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  #14076  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:15 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Now, let's be honest here and call it what it is; sub-races (IF they actually happen) aren't really sub-races, they're actually more customization options, nothing more. Tauren with Highmountain horns and tattooes, for example.
  #14077  
Old 10-24-2017, 01:38 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
fel voidborn SAVAGE naga. beat that
Fel voidborn savage death chaos dire naga.

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
Now, let's be honest here and call it what it is; sub-races (IF they actually happen) aren't really sub-races, they're actually more customization options, nothing more. Tauren with Highmountain horns and tattooes, for example.
That's the only way I want sub-races to happen actually. More customization options like Wildhammer tattoos etc rather than trying to make one sub-race for each race. It would end up in shoehorning in sub-races for Pandaren and choosing between different subraces for trolls and dwarves.
  #14078  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:06 AM
Gnivil Gnivil is offline

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With all the supposed leaks, with that one about Davy Jones a few months ago and that riddle one, I'm convinced this will be basically a wanking off to the WC2 Alliance, sort of like WoD was supposed to be to the WC2 Horde.
  #14079  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:22 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
That's the only way I want sub-races to happen actually. More customization options like Wildhammer tattoos etc rather than trying to make one sub-race for each race. It would end up in shoehorning in sub-races for Pandaren and choosing between different subraces for trolls and dwarves.
That would be an incredibly missed opportunity, in my opinion. As I said on discord, these sub-races should have their own story and identity, realized by a short starting zone (covering their 108-110), reputation, a set of items, voices, leader, etc. Although I don't think the Pandaren should get a sub-race.

---------------------

To give more context, here's a quote of what we were talking about on discord with MisterCrow and others;

Quote:
My personal bet is that each parent race has not one, but two sub-races. One would be using the same model as the parent race, one would be using a different model, often a model from the opposing faction.

Of course, assuming anything like sub-races or hero races are a thing.

So going by your list and my own ideas, I could imagine something like this (completely hypothetically);

Human - Alliance Undead (I would not call them Forsaken, that’s a political faction – probably led by Faol or Thoras, or perhaps both, undead Lordaeron and Stromgarde loyalists)
- Kul Tiras humans (human model, imbued with the power of storm and sea by Jaina, thunderforged)

Dwarf - Wildhammers (heavily requested customization option, more so than Dark Irons on the Alliance – dwarf model, but different hairstyles/skins/tattoos/beards/details, also a bit larger/taller)
- Ice trolls (I believe that is a better fit than the forest trolls, whom I ever can’t see allying with a faction that has humans and high elves in it)/goblins

Gnome – Mechagnomes
- Ice trolls/goblins

Night Elf - Alliance High Elf (High Elf model, led by Alleria, void form for Shadowmeld)
- Feral Night Elves/Highborne (I’d go with the first, but depends)

Draenei - Alliance Lightforged (more aggressive/less virtuous draenei)
- Alliance half-orcs (orc model, different skins/details/etc – the kin of Garona)

Worgen – Gilnean wolf-men (human model, but furry skins, wolverine like beards and hairstyles, claws – created by fusing the two different forms of the Worgen in a ritual)
- Grimtotem tauren (dark, aggressive tauren who resent the Horde and find themselves allied to the Alliance out of necessity, forming a strange alliance with the Gilnean Worgen due to their similar instincts)(upraveno)

Orc - Blackrocks (I do not think that Mag’har offer enough unique identity to work as a sub-race, although I would still add them by adding several brown skins to the parent race)
- Dark Irons (a group opposed to Moira and her commitment to the Alliance, allied with the Blackrock orcs – seeded in Chronicle Vol. 2)

Troll - Forest trolls ( the Revantusks, enough said)
- Partially healed Broken (a group of Broken who get their curse partially reversed thanks to Darkspear voodoo - their resentment towards their former brethren who shunned them and gratitude towards the trolls make them join the Horde – a heavily altered Draenei model)

Tauren - Horde Highmountain Tauren (MOOSE HORNS LOL)
- Primal Worgen ( a group of night elven Worgen who get aided and soothed by the druids of Thunder Bluff)

Forsaken - Horde Humans (human-looking undead, led by Nathanos?)
- Another group of undead (one idea I got would be Lichborn, the same model as the parent race, but more skeletal skins and features, blue icy eyes, etc).

Blood Elf - Horde Nightborne (Night elf model, led by Silgryn)
- Either felblood elves or sun blood elves (same model as the parent race)

Goblin – leper or undead gnomes
- Dire goblins (same model as the parent race, but different skins and features, a bit larger)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnivil View Post
With all the supposed leaks, with that one about Davy Jones a few months ago and that riddle one, I'm convinced this will be basically a wanking off to the WC2 Alliance, sort of like WoD was supposed to be to the WC2 Horde.
I am starting to get more and more convinced that the next expansion will feature the High Seas (Crestfall, Kul Tiras, Zul'Dare, Balor, perhaps Zandalar) and a revamped Lordaeron torn apart by a war between the several largest geopolitical factions left on Azeroth, something "a wanking off to the WC2 Alliance" would certainly be part of. The Windrunner reunion, different groups of undead, Kul Tiras, the Trollbanes, Turalyon, void High Elves, Blizzard seemingly willing to give the opposing faction's models to the other faction, Greymane-Sylvanas conflict stepping up, Varimathras' quotes, Khadgar's datamined quotes, Nathanos' strange new model and its backstory, and so on.
  #14080  
Old 10-24-2017, 06:35 AM
Gnivil Gnivil is offline

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Eh, I'm not so certain about the stuff with each faction having two sub-races, one from each faction, I just think they'll give a race sub-races that make sense for them, but I would be interested in how far they'll go down this hole. E.g. will they give Pandaren Hozen/Jinyu subraces (Horde/Alliance exclusive) as has been speculated? We know from the Nightbourne that they're not sticking religiously to the idea that a sub-race must be a descendant of the original race, but again, how far will they go?
  #14081  
Old 10-24-2017, 07:46 AM
Montoya Montoya is offline

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I want the Highmountain Eagle mount, so if this is a way to get it, I'm down
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  #14082  
Old 10-24-2017, 07:52 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
Now, let's be honest here and call it what it is; sub-races (IF they actually happen) aren't really sub-races, they're actually more customization options, nothing more. Tauren with Highmountain horns and tattooes, for example.
I don't know what else you ever thought subraces would be? If they weren't just more customization for existing races, then they'd be races all their own.
  #14083  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:05 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Lumber (War3) Insert appropriate quantity of scepticism.

You know, void elves may provide us with high elf druids once more!

Suck on that, blood elves!
  #14084  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:43 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Wouldn't a leather-vest-wearing Naga be the Naga-equivalent of Leatherface?

Also: i don't really think they'll stay at 4 sub races if they do it, but MAN the choices so far are disappointing. Where's the Taunka? Where's the non-piranha'd Undead? Where's Night Elf Worgen? Where's Horde streight-backed everything? Half a dozen Troll variants? Vrykul-humans?
If they keep halfassing it like this i'd rather they just don't bother and maybe people get a few additional art assets out of it.
  #14085  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:17 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Asking them to make unique models for 13 races is silly which is what the taunka would be as they'd need to completely redo that model and make a female model from scratch. Worgen night elves that are friendly to either faction do not exist and as far as we know are all dead/back in the Dream. I don't know what non piranha undead are. Straight back orcs wouldn't ve a subrace. Most the troll variations go into completely new model territory along with vrykul.

This isn't half assing this is using common sense with expectations.
  #14086  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:20 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I don't know about "completely redo" for the Taunka. They just need new heads and horns; which may mean new helmets, too.
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  #14087  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:28 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I don't know about "completely redo" for the Taunka. They just need new heads and horns; which may mean new helmets, too.
Heads take time to animate and the bodies would need updated as well. There's also no female model. Updating all the models likely did no favors for WoDs development and here you have people expecting at least 26 new/updated models.

Last edited by Leviathon; 10-24-2017 at 10:32 AM..
  #14088  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:35 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Asking them to make unique models for 13 races is silly which is what the taunka would be as they'd need to completely redo that model and make a female model from scratch.
That's not entirely truth. A taunka or broken subrace would need work to make the face and adapt all the helm models, but most of the body is almost the same and the animations/texture maping for armor/shoulder armor can be recycled.

While it's very unlikely for them to do that for all races, I can totally see them doing it for a few. Besides, not all races have subraces that would require such effort.
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  #14089  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:39 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Asking them to make unique models for 13 races is silly which is what the taunka would be as they'd need to completely redo that model and make a female model from scratch. Worgen night elves that are friendly to either faction do not exist and as far as we know are all dead/back in the Dream. I don't know what non piranha undead are. Straight back orcs wouldn't ve a subrace. Most the troll variations go into completely new model territory along with vrykul.

This isn't half assing this is using common sense with expectations.
I am sorry, but half your arguments are no arguments at all, which feels sort of weird when you are speaking of common sense.

1) It does not take much imagination to form a simple story that would explain a group of primal worgen escaping the Dream and getting brought to their senses by tauren druids. Especially when the Scythe is at play in Legion.

2) Some troll variations would require new models, some would not. The key would be to choose those that would not.

3) Not sure what the undead comment is supposed to mean.

Agreed with the rest, though. Can't imagine making unique and new models for sub-races, the only safe bet is to use existing player models, just with some new things and alterations. And yes, straight standing orcs would not be a sub-race.
  #14090  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:42 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Asking them to make unique models for 13 races is silly which is what the taunka would be as they'd need to completely redo that model and make a female model from scratch. Worgen night elves that are friendly to either faction do not exist and as far as we know are all dead/back in the Dream. I don't know what non piranha undead are. Straight back orcs wouldn't ve a subrace. Most the troll variations go into completely new model territory along with vrykul.

This isn't half assing this is using common sense with expectations.
I suspect that piranha'd undead means undead with bones showing.

@Worgen in the Horde: Why not just Forsaken worgen? Those are a thing too and make far more sense than the friendly night elf worgen being on the Horde.
  #14091  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:54 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I am sorry, but half your arguments are no arguments at all, which feels sort of weird when you are speaking of common sense.

1) It does not take much imagination to form a simple story that would explain a group of primal worgen escaping the Dream and getting brought to their senses by tauren druids. Especially when the Scythe is at play in Legion.

2) Some troll variations would require new models, some would not. The key would be to choose those that would not.

3) Not sure what the undead comment is supposed to mean.

Agreed with the rest, though. Can't imagine making unique and new models for sub-races, the only safe bet is to use existing player models, just with some new things and alterations. And yes, straight standing orcs would not be a sub-race.
I won't deny they can pull a story out of their ass for some feral worgen deciding to join the Alliance and sure it'd be an easy option that'd just be a change from 1 to 2 in the files. Though I'd imagine people may prefer something more noticeable than a model difference most will never see outside RPers (given the base model already has night elvish ears).

Yes some troll variations are simple and in turn wouldn't be much outside a color change. I was obviously referring to forest trolls and the Zandalar both of which have old models with pretty unique animations from the base skeleton they took from a player race.

They may want to have subraces that'd be more of a visual change hence why they'd go with these first 4 and go from there based on feedback (and can just easily enable things like Wildhammer skins).
  #14092  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:55 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Heads take time to animate and the bodies would need updated as well. There's also no female model. Updating all the models likely did no favors for WoDs development and here you have people expecting at least 26 new/updated models.
The bodies don't need updating considering the tauren body was already updated in WoD.

I'd say making 6-12 new heads to fit on bodies that are already rigged to be playable might take about the same amount of dev time as making 4 new player models (male and female, 1 alliance, one horde) like we get in most expansions, and they may not need to make a new starting experience or unique architecture for them.
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Old 10-24-2017, 11:08 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
The bodies don't need updating considering the tauren body was already updated in WoD.

I'd say making 6-12 new heads to fit on bodies that are already rigged to be playable might take about the same amount of dev time as making 4 new player models (male and female, 1 alliance, one horde) like we get in most expansions, and they may not need to make a new starting experience or unique architecture for them.
They do use a slightly modified tauren model given the different heads so it'd be a little more than a copy paste. Nonetheless this is kinda pointless to argue. If they end up doing that cool but if not I won't lose any sleep over it.
  #14094  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:11 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Where are forsaken worgen a thing? Isn't the entire Silverpine story about how Sylvanas can't raise them?
  #14095  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:15 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Where are forsaken worgen a thing? Isn't the entire Silverpine story about how Sylvanas can't raise them?
Vanilla.

She may not be able to raise worgen, but worgen can infect Forsaken.
  #14096  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:16 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I suspect that piranha'd undead means undead with bones showing.
Ah. In that case;



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
@Worgen in the Horde: Why not just Forsaken worgen? Those are a thing too and make far more sense than the friendly night elf worgen being on the Horde.
Well, the idea specifically was to have them connected to the Tauren of Thunder Bluff. Can't see how Forsaken worgen would work in that regard. But sure, there are many ways and combinations, just presented one possible. The point was to give each race a sub-race that would use the same model plus to give the opposing faction the faction's models and vice-versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
I won't deny they can pull a story out of their ass for some feral worgen deciding to join the Alliance and sure it'd be an easy option that'd just be a change from 1 to 2 in the files. Though I'd imagine people may prefer something more noticeable than a model difference most will never see outside RPers (given the base model already has night elvish ears).

Yes some troll variations are simple and in turn wouldn't be much outside a color change. I was obviously referring to forest trolls and the Zandalar both of which have old models with pretty unique animations from the base skeleton they took from a player race.

They may want to have subraces that'd be more of a visual change hence why they'd go with these first 4 and go from there based on feedback (and can just easily enable things like Wildhammer skins).
1) Well, I imagine there would be some differences added to make them stand out. In any case, as I told Nazja, just one potential idea. Honestly, you could just have some Lo'Gosh orc mooks infecting themselves willingly with the Curse, giving the Horde orc-worgen or something.

2) The Revantusk used reskinned standard troll models originally. I have no doubt Blizzard could do that that again if they wanted to use them as a sub-race without giving them a unique model, it wouldn't even be so hard to explain.

Last edited by Marthen; 10-24-2017 at 11:19 AM..
  #14097  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:19 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Where are forsaken worgen a thing? Isn't the entire Silverpine story about how Sylvanas can't raise them?
Maybe that old Vanilla-era Forsaken NPC in Pyrewood Village who would turn into a worgen? Though whether that's still canon or not is unverified, and even if it is, it's possible that it was specifically an effect of those enchanted shackles Arugal was using on is prisoners rather than the normal, contagious worgen curse.
  #14098  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:26 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Covered bone undead I could see as a customization option like straight back orcs if that ends up being a thing. You already can force that Forsaken look by adding a line to your game settings file.
  #14099  
Old 10-24-2017, 01:14 PM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ft-8-0-details

I'm putting my money on this "leak". A few things seem off at first but make sense after consideration, or could simply be lost in translation. There is a lot in this that seems a) too smart to have been made up and b) exactly like what I would expect them to do.

It gives me the same feeling of "truthiness" that the WoD leak back in the day gave me, which also sounded outlandish in parts but exactly like what they would do.

This one makes sense in almost every aspect I can think of.
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  #14100  
Old 10-24-2017, 02:23 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ft-8-0-details

I'm putting my money on this "leak". A few things seem off at first but make sense after consideration, or could simply be lost in translation. There is a lot in this that seems a) too smart to have been made up and b) exactly like what I would expect them to do.

It gives me the same feeling of "truthiness" that the WoD leak back in the day gave me, which also sounded outlandish in parts but exactly like what they would do.

This one makes sense in almost every aspect I can think of.
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