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  #26  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:30 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
I think two Warcraft characters summarized the situation themselves.
"No king rules forever." -Terenas Menethil
"Times change." Garrosh Hellscream

As time goes by, the passion simply moves to something else. The lack of interesting content in WoD helped by speeding things up, but it would have happened anyway. Nothing ever really gets you hooked forever. Other story universes always take over.

When I was younger, the Forbidden Realms and Dragonlance had me completely hooked. As time went by, I eventually lost interest first in Dragonlance (felt it was over when members of the original team started to get replaced) and the Forbidden Realms. I don't despise the setting, I still appreciate it. I just don't feel the need to discuss it or read its novels. Theses are cool settings, but I feel my involvement in them is done.

Same thing happened with Harry Potter. I really loved it, read the books/watched the movies multiple times. I was really excited when Fantastic Beasts came out. While I enjoyed the movie and I'll go watch the others, the magic as it was before wasn't there. And when I rewatched the Harry Potter movies, it wasn't there either. I appreciated it, but the involvement in the setting was gone.

And that's kinda why GRRM needs to speed things up for ASOIAF because while it may have me hooked right now, nothing tells me how long that will last. This kind of thing can pretty much vanish at any time, even though it often does when there's content droughts. Which we happen to have with that series.

So that's pretty much what happened with WoW, I feel. Seems like a lot of posters on this forum have moved on to other settings. But they still hang out around here because they still like Warcraft and don't mind talking about it if others want to. It's just that the passion phase where you argue about things, make-up your own alternative stories and generally invest yourself a lot in a setting is gone.

Well, at least, that's the case for me. Don't know about you?
Very well said, actually. As you get older, a lot of settings that once interested you gradually fade away, leaving behind only the ones that truly captured your imagination. I've also tuned out of Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Warhammer (40K and fantasy) and others.

But The Lord of the Rings, Morrowind, Planescape, and Batman: The Animated Series (among others) have never quite relinquished their hold on my imagination. And my familiarity with Middle Earth goes back to elementary school, while Planescape goes back to middle school, so some of these have been with me a long time.
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  #27  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:51 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Trickster won't play Mario Kart with me so he is part of the problem.
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  #28  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:16 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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WarCraft used to be about war and... Craft. And the occasional powerful hero with a background story. WoW is about [PLAYER NAME] and his 59 friends with maybe the occasional bit of dialogue between a couple of important people.
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  #29  
Old 06-26-2017, 02:46 AM
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I can report some preliminary news on the "General forum" suggestion. We aren't moving away from Blizzard as our core interest group, but we are (once Warlock swings by and puts his final stamp of approval) doing minor updates to help separate material. There will be a gaming sub-section (alongside a few others).

One focus, both including and beyond Blizzard, that we intend on encouraging is fanworks, fanfiction, and world building. While it's still not the primary purpose of Scrolls, it's a close second.
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  #30  
Old 06-26-2017, 03:22 AM
Torch Torch is offline

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While some of it may be my relatively narrow focus on a few aspects...

Warcraft's started to feel like a bad fanfiction in places. Sure, write the story you want and all, but Blizzard's going waaaaaaay too far with it. "A story where Thrall's basically Jesus and the best shaman ever and a better aspects than the other dragon aspects? Sure!", "A story where not only is the Edgelord right, but he was the most rightest person ever? Yes please!" "People don't like Varian? Let's make sure that EVERYONE ELSE IS USELESS SO EVERYONE KNOWS HOW IMPORTANT VARIAN IS."

If Blizzard want you to like a character, they don't go "How can we write a rounded story about them", they go "How can we make them perfect in universe". They forget very obvious and important story for other characters (Hello 7.2. Wait, was that because Illidan was bad back in TFT, or because they just completely forgot about it?) to write it in for others... No matter how little sense it makes for the other characters to be in charge (GO'EL!)

They've lost almost all sense of greyness. Yes, I hold TFT's Nelf campaign up as a pinnacle, but seriously. Who was right and wrong there, taking the whole game into account? Nowadays, Blizzard don't even consider that two opposing viewpoints could be, at the very least, valid. You're right or you're wrong. If you're right, Blizzard will put you on a pedestal. If you're wrong, you WILL be turned evil for no good reason, even if the readers think they make more sense. Any remaining greyness is forced, merely a nod to "They could be right/wrong!", before explaining why actually, there's a perfectly simple argument, even if it makes no sense externally.

WoW has turned into a bad Warcraft fanfic, and it shows.
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  #31  
Old 06-26-2017, 07:54 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
Very well said, actually. As you get older, a lot of settings that once interested you gradually fade away, leaving behind only the ones that truly captured your imagination. I've also tuned out of Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Warhammer (40K and fantasy) and others.

But The Lord of the Rings, Morrowind, Planescape, and Batman: The Animated Series (among others) have never quite relinquished their hold on my imagination. And my familiarity with Middle Earth goes back to elementary school, while Planescape goes back to middle school, so some of these have been with me a long time.
I'm in that same boat. I grew out of Star Wars loooong ago. Begun to lose interest in WoW around late MoP, though was originally optimistic about WoD and Legion. Never liked 40K but loved Fantasy, it's a shame they killed the latter off. Was never interested in Harry Potter.

But LotR still grips me. Still inspires me. Still captures my imagination, as you yourself put it. It's like an old friend you can always go back to when times get rough. LotR, Conan, and Berserk, are mostly what I draw inspiration from these days. (Aside from my DnD games, which also tend to be a very good source of inspiration.)

Also, I feel like I should say: no matter how far WoW falls, there will always be a place in my heart for Warcraft III. That is the one game, the one piece of Warcraft, that will never fade for me. Even if WoW continues to become a bad fanfiction, WC3 will always be a masterpiece. For me, WC3 cannot be tainted by what WoW does.
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  #32  
Old 06-26-2017, 10:28 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
Very well said, actually. As you get older, a lot of settings that once interested you gradually fade away, leaving behind only the ones that truly captured your imagination. I've also tuned out of Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Warhammer (40K and fantasy) and others.

But The Lord of the Rings, Morrowind, Planescape, and Batman: The Animated Series (among others) have never quite relinquished their hold on my imagination. And my familiarity with Middle Earth goes back to elementary school, while Planescape goes back to middle school, so some of these have been with me a long time.
It's more about the quality dropping off than we outgrew the franchise. D1-2, SC1 and WC3's story still looks fine today.
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  #33  
Old 06-26-2017, 10:36 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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The only universe I am really interested in right now is the Marvel Universe as far as fantasy is concerned. Maybe Star Wars too.
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  #34  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:30 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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The only universe I am really interested in right now is the Marvel Universe as far as fantasy is concerned. Maybe Star Wars too.
I always keep distance from superhero comics because they never care about consistency.
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  #35  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:09 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I like the idea of a general nerd forum. We can have TV shows, movies, marvel, table top, minecraft, other games, ect...
Admiral Lon-ami will come back and send that stupid god of Timolas' back to hell. Ludditia belongs to the seas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
I think two Warcraft characters summarized the situation themselves.
"No king rules forever." -Terenas Menethil
"Times change." Garrosh Hellscream

As time goes by, the passion simply moves to something else. The lack of interesting content in WoD helped by speeding things up, but it would have happened anyway. Nothing ever really gets you hooked forever. Other story universes always take over.

When I was younger, the Forbidden Realms and Dragonlance had me completely hooked. As time went by, I eventually lost interest first in Dragonlance (felt it was over when members of the original team started to get replaced) and the Forbidden Realms. I don't despise the setting, I still appreciate it. I just don't feel the need to discuss it or read its novels. Theses are cool settings, but I feel my involvement in them is done.

Same thing happened with Harry Potter. I really loved it, read the books/watched the movies multiple times. I was really excited when Fantastic Beasts came out. While I enjoyed the movie and I'll go watch the others, the magic as it was before wasn't there. And when I rewatched the Harry Potter movies, it wasn't there either. I appreciated it, but the involvement in the setting was gone.

And that's kinda why GRRM needs to speed things up for ASOIAF because while it may have me hooked right now, nothing tells me how long that will last. This kind of thing can pretty much vanish at any time, even though it often does when there's content droughts. Which we happen to have with that series.

So that's pretty much what happened with WoW, I feel. Seems like a lot of posters on this forum have moved on to other settings. But they still hang out around here because they still like Warcraft and don't mind talking about it if others want to. It's just that the passion phase where you argue about things, make-up your own alternative stories and generally invest yourself a lot in a setting is gone.

Well, at least, that's the case for me. Don't know about you?
I don't know, I would say it depends on the strength of the setting. If you don't take care of it properly, it just grows stale or boring.

Your description matches my own experiences well, specially Harry Potter (The movies ruined it for me), and since last year, A Song of Ice and Fire as well. Lord of the Rings, still love some parts of it, but the overall story has grown boring because there isn't any real background for everything outside what happens in the main stories. With all the invented languages and whatever, Tolkien could have bothered expanding the mythology and the cultures surrounding the present stories a bit. It's too character-centric, and you just can't wander outside that story. The same happens to the original Star Wars trilogy, and other works too. Once the story is done, the setting is useless.

However, I still love the Warhammer settings, all of them, as well as the Clone Wars era from Star Wars. They have something, I don't know, the scope? The cast variety? You really feel like they are huge universes, that make sense, with no constant plotholes and bad story choices that ruin your immersion.

Other settings, like Dungeons and Dragons, I just don't like them because the creatures and the setting feel dumb or just way too simple. Same for the original Star Wars trilogy and Disney's 2 movies so far. The landscapes are just Earth location #123, there's barely any aliens, and they are all humanoids who act like humans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
WarCraft used to be about war and... Craft. And the occasional powerful hero with a background story. WoW is about [PLAYER NAME] and his 59 friends with maybe the occasional bit of dialogue between a couple of important people.
Lot of people say WoW has bad storytelling because MMOs are bad for storytelling, but that's not true. Blizzard is bad at storytelling.

There's been countless examples by the community across the years about how to make the plot work better. Blizzard never really cared about the story, it's just an excuse for the new game-selling aesthetics, not different from toy-based cartoons at the end of the day.

MMOs can tell a story just fine. You can instance story missions if the open world gives problems. You can make players secondary soldiers, nobodies, instead of the center of the world. You shouldn't play as Arthas, you should be one of his footmen.

You still save the day, but no one knows, and no one cares. You're just a number, and only your friends really know your name.

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
I always keep distance from superhero comics because they never care about consistency.
Same here. I just find them awful, with the constant retcons and rewrites, not to speak about the prices.
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  #36  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:33 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I only pay attention to the movies!
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  #37  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:47 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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World of Darkness has captured more of my interest lately. Such a criminally underutilized setting that could be so much more than a tabletop game, but I still really like the worldbuilding and the ideas surrounding each of the monster races.
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  #38  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:49 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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I only pay attention to the movies!
MCU was better than the comics, yes.

My favorite is still Star Wars, GW's setting is also interesting. Diablo could have been awesome if D3's story was better.
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  #39  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:57 PM
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I only pay attention to the movies!
Too bad the Warcraft movie was awful.
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  #40  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:04 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Too bad the Warcraft movie was awful.
They made a lot of odd unnecessary choices that seemed easily avoidable.
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  #41  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:05 PM
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Just asking, why Diablo and SC lore weren't discussed much? Diablo's lore was quite awesome and SC1's plot is probably the best of Blizzard's games.
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  #42  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
Too bad the Warcraft movie was awful.
Wasn't awful. Wasn't great. I'd call it a 40%. The biggest issue (from what Jones said) was studio meddling and budgeting. I'd go a bit further and also mention that, as amazing as the CGI was, it still needed polishing.

In terms of acting, Orcs were amazing, Humans felt stilted.
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  #43  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:15 PM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Just asking, why Diablo and SC lore weren't discussed much? Diablo's lore was quite awesome and SC1's plot is probably the best of Blizzard's games.
Because the settings are cool but the lore is dumber than WC.
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  #44  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:30 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Because the settings are cool but the lore is dumber than WC.
SC1's story is even better than WC3. D1 and D2 got better story than WOW.

The story wasn't the main focus, but it's still quite good.
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  #45  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:37 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Wasn't awful. Wasn't great. I'd call it a 40%. The biggest issue (from what Jones said) was studio meddling and budgeting. I'd go a bit further and also mention that, as amazing as the CGI was, it still needed polishing.

In terms of acting, Orcs were amazing, Humans felt stilted.
Nah, dawg. First of all, 40% is awful. That's 20 points worse than a failing grade in school. I'm a self-admitted movie snob, so my opinion about movies is if it wasn't great, then it was a failure. They cost so much money to make and you only get one shot to stick the landing. CGI notwithstanding, the failure came from the pacing, completely forgettable characters (I would have had no idea who any of them were if I didn't already have a background for WC lore), and the painfully cringey dialogue. Too much fanservicey bullshit and not enough solid filmmaking going on there. I wanted to like it, I really did. I'm a big Duncan Jones fan.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #46  
Old 06-26-2017, 02:08 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Nah, dawg. First of all, 40% is awful. That's 20 points worse than a failing grade in school. I'm a self-admitted movie snob, so my opinion about movies is if it wasn't great, then it was a failure. They cost so much money to make and you only get one shot to stick the landing. CGI notwithstanding, the failure came from the pacing, completely forgettable characters (I would have had no idea who any of them were if I didn't already have a background for WC lore), and the painfully cringey dialogue. Too much fanservicey bullshit and not enough solid filmmaking going on there. I wanted to like it, I really did. I'm a big Duncan Jones fan.
Also a film snob, but I also grew up on Tromaville so I can appreciate shittiness for what it's worth. In terms of film grading, I don't take the school grade approach, because there's no objective facts or necessary things to understand going into a film. Either you like it, it speaks to you, and you click, or you don't and can't really enjoy it. A 40% could be so bad it's good or it could just be mediocre. A 30% is bad, a 20% is awful, and 10%> means it should never have been made. I'd call a lot of Wes Anderson's work in the 50% range (because I fucking loath his inability to avoid kitsch and deus ex machina moments).

Warcraft, as a film, isn't good, but to call it objectively bad ignores a ton of other films out there that are far worse. In the grand scheme, I can rewatch Warcraft without hating myself, as opposed to trying to rewatch something like the BFG (which actively made me want to strangle Spielberg).

But back on topic, disinterest in the current lore seems to be a question of multiple factors. Is it the direction? Are you just bored and moving on? Do you not have time to keep an interest? Etc.

If you're coming back to Scrolls, what percentage of each (and other pertinent questions) are people really dealing with? Is there something that would bring back interest? If not, and the big question I've been leading into, what interests/sections should be expanded in SoL that you believe will have significant traction in the future?
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  #47  
Old 06-26-2017, 02:25 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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I want a movie based on D1.
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2017, 03:57 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Warcraft, as a film, isn't good, but to call it objectively bad ignores a ton of other films out there that are far worse.
I'm not talking about tons of other films, just one, and judging it on it's own merits. It's bad. You just said it "isn't good". How is that not the literal definition of "objectively bad"?
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  #49  
Old 06-26-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
I'm not talking about tons of other films, just one, and judging it on it's own merits. It's bad. You just said it "isn't good". How is that not the literal definition of "objectively bad"?
40-60% is my go to for "mediocre" (the lower to upper bounds respectively). 40% is hedging into bad, but not deeply so. Reverse it and 39% is bad hedging into mediocre.
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  #50  
Old 06-26-2017, 05:09 PM
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It just dawned upon me that Middle earth and Middle east are 2 different things lol
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