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  #1251  
Old 06-01-2013, 02:06 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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What you said is true.

Nine years after its introduction, la´citÚ was explicitly stated in the second article of the then Turkish constitution on February 5, 1937. The current Constitution of 1982 neither recognizes an official religion nor promotes any. This includes Islam, to which at least nominally more than 99% of its citizens subscribe.

What confuses me most is that all of this violence stemmed from a group of people who occupied a park in Istanbul because they didn't want one of the few last green spaces in the city to be demolished. It wasn't Occupy Wall Street or anything. This was basically the police and the military responding radically towards an environmental protest the likes of Greenpeace would have done.
We're talking about a state that puts down Kurdish groups that want autonomy like it's a full blown war.

Of fucking course the state of Turkey would act this way - what do they have to lose? US and Western Europe give them a blind eye to everything they do.

They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."
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  #1252  
Old 06-01-2013, 03:31 PM
Chef Chef is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas View Post
We're talking about a state that puts down Kurdish groups that want autonomy like it's a full blown war.

Of fucking course the state of Turkey would act this way - what do they have to lose? US and Western Europe give them a blind eye to everything they do.

They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."
We're talking about nation-states here, pal. Most countries in the world aren't exactly saints when it comes to geopolitics and protecting their national interests.

I could go on talking about the US actively supporting dictatorships in the Cold War or the atrocities committed by European nations during colonisation, but no, it'll be too easy.
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  #1253  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:23 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I have American friends in Turkey and there is a possibility that I will be sent there in the next year or so. I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.
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  #1254  
Old 06-01-2013, 05:29 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.
Not a chance. A student is now blind because a cop sprayed him in the face. The spray melted his contact lenses.
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  #1255  
Old 06-01-2013, 07:04 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
I have American friends in Turkey and there is a possibility that I will be sent there in the next year or so. I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.
I doubt it will escalate too far; the Turkish state is repressive but stable. That said, I don't imagine they'll be very humane to the protestors. You shouldn't have anything to worry about, however.

I actually have an American friend who lives in Istanbul as well, though Facebook updates indicate that he's doing just fine.
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  #1256  
Old 06-02-2013, 02:18 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas View Post
They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."
It's more like "can we call it genocide if they were targeted for political, not strictly ethnic, reasons?"

The modern governments really don't like admitting genocides past historical regimes in their country did, do they?
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  #1257  
Old 06-03-2013, 07:46 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
It's more like "can we call it genocide if they were targeted for political, not strictly ethnic, reasons?"

The modern governments really don't like admitting genocides past historical regimes in their country did, do they?
That'd, ironically, could be used to defend the Nazis if to use Godwin's Law.

Because they would specifically go against partisans, increase the destruction of the occupational forces as a means of "anti-insurgent" campaign.

They did this, especially, to any jews they found in the east during those 'campaigns'.

But, of course not. Yet the Senate panders on whether or not (US Senate by the by) the Turks did it.

Even now the Turks are being pretty repressive about protests. And yet there is no world reaction of shock and awe that Syria and Libya get, yet Bahrain and Turkey don't get it. All the while Turkey has an Islamist party ("Justice and Devemoment") in power, and making sure the secular elements are repressed.

Man. Triple Standards.
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  #1258  
Old 06-03-2013, 08:06 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Because even though the protests in Turkey are being repressed, nobody's being executed. The US doesn't really need to get involved.
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  #1259  
Old 06-03-2013, 08:25 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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And yet we get involved in Syria an Libya.

With forces that used chlorine gas, possibly used Sarin gas, executed African migrants and killed any black-person for the sole reason of being black (using the pretense that they're mercenaries?), has been dedicated t making women lose their rights in Libya, and can't even control the fucking militas.

Hardly an affair I'd like the US to be involved in anyways. If we were involved in Bahrain, our tanks and Saudi tanks would be rolling over the protestors.
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  #1260  
Old 06-04-2013, 05:36 PM
Chef Chef is offline

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For all of you who haven't a clue of what's going on in Turkey.

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  #1261  
Old 06-04-2013, 08:07 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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It obviously has it's bias and bullshit.

For what it's worth, it's decent.

But that's it. Not Great. Not too shitty.
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  #1262  
Old 06-05-2013, 02:08 AM
Chef Chef is offline

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By now you should know that in this day and age it's impossible to find anything that's truly not biased; everyone has a stance and a point of view, whether you like it or not.
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  #1263  
Old 06-05-2013, 05:01 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Meh I am wary of Erdogan and his Islamist "reforms," I really hope he goes out of power over this.

The last thing my people need is to deal with Turks, again.
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  #1264  
Old 06-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Meh I am wary of Erdogan and his Islamist "reforms," I really hope he goes out of power over this.

The last thing my people need is to deal with Turks, again.
Why would your people have to deal with Turks? Do you seriously believe he'd start reconquering the Ottoman Empire?
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  #1265  
Old 06-05-2013, 02:24 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Chef View Post
By now you should know that in this day and age it's impossible to find anything that's truly not biased; everyone has a stance and a point of view, whether you like it or not.
Is that why we make a super military and make sure our preferences reign supreme?
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  #1266  
Old 06-05-2013, 04:37 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Why would your people have to deal with Turks? Do you seriously believe he'd start reconquering the Ottoman Empire?
Call me cynical but after all the shit we've been through nothing would surprise me, and history has taught me that if there is even a remote possibility of something happening we'd best start preparing for it, if you know what I mean.
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  #1267  
Old 06-06-2013, 03:09 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Call me cynical but after all the shit we've been through nothing would surprise me, and history has taught me that if there is even a remote possibility of something happening we'd best start preparing for it, if you know what I mean.
I think today we have a lot more new potential threats than a bunch empire-fappers thinking about "the good old days".

Not on the Balkans, at least.
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  #1268  
Old 06-12-2013, 02:44 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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So, the Public Television in Greece was shutted down, officialy because it was too opaque and a waste of money. Roughly 3000 people lost their jobs in one day thanks to the Tro´ka and only private channels remain, which mean the death of true journalism and full power to the lobbies.

Once again, E.U prove that it isn't a democratic organization but an oligarchic one were money rule everything.
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  #1269  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:46 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Because even though the protests in Turkey are being repressed, nobody's being executed. The US doesn't really need to get involved.
Ah, this syntax. Like a summer breeze.
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Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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  #1270  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:04 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Ah, this syntax. Like a summer breeze.
If the US got involved every time people got pissed at their government, rightfully or not, we wouldn't have time to run our own.
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  #1271  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:17 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
If the US got involved every time people got pissed at their government, rightfully or not, we wouldn't have time to run our own.
It's true. You are so wise. Tell me more.
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Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #1272  
Old 06-12-2013, 06:05 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Ukraine is finally getting rid of conscription, it seems! The first law regarding the military commissariats has passed and the Ministry of Defense have officially stated that autumn of 2013 will be the last conscription (and in 2014 the last conscripts will serve their duty), after which some reform regarding contracted military will pass.
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  #1273  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:35 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korath View Post
So, the Public Television in Greece was shutted down, officialy because it was too opaque and a waste of money. Roughly 3000 people lost their jobs in one day thanks to the Tro´ka and only private channels remain, which mean the death of true journalism and full power to the lobbies.

Once again, E.U prove that it isn't a democratic organization but an oligarchic one were money rule everything.
I heard the shutdown was temporary. And I heard that channel was extremely wasteful. I'm also not sure if the Troika is directly responsible for its temporary shutdown.
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  #1274  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:56 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Meh, I don't really mind public television being shut down. Usually, they're not any less objective than anyone else and they often (unfairly) compete with commercial channels since they can buy the best tv series etc with tax money.
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  #1275  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:09 AM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
Meh, I don't really mind public television being shut down. Usually, they're not any less objective than anyone else and they often (unfairly) compete with commercial channels since they can buy the best tv series etc with tax money.
PBS and the BBC are ranked amongst the best journalistic institutions in the world partly because they don't have to sell themselves out to sponsors.
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