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  #76  
Old 06-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Originally Posted by Wulfang View Post
The longest thread in these forums is the Legion's home thread, and you can hardly say that one has stayed on track... actually, did we ever have a real purpose with that thread besides a spamfest!?
It's used for important issues of life and death that you possibly couldn't understand.
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  #77  
Old 06-18-2007, 04:22 PM
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What evidence do you have that the trolls and ogres where evil?

And I don't see what the events of the third war have to do with Warcraft IV
Because Warcraft IV would obviously take place after those events, hence they are tied together.....duh here's your sign.
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  #78  
Old 06-19-2007, 06:03 AM
Saim Saim is offline

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Touchee (sp?)...

Anyway, it looks like it’ll be difficult to make a WCIV since the races have become too distinct to be lumped together (Horde/Alliance, etc.), but not distinct enough to be seperate races (Draeni, Orc, Tauren Farseer, etc.). It might be possible t o lump them into True Horde/Eastern Alliance/Night Elf/Forsaken (+BE), but then they might end up having too many units (except for NE and maybe UD+BE) if each race is represented as  much as they should. Plus, Humans, BE, Draeni and  Trolls are pretty versatile, and it would be diff icult to properly represent them by lumping them i n with other races.
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  #79  
Old 06-19-2007, 06:45 AM
Wulfang Wulfang is offline

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Originally Posted by Saim View Post
Touchee (sp?)...

Anyway, it looks like it’ll be difficult to make a WCIV since the races have become too distinct to be lumped together (Horde/Alliance, etc.), but not distinct enough to be seperate races (Draeni, Orc, Tauren Farseer, etc.). It might be possible t o lump them into True Horde/Eastern Alliance/Night Elf/Forsaken (+BE), but then they might end up having too many units (except for NE and maybe UD+BE) if each race is represented as  much as they should. Plus, Humans, BE, Draeni and  Trolls are pretty versatile, and it would be diff icult to properly represent them by lumping them i n with other races.
What the heck is THAT!
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  #80  
Old 06-19-2007, 07:23 AM
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I don't think that would be an issue. They'd just do what they did in Warcraft 3. I'll use the Humans as an example. The Dwarves are their ranged units, humans are mainly melee, spellcasters are the elves. Then in the campaigns they allow the races to have more units, such as the elven swordsmen. Even then, we had a lack of variety when it came to some models. No male archers, etc.
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  #81  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:10 PM
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I'm going to second Wulfang. Is that supposed to make it easier to read? Because it doesn't. It just makes me afraid that the fabric of reality is coming apart around me.
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  #82  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:43 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Originally Posted by Flamestrider View Post
I'm going to second Wulfang. Is that supposed to make it easier to read? Because it doesn't. It just makes me afraid that the fabric of reality is coming apart around me.
That's just how I feel.
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  #83  
Old 06-19-2007, 12:49 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Originally Posted by Flamestrider View Post
I'm going to second Wulfang. Is that supposed to make it easier to read? Because it doesn't. It just makes me afraid that the fabric of reality is coming apart around me.
Oh come on ju s t b e c a u s e s o m e t h i n g c a u s e s s o m e o n e s p o s t s t o b e c o m e a l l w o n k y , m e a n s t h a t r e a l i t y i s c o l l a p s i n g?
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  #84  
Old 06-19-2007, 02:00 PM
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You are entering a zone, a zone where normal things don't happen....very often. Welcome to.....the Twilight Zone.

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  #85  
Old 06-19-2007, 11:33 PM
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I had a few ideas for WC4, one of my favorites is that the release of WC4 coincides with a WoW expansion, and things unfold along the same storyline in both games. Each dungeon in the expansion would corrospond to big happenings in WC4. At the end of say, the Horde campaign, they kill, let's say Deathwing, you have a huge instance that also leads up to deathwing's death. Of course, I don't know how you could then get alliance players into it, but it's a start.


I ALSO advocate the burning legion as a playable race for WC4 with a focus on mechanical units. Remove the tothrezim part, have all constructs made by mo'arg. Also, make sure to include the felreaver as an ultimate unit.


To differentiate undead units within the horde, and the actual scourge, the few undead in the horde will focus more on biological warfare (potions, plagues et al).
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  #86  
Old 06-19-2007, 11:59 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I ALSO advocate the burning legion as a playable race for WC4 with a focus on mechanical units. Remove the tothrezim part, have all constructs made by mo'arg. Also, make sure to include the felreaver as an ultimate unit.

"Yet as Kil'Jaeden's victory drew near, he found his forces stalled, for the Legion's peons had been slain by the Alliance and it had no more lumber. As his gold reserves ran dry his barracks stopped producing troops, and the might of the Burning Legion was thus thwarted as their economy collapsed..."

The Legion's a plot device, plain and simple. Notice how they never bothered to build strongholds or bases during the War of the Ancients or the events of WC3? They're supposed to be so vast and powerful that if the time comes that ranks of felguard are swarming from troop "factories" within Legion Forge Camps on Azeroth itself, the fight's pretty much over and they've all but won. They're only viable as even a non-player race because they're bottlenecked by their need for a stable portal to invade. As a playable race they'd have to either be overpowered or reduced to a pathetic shadow of what they are for gameplay reasons.

Last edited by ARM3481; 06-20-2007 at 12:01 AM..
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  #87  
Old 06-20-2007, 01:54 AM
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What if Kil'Jaeden dies, the Legion fragments and becomes weaker, and the Legion campaign is based on reuniting the demons (maybe summoning Sargeras as well, but that would make more sense for an expansion because if they summon Sargeras then they would be over-powerfull).

I also think that Forsaken and Blood Elves should be seperated from the Horde, since they are neutral to it (they are like their own faction that are 'allied' with the Horde, similar to the Revantusks or Stonemauls).

Basically: Horde, Alliance, Forsaken (inc. BE, possibly under different name), (maybe NE). Maybe then another playable faction if NE are part of the Alliance... Illidari? Legion? Old Gods? Silithid? All of them seem to be more of campaign enemies/creeps than actual races... maybe a new leader of the Illidari has emerged? But the Illidari is already broken up (Naga serve Old Gods, Sunfury serve Legion, Broken even helped kill Illidan), so that wouldn't work.

Another thing: while units are often unique to different races (Orc Grunt and Tauren Brave vary), heroes can sometimes be race-wide (Tauren and Orc Farseers), so they should have more than one model (maybe even a model for both ***es). It would be interesting to see races that probably wouldn't get much representation otherwise (Ogre, High Elf) to also have their own alternative models.

My hypothetical unit list:
Horde
Units
Peon (Orc)
Grunt (Orc)
Headhunter (Troll)
Brave (Tauren) - Tier 3 melee unit, ala Wc3 Knight
Demolisher (N/A)
Raider (Orc)
Jungle Bat Rider (Troll)
Kodo (N/A or Tauren) - Either simply a Kodo, or with a Tauren mounted on top.
War Drummer (Orc) - The orcish kodo rider, but without the kodo, and with one or two extra spells.
Witch Doctor (Troll)
Shaman (Orc)
Dream Walker (Tauren) - Called Spirit Walker in Wc3, + some renamed abilities
Pulverizer (Tauren)- Called Tauren in Wc3
Unit-producing Buldings
Great Hall - Peon
Barracks - Grunt, Headhunter, Brave, Demolisher
Beastiary - Raider, Kodo, Jungle Bat Rider,
Spirit Lodge - Shaman, Witch Doctor, War Drummer, Dream Walker
Warrior Totem - Pulverizer
Heroes
Assasin (Orc) - Think Garona.
Beastmaster (Orc, Tauren, Mok'nathal) - The once-neutral Half-Ogre hero. Trolls aren't in because, while they are great hunters, they are more the ranged type (IMO).
Berserker (Orc, Troll, Tauren, Ogre) - A mix of the Blademaster and Troll Berserker
Farseer (Orc, Troll, Tauren)
Exile (Orc, Troll, Ogre) - An Affliction Warlock

Forsaken
Units
Peasant Mage (Blood Elf) - Can only build and repair, builds like an Acolyte.
Zombie (Undead) - Similar to ghouls, can't build but can get resources. Are less powerful than ghouls, but more powerful than Fel Peons.
Deathguard (Undead)
Archer (Blood Elf)
Blood Knight (Blood Elf)
Pyromaniac (Blood Elf) - Fire Mage
Forgotten Shadow Cultist (Undead) - Shadow Priest
Banshee (Undead)
Abomination (N/A) - Does siege damage this time.
Apothecary (Undead) - A bat riding alchemist Undead, with the ability to affect enemies with the New Plague (though not as effective as in WoW, for balance) when upgraded. Only attacks ground units.
Vampire Bat - Only attacks air units, and deadly at it.
Buildings
Town Hall - Peasant Mage, Zombie
Barracks - Deathguard, Archer, Blood Knight
Arcane Sanctum - Pyromaniac, Banshee, Forgotten Shadow Cultist, Magister
Apothecarium - Abomination, Apothecary
Bat Roost - Vampire Bat
Heroes
Dark Ranger (UD)
Master Apothecary - Can summon a giant abomination as Ultimate... beyond that I dunno.
Lich/Grand Magister (UD/BE) - 1 Arcane spell, 1 Frost spell, 1 Fire spell
Ranger - Different to the dark ranger, which is more of a spellcaster, this ranger can vary between melee and ranged and has some arcane abilities.

So those are my ideas... except for Alliance, but I'm trierd of tinkin now im jetllag and wiil proobabbly sttart missspleing tinghs.

RE my old post: The computer I wrote that on is effed up
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  #88  
Old 06-20-2007, 11:21 PM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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Yeah I like your ideas. Forsaken/Blood Elves would obviously don't have heavy hitting units but would focus more on stealth, traps, poisons and spellcasting. They are a guerilla force.

About the Burning Legion, it could be that Kazaak could rally some Sunfury Blood Elves and Kael'thas and some demons to get into the Dark Portal to destroy himself the Frozen Throne, that could be his mission. Or to be able to gain powerful artifacts to ressurect Sargeras. Since he can't get any reinforcements (all big portals to the Neither are shut) he has to build the small portals and some mo'arg laboratories to be able to construct weapons and gain new troops from the Neither. But these portals are weak and only one unit can be summoned through it each 30 sec ( for the Felguard for exemple, that way it's build like the other units of the other races.)
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  #89  
Old 06-21-2007, 01:57 AM
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Yeah, that was kinda the line I was going down when I was thinking. I think they would have more 'affliction type' spellcasters (like Banshees) rather than more offensive and supporting. They would hae some of that, but not as much as other races.

Horde would obviously be best at strong melee offence. I was thinking in terms of tanking ability, the Far Seer could replace the Blademaster (the Assasin would keep the Blademaster's harrasing ability though).

Alliance would have the best supporting spellcasters (Druid, Moon Priestess, Paladin, etc.) and average offence.

I like the BL idea... maybe we will finally be able to play as them? It does sound plausible.

EDIT: Something that came to me is that maybe instead of a Jungle Bat Rider, the Vampire Bat Rider could be a Forsaken unit/Gurubashi creep/campaign-only unit. Because otherwise we have like 4 different Beastiary units (though that could work as well). It would also be a bit wierd to have two playable races use the same animal (albeit a bit different).

Last edited by Saim; 06-21-2007 at 04:50 AM..
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  #90  
Old 06-21-2007, 11:18 AM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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I don't want the Night Elves to be in the alliance tho. These 2 races are too distinct to be under the same banner. They can be strong allies in the campaign though.

Also, I hope the Scourge will be back, even if they won't have access to the Dreadlord. I think the Lich and the crypt lord will remain heroes (if there are still heroes) but i'm guessing the DK will become a normal unit, seeing how many dk were trained in Naxxramas. Same thing with the Paladin for the humans
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  #91  
Old 06-21-2007, 09:53 PM
Saim Saim is offline

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I don't think there should be 5 races though. Blizzard would become a hypocrite after saying with Starcraft II "We don't add races just for the sake of it" which is kinda why they stuck with 3 in SC II, and why they will stick with 3-4 in WC IV. Thus, I don't think the Scourge should be a race.

The thing is, Night Elves are Friendly to the Alliance. Once they get a Neutral race, then I think that should be on their own. Even though even while trying hard, the Alliance has too many units with NE, there will be more races added, so either the Horde or the Forsaken will be expanded, and either the Alliance or a new race will be expanded. Blood elves and Forsaken are very unique from each other as well, they don't have a similar culture at all but they get along well because A) They where both attacked by the Scourge and B) The UD are taking advantage of the BE (the UD in Tranquillien seem polite compared to the Undercity/Sepulcher/Tarren Mill/Deathknell/Brill UD). Another thing that you seem to forget is that most of the NE's allies have either left them (Chimaera), or decided to not actively help them fight the Horde (Keeper of the Grove), so they wouldn't have as many units as last time. Keeper of the Grove would be a Neutral hero, whereas Dryads, Mountain Giants, Faire Dragons, etc. should be a creep group, you know, ones that hang around together.
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  #92  
Old 08-10-2007, 12:18 AM
Zarnks Zarnks is offline

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One thing people should remember is that the Horde has a lot of races in it.
Heres a list of the regular Horde races.

Orcs
Tauren
Darkspear trolls
Forsaken
Blood elves.

Here are Horde races people don't often think of.
Stonemaul ogres
Many goblins feel more at home with the Horde and granted them exclusive priveleges to their zepplins. They are commonly found in Horde cities like Orgimmar.
Revantusk forest trolls.
Half orcs,mentioned in the rpg as ussally being found in the Horde.
The once thought lost Mok'nathal or as some people call them half ogres.
Tuskarr befriended by the Horde in Northrend because of their similar shamanistic culture and beliefs.
Tanuka a new relative of tauren in Northrend.
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  #93  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:30 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnks View Post
One thing people should remember is that the Horde has a lot of races in it.
Heres a list of the regular Horde races.

Orcs
Tauren
Darkspear trolls
Forsaken
Blood elves.

Here are Horde races people don't often think of.
Stonemaul ogres
Many goblins feel more at home with the Horde and granted them exclusive priveleges to their zepplins. They are commonly found in Horde cities like Orgimmar.
Revantusk forest trolls.
Half orcs,mentioned in the rpg as ussally being found in the Horde.
The once thought lost Mok'nathal or as some people call them half ogres.
Tuskarr befriended by the Horde in Northrend because of their similar shamanistic culture and beliefs.
Tanuka a new relative of tauren in Northrend.
There is ONE Village of Ogres in the horde, ONE village of trolls, and a handfull of horde only goblins. They're not populous nor influential enough to get their own units. Plus, from what we're hearing, the Taunka are enemies to both races, no where does it say the Taunka have allied with the horde. Stop shooting your mouth off.
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  #94  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:35 AM
Zarnks Zarnks is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
There is ONE Village of Ogres in the horde, ONE village of trolls, and a handfull of horde only goblins. They're not populous nor influential enough to get their own units. Plus, from what we're hearing, the Taunka are enemies to both races, no where does it say the Taunka have allied with the horde. Stop shooting your mouth off.
Theres ONE tribe of jungle trolls in The Horde. See where I'm going. The tuskarr and Taunaka have been said by Metzen to be allied with the Horde(or part of).
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  #95  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:46 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Zarnks View Post
Theres ONE tribe of jungle trolls in The Horde. See where I'm going. The tuskarr and Taunaka have been said by Metzen to be allied with the Horde(or part of).
Only the tuskarr are allied with the horde, seeing how the taunka treat nature, I'd believe shamans in the horde would hate them.

Plus, there's a difference between tribe and village. There is one VILLAGE of ogres, not a TRIBE of Ogres.
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  #96  
Old 08-10-2007, 03:49 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarnks View Post
One thing people should remember is that the Horde has a lot of races in it.
Heres a list of the regular Horde races.

Orcs
Tauren
Darkspear trolls
Forsaken
Blood elves.

Here are Horde races people don't often think of.
Stonemaul ogres
Many goblins feel more at home with the Horde and granted them exclusive priveleges to their zepplins. They are commonly found in Horde cities like Orgimmar.
Revantusk forest trolls.
Half orcs,mentioned in the rpg as ussally being found in the Horde.
The once thought lost Mok'nathal or as some people call them half ogres.
Tuskarr befriended by the Horde in Northrend because of their similar shamanistic culture and beliefs.
Tanuka a new relative of tauren in Northrend.
Forsaken, Blood Elves, Turkarr, whatever those others are and Revantusk are not MEMBERS of the Horde, but allies.
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  #97  
Old 08-10-2007, 09:29 AM
Deathwing Deathwing is offline

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The chimeras arent still with the Night Elves? I'm sure they are they were the strongest units in the original WC3.
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  #98  
Old 08-10-2007, 12:00 PM
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Forsaken, Blood Elves, Turkarr, whatever those others are and Revantusk are not MEMBERS of the Horde, but allies.
Not true of the Forsaken and Blood elves. They are full-fledged members of the Horde.
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  #99  
Old 08-11-2007, 06:24 PM
Saim Saim is offline

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Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
The chimeras arent still with the Night Elves? I'm sure they are they were the strongest units in the original WC3.
Apparently they've GONE INSANE!

Quote:
Tuskarr befriended by the Horde in Northrend because of their similar shamanistic culture and beliefs.
The previous posts where made before we knew this.
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  #100  
Old 08-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Zarnks Zarnks is offline

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Originally Posted by Kerrah View Post
Forsaken, Blood Elves, Turkarr, whatever those others are and Revantusk are not MEMBERS of the Horde, but allies.
Your right about the revantusk and possibly the tuskarr. But the Stonemaul tribe of ogres,forsaken,blood elves are full members of the Horde.

Last edited by Zarnks; 08-11-2007 at 10:36 PM..
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