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Old 04-10-2014, 02:40 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Default If Thrall led the war...

I am increasingly growing of the opinion that the Alliance-Horde War would have been better had Thrall been warchief during the war.

Many fans point to Cata as the primary turning point for fans' sour opinion on Thrall. This turn stems from a number of factors both in and surrounding the game. I would summarize the main points as follows:
1. People felt that Thrall made a terrible choice with Garrosh as warchief.
2. People felt that Thrall becoming the World Shaman made him feel too much like a Mary Sue character.
3. People felt that Thrall becoming World Shaman and Garrosh as Warchief was done to absolve Thrall of blame in the faction-conflict.

As such, I wonder how Blizzard could have engineered an Alliance-Horde War with Thrall at the helm as warchief.

Premise: Start with where we left off in Wrath of the Lich King but do not presume anything about the game of Cataclysm (e.g. races, Gilneas, Deathwing, the Shattering, etc.) but simply develop a compelling and mutually satisfactory Alliance/Horde experience for both Alliance and Horde players that has Thrall as warchief.

One possibility that I'm playing around with had been King Varian Wrynn deciding to start a war to retake Lordaeron from the Forsaken. Thrall then goes to defend his begruding allies, leaving Garrosh in command of the Horde armies in Kalimdor. Garrosh uses this opportunity to claim land and resources in Ashenvale to support Thrall's war effort in Lordaeron, thereby creating another war front in Kalimdor and drawing Theramore into the conflict. The war would then show Thrall how much of this war came about due to him having turned a blind eye to what was transpiring within his Horde.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:53 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I don't think Thrall has the stomach for a sustained war in Lordaeron on the side of the Forsaken, especially if he's personally there.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:00 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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I don't think Thrall has the stomach for a sustained war in Lordaeron on the side of the Forsaken, especially if he's personally there.
He would still be obligated to defend the Forsaken. Thrall would probably not put up with their shit to the extent that Garrosh did.

Another possibility though would be for Thrall to send Garrosh to aid Sylvanas in Lordaeron, partially to get rid of him. At which point, those two seek to win the war at any cost.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:02 PM
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He would still be obligated to defend the Forsaken. Thrall would probably not put up with their shit to the extent that Garrosh did.

Another possibility though would be for Thrall to send Garrosh to aid Sylvanas in Lordaeron, partially to get rid of him. At which point, those two seek to win the war at any cost.
Why send Garrosh? He has contacts in the Frostwolf Clan that know the lay of the land, along with other various Orcs who have experience in Lordaeron. Sending Garrosh seems foolish.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:02 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't understand why the Alliance couldn't just invade after WotLK. Varian Wrynn is back and attacked him in the UC. The Alliance was in shambles prior and didn't have the strength to wage war and now does. Wouldn't that be satisfying enough if the Horde just had to fight an Alliance invasion?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:03 PM
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Why send Garrosh? He has contacts in the Frostwolf Clan that know the lay of the land, along with other various Orcs who have experience in Lordaeron. Sending Garrosh seems foolish.
Which is why Thrall going over there himself would be my first choice, and it makes sense to then have Garrosh have the "good intentions" to invade Ashenvale for the war effort in Lordaeron.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:04 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Which is why Thrall going over there himself would be my first choice.
I find modern Thrall to be above leading petty faction battles, but that's just me. I'm somewhat sure he's not interested in rehashing memories in Lordaeron, either.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:09 PM
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I find modern Thrall to be above leading petty faction battles, but that's just me.
This opinion seems rooted in Cata Thrall. Thrall was not opposed to fighting the Alliance back in Frozen Throne. I don't see why Thrall would just ignore the Alliance attacking his Forsaken allies.

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I'm somewhat sure he's not interested in rehashing memories in Lordaeron, either.
Didn't stop him in Battle of Undercity.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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This opinion seems rooted in Cata Thrall. Thrall was not opposed to fighting the Alliance back in Frozen Throne. I don't see why Thrall would just ignore the Alliance attacking his Forsaken allies.
I don't think he is 'opposed to fighting the Alliance', so much as I don't see himself doing the fighting. He'd send someone there with an army, but I doubt he'd go there himself. He no longer seems like the type to get his hands dirty in petty factional squabbles.

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Didn't stop him in Battle of Undercity.
He had no choice. His own troops, and the troops of his temporary allies (the Alliance), were utterly slaughtered by a member of his own Horde during a critical battle. That's a slightly severe domestic administrative issue to deal with, unlike a foreign attack on Lordaeron soil.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:16 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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I don't think Thrall has the stomach for a sustained war in LORDAERON on the side of the Forsaken, especially if he's personally there.
sorry did you day something?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:18 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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sorry did you day something?
Just going to repost something of importance, for your reading pleasure:

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Semi-frequently. On the other hand, the lion's share of it is stuff that, had it gone unanswered, would have fizzled long before it began. I've lost count of the number of times he [Fojar] long since quit a particular discussion, yet even as things normalized references to how angry he'd made people kept popping up, until some particularly ugly invective would be posted, inspiring him to come back and reply, reigniting the whole thing all over again.

Any time a thread has truly imploded, it's boiled down to a scant handful of one person's posts, and a prolific eruption of outraged or sarcastic responses, leaving me wondering if anyone in the thread actually wanted to discuss the subject or if they were all just waiting for something to come along and derail it.

Really, I'm only playing devil's advocate here because I've never been so offended, so enraged, that I felt I had to just - keep - responding - over - and - over - page - after - page - to something he posted with which I disagreed. If he posts something with which you disagree, just explain why, without injecting references to his "Lordaeron obsession". If he posts something you find inherently trollish and non-constructive, just scroll past it and continue the the discussion as if it didn't happen.

It just makes everyone seem childish when half the forum seems to lack the self-control to either respond reasonably or to not respond at all.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:21 PM
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I don't think he is 'opposed to fighting the Alliance', so much as I don't see himself doing the fighting. He'd send someone there with an army, but I doubt he'd go there himself. He no longer seems like the type to get his hands dirty in petty factional squabbles.
So how would you engineer a Thrall-led Alliance/War and how would you see it transpiring?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:24 PM
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The sheer brilliance of Thrall's charisma would force the Alliance to surrender without so much firing a shot.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:27 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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The sheer brilliance of Thrall's charisma would force the Alliance to surrender without so much firing a shot.
Or on the contrary the righteous alliance would need to tarnish itself to merit his unquenchable wrath, and we cant have that
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:28 PM
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The sheer brilliance of Thrall's charisma would force the Alliance to surrender without so much firing a shot.
I think you got Thrall confused with Varian Wrynn there.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:31 PM
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I think you got Thrall confused with Varian Wrynn there.
Varian is a cheap Thrall knock-off.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:33 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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I think you got Thrall confused with Varian Wrynn there.
you mean the god-king whos part lion and part wolf god? and who all alliance leaders must bow to before they can speak?

All the green jesus shit, at least thralls humble in what he does, as shown end of SoO. Varians about as humble as general Zod
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:35 PM
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you mean the god-king whos part lion and part wolf god? and who all alliance leaders must bow to before they can speak?
Has Varian ever compelled someone to kill their own father?

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All the green jesus shit, at least thralls humble in what he does, as shown end of SoO. Varians about as humble as general Zod
Thrall is not humble. He's just quiet as the world naturally revolves around him.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:35 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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God Emperor.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:37 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Triple Horde, would you mind moving your Thrall whining to another thread so that this thread can stay on topic?
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:39 PM
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God Emperor.
Half of his sons betrayed and turned against him. Father of the year, the GEoM is not.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:42 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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God Emperor.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:43 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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He would still be obligated to defend the Forsaken. Thrall would probably not put up with their shit to the extent that Garrosh did.
Lots of what the Forsaken did were due to a combination of them being evil revenants incapable of feeling positive emotions combined with their dire military straits. The Forsaken being a bunch of evil assholes was the only reason that they were able to repel even the piss-weak Alliance presence that we saw in Cataclysm.

So Thrall would either have to tolerate this evil (which I don't think he would actually do if we're assuming consistent characterization), load up the northern continent with so many non-Forsaken troops that the Horde heartland in Kalimdor is left extremely vulnerable (which I also don't think he'd do for the sake of zombie realpolitik), or lose the war to the Alliance's industrial might and geographic advantage.

So is Thrall acting like a win-at-all-costs general here, a good guy, or a combination thereof? Because I don't see how he can be both and STILL successfully defend the Forsaken's holdings when you consider that even associating with the Forsaken taints his cause really horribly.
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  #24  
Old 04-10-2014, 03:44 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Triple Horde, would you mind moving your Thrall whining to another thread so that this thread can stay on topic?
Okay, I'm going to level with you; the fact that you don't know what double *expletive* is but continue using it in an attempt to mock me is amusing to no end. I feel embarassed for you that you're trying.

As for the actual topic, Thrall would have won the war, because Jania wouldn't have allowed Theramore to be used as a staging ground. Dalaran would have remained neutral. And the rest of the Horde leaders would follow him lock step just like they always did.

Garrosh didn't do anything Thrall wouldn't have done, and by sheer virtue of simply being Thrall, all of the problems Garrosh experienced would disappear.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:45 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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One possibility that I'm playing around with had been King Varian Wrynn deciding to start a war to retake Lordaeron from the Forsaken. Thrall then goes to defend his begruding allies, leaving Garrosh in command of the Horde armies in Kalimdor. Garrosh uses this opportunity to claim land and resources in Ashenvale to support Thrall's war effort in Lordaeron, thereby creating another war front in Kalimdor and drawing Theramore into the conflict. The war would then show Thrall how much of this war came about due to him having turned a blind eye to what was transpiring within his Horde.
What if while en route to Lordaeron to meet with Sylvanas, Thrall is captured in much the same fashion as he was during Lost Isles? This would kind of propel Garrosh in charge anyways and give him the goal of rescuing his Warchief.
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