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  #451  
Old 11-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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I'm not saying the Dominion didn't have they upper hand, which they did, but they were greatly weakened by the war, to the point where they couldn't even hold on to Hammerfell.
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  #452  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:11 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I'm not saying the Dominion didn't have they upper hand, which they did, but they were greatly weakened by the war, to the point where they couldn't even hold on to Hammerfell.
More reason to let the Stormcloaks cripple the Empire further but not enough to make them a major power as themselves so maybe they could at times silently aid both till the Dominion could strike once more and force them to surrender.
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  #453  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:31 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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You're probably right, but the Empire at this point is in shackles anyways. They already lost Morrowing, Elsewyr, and the black Marsh. They'll be a mess regardless. I mean if Hammerfell couldn't fend off the dominion when in the empire but they could after seceding, it gives other nations knowledge that they can hold it off aswell.

In related news just changed my Religion on facebook to Talos worshipper.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT TIBER SEPTIM
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  #454  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:53 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Here's a question for everyone using the Thalmor as a reason to RP their character as pro-Stormcloak [SPOILERS]: How will your character deal with the main plot related revelation that the entire thing has been receiving support from the Thalmor themselves in order to weaken the Empire?
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  #455  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:05 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Here's a question for everyone using the Thalmor as a reason to RP their character as pro-Stormcloak [SPOILERS]: How will your character deal with the main plot related revelation that the entire thing has been receiving support from the Thalmor themselves in order to weaken the Empire?
You know that discussion I was having in the other thread about the American Revolution being supported by people who didn't want to pay taxes and was pretty much a business dispute?

That doesn't diminish the ideological significance of what happened. Just because the Thalmor orchestrated it with their own goals does not remove the importance of the ideals held by those who are actually fighting.
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  #456  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:07 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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That doesn't diminish the ideological significance of what happened. Just because the Thalmor orchestrated it with their own goals does not remove the importance of the ideals held by those who are actually fighting.
One of their ideals is based on racism and prejudice though, and even if they win they'll be easy pickings for the Thalmor after being weakened via civil war.
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  #457  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:12 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
You know that discussion I was having in the other thread about the American Revolution being supported by people who didn't want to pay taxes and was pretty much a business dispute?

That doesn't diminish the ideological significance of what happened. Just because the Thalmor orchestrated it with their own goals does not remove the importance of the ideals held by those who are actually fighting.
The point I was making is that if you're joining the rebels to stick it to the Thalmor, that little bit of info kind of proves you should be doing just the opposite, does it not?
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  #458  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:16 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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One of their ideals is based on racism and prejudice though, and even if they win they'll be easy pickings for the Thalmor after being weakened via civil war.
Again, you're assuming the Thalmor can attack them. Skyrim is the furthest removed from Thalmor territory, they share no boundaries with them and in order to invade Skyrim the Thalmor would have to get through the hostile, independent nation of Hammerfell and the Imperial controlled provinces of High Rock or Cyrodil. You're also implying that the Thalmor have the ability to project power beyond Alinor now that the world knows they're an enemy force and will begin building their armies in response.

As for the racism and prejudice- while I do not necessarily agree with it, who is my character to force cosmpolitanism on them? I support independence and the right to freedom, and if the people choose to excuse other races, then that's their prerogative.
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  #459  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:25 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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At times like this I wish we could go the NV route and just stick it to both of them. But all in all, I'll support the stormcloaks, because of the idea that Skyrim should be free from Religious oppression. And you could also see this as a sign of the Thalmor getting desperate, instead of trying brute force and suffering great losses, now they're having to rely on underhanded tactics to try to get the upper hand.

And this is the last time I'll say it since I've said this in all prior posts, but the fact that Hammerfell, a small province compared to the empire, being able to repel the Thalmor doesn't sound too well for the Thalmor forces and their power.
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  #460  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:13 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Euphemialibritannia View Post
At times like this I wish we could go the NV route and just stick it to both of them. But all in all, I'll support the stormcloaks, because of the idea that Skyrim should be free from Religious oppression. And you could also see this as a sign of the Thalmor getting desperate, instead of trying brute force and suffering great losses, now they're having to rely on underhanded tactics to try to get the upper hand.

And this is the last time I'll say it since I've said this in all prior posts, but the fact that Hammerfell, a small province compared to the empire, being able to repel the Thalmor doesn't sound too well for the Thalmor forces and their power.
You have to keep the nature of Hammerfall in mind. From what we've heard, it's mostly desert with the only places that are permanently liveable on the edges of said desert. I suspect that the Thalmor encountered many of the same problems in their invasion as the Crusaders did during the First Crusade in the Arabian deserts. Specifically, the native population is not only adept at navigating the deserts (and hence know where things like oases are) but they were able to effectively use the harshness of the land to their advantage.

Any occupying Thalmor force would be completely at the mercy of their supply lines, which the Redguards would be able to easily cut off due to the harshness of the environment and the Thalmor's unfamiliarity with such an environment, combined with the fact that the Redguards apparently used guerilla hit and run tactics (I'm picturing them as being similar to horse-mounted bowmen/crossbowmen as used in the crusades.)

While the climate of Skyrim is just as harsh as Hammerfalls, the Nords have no particular speciality for hit and run style combat or the use of the harsh climate to repel an invading force. While they're extremely fierce combatants, they seem to employ the same army vs. army tactics that the Empire and Thalmor use, and which the Thalmor have proven to be very adept at. Combine this with them being weakened after a civil war and they would be completely screwed when the Thalmor invade.

The advantage of being part of the Empire is if something does happen to weaken Skyrim to the point where it can't stand on its own, it can be easily reinforced with a single word from the Emperor. If they aren't part of the Empire, they're on their own.

The Thalmor are destroying the Empire with classic divide and conquer tactics, and it's working like a charm because people like the Stormcloaks are falling for it hook line and sinker. That's the only reason that they made the cessation of Talos worship a part of the treaty; because they knew that it would severely weaken Skyrim when the headstrong Nord population has the kneejerk reaction that the Stormcloaks are currently representing.
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  #461  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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The Redguards use the same heavily armed infantry tactics as most of humanity. Their strategies are no different from that of skyrim and they were able to beat off the Thalmor with a population far smaller than that of the Nords.
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  #462  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:30 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The Redguards use the same heavily armed infantry tactics as most of humanity. Their strategies are no different from that of skyrim and they were able to beat off the Thalmor with a population far smaller than that of the Nords.
You said that the army to army tactic failed utterly though, and that the Thalmor were only driven off because of constant guerilla harassment on the occupying force.

I just find it difficult to believe that the Nords would adapt such tactics in a war against the Thalmor. They have too strong a belief in Viking Honor to resort to such tactics, unlike the Redguards who seem to have been inspired by Moors/Arabians, and who we know already have groups whose entire reason for existing is to conduct such cloak and dagger operations. (We see them in that one Whiterun quest where they're looking for an escaped Thalmor sympathizer. I like to think that they're inspired by the Arabian hashashin.)
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  #463  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:32 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I probably shouldn't have used "guerilla", the correct term is more, well, "resistance".

Read the book on the great war for yourself and make your own opinion.

www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
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  #464  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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The reason for the Thalmor's new found power within the world is due to the fact that they formed the Dominion with the Bosmer and they must have power if they forced the Empire to stop believing in Talos.

I think they have something up there sleeves with them sticking there noses in each place where power is shown (like taking a interest in the Dragons and the College).

I could see the Thalmor easily siding with the Argonians or the Khajiit if they had to and simply promise them a great future under there leadership even if they shoved it back in their faces afterwards.
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  #465  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:57 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I probably shouldn't have used "guerilla", the correct term is more, well, "resistance".

Read the book on the great war for yourself and make your own opinion.

www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
That's a really well detailed piece of history and a great read. Bethesda continues to impress.

Looking at the whole history of the war though, it's made even clearer exactly what the Thalmor's goals are. They were defeated at the Battle of the Red Ring because they faced a unified force of Imperials, Nords, Bretons, and Redguards, and it was that unity that ultimately cost them the decisive victory over the Empire that they were hoping for.

The two most controversial aspects of the White-Gold Concordat were the ceding of much of Hammerfell to the Thalmor and the outlaw of Talos Worship. These two aspects of the concordat were crafted for the specific purpose of eliminating support for the Empire from Hammerfell and Skyrim in order to ensure that the Humans can't muster a united force to challenge the Thalmor again. And it worked like a charm for Hammerfell, and it's working on the Stormcloaks in Skyrim.

It was unity that defeated the Thalmor in Cyrodiil, and so the Thalmor are now targeting the Empire's unity, and if that works, then the Thalmor will win easily. And who knows what they would do with a subjugated humanity.
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  #466  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:03 AM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

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So I just stumbled about the concept of Mantling: Act like a god, be like a god and you become a god.
Explains the new Sheogorath somewhat better.
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  #467  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:07 AM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Grahh this is all so amazing, so what is Bethesda's record with continueing with story lines? Can we expect all of this to be expanded on?

Also I am kind of disappointed that we will have to wait years before the story advances in any big significant way... Stupid Fallout

Well what do you guys think happened to The Knights of the Nine and Battlehorn Castle?
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  #468  
Old 11-18-2011, 12:11 AM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Once I realised how pathetic the Stormcloaks were, I deleted my character and made an Emperial sided one instead. A bit ironic of me to pick a Bosmer to side with the Empire. I figured that having a pet-mammoth could be useful when fighting a dragon, too bad I still don't get how the hell I'm supposed to be using Command Animal. It was also probably not a good idea to go for a warrior with a race that's very geared towards rogue, but I cba in doing it all over again.
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  #469  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:06 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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I still doubt the Thalmor have some mysterious super power that they have been holding back just for the purpose of using it when the Empire is divided instead of just using it against the Empire back during the war and ending it right there.

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I could see the Thalmor easily siding with the Argonians or the Khajiit if they had to and simply promise them a great future under there leadership even if they shoved it back in their faces afterwards.
They already have that due the moon thing causing the Khajiit to join the Thalmor as their saviors. Course a book in-game kinda hints that there are groups against them still.

Last edited by Leviathon; 11-18-2011 at 02:25 AM..
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  #470  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:31 AM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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So I need an opinion (or several). Since I don't want to really spoil anything, I'll just try and hide the text a bit.

Should I kill Parthurnax? Delphine and old-dragon-expert just told me how he did a lot of atrocities back when Alduin was first doing his thing, and how they won't help me anymore until he's dead. I did some reading and saw that if I were to kill him, Delphine starts to try and recruit new Blades, and a few other minor things but otherwise...I dunno, I feel I can't bring myself to kill him. Yeah, he did bad things, but clearly he's repented.

Decisions, decisions...I'm gonna go with my gut I think, overall (not to do it). Made a save though, in case I want to go back and do it, heh.
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  #471  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:13 AM
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don't do it. paarthunax is one cool dov, and blades are long dead. what help can they give me? i'm fucking dovahkiin, bitches, i don't need blades!
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  #472  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:17 AM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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don't do it. paarthunax is one cool dov, and blades are long dead. what help can they give me? i'm fucking dovahkiin, bitches, i don't need blades!
That was my feeling as well. I mean, if the damn Dovahkiin doesn't feel like killing a dragon, who the fuck can argue with that?
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  #473  
Old 11-18-2011, 04:12 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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I was so disappointed when I meet the girl who tells me she is from Blades. I'm SICK of Blades.

I've just finished killing a dragon for her and wanted to joing the magic guild in Winterhold. I have a question, though: will I be able to travel to the magic guild if I also join the Imperial legion? As far as I know, Winterhold is rebel territory, isn't it?

I was surprised that Skyrim, practically one of the core members of the Empire, even has separatism issues.

Also: playing a black horned Argonian named Neltharion.
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  #474  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:14 AM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

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That was my feeling as well. I mean, if the damn Dovahkiin doesn't feel like killing a dragon, who the fuck can argue with that?
Talk with him about the quest. After that I couldn't bring myself to do the deed...
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  #475  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:28 AM
Nozdormu Nozdormu is offline

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I don't think he's killable. Either that or bugged. When I attack him he gets down to like 0 hp, but doesn't die and he doesn't fight back.
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