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  #5176  
Old 04-30-2017, 02:42 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Thanks for the answers!

Did Palpatine have a throne room? Did he ever go out to the people? Was everyone afraid of him as Vader seemed to be? Did anyone knows of the name "Darth Sidious"? What did the people call him besides just "emperor"?

Did anyone know they were Sith? I mean, many of the people would have been alive back in the Republic, so they would have known of the Jedi/Sith thing, no? Had anyone else heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

Last edited by Ethenil; 04-30-2017 at 02:45 PM..
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  #5177  
Old 04-30-2017, 03:13 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Thanks for the answers!

Did Palpatine have a throne room? Did he ever go out to the people?
It's very vague. He has several. One on the bottom floor and another one for his more private meetings in one of the spires of the Jedi Temple. I think it's the old council chamber redecorated but the art was very vague in the comic.

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Was everyone afraid of him as Vader seemed to be?
Yup, they were.

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Did anyone knows of the name "Darth Sidious"? What did the people call him besides just "emperor"?
Nope, everyone knew him by Sheev Palpatine.

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Did anyone know they were Sith? I mean, many of the people would have been alive back in the Republic, so they would have known of the Jedi/Sith thing, no? Had anyone else heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
People found out about the Sith after the battle of Endor. How, I have no idea. But most believe Vader was THE Sith and Palps was more of an adept. The higher up Imperials know the actual truth. There are some non-force user cults rising up who worship and make a martyr out of Vader. No one knows of Plagueis.
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  #5178  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:27 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Palpatine's Sith status, like Anakin's identity, is sort of "hidden in plain sight" in the Imperial times, with the government never confirming the rumors, no specifically denying them. Most people across the gigantic galaxy hardly cared about such personal details of their overlords, but it's interesting how Palps tried to parade Vader as THE Lord of the Sith.
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  #5179  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:47 PM
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According to Lords of the Sith, Palpatine never showed his force power publicly and always let Vader to do the job.
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  #5180  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:47 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Easier to blame him for anything if the need ever arises? Especially if Sidious was somehow counting on a new apprentice coming at some point. Though it could just be a way to make people think that Vader's behind some of the bad things that have happened under Sidious. Kind of like how the night elves thought Azshara was the best thing since the Well of Eternity up until she clearly wasn't, and instead blamed Xavius/the highborne for the demons and such.
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  #5181  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:51 PM
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Easier to blame him for anything if the need ever arises? Especially if Sidious was somehow counting on a new apprentice coming at some point. Though it could just be a way to make people think that Vader's behind some of the bad things that have happened under Sidious. Kind of like how the night elves thought Azshara was the best thing since the Well of Eternity up until she clearly wasn't, and instead blamed Xavius/the highborne for the demons and such.
Sidious gave very cruel order to his imperials. And quite a few imperial officers are even worse than Vader, AKA Tarkin.
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  #5182  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:06 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Did Sidious just plan on having a new apprentice over and over? For what purpose? What did he even plan on doing after murdering all the Jedi anyway? What would have happened had he corrupted Luke and replaced Vader?
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  #5183  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:22 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Did Sidious just plan on having a new apprentice over and over? For what purpose? What did he even plan on doing after murdering all the Jedi anyway? What would have happened had he corrupted Luke and replaced Vader?
Just like Dooku, Vader was a tool. A tool to enforce his will all the while Sidious spent his time trying to achieve the goal I mentioned above. He'd have done the same with Luke. If one isn't strong enough to handle the business of the Empire then he'd just get another tool. Sidious never cared for anyone except himself. He had a god complex. So egotistic he even put in place a self destruct chain reaction in case he died because if he can't have the Empire then no one will, unless someone strong would rise from the ashes of it's destruction. Cue the First Order.
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  #5184  
Old 05-01-2017, 10:53 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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unless someone strong would rise from the ashes of it's destruction. Cue the First Order.
Ah yes, the clowns who somehow managed to 9-11 the Republic core worlds and then proceeded to get their asses handed to them in each armed skirkish and/or duel against the heroes.

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  #5185  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:34 PM
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Just like Dooku, Vader was a tool. A tool to enforce his will all the while Sidious spent his time trying to achieve the goal I mentioned above. He'd have done the same with Luke. If one isn't strong enough to handle the business of the Empire then he'd just get another tool. Sidious never cared for anyone except himself. He had a god complex. So egotistic he even put in place a self destruct chain reaction in case he died because if he can't have the Empire then no one will, unless someone strong would rise from the ashes of it's destruction. Cue the First Order.
Sidious did want Vader to surpass him, it was the whole point of Rule of Two, same for Luke. He tried to get Luke because Vader was not able to reach his potential and tried to ally with Luke to overthrow him.
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  #5186  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:23 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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So Luke was then supposed to overthrow Sidious, nice. And then what? What I'm saying is that I don't exactly get what their endgame is. Rule everything? Kill everything? Reach immortality?

What is the "order" that the "First Order" refers to? Is it the self-destruct thing (I've read about it in the wiki)?

By the way, BaronGrackle has a point. How do you explain with an in-universe perspective how the Resistance managed to beat the First Order and destroy Starkiller Base?
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  #5187  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:58 AM
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By the way, BaronGrackle has a point. How do you explain with an in-universe perspective how the Resistance managed to beat the First Order and destroy Starkiller Base?
How does one even explain the existence of the Resistance at all? The New Republic won. There's no reason for a "Resistance." It's nothing more than a bunch of citizens of the galaxy's dominant power LARPing as the Rebel Alliance, as if somehow it's an act of rebellion for the citizenry of the recognized government to fight back against what amounts to an extremely well-funded terrorist cell.

The New Republic were the victors. The Empire was defeated. The Resistance is comprised of Republic citizens, from worlds that are part of that same victorious New Republic. There's no sane reason for them to be dressing up in the same sort of ramshackle uniforms with the same duct-taped ragtag fleets of ships and pretending they're the underdogs when their side is the side that won the war and ended up in charge.

You can't retell A New Hope with the good guys in charge. It doesn't work. But they tried nonetheless, and it made as little sense as such a thing inevitably had to make.
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  #5188  
Old 05-02-2017, 04:35 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Sidious did want Vader to surpass him, it was the whole point of Rule of Two, same for Luke. He tried to get Luke because Vader was not able to reach his potential and tried to ally with Luke to overthrow him.
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So Luke was then supposed to overthrow Sidious, nice. And then what? What I'm saying is that I don't exactly get what their endgame is. Rule everything? Kill everything? Reach immortality?
His ultimate goal is a direct violation of the Rule. If he was surpassed then so be it, but it wasn't something he actively wanted and that's why he was 10 steps ahead of everybody.

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What is the "order" that the "First Order" refers to? Is it the self-destruct thing (I've read about it in the wiki)?
The Imperial leader, Rae Sloane, who leads the armies in the unknown regions declares their first order shall be to rebuild the Empire stronger than before.

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By the way, BaronGrackle has a point. How do you explain with an in-universe perspective how the Resistance managed to beat the First Order and destroy Starkiller Base?
Sure they destroyed SK but the First Order is still numerous, even more so than several New Republic planets have been destroyed.

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How does one even explain the existence of the Resistance at all? The New Republic won. There's no reason for a "Resistance." It's nothing more than a bunch of citizens of the galaxy's dominant power LARPing as the Rebel Alliance, as if somehow it's an act of rebellion for the citizenry of the recognized government to fight back against what amounts to an extremely well-funded terrorist cell.

The New Republic were the victors. The Empire was defeated. The Resistance is comprised of Republic citizens, from worlds that are part of that same victorious New Republic. There's no sane reason for them to be dressing up in the same sort of ramshackle uniforms with the same duct-taped ragtag fleets of ships and pretending they're the underdogs when their side is the side that won the war and ended up in charge.

You can't retell A New Hope with the good guys in charge. It doesn't work. But they tried nonetheless, and it made as little sense as such a thing inevitably had to make.
Beyond bad writing for TFA the story group has tried to rationalize it this way. After her political career tanked hard Leia founded the resistance to serve as a vigilante group against both the First Order and the new very corrupt New Republic. They don't attack Republic forces on sight but they are wary of them in case another Empire situation happens. So yeah, they're more of a terrorist group than before.

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 05-02-2017 at 04:40 AM..
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  #5189  
Old 05-02-2017, 05:03 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
So Luke was then supposed to overthrow Sidious, nice. And then what? What I'm saying is that I don't exactly get what their endgame is. Rule everything? Kill everything? Reach immortality?

What is the "order" that the "First Order" refers to? Is it the self-destruct thing (I've read about it in the wiki)?

By the way, BaronGrackle has a point. How do you explain with an in-universe perspective how the Resistance managed to beat the First Order and destroy Starkiller Base?
Not just Starkiller base. The two forces met at Takodana - neutral ground - and fought until the First Order took too many causualties and chose to retreat (because Kylo had Rey).

It comes off like the Resistance is the dominant power, giving chase and trying to catch a rogue terroristic First Order. I don't know if that was the intention or not.

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Beyond bad writing for TFA the story group has tried to rationalize it this way. After her political career tanked hard Leia founded the resistance to serve as a vigilante group against both the First Order and the new very corrupt New Republic. They don't attack Republic forces on sight but they are wary of them in case another Empire situation happens. So yeah, they're more of a terrorist group than before.
So the Resistance is a state-level version of Batman . . .

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 05-02-2017 at 05:16 AM..
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  #5190  
Old 05-02-2017, 05:42 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Not just Starkiller base. The two forces met at Takodana - neutral ground - and fought until the First Order had to retreat.
That's not particularly worse than the incompetence the Empire had shown in the very first movie. The Star Wars movies were never exactly a quality stuff with well written and competent antagonists, the only major difference is that the first trilogy had them at least charismatic enough that you'd forget they are acting like a bunch of idiots.
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  #5191  
Old 05-02-2017, 05:47 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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The exhaust port never bothered me, even as a kid I realized the Empire was so arrogant they didn't think a bunch of X wings would fly in the trenches and somehow blow up the whole thing. That was one of my gripes with RO. It tried to fix something that wasn't necessary.

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It comes off like the Resistance is the dominant power, giving chase and trying to catch a rogue terroristic First Order. I don't know if that was the intention or not.
It can be summarized as JJ fucked it up by making a full remake without thinking of the consequences.

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 05-02-2017 at 05:49 AM..
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  #5192  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:15 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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As much as I dislike TFA, I think I figured out the in-universe reasoning for "the Resistance" pretty easily. A plot point was that the New Republic and remnants of the Empire were now at peace, but wanted to continue covert war, so a terrorist group supplied but not 'officially' recognized by the New Republic to fight the First Order planets before 'official' war started made sense.

Out of universe reasons, of course, is that JJ wanted to retell a Rebels vs Empire story and, most importantly, aesthetic.

What WILL be stupid is continuing with the Resistance as the main force fighting the FO after the Order officially attacked and destroyed major NewRep planets. They should now be fighting at full force instead of throwing Resistance at them.
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  #5193  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:20 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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That's not particularly worse than the incompetence the Empire had shown in the very first movie. The Star Wars movies were never exactly a quality stuff with well written and competent antagonists, the only major difference is that the first trilogy had them at least charismatic enough that you'd forget they are acting like a bunch of idiots.
I'm not talking about competence; I'm talking about power spectrum thematics.

In the original trilogy, the Rebels were always running from the Empire. The very beginning has them running from their first "victory", and that sets the standard. The only times they aren't the ones making a tactical retreat are when the two Death Stars are destroyed. (And in the case of the first one, EU sources consistently tell us they had to hightail out of Yavin soon after the film ended.)

When the First Order is the one running at Takodana, and the Batman heroes are the ones leisurely debriefing on the planet, we know roles have reversed. The First Order comes off as a very dangerous terrorist group, one that has to be hunted down and exterminated.

And that's actually pretty cool. But did they intend it that way? And I feel like the heroes could've still been Republic forces for the sake of this narrative.

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  #5194  
Old 05-02-2017, 09:23 AM
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It can be summarized as JJ fucked it up by making a full remake without thinking of the consequences.
This.

Episode 7 was a disgrace in the big picture. There's no excusing it in any way. Mary Sue characters, no character development, a dumb superweapon (would have been easier to just fire at the sun and supernova it, instead of that dumb splitting beam of whatever the fuck it was), pointless resistance when they should just have been the new republic army or something, etc. I just don't care enough to list all the shit.

In a few years, you'll be praising Episode 1 and Jar Jar Binks, because at least, they were being retarded on purpose, for fun's sake.

God damn it.
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  #5195  
Old 05-02-2017, 01:25 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Sure they destroyed SK but the First Order is still numerous, even more so than several New Republic planets have been destroyed.
Is it? The First Order never came across as particularly powerful to me barring it's superweapon.
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That's not particularly worse than the incompetence the Empire had shown in the very first movie.
At least when they had Stormtroopers vs Rebel Troopers the Stormtroopers performed well. It was only against the protagonists that their aim dramatically dropped.
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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard
What WILL be stupid is continuing with the Resistance as the main force fighting the FO after the Order officially attacked and destroyed major NewRep planets. They should now be fighting at full force instead of throwing Resistance at them.
While you can justify the Resistance the movie definitely explained the political set up badly.

I kinda of assumed that the reason the First Order got to nuke the Republic was to cripple them so now the First Order will be relatively uncontested or at least able to bully others into following their lead. I got the impression that the Republic wasn't going to be much of a force anymore. I hope I'm wrong though.
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  #5196  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:37 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Is it? The First Order never came across as particularly powerful to me barring it's superweapon.
The entirety of the Galactic Empire that wasn't taken over by the New Republic, 5 years after Endor, went into the Unknown Regions from where they emerged as the First Order.
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  #5197  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:50 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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The entirety of the Galactic Empire that wasn't taken over by the New Republic, 5 years after Endor, went into the Unknown Regions from where they emerged as the First Order.
I guess the books set that up better, but the movie's opening crawl had weak writing.

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Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts…
It sounds like the First Order is a ragtag group that only came into being AFTER Luke Skywalker disappeared... which is implied to be recently. So that's, what, a forty year gap? If the Empire was Nazi Germany, the First Order feels like 1980s Neonazis popping up from nowhere. And their objective is to do what? Conquer the galaxy? No, assassinate Luke. Fairly minimalist.

Plus, look at that relationship between the Republic and the Resistance. Vague enough for us?

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  #5198  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:59 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Oh yeah, the crawl. It's WRONG. Leia is NOT supported by the Republic. Maybe one or two shady senators who know her, but not the entity as a whole. For some reason JJ changed it at the last minute, and the story group responsible for keeping lore in check were baffled when they watched the movie.
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:11 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Oh yeah, the crawl. It's WRONG. Leia is NOT supported by the Republic. Maybe one or two shady senators who know her, but not the entity as a whole. For some reason JJ changed it at the last minute, and the story group responsible for keeping lore in check were baffled when they watched the movie.
So here's a real question. In the days of the old EU, movie canon ALWAYS trumped canon from anywhere else. The novels, video games, etc. were only canon insofar as they didn't contradict the films.

Is that no longer the case?
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  #5200  
Old 05-02-2017, 03:23 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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What's so interesting about Star Wars, anyway? Genuinely asking as someone who has never taken liking in the universe.
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