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Old 02-04-2016, 01:04 PM
Morvant Morvant is offline

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Default The Carnivorous Mount Conundrum

Hello there, I promised the asking of stupid pointless questions, so here comes one of them.

I have been pondering for some times on the topic of the wolf rider, often seen among the orcs & goblins of various fantasy settings, and the logistical problem they pose.

In warcraft that's not just a problem for our orcish friends, it's also one for the night elf sentinels and their nightsabres.

The problem is that carnivores eat meat. Now, I'm no specialist, but I am pretty sure that the bigger the beasty the more meat it needs. And a carnivore that is strong and big enough to carry something human sized is probably at least as big as our earthly tiger, if not polar bear.

In the wild, in optimal condition such a massive carnivore has a pretty big territory, and a generous population of flesh bags to eat.

After a few very unscientific internet searches, it seems that, in the tiger-polar bear range, around 30 to 50 kg of meats need to be consumed per week. That's around a cow every 2 to 3 months, maybe ? For one of them.

So the question is, when you get even a few of those in the same place, not to mention entire regiments, how the hell do you manage to feed them ?
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:11 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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My mounts have a healthy diet of the six major food groups: Human, Draenei, Gnome, Worgen, Night Elf, and Dwarf, and sometimes I treat them to a Pandaren delicacy.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:28 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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A dog (or any canine, for that matter) will eat damned near anything.

The coyotes in my neck of the woods routinely dine on the assorted grains grown nearby, as evidenced by the scat I find when I'm out jogging.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:43 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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That's why orcs have boar farms.

(Afaik, the Kor'kron, in The Barrens, just hunt whatever the land has to offer, to feed their wolves. I suppose that that's Blizzard's answer to your questions.)
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:45 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
A dog (or any canine, for that matter) will eat damned near anything.

The coyotes in my neck of the woods routinely dine on the assorted grains grown nearby, as evidenced by the scat I find when I'm out jogging.
Same for my dog. She's especially partial to anything I've been seen eating.

The fantasy answer says this: For Night Elves, they only have to ask a deer or stag to yield itself to their needs. For Orcs, it could be much the same, Golden's Lord of the Clans mentions as much for the Alterac Rams. Consider also Hellscream's chief reasons for invading Ashenvale, and the constant allusions made to orcish pollution of an ecology...

That said, nevermind wolves: Look at the shape and size of WarCraft's Orcs. Humans generally eat, what, about 2,000 calories? How much you think goes into maintaining the Orcish Horde? Or a single Tauren tribe? I mean, yes, there's boar farms, but I think those only go so far.

This is why I like Thrall's Horde so much. Their problem isn't one of High-Fantasy-Save-the-World, but of mere survival.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:02 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Hagrid View Post
Same for my dog. She's especially partial to anything I've been seen eating.

The fantasy answer says this: For Night Elves, they only have to ask a deer or stag to yield itself to their needs. For Orcs, it could be much the same, Golden's Lord of the Clans mentions as much for the Alterac Rams. Consider also Hellscream's chief reasons for invading Ashenvale, and the constant allusions made to orcish pollution of an ecology...

That said, nevermind wolves: Look at the shape and size of WarCraft's Orcs. Humans generally eat, what, about 2,000 calories? How much you think goes into maintaining the Orcish Horde? Or a single Tauren tribe? I mean, yes, there's boar farms, but I think those only go so far.

This is why I like Thrall's Horde so much. Their problem isn't one of High-Fantasy-Save-the-World, but of mere survival.
I always figured that the Horde's higher caloric requirements would force them to field smaller armies of highly capable troops. Or simply relegate them to a perpetual second-place status.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:04 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Gold (War3)

Also, orcs have the pillage ability in WC3.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:24 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagrid View Post
Same for my dog. She's especially partial to anything I've been seen eating.

The fantasy answer says this: For Night Elves, they only have to ask a deer or stag to yield itself to their needs. For Orcs, it could be much the same, Golden's Lord of the Clans mentions as much for the Alterac Rams. Consider also Hellscream's chief reasons for invading Ashenvale, and the constant allusions made to orcish pollution of an ecology...

That said, nevermind wolves: Look at the shape and size of WarCraft's Orcs. Humans generally eat, what, about 2,000 calories? How much you think goes into maintaining the Orcish Horde? Or a single Tauren tribe? I mean, yes, there's boar farms, but I think those only go so far.

This is why I like Thrall's Horde so much. Their problem isn't one of High-Fantasy-Save-the-World, but of mere survival.
I don't think Night Elves are afraid of hunting meat for their pets. Neither the Tauren for that matter. They just don't over hunt.
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Old 02-04-2016, 03:39 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I don't think Night Elves are afraid of hunting meat for their pets. Neither the Tauren for that matter. They just don't over hunt.
Yeah. Even Darnassus has those wandering deer fawns. Right next to the lounging Nightsabers, haha.

I should probably try and roll a Night Elf someday...
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:24 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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IIRC canids are omnivores but cats are obligate carnivores- they lack the biological function to sustain themselves on grain.


That said, summoning food and getting sustenance from magic is a thing in the setting.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:35 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Moonwells were described in warcraft III as giving sustenance, so they might just give their kitties milk-platters of moonwell water.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:26 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Moonwells were described in warcraft III as giving sustenance, so they might just give their kitties milk-platters of moonwell water.
That's both adorable and awesome. Feeling it for this.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:28 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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You shouldn't give your cats milk, though. They haven't mutated that way!
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:32 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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You shouldn't give your cats milk, though. They haven't mutated that way!
So they say, but my cats still go to alarming lengths to procure cheese from our fridge.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:35 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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So they say, but my cats still go to alarming lengths to procure cheese from our fridge.
That's because gnomes keep mice, not cats.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:52 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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That's because gnomes keep mice, not cats.
Okay, first of all, that's an appalling stereotype and I'd expect better from you, Nazja, (or at least I would if you Goblins had any fucking sensitivity whatsoever).

Second, I'm a Spider these days, not a Gnome.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:03 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Okay, first of all, that's an appalling stereotype and I'd expect better from you, Nazja, (or at least I would if you Goblins had any fucking sensitivity whatsoever).

Second, I'm a Spider these days, not a Gnome.
Why not a spider-gnome or gnome-spider?

On topic, that's a pretty nifty question. A lot of ground and flying mounts are obligate carnivores, which require pretty energy intense diets. Maybe not so hard for factions with well established agricultural systems, such as Stormwind, which has to feed its griffons, but trickier with races such as the Orcs, who're still relative newcomers t the planet, and Trolls, who've been kicked from place to place for a long time, and who both work closely with giant carnivorous creatures.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:14 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Over in the 'warcraft fan works' section, we had a discussion a while back about the likely size of Azeroth, position of the continents, etc. One thing that seemed likely to both Marthen and me is that the gravity of Azeroth is just a tad lower than on earth, which explained several aspects of the setting, but most notably there was so much megafauna, even in energy-low environments.


That, or the intrinsic connection to the spirit of beasts empowers the animals of Azeroth, making them partial life elementals. You never know with fantasy.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:14 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Why not a spider-gnome or gnome-spider?

On topic, that's a pretty nifty question. A lot of ground and flying mounts are obligate carnivores, which require pretty energy intense diets. Maybe not so hard for factions with well established agricultural systems, such as Stormwind, which has to feed its griffons, but trickier with races such as the Orcs, who're still relative newcomers t the planet, and Trolls, who've been kicked from place to place for a long time, and who both work closely with giant carnivorous creatures.
Mind the location, too. Durotar isn't exactly swelling with sustainable farmland....
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:18 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Mind the location, too. Durotar isn't exactly swelling with sustainable farmland....
Which does explain why they'd be so keen on expanding into Ashenvale.

Can canids survive indefinitely without meat? Would they suffer any health problems subsisting on grains? I'm guessing they would, but I honestly don't know.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:43 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Don't some races intentionally underfeed their mounts to keep them angry?
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:46 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Don't some races intentionally underfeed their mounts to keep them angry?
Doesn't seem very likely for the people of the warcraft universe. Half the races got some sort of mystical nature connection, while the other half of the races ride herbivores.

Old Horde orcs seem like the types to do something like that though.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:59 PM
Bullroarer Bullroarer is offline

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I want everyone here to pause and think how much dragons must consume. The energy it must take for something of that size to fly.

My guess is that all animals are like superheroes. They have superhuman stamina. They can go without food longer than animals in the real world.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:59 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Don't some races intentionally underfeed their mounts to keep them angry?
That doesn't seem like something useful.

I mean, best case scenario it means your mount stops listening to you for a few minutes on the battlefield to snack on some dude you killed.
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:50 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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I'm sure they can hunt if they want to, unless they're particularly lazy.

My major question is how the spider mounts drink their prey. Do they build excessively huge webs that get tangled in the hair of their trainers?

Anansi, we need help!

Nobody will understand the reference.
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