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  #54626  
Old 06-03-2017, 11:50 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
So how's about we all take it down a notch in here, yeah?

Cantus, you've got to realize you aren't going to change any minds.PJ, you sure as heck aren't helping keeping the tone civil.

The point of shoving the political threads into the Halls was to keep the more toxic elements, so to let people be complete asshats there.
I'm quite well aware of the resiliency of PJ's opinions. Not my first rodeo and all that...

I also have no urge to let her pretend she hasn't said the FDA and EPA should be so underbudgeted as to get to the point of functional impotence. Or the quite hilarious idea that private industry has ever policed itself without oversight. Not that she's said it directly, but that everything she describes is, again, about basically neutering regulatory agencies which (ipso facto) means that the industries aren't being reviewed.

Now, if she can't accept that's the logical outcome of what she's advocating, well that's not my fault.

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Edit: I have no idea why there's a single raptor in my post, but I'm not taking it out.
Well that's funny. I wonder if raptors have a character grouping associated with them?
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  #54627  
Old 06-03-2017, 11:51 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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So how's about we all take it down a notch in here, yeah?

Cantus, you've got to realize you aren't going to change any minds.PJ, you sure as heck aren't helping keeping the tone civil.

The point of shoving the political threads into the Halls was to keep the more toxic elements, so to let people be complete asshats there.

Edit: I have no idea why there's a single raptor in my post, but I'm not taking it out.
Simply ignoring him didn't seem to work out very well because I can't hide his posts and he keeps making personal attacks against me anyways. Cantus believes he is special and that anything he cherishes or cares about in life should be beyond reproach. No one else is afforded this kind of sensitivity and has to listen to other posters criticize things they care about. The fact that he takes criticizing against regulatory agencies because he worked at one so personal is his problem, not mine. It shouldn't give him the right to make ad hominem attacks against other posters repeatedly and consistently. He has bragged about harassing me specifically in his posts.

Reforming the US regulatory agencies is in fact a massive political issue in the US and one that determines the outcomes of elections. We should be able to talk about it without an Admin getting all pissy about it. There is nothing outrageous about wanting to streamline the government and make it more responsive to voters. We should be allowed to discuss what responsibilities the government should have and at what levels. There is nothing anarchical about that and the suggestion that there is is pure straw man.
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:03 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Man, j'voulais juste virer une brosse assoir. Vous pouviez pas me crissez patience pour une nuit?
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:04 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I guess this is the average day outside the whitehouse now
http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/06...videoChannel=1
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  #54630  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:09 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Simply ignoring him didn't seem to work out very well because I can't hide his posts and he keeps making personal attacks against me anyways. Cantus believes he is special and that anything he cherishes or cares about in life should be beyond reproach. No one else is afforded this kind of sensitivity and has to listen to other posters criticize things they care about. The fact that he takes criticizing against regulatory agencies because he worked at one so personal is his problem, not mine. It shouldn't give him the right to make ad hominem attacks against other posters repeatedly and consistently. He has bragged about harassing me specifically in his posts.

Reforming the US regulatory agencies is in fact a massive political issue in the US and one that determines the outcomes of elections. We should be able to talk about it without an Admin getting all pissy about it. There is nothing outrageous about wanting to streamline the government and make it more responsive to voters. We should be allowed to discuss what responsibilities the government should have and at what levels. There is nothing anarchical about that and the suggestion that there is is pure straw man.
I'm not pissy (nor attacking you). I'm watching Jacques Pepin videos, drinking whiskey-tea, and waiting for a movie to buffer (admittedly doesn't help loading youtube vids, but c'est la vie). I'm just commenting on your consistently voiced opinions.

Don't want to be misinterpreted? Then talk about nuances of regulation and ways to improve them instead of talking about how terrible they always are. I'd also recommend you ask about how the industries actually work before making assumptions (e.g. pharmaceuticals and the FDA, which is clearly outside your wheelhouse).
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  #54631  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:13 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
I guess this is the average day outside the whitehouse now
http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/06...videoChannel=1
What are they even protesting? There is usually some crazy protest out and about in DC. If someone has a camera they edit a pretty outrageous clip that lasts less than a minute.
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  #54632  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:22 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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  #54633  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:23 AM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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From what i observed from the last election something needs to be done about the FBI at the very least. I feel like that they were being way to biased toward Hillary.

Wasteful spending by the EPA is another. I think the federal agencies have too much power in some regards.

In addition, i feel like there should also be some slight judicial reform too. I think of all the branches of government its the most vulnerable to corruption especially at the lower levels of the federal court system.
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  #54634  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:24 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
From what i observed from the last election something needs to be done about the FBI at the very least. I feel like that they were being way to biased toward Hillary.

Wasteful spending by the EPA is another. I think the federal agencies have too much power in some regards.

In addition, i feel like there should also be some slight judicial reform too. I think of all the branches of government its the most vulnerable to corruption especially at the lower levels of the federal court system.
May want to cite specifics here.
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:26 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
From what i observed from the last election something needs to be done about the FBI at the very least. I feel like that they were being way to biased toward Hillary.
How? They were investigating a group of people who are a clear and present danger to the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of the American people. They did so secretly while blabbing on about the fake news bullshit that Clinton was accused of.

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In addition, i feel like there should also be some slight judicial reform too. I think of all the branches of government its the most vulnerable to corruption especially at the lower levels of the federal court system.
The vulnerability lies in the ease the Republicans had to block federal judge appointees during the Obama administration. Judges were never meant to be partisan, but the rightists are forcing the system to put their activist judges into seats.
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  #54636  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:29 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
From what i observed from the last election something needs to be done about the FBI at the very least. I feel like that they were being way to biased toward Hillary.
Wait up. Biased towards Hillary?

They disclosed their investigation into Clinton right when it would do the most harm without really giving her campaign any time to reasonably respond, while at the same time refusing to disclose the fact the Trump campaign was under investigation.
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  #54637  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:35 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Wasteful spending by the EPA is another. I think the federal agencies have too much power in some regards.
An IG report for the EPA described a "culture of complacency."

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...5-n-0164_0.pdf

There are also EPA employees who were only put on paid administrative leave for watching pornography at work and sexual harassment.

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/epa-mismanagement/

The kind of things I want are things like The REINS Act.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-.../house-bill/26

I think more is necessary but it is a step in the right direction. Congress should have to vote on any new rules or at least the senate(because it is smaller and terms last longer.)

A lot of state's just weakened public sector unions because they are a big culprit when it comes to government corruption. There is a reason why FDR was against them.

More industry experts working at them would help ensure effective regulatory policy because you would have people that understand the impact of those regulations and how to implement them in more optimal ways. Combine them with the scientists so they can work together.

A lot of the enforcement for the EPA comes at the state level so I am not super worried about the agency being cut. Although I think nuclear power would the best thing anyone can do about cutting back on pollution. The US has made it difficult to build nuclear power plants and for some reason Germany got rid of theirs. The US Navy should be proof that it can be safe.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
How about you just shut the fuck up Cantus instead of misrepresenting what I am saying because you take things too personally? No you don't know what a happy medium is. You dabble in your own personal delusional and lie to yourself to believe what ever you want. Your position isn't anywhere close to any reasonable middle ground. You just want to fight for the status and prestige you are used to by any means necessary. It is all your coping mechanism because you are too much of a douche bag to realize you aren't the smartest person in the room. Stop talking to me because I would have you on ignore if I could because you are an absolutely disgusting human being.
You go girl!

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  #54639  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:23 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
An IG report for the EPA described a "culture of complacency."

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...5-n-0164_0.pdf

There are also EPA employees who were only put on paid administrative leave for watching pornography at work and sexual harassment.

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/epa-mismanagement/

The kind of things I want are things like The REINS Act.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-.../house-bill/26

I think more is necessary but it is a step in the right direction. Congress should have to vote on any new rules or at least the senate(because it is smaller and terms last longer.)

A lot of state's just weakened public sector unions because they are a big culprit when it comes to government corruption. There is a reason why FDR was against them.

More industry experts working at them would help ensure effective regulatory policy because you would have people that understand the impact of those regulations and how to implement them in more optimal ways. Combine them with the scientists so they can work together.

A lot of the enforcement for the EPA comes at the state level so I am not super worried about the agency being cut. Although I think nuclear power would the best thing anyone can do about cutting back on pollution. The US has made it difficult to build nuclear power plants and for some reason Germany got rid of theirs. The US Navy should be proof that it can be safe.
And, once again, you prove my point for me in less than a day.

That's an IG report, it's basically a direct statement that the EPA needs to get its shit together, not that it needs to have restricted budgets and less power over the groups its regulating. Citing it as a reason that the EPA mission is bad is like telling me that I took too many vacation days, therefore my company is reverting back to typewriters. It makes no sense.

Now, I do agree, it needs to get its act together and public servants watching porn on government time/equipment should lead to punishment or dismissal. That's not exactly a revolutionary concept though, it's just a question of where have unions overstepped there bounds and where should they still have sway?

REINS makes zero sense because private industry already has an incredible amount of say in how things work. This is, again, where you're talking about regulation without understanding how it comes about. Regulatory Authorities first take time to draft up proposed rules (first as a framework, then in specifics) using a committee of experts (some of which may include the private industry or former members of it). Then there's a public comment period (months to years depending on issues brought up), followed by a redraft, then an easing in period, then full enforcement.

Further, REINS is subject to the sloth of the Legislative branch, which can make simple rules that make sense (e.g. pharmacy compounding) almost impossible to pass. This is directly related to not only partisanship, but industry meddling by virtue of legislators enjoying a nice SuperPAC alongside generous campaign contributions. Corey Booker's a great example here (jackass is basically a pig at the trough of Big Pharma) as are an incredible number of congressmen and women for the Chemical Industry. Want to know another huge player? Exxon.

Hmmm, maybe Mr. Cruz isn't quite so beneficent about how the Oil and Gas industry works...maybe he just like taking their money and staying in power?

Now, this doesn't mean that the EPA, FDA, USDA, or any of these other major agencies need to go unchecked. It just means that the rules they're making should not need constant oversight by a group of very biased individuals.

And finally, are you really going to claim that West Virginia's EPA is able to stop industrial contaminants from Ohio harming their citizens? Do you really think DuPont (much less the whole of the chemical industry) is going to be stopped by an underfunded, understaffed state agency? It's pretty damn clear, individual states cannot stop deleterious (if not malicious) behavior by these corporations. They need an overarching national authority to help them and they need it unburdened by excessive oversight from legislators who are in the corporations' pocket.
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  #54640  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:54 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Create new accounts, change mod account names, dont post as a moderator, or find a fucking way to enable ignore.

This is twice I'd have flagged you for harassment.

Once for repeated attacks on a single page.

Now for continuing even after A) warned by another mod, and B) she asked you to stop since she cant put you on ignore. And yes, it is unreasonable to exoect her to scroll past your text when its often laden with insults.

Ahh whatever.

Who the fuck cares anymore. Youll just rationalize whatever reason to let you continue to be a dick, and the only other one who can do something about it already said he wont, so fuck it

I'm done with this shit.
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  #54641  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:58 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Found a post on r/military I'd like to share:
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I like many other veterans of OEF try my best to keep up with the shit going on in Afghanistan. Many of you understand the compulsive need to find some sort of purpose and order for what we did over there, something to tell us that everything we did -- all the suffering we caused and endured -- meant something, changed the world in a good way. Given the Taliban gains in the past few years it has been hard to find any good news. Today, I found out the worst news yet. A friend of mine in an ODA sent me an note that my friend and old terp Atal had been murdered earlier this year.

I am not nearly high speed or badass enough to be SF, but I was a grunt deployed in 2012 and once I heard that one of my old friends who is a greenie was going to be doing some work with the ANA or something in the same general area where I had been. so i asked him to keep an eye out for Atal. Atal was a fucking hero. As a lot of you know, honest men are not exactly a dime a dozen in that part of the world, but Atal had more integrity than almost anyone I knew. He had been fighting alongside Americans since the Northern Alliance and massive battles of the early 2000's, and by the time I met him in 2012 he had already lost 5 immediate family members to the Taliban. They sent him his brother's head to try to get him to stop helping us but it didn't work.

Atal was also a legitimate genius- he spoke more languages than I can count, and not just Pashto and urdo and all that shit, he spoke English and Russian as well as classical arabic. He would beg all of us for books and learning materials to be sent to us from our families- you can imagine the bewilderment of the company family members as their soldiers asked for math and history texts to be mailed in care packages. He read dictionaries for fun and knew so much about afghan tribal history that he would entertain us by telling us historical stories about the battles and wars fought there in the past. He always talked about coming to the USA to go to school. he loved pictures of massive US cities and highways and buildings. he played chess like a computer on insane mode. i never beat him.

He was a better fighter than some of us, too. He did things that would get any US soldier a combat commendation. He sniffed out IEDs like a dog- some of his childhood friends built the bombs that we found. He never lost his nerve, he would hold the ANA together when they inevitably started panicking or getting distracted and stopped them from smoking so much hash and shit. Despite being in his 40's, he could ruck better than most of us, climb faster, and with less water and in the whole time in sandals. he worked out with any soldier willing to lift with him and for an afghan he was pretty swole. he was fascinated by a picture of brock lesnar someone taped in the FOB gym.

I am told that earlier this year Atal was found shot dead in a ditch. He had, against orders I'm sure, left to go to his family or something, when the taliban finally caught up to him. I think he must have put up a hell of a fight because I can't imagine they would be so gracious as to kill him that quickly- one gunshot to the chest. Knowing him, i bet he did some damage. he was a tough son of a bitch.

I dunno, I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense but there's so much to describe and it's hard to put in words. I feel like we don't do nearly enough to help out the Iraqis and Afghans who supported us while we were over there, if anyone deserved citizenship and a good home and education, it was him. Atal was a good man and a good human being. He was one of the only afghans that I believe was immune to corruption and truly wanted what was best for his people, not just himself. He was the sort of person that Afghanistan needed to prosper instead of fester. I will remember him for the rest of my life.
I hope our local Republican voters are proud that they did everything in their power to make sure Atal didn't make it to America.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/u...ary-visas.html

I'm sure the next country we invade will remember this. They'll know that to trust America means to die as long as Republicans are in control.
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  #54642  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:18 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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I'm not pissy (nor attacking you)
Bullshit.

I'm only observing this trainwreck of a thread, but I'm not letting you pass that off without comment.
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  #54643  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:47 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Man, j'voulais juste virer une brosse assoir. Vous pouviez pas me crissez patience pour une nuit?
You are stressing Kellick to a point he doesn't even french correctly.
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:49 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Found a post on r/military I'd like to share:


I hope our local Republican voters are proud that they did everything in their power to make sure Atal didn't make it to America.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/u...ary-visas.html

I'm sure the next country we invade will remember this. They'll know that to trust America means to die as long as Republicans are in control.


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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
Wait up. Biased towards Hillary?

They disclosed their investigation into Clinton right when it would do the most harm without really giving her campaign any time to reasonably respond, while at the same time refusing to disclose the fact the Trump campaign was under investigation.
That was because Comey's first conference acted on intelligence he knew was fake.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/politi...nce/index.html
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:43 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Found a post on r/military I'd like to share:

I hope our local Republican voters are proud that they did everything in their power to make sure Atal didn't make it to America.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/u...ary-visas.html

I'm sure the next country we invade will remember this. They'll know that to trust America means to die as long as Republicans are in control.
Did you actually read the article? There were plenty of Republicans that supported more visas for people who help the US Military. Those are the kind of people that should get immigration status instead of people who cross the border illegally and stay here undocumented. There are hundreds of millions of potential immigrants more worthy than the people that break our laws to get here. Are you really unable to differentiate between translators in a war zone versus people who illegally cross the border? I know plenty of people who used the military to get US citizenship or people in Europe who wanted US citizenship but were unwilling to overstay their visas and break the law and become citizens. Those are the people that are hurt by an immigration system that gives priority to people who break our laws and live here undocumented.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:36 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Did you actually read the article? There were plenty of Republicans that supported more visas for people who help the US Military. Those are the kind of people that should get immigration status instead of people who cross the border illegally and stay here undocumented. There are hundreds of millions of potential immigrants more worthy than the people that break our laws to get here. Are you really unable to differentiate between translators in a war zone versus people who illegally cross the border? I know plenty of people who used the military to get US citizenship or people in Europe who wanted US citizenship but were unwilling to overstay their visas and break the law and become citizens. Those are the people that are hurt by an immigration system that gives priority to people who break our laws and live here undocumented.
Your entire post is deflection. I'm not the one that voted in the majority in Congress that voted to keep 'terps out.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:43 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Your entire post is deflection. I'm not the one that voted in the majority in Congress that voted to keep 'terps out.
They didn't.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:58 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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They didn't.
Then who did?
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:04 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Then who did?
They did vote to increase those kinds of visas. You are being extremely disingenuous and emotionally manipulative right now. John McCain is a big pusher for these kind of visas. They are more important than amnesty for illegal immigrants or diversity visas.
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  #54650  
Old 06-04-2017, 04:23 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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They did vote to increase those kinds of visas. You are being extremely disingenuous and emotionally manipulative right now. John McCain is a big pusher for these kind of visas. They are more important than amnesty for illegal immigrants or diversity visas.
What about Grassley and Mike Lee? What about Jeff Sessions? Why were they only able to secure 1500 more SIVs when President Obama asked for 4000?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emmaloop/a-...Xm5#.nuooNNAXl
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...or-special-vis
If they're so important, why are there apparently so many Republicans fighting to let in as few as possible?
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