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  #51  
Old 08-17-2013, 12:44 PM
Pixy Pixy is offline

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I've always seen the Kor'kron as some type of legion army made by strong orcs from all clans. Not necessarily mostly comprised of, say, warsong orcs.
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  #52  
Old 08-17-2013, 12:54 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Pixy View Post
I've always seen the Kor'kron as some type of legion army made by strong orcs from all clans. Not necessarily mostly comprised of, say, warsong orcs.
That's what they were under Thrall, afaik. Considering Garrosh's tendency to surround himself with yes-men, I am of the same opinion as Reignac. Sure, there are mad men in the other clans too, but the Warsong are one of the clans that are, almost, entirely loyal to Garrosh. It'd make sense if they comprised a larger portion of his enforcers.
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  #53  
Old 08-17-2013, 01:42 PM
emperium emperium is offline

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Cant Zaela simply be a hypocrite? I mean she made it quite clear she was enamored about Garrosh and she has doesnt show any sort of regret about using the Demon Chain, while at the same time would condemn any warlock or fel tainted orc if she could.
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  #54  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:55 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by emperium View Post
Cant Zaela simply be a hypocrite? I mean she made it quite clear she was enamored about Garrosh and she has doesnt show any sort of regret about using the Demon Chain, while at the same time would condemn any warlock or fel tainted orc if she could.
Then someone should call her out on it ingame.
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  #55  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:57 PM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Then someone should call her out on it ingame.
Our blades call her out. I think that's enough.

And how many characters in Warcraft get called out for being hypocrites anyway? None, as sad as it sounds.
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  #56  
Old 08-17-2013, 03:05 PM
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Zaela had barely lines to speak off. She was a minor NPC and never of any importance; killing her insane Orc-ass by elevating her to Raid Boss is probably an IMPROVEMENT.
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  #57  
Old 08-17-2013, 03:37 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Zaela had barely lines to speak off. She was a minor NPC and never of any importance; killing her insane Orc-ass by elevating her to Raid Boss is probably an IMPROVEMENT.
I'm getting sort of tired for character's being called 'insane' when they're not, it sort of trivializes the enemies like Cho'gall who actually are (not that Cho'gall is all that great a villain mind you).

Zaela had more lines and attention than most NPCs, a lack of development and intelligent writing is not something that should be brushed off like this :\
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  #58  
Old 08-17-2013, 04:19 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Dude, she's not only following Garrosh into certain doom (we must be fair and overlook that since we know the not-so-bad Nazgrim is doing the same) but she's also feeding Trolls to her puppydrake. With that in mind i wouldn't call this "brushing something off" as insanity. At worst i'll admit to overemphasize a negative trait mainly BECAUSE it is all we ever see from her this expansion, and let's be honest here, she was a glorified quest giver in Cata. It'd be a bit different a matter had they built her up Nazgrim-style.
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  #59  
Old 08-17-2013, 04:24 PM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
On top of that, I saw the entire Dragonmaw rebellion and Zaela's personal arc as an almost perfect microcosm for the entire Rebellion arc we're seeing play out right now, so seeing her take two completely opposite stances in the analogy fills me with dread because it shows that Blizzard doesn't really seem to care if its characters are internally consistent from story line to story line.

Zaela and the Dragonmaw appear to have been included because they needed a dragon-style boss fight rather than as any sort of logical conclusion to their respective arcs.
It brings to mind that Dev quote saying the story serves the gameplay.
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  #60  
Old 08-17-2013, 04:36 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
Dude, she's not only following Garrosh into certain doom (we must be fair and overlook that since we know the not-so-bad Nazgrim is doing the same) but she's also feeding Trolls to her puppydrake. With that in mind i wouldn't call this "brushing something off" as insanity. At worst i'll admit to overemphasize a negative trait mainly BECAUSE it is all we ever see from her this expansion, and let's be honest here, she was a glorified quest giver in Cata. It'd be a bit different a matter had they built her up Nazgrim-style.
Cruely != Insanity :\ is what I'm getting at.
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  #61  
Old 08-17-2013, 05:04 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Cruely != Insanity :\ is what I'm getting at.
I don't necessarily see a big difference between the two. I know about necessary violence. I never heard about necessary cruelty.
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  #62  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:05 PM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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I think 5.3 and 5.4 are painting Zaela in a pretty bad light. Her portrayal from Cata wasn't that bad really. She certainly hasnt gotten Nazgrim's treatment in 5.4.

On a side note, Im pretty sure the Demon Chain has pretty much nothing to do with demons. It's powers come from the fact it was once used to hold the Demon/Dragon Soul which also had pretty much nothing to do with Fel energy. Old God energy yes but not Fel energy and considering we used the Dragon Soul last expac its kind of hypocritical of us to accuse her of using something with pretty much the same. if much weaker, abilities.
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  #63  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:13 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
I think 5.3 and 5.4 are painting Zaela in a pretty bad light. Her portrayal from Cata wasn't that bad really. She certainly hasnt gotten Nazgrim's treatment in 5.4.

On a side note, Im pretty sure the Demon Chain has pretty much nothing to do with demons. It's powers come from the fact it was once used to hold the Demon/Dragon Soul which also had pretty much nothing to do with Fel energy. Old God energy yes but not Fel energy and considering we used the Dragon Soul last expac its kind of hypocritical of us to accuse her of using something with pretty much the same. if much weaker, abilities.
Well the difference is we didn't use it to enslave anyone/thing.

Then again what she enslaved was a black drake and they're damn near universally evil.
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  #64  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:32 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
Then someone should call her out on it ingame.
Why? Why does someone have to call her out?

Why can't we just observe for ourselves that she's a huge hypocrite.
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  #65  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:43 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Why? Why does someone have to call her out?

Why can't we just observe for ourselves that she's a huge hypocrite.
Because having a character be hypocritical without someone pointing it out leaves it up in the air as to whether they're actually hypocritical... or just poorly written.

Having a character accused of hypocrisy forces them to confront the accusation and the reaction adds depth and says something about everyone involved.
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  #66  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:52 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
On a side note, Im pretty sure the Demon Chain has pretty much nothing to do with demons. It's powers come from the fact it was once used to hold the Demon/Dragon Soul which also had pretty much nothing to do with Fel energy. Old God energy yes but not Fel energy and considering we used the Dragon Soul last expac its kind of hypocritical of us to accuse her of using something with pretty much the same. if much weaker, abilities.
The Demon Soul was infused with the fel energies of eredar warlocks captured by Deathwing in WotA.

The Demon Chain is said to have gained its power by absorbing some of the Demon Soul's through prolonged contact, so...

Yeah, there could easily - perhaps even likely - be demonic magic included in the residual energies empowering the Demon Chain.
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  #67  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:56 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I thought it was just the one Dreadlord he put in it?
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  #68  
Old 08-17-2013, 10:19 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
I thought it was just the one Dreadlord he put in it?
It was an eredar; he even notes his disappointment with the particular one he had, as he'd heard that the eredar were the unmatched tacticians and leaders of the Legion armies, while his prisoner seemed less an intellectual enemy and more a ranting fanatic spouting rhetoric at his captor.

Of course, that could stem from the tendency starting in Book 2 of WotA to dilute the Legion's threat and play up how much worse it will be for the Old Gods to win, so the demons in general become a lot less sinister and imposing in their portrayal.
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  #69  
Old 08-21-2013, 02:19 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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She killed my buddy Mor'ghor.

Good riddance.

Mor'ghor was right!
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