Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 11-04-2019, 06:46 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 195

Default

I remember people theorizing that Blizz was going to merge the factions. I didn't believe that, but I thought at least they would allow cross-faction grouping and guilds. But they've only reiterated that the faction divide was integral to the game and would never go away, putting the kibosh on the grouping.

What then was the point of Saurfang going on about 'Breaking the Cycle'? Did he mean the cycle of evil warchiefs? Yeah, a council is really going to change that, when in the expansion after Shadowlands, they can make the whole council evil and have them victimize the alliance, while the horde players have to be evil once again.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:51 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Aldrius's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,025

Default

I don't actually understand what purpose splitting the factions in this way serves at this point. But I guess they'd have to redo all the old content if they did that.

Quote:
I don't care about Blizzard storytelling except to mock it. That said, I'm curious how Marthen will integrate the Shadowlands materials into his Retrocraft setting. I was always fascinated by how he rewrote the Scourge into a functional nation-state with politics long before the necrolords were a glimmer in Metzen's eye.
I'm not trying to be too judgmental when I say this, but I really don't understand what ever appealed to you about any Blizzard franchise. They're pure id, artistically driven, campy video games about space bugs and necromancers and bitchy villains making cracks.

Not about... strict world building, and trying to create a realistic, working setting.
__________________
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:19 AM
BoxCrayonTales BoxCrayonTales is offline

Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
I'm not trying to be too judgmental when I say this, but I really don't understand what ever appealed to you about any Blizzard franchise. They're pure id, artistically driven, campy video games about space bugs and necromancers and bitchy villains making cracks.

Not about... strict world building, and trying to create a realistic, working setting.
I got into them when I was much younger. My tastes have matured, but Blizzard gets worse with every installment.

Last edited by BoxCrayonTales; 11-05-2019 at 11:10 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:27 PM
Niars Niars is offline

Sentinel Queen
Niars's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844

Default

Figured I'd come say hi after a long old absence and whine about the lack of NElf Paladins and hope someone asks the question in another Q&A session.

Other than that, Shadowlands is looking pretty neat. Some of the expansions I've been more hyped for have usually been letdowns in some fashion, whilst ones I'm largely indifferent about initially tend to come out quite well (MoP), so fingers crossed the pattern continues.
__________________
If you could play any race in WoW lore, what would it be? Why?
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler:
I've always been partial to orcs. Also liked the nelfs when they were fierce.

Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:32 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,513
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niars View Post
Figured I'd come say hi after a long old absence and whine about the lack of NElf Paladins and hope someone asks the question in another Q&A session.
The Lost Codex just asked about Gnome and Night Elf paladins on their interview and the answer was "someday maybe".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 11-06-2019, 11:38 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 195

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The Lost Codex just asked about Gnome and Night Elf paladins on their interview and the answer was "someday maybe".
Any other new class options they asked? Like Orc paladins or Draenei warlocks?
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:08 PM
Niars Niars is offline

Sentinel Queen
Niars's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The Lost Codex just asked about Gnome and Night Elf paladins on their interview and the answer was "someday maybe".
Can't be disappointed if you're permanently pessimistic!
__________________
If you could play any race in WoW lore, what would it be? Why?
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler:
I've always been partial to orcs. Also liked the nelfs when they were fierce.

Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 11-07-2019, 06:52 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

Eternal
Xarthat's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Second World Shithole
Posts: 3,864
BattleTag: Kalontas#2949

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Any other new class options they asked? Like Orc paladins or Draenei warlocks?
They weren't very specific in the question. They specifically mentioned gnome paladins, but they were generic overall. It was an answer to any new combinations. "It will happen when we feel it's the right time."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:16 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

Arch-Druid
Vineyard's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,162

Default

Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 11-07-2019, 06:17 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,513
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Yeah the problem is, Chronicle was pretty much sold as a definitive guide.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:16 AM
Temo Temo is offline

Arch-Druid
Temo's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto, Ca.
Posts: 1,388
BattleTag: Nyarsz#1553

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
all i got was
"you see, Blizzard NEVER makes mistakes, its just that we dont have enough IQ to understand the 5d chess they play with us"
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:17 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

The lore is absolute dog shit but the new customization is awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:39 AM
BoxCrayonTales BoxCrayonTales is offline

Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
The lore is absolute dog shit but the new customization is awesome.
I saw a lot of criticism of the new death cosmic force because it is written to create the undead rather than find them corruptions of death. This in itself is based on the idea that undeath is a perversion of natural processes, which isn't necessarily the case. Who is defining what is and isn't natural?

For example, the long dead MMO Shadowbane did the same thing only with better reasoning behind it. In that setting, the undead were created by the death/void gods or "Null" as an instinctive immune response when souls didn't cycle into the Void. The Null don't care about the state of the world as long as souls are cycling, so they ended up causing numerous "dead worlds" before the gods managed to create a solution. This was backstory stuff that served to explain why vampires, the Null's appointed generals, were PCs in the current non-apocalyptic period.

I can't really muster much hate for WoW Lore because the fantasy genre is chock full of imitators I can switch to.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:51 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,561

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
I saw a lot of criticism of the new death cosmic force because it is written to create the undead rather than find them corruptions of death. This in itself is based on the idea that undeath is a perversion of natural processes, which isn't necessarily the case. Who is defining what is and isn't natural?
I mean, contextually undeath is considered an abomination largely because the dead no longer belong in the living world, and being undead keeps them trapped there.

So the same thing wouldn't necessarily be considered unnatural within the Shadowlands (say, in the case of the Necrolords and their creations), because that is where the dead belong, and while the "force" of Death may be involved in creating undead in the living world, that doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be doing so. Thus far actual Death-related agencies who seem to care about the "rules" yet still call upon the dead (Bwonsamdi in particular) have seemed to do so with the built-in stipulation that those souls will be going right back to where they belong once the task at hand is completed.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:57 PM
BoxCrayonTales BoxCrayonTales is offline

Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I mean, contextually undeath is considered an abomination largely because the dead no longer belong in the living world, and being undead keeps them trapped there.

So the same thing wouldn't necessarily be considered unnatural within the Shadowlands (say, in the case of the Necrolords and their creations), because that is where the dead belong, and while the "force" of Death may be involved in creating undead in the living world, that doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be doing so. Thus far actual Death-related agencies who seem to care about the "rules" yet still call upon the dead (Bwonsamdi in particular) have seemed to do so with the built-in stipulation that those souls will be going right back to where they belong once the task at hand is completed.
That’s not what I hear in the complaints. The Scourge is being supplied by the Shadowlands.

In any case, undead being unnatural is arbitrary. I could easily write a fantasy setting where they are perfectly natural based on real world funerary practice and ancestor worship that occurs worldwide. For example, the innocent dead rise to defend their tombs from evil tomb raiders, a medium asks them for help and they rise to assist, or they rise to defend their living relatives from invaders, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:03 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,513
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
That’s not what I hear in the complaints. The Scourge is being supplied by the Shadowlands.
It says the scourge draws its forces and structures from the shadowlands.

But is the "forces of death" collectively acting in favor of the Scourge, or just some necrolords?

Let's not forget that the Scourge was only possible because of the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne. So whoever crafted it (and I believe under orders of the Burning Legion or the dreadlords) did so with the intention of affecting the living world with technology from the realm of the dead.

With the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne gone, also with the rampaging undead dealt with during the Shadowlands pre-expansion event, issues with undeath might become even rarer as time goes by.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 11-12-2019, 10:51 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
I saw a lot of criticism of the new death cosmic force because it is written to create the undead rather than find them corruptions of death. This in itself is based on the idea that undeath is a perversion of natural processes, which isn't necessarily the case. Who is defining what is and isn't natural?

For example, the long dead MMO Shadowbane did the same thing only with better reasoning behind it. In that setting, the undead were created by the death/void gods or "Null" as an instinctive immune response when souls didn't cycle into the Void. The Null don't care about the state of the world as long as souls are cycling, so they ended up causing numerous "dead worlds" before the gods managed to create a solution. This was backstory stuff that served to explain why vampires, the Null's appointed generals, were PCs in the current non-apocalyptic period.

I can't really muster much hate for WoW Lore because the fantasy genre is chock full of imitators I can switch to.
I can't speak for other people, but my main complaint is how Blizzard needs to constantly one up their lore. Also I don't like their take on the after life.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 11-14-2019, 01:42 PM
BoxCrayonTales BoxCrayonTales is offline

Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
I can't speak for other people, but my main complaint is how Blizzard needs to constantly one up their lore. Also I don't like their take on the after life.
How so?
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 11-16-2019, 03:30 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 195

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
How so?
I'm curious about why myself. But he's gone, probably to discord like everyone else. I hate discord, everyone's talking at once and whatever you say is usually drowned out by the others.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 11-16-2019, 06:41 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,513
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I'm curious about why myself. But he's gone, probably to discord like everyone else. I hate discord, everyone's talking at once and whatever you say is usually drowned out by the others.
Yeah, I hope the forum manages to keep some kind of public, since Discord is a nightmare to skim through organized discussion. In a forum you have threads and posts and in Discord it's just everything in one channel.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 11-17-2019, 04:16 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 195

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Yeah, I hope the forum manages to keep some kind of public, since Discord is a nightmare to skim through organized discussion. In a forum you have threads and posts and in Discord it's just everything in one channel.
I hope so too, but it feels like this forums days are numbered, I hope I'm wrong

Anyway, I was trying not to look at the new stuff in SL since I've left for greener pastures, but I couldn't help myself. I really like the look of Ardeanwald and Bastion, and the goat-like race in the former. They look like friendly satyrs, which I've always wanted to play, but since they're non-mortal beings, it's very unlikely they'll become playable

I'm really conflicted about wanting to play this expac. I skipped BfA to show my displeasure at the story(not that it made any difference) and complaining that Blizzard seems dead-set on proving Daelin and every other Horde hater right. I just wondering what they're thinking. But I just want to frolic through those zones on my orc.

Also, if we meet Marshal Twinbraid in Bastion, I'm going to be pissed. Bastard needs to be in Revendreth at the very least.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 11-17-2019, 08:39 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
How so?
The one up part or the afterlife part?

For the one up part Blizzard usually drags out a villain that's worse than the one before. There is a temporary lapse with MoP and BFA but it seems like it's back on track.

For the after life part it just doesn't feel Warcraft to me. I know that's highly subjective, but looking at it and the old concept art it just doesn't look like it's from the same setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I'm curious about why myself. But he's gone, probably to discord like everyone else. I hate discord, everyone's talking at once and whatever you say is usually drowned out by the others.
I'm still here. I just don't check this place as often since it's slowed down so much. I did join the discord but I barely check that also.

Last edited by TerrorhoofMayo; 11-17-2019 at 08:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:02 PM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

Arch-Druid
Sa'danak's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,999
BattleTag: Lyvef1re#1109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Yeah, I hope the forum manages to keep some kind of public, since Discord is a nightmare to skim through organized discussion. In a forum you have threads and posts and in Discord it's just everything in one channel.
You can have different channels in discord, maybe its worth asking if they can try to break down discussion into sections like this place is?

I ask as someone who is also kindoff falling off further and further because of the discord movement (really dislike the fb messenger style posting and how good posts get lost for eternity in the endless scrollbar) and how dead things are here now. Reluctant bu i realise people are gonna post where they want too so im trying to find a compromise.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:13 AM
BoxCrayonTales BoxCrayonTales is offline

Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 132

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
The one up part or the afterlife part?

For the one up part Blizzard usually drags out a villain that's worse than the one before. There is a temporary lapse with MoP and BFA but it seems like it's back on track.

For the after life part it just doesn't feel Warcraft to me. I know that's highly subjective, but looking at it and the old concept art it just doesn't look like it's from the same setting.
I meant the second.

I am interested in seeing the Scourge fleshed out, including their politics and logistics in the Shadowlands. Just not by Blizzard.

Hence why I’m only interested in seeing Marthen’s take on the story. It’s a multigenerational series of wars rather than a constantly shortening timeline.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:13 AM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
I meant the second.

I am interested in seeing the Scourge fleshed out, including their politics and logistics in the Shadowlands. Just not by Blizzard.

Hence why I’m only interested in seeing Marthen’s take on the story. It’s a multigenerational series of wars rather than a constantly shortening timeline.
I was never a big fan of the Scourge, but if I want to see them fleshed out I'd rather see it not in Shadowlands. It should have happened when they were still relevant, like in WC3 and WotLK. Blizzard's frequent use of "actually this is the real background of said subject" is getting real old.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.