can't say I'm that much of a fan of giving either faction the opposite faction's races but with a different philosophy or mindset that works with that faction. I find that just destroys the flavor of the factions. I'm partially fine with it in the case of Void Elves and Nightborne, since that was just one case, but doing it to every single race is recipe for disaster in my opinion.

I am, however, not opposed to the idea of either faction having access to the opposite faction's animations and skeleton.

Just for an example, I could see Alliance having something like "good" wicker creatures or tentacle priests with the Forsaken skeleton and Furbolg or Krokul with the Tauren skeleton.

For Horde, I could see them get Mogu with the Draenei skeleton and Saurok or Saberon with the Worgen skeleton.

Stuff like that is what I'm way more partial to than putting race offshoots on the opposite faction.
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  #954  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:22 PM
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You forgot mechagnomes and Hob-goblins. The problem I have with Gil-Goblins is they bring nothing to the table. They don’t address any particular part of the Goblin fantasy, nor do they expand it. Even Void Elves at least have the opposing relationship with the Blood Elves current conversion to the light, if nothing else.
I didn't forget about them.

1. I admit there's nothing totally disqualifying about Mechagnomes, but they haven't shown up since Wrath and potential for customization seems limited.

2. Hobgoblins use the ogre skeleton and thus are outside the qualification established by the other allied races, despite possessing lore connections.

I could argue that gilgoblins are the only chance at a playable aquatic race, since naga isn't ever happening. And since this seems like the closest thing to an aquatic expansion that'll happen, seems like a good time.


That being said, I don't actually expect Blizzard to use them. They're just the on the fact of being the only goblin variant that uses the goblin skeleton.
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  #955  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:49 PM
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I can't say I'm that much of a fan of giving either faction the opposite faction's races but with a different philosophy or mindset that works with that faction. I find that just destroys the flavor of the factions. I'm partially fine with it in the case of Void Elves and Nightborne, since that was just one case, but doing it to every single race is recipe for disaster in my opinion.

I am, however, not opposed to the idea of either faction having access to the opposite faction's animations and skeleton.

Just for an example, I could see Alliance having something like "good" wicker creatures or tentacle priests with the Forsaken skeleton and Furbolg or Krokul with the Tauren skeleton.

For Horde, I could see them get Mogu with the Draenei skeleton and Saurok or Saberon with the Worgen skeleton.

Stuff like that is what I'm way more partial to than putting race offshoots on the opposite faction.
I feel there’s room for at most one more set of turncoats. It certainly shouldn’t be all the races. Of the ones that remain I’d say some Goblin variant and Leper Gnomes are good candidates: the former because of Goblins history as a neutral faction along with their mercenary tendencies, leper Gnomes because they are the exact opposite of the Gnomes of the Alliance and their ties to Sylvanas. But, if there are no more turncoats I won’t lose any sleep over it.

As I see it there are 4 categories of Allied Race out there:
1. Lightforged Draenei and High Mountain Tauren really add nothing to the fantasies of their counterparts. Instead they focus on their core elements (Light/nature) to the exclusion of all else.
2. Dark Iron Dwarves and Mag’har Orcs represent significant enough divergence to make things interesting.
3. Nightborne and Void Elves represent a reversal of the themes of their templates, making them more interesting.
4. Kul Tirans and Zandalari are visually much more than reskins, though still obviously variations on the themes presented by the base races.

On the other hand I’m tempted sometimes to put Zandalari and Dark Irins in the first category.

In the mean time, I imagine that we may be able to predict new Allied Races based on BfA content. Or maybe we can predict BfA content by datamining/predicting allied races.

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I didn't forget about them.

1. I admit there's nothing totally disqualifying about Mechagnomes, but they haven't shown up since Wrath and potential for customization seems limited.

2. Hobgoblins use the ogre skeleton and thus are outside the qualification established by the other allied races, despite possessing lore connections.

I could argue that gilgoblins are the only chance at a playable aquatic race, since naga isn't ever happening. And since this seems like the closest thing to an aquatic expansion that'll happen, seems like a good time.


That being said, I don't actually expect Blizzard to use them. They're just the on the fact of being the only goblin variant that uses the goblin skeleton.
Both Kul Tirans and Zandalari are physically different enough from their templates to allow for Hob-Goblins.
I’d argue that mechagnome customization is only as limited as one imagines it to be.

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  #956  
Old 04-18-2018, 06:01 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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My understanding is that Zandalari are based on the night elf skeleton. At least, they were during Mists of Pandaria. Can't speak to Kul Tirans, but presumably they are built from a skeleton that allows for equipment. Maybe vrykul.


The thing I'm emphasizing here is that clearly Blizzard is looking to cut corners here. The reason KT humans are the allied race for humans is that they were already building those fat human models for NPCs and mobs in KT.

So unless they're planning a substantial hobgoblin presence in the Kezan dungeon I think hobgoblins are too much work for them to do it. (If hobgobs were based on the orc skeleton or something rather than the ogre one I might not think it so far fetched)

Comparatively, gilgoblins are just a matter of minor model adjustments and retexturing, especially given that the dimorphism in goblins is fairly minor. Coming up with a female gilgoblin would be easier than a female hobgoblin.

Whether or not they're the better choice isn't so much what I'm arguing. I'm arguing what I think the likely choice is.

(Though, leper gnomes are the better choice over mechagnomes, primarily because that might be the only way the story of Gnomeregan ever resolves or progresses. I've no grudge against mechagnomes but they are not very relevant)

But given that those weird fox gnomes apparently use the goblin skeleton, I figure the truly most likely option is Blizzard chooses them and Allied Races are left a conceptually confused feature.

I can equally imagine them just deciding to leave it at eight allies races.
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  #957  
Old 04-22-2018, 02:17 AM
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I really think hobgoblins should be our goblin allied race. Even if we absolutley can't use the ogre rig (even though it's perfectly fine for a player rig, it's got mounting, dancing and looting animations and all that) we can just put the new model on the Kul Tiran rig.

Hey, BTW, Kul Tirans use a new rig. So the allied races don't have to use an existing one.
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  #958  
Old 04-22-2018, 05:49 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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I really think hobgoblins should be our goblin allied race.
Oh, to be clear, I'm not arguing what I think should be the goblin allied race. I'm just thinking about what I think the most likely options are, primarily based upon the extrapolated criteria of the other allied races.

The primary reason I put gilgoblins above hobgoblins are the gilgoblins would be the easier one for Blizzard to make, and since laziness seems to be the unifying factor here, that makes them more likely in my eyes.

If I were giving my person opinion... well, honestly, I don't like goblins in the first place, so I am not sure how much I care. But I wouldn't be arguing against hobgoblins. I've nothing against them or those that wish them to be an allied race.


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Hey, BTW, Kul Tirans use a new rig. So the allied races don't have to use an existing one.
Fair enough. Though, I think its worth considering that its much easier to justify a custom skeleton / rig for something like a human model than it is for a hobgoblin. First of all, you have three dedicated Kul Tiran zones to utilize them in. Moreover, being that humans show up everywhere, its something they can get a lot of mileage out of in the future.

So, again, unless hobgoblins figure heavily in the Kezan dungeon, I don't think Blizzard would think they'd be worth the required work.
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  #959  
Old 04-22-2018, 06:39 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Oh, to be clear, I'm not arguing what I think should be the goblin allied race. I'm just thinking about what I think the most likely options are, primarily based upon the extrapolated criteria of the other allied races.

The primary reason I put gilgoblins above hobgoblins are the gilgoblins would be the easier one for Blizzard to make, and since laziness seems to be the unifying factor here, that makes them more likely in my eyes.

If I were giving my person opinion... well, honestly, I don't like goblins in the first place, so I am not sure how much I care. But I wouldn't be arguing against hobgoblins. I've nothing against them or those that wish them to be an allied race.



Fair enough. Though, I think its worth considering that its much easier to justify a custom skeleton / rig for something like a human model than it is for a hobgoblin. First of all, you have three dedicated Kul Tiran zones to utilize them in. Moreover, being that humans show up everywhere, its something they can get a lot of mileage out of in the future.

So, again, unless hobgoblins figure heavily in the Kezan dungeon, I don't think Blizzard would think they'd be worth the required work.
HobGoblins in Kezan certainly isn’t a stretch.
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  #960  
Old 04-22-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
The primary reason I put gilgoblins above hobgoblins are the gilgoblins would be the easier one for Blizzard to make, and since laziness seems to be the unifying factor here, that makes them more likely in my eyes.
Blizzard has no obligation to make an allied race of each normal race. If there's no good goblin alternative, there will be no goblin allied race. And everything points out that the "goblin" allied race will be vulpera anyway: same skeleton, but no relation to goblins at all.

I also think we won't have a gnome allied race, unless Blizzard can pull out something new with the same skeleton, as it seems to be doing with goblins/vulpera.
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  #961  
Old 04-22-2018, 03:42 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Blizzard has no obligation to make an allied race of each normal race. If there's no good goblin alternative, there will be no goblin allied race. And everything points out that the "goblin" allied race will be vulpera anyway: same skeleton, but no relation to goblins at all.

I also think we won't have a gnome allied race, unless Blizzard can pull out something new with the same skeleton, as it seems to be doing with goblins/vulpera.
Oh, I agree. Honestly, none of the races currently without allied race counterparts have choices that seem solid enough to actually be chosen by Blizzard.

I'm sure fox gnomes are going to happen. Given that that they don't really mesh with the existing design choices (i.e. all the allied races currently are not sufficiently distinct from existing races to have been justifiably added as a new race in the traditional model), it irks me a little, but it does fit with the most dominant design choice of laziness.

And as it involves something made from whole cloth for the new expansion, that's not really territory I am going to waste my creative energies on.
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  #962  
Old 04-22-2018, 05:25 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Blizzard has no obligation to make an allied race of each normal race. If there's no good goblin alternative, there will be no goblin allied race. And everything points out that the "goblin" allied race will be vulpera anyway: same skeleton, but no relation to goblins at all.

I also think we won't have a gnome allied race, unless Blizzard can pull out something new with the same skeleton, as it seems to be doing with goblins/vulpera.
What’s wrong with Leper Gnomes or Mechagnomes?
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  #963  
Old 04-22-2018, 06:57 PM
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What’s wrong with Leper Gnomes or Mechagnomes?
While there's all kinds of people around, I don't think there's that many people itching to play as Leper Gnomes or Mechagnomes.
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  #964  
Old 04-22-2018, 08:21 PM
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Mechagnomes would look aesthetically terrible in armour.
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  #965  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:12 AM
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What’s wrong with Leper Gnomes or Mechagnomes?
Nothing with them as such. They just don't warrant an Allied Race, given they're just gnomes of a different color. It's the same reason I don't like Highmoutain Tauren or Lightforged Draenei as Allied Races, instead of as new cosmetic options.
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  #966  
Old 04-29-2018, 02:04 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Nothing with them as such. They just don't warrant an Allied Race, given they're just gnomes of a different color. It's the same reason I don't like Highmoutain Tauren or Lightforged Draenei as Allied Races, instead of as new cosmetic options.
I can see where you’re coming from, and I can agree with you on Principle, but I feel leper gnomes at least are a bit more than a pallet swap, especially if they go Horde.

In the mean time, I have idea for an Undead Allied Race: the Burning Dead.

For these guys, Bolvar is more or less the prototype. They should be dead, but their bodies are animated by Living Dragonfire. I’m thinking either Sylvanas and what’s left of her Valkyr or Bolvar himself raise a large group from either just South of Andorhol or from Scarlet Territory in the Eastern Plaguelands. Maybe reuse the Death Knight starting area. I kinda feel Alexstrasza sacrifices all the life force/magic she has left (and maybe what’s left of the Red Flight with her) to save them by turning them into Burning Dead, which is somewhat more wholesome than necromancy, but only just. It creates a nice aesthetic change with legitimate in lore reasons for why they are the way they are. I kinda like these guys for the Alliance.

Racials: a fire resistance, something channeling the Dragonfire to heal and harm, rezzing as a racial ability.

Classes: Hunter, Mage, Priest, Paladin, Monk, Warrior, maybe Druid and/or Warlock. Death Knight as a Long Shot.

I also had an idea for a more Val’kyr oriented variant, but this seemed better to me.
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  #967  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:20 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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So we can agree that Night Elf Worgen, Undead Elves, Mechagnomes, and Gilgoblins are all boring as fuck and not very popular or interesting ideas for allied race offshoots of the core races that still don't have an offshoot yet?

Personally, I think if they want to make a proper offshoot for any of these races they should touch on themes that haven't been done before. Worgen offshoot shouldn't just be more of the same Druidism savage nature motif, Gnomes shouldn't just be another technological genius race, Undead shouldn't just be more undead, etc.
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  #968  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:37 AM
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Implying that vulpera aren't the combined worgen and goblin allied race. A worgen pelt stretched over the frame of a goblin!

(Actually, I would not mind any of those four races, Grim. Though mechagnomes would look odd wearing most armour sets, so maybe those are a no-no.)
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  #969  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:02 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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So we can agree that Night Elf Worgen, Undead Elves, Mechagnomes, and Gilgoblins are all boring as fuck and not very popular or interesting ideas for allied race offshoots of the core races that still don't have an offshoot yet?

Personally, I think if they want to make a proper offshoot for any of these races they should touch on themes that haven't been done before. Worgen offshoot shouldn't just be more of the same Druidism savage nature motif, Gnomes shouldn't just be another technological genius race, Undead shouldn't just be more undead, etc.
In principle I can agree. Blizz obviously doesn’t mind taking the core theme of a race and hyper focusing on it, but I hope they can refrain from such. Visuals must change, but I hope they can change more. Altered or expanded class options are probably the best practical differentiation. Going through:

- Undead: giving them Paladins or Druids would be adequate. Aside from my “burning dead” idea, I’d love to see dead/decayed looking animal forms. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the Dark Forest motifs that Hearthstone has explored. I’d accept undead Elves only if they had undead Druids and had sewn on animal parts.
- Gnomes: I’ll admit that mechagnomes would be visually problematic. And that in the end they are to Gnomes what Light-forged are to Draenei. Leper Gnomes at least come across as less..... cheerful, plus they have Horde ties, but I can’t see any reason wgy they’d have any new class access. Jungle Gnomes (Pygmies?)? Forest Gnomes (tricksters)?
- Goblins: Goblin fantasy has room outside tech savvy. Hordes of primitive Goblins have been a staple of fantasy for ages, from Tolkien to D&D. A pre-kejamite group might be interesting.
- Worgen: I’m honestly not even sure how I’d change the Worgen form. It’s easy enough to change the original race to Elf or even orc, or even remove it and instead give them a wolf shaped travel form. But I don’t know how I’d change the actual Worgen appearance. Switching from Druidism to Shamanism might be enough of a class:culture shift. And monks. Definitely monks.

I’ve got nothing on Pandaren.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:15 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Implying that vulpera aren't the combined worgen and goblin allied race. A worgen pelt stretched over the frame of a goblin!

(Actually, I would not mind any of those four races, Grim. Though mechagnomes would look odd wearing most armour sets, so maybe those are a no-no.)
Doesn't really matter much when they're not going to be a neutral allied race. But yeah, they could probably just as well be the Goblin allied race and something Worgen-styled but not really associated with Worgen will be their allied race. I have doubts Blizzard is going to get that crazy with the idea since they've kept it to just offshoots for the moment rather than completely new races.
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  #971  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:32 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Though mechagnomes would look odd wearing most armour sets, so maybe those are a no-no.
Legacy armor could solve that problem if it was done right.
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  #972  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:38 PM
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Doesn't really matter much when they're not going to be a neutral allied race. But yeah, they could probably just as well be the Goblin allied race and something Worgen-styled but not really associated with Worgen will be their allied race. I have doubts Blizzard is going to get that crazy with the idea since they've kept it to just offshoots for the moment rather than completely new races.
I think a "fat" version of the worgen model could be perfect for a playable furbolg race. Worgen standing stance and jumping animation feel just right for them.
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  #973  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I think a "fat" version of the worgen model could be perfect for a playable furbolg race. Worgen standing stance and jumping animation feel just right for them.
Were Bears perhaps?
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  #974  
Old 04-30-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Were Bears perhaps?
Nah, just Furbolgs. Permanent feral form, shamanism and such. Worgen model, if changed proportions to make them burly, wide and with strong limbs, could make a perfect furbolg.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:44 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Nah, just Furbolgs. Permanent feral form, shamanism and such. Worgen model, if changed proportions to make them burly, wide and with strong limbs, could make a perfect furbolg.
They'd fit Alliance a lot more than Sethrak would, though it seems like there's zero intrigue for Furbolg whereas there exists an "Unofficial Sethrak Thread" on the WoW forums, so I don't think Furbolg are at all likely anymore at this point.

Maybe there's good reason for that, but I would be just as likely to play a Furbolg as I would a Sethrak.
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