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Old 11-26-2013, 08:10 PM
Odok Odok is offline

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But pls give to that T. Isle 2.0. some structure. Killing 2k Yaungols without the pacing/reward that a daily gave is boring.
Yeah, it won't just be Timeless Isle 2.0. That's just an example of content that isn't just "Kill 10 mogu every day."


Really though if you focus on the yaungol elites you can get 750+ rep just from doing the daily.

The rep doesn't make me half as mad as the rare item drop rates, which I find to be blatant artificial longevity.
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  #4577  
Old 11-26-2013, 08:22 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I just hope that's meant to be a one time nod back to those, and not the norm for how reputations work in WoD. Having to do dailies to get exalted with Golden Lotus/Shado-pan/Celestials, etc will seem like nothing then.
I think there's a lot of discussion going on about how to manage reputation in WoD. They didn't say anything about it because none of the methods that have been used before seem to be really universally loved.
  1. Blizzard hated the tabard system in Cataclysm because it was effortless and counter-intuitive.
  2. Everyone hated the huge daily bloat that happened in 5.0 and hated the Golden Lotus gating even more.
  3. Having rep groups focused on specific dungeons (a la BC) doesn't seem like a solution they like since they've never used it again. (Thought they have used it in raids.)
  4. Farming up tokens to get rep (a la Argent Dawn/Zandalar Tribe from classic) also doesn't feel like a good model because it's just repetitive. And literally farming (as was done with the farm in 5.1) is slightly better but still monotonous and long-form.

It makes you question what purpose reputation serves in the game, as it's basically just another bar to fill in order to access endgame items, and whether that's useful gear or vanity items seems to be what's being iterated on most.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the Garrison Trading Post being a tool in this, as a combination of the Sunsong Ranch work orders and weekly Battlefield:Barrens style item collection as a way to gate reputation rewards but still feel like it's got some variety to it.
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  #4578  
Old 11-26-2013, 08:27 PM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
The problem is that I don't, personally, find exploring in WoW to be fun. I love being in the world, I love walking around and taking in the surroundings... but I don't like exploring, because there are too damned many wandering monsters and I hate fighting those; they just waste time. I also hate the insurmountable waist high fences. So yes, I want flight at all possible times. And you can still explore while flying, if you stay low to the ground.
The problem is no one will. People will pick convenient over fun and then complain that its not fun. The reality is that no restrictions makes making compelling content bloody hard to make. Almost certainly people will ignore the bulk of the content and go straight for the reward.

It might sound dumb but sometimes you have to force people to go down a path so you can establish a structure to build your content around. Flying really undercuts their ability to do that.

Also wondering monsters really aren't much of an issue, at least in MoP. On the Thunder Isle and the Timeless Isle you can get around almost everywhere without any issues of getting past mobs unless your purposely going into mob dense areas. Even then you can run through them without getting dismounted unless you are unlucky or actually stop. General exploring rarely requires killing a lot of mobs.
  #4579  
Old 11-26-2013, 09:43 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
Also wondering monsters really aren't much of an issue, at least in MoP. On the Thunder Isle and the Timeless Isle you can get around almost everywhere without any issues of getting past mobs unless your purposely going into mob dense areas. Even then you can run through them without getting dismounted unless you are unlucky or actually stop. General exploring rarely requires killing a lot of mobs.
I don't have a problem with no flying, but this just isn't true. The tigers and yaungol constantly cause dismounts.
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
  #4580  
Old 11-26-2013, 09:54 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I don't have a problem with no flying, but this just isn't true. The tigers and yaungol constantly cause dismounts.
Are you on the roads?
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  #4581  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:18 PM
Edoll Edoll is offline

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Hey! I heard that there is a new expansion coming out called Warlords of Draenor! It sounds really cool. It involves Garrosh and all the heroes of the Old Horde. Also, the draenei are getting a lot of focus and exposure!

With all of the excitement leading up to Blizzcon, I figured people would actually talk about the stuff announced at Blizzcon. Not about flying for twenty pages.
  #4582  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Edoll View Post
With all of the excitement leading up to Blizzcon, I figured people would actually talk about the stuff announced at Blizzcon. Not about flying for twenty pages.
You might want to rewatch Blizzcon interviews, buddy. Also you can only say "WoD sucks" so often without actually talking about why it sucks.
  #4583  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:29 PM
Amaile Amaile is offline

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To be 100% honest here, I would be completely floored to see Draenei get much exposure beyond the very first zone and half of patch 6.1 and 6.2 (if we're lucky here). I, unfortunately, have this sinking feeling that we're going to see MoP 2.0, but hopefully the beta will manage to change my mind once we get actually there and explore (MoP managed to do exactly that, but fool me twice and...!!!).
  #4584  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:30 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Originally Posted by Edoll View Post
Hey! I heard that there is a new expansion coming out called Warlords of Draenor! It sounds really cool. It involves Garrosh and all the heroes of the Old Horde. Also, the draenei are getting a lot of focus and exposure!

With all of the excitement leading up to Blizzcon, I figured people would actually talk about the stuff announced at Blizzcon. Not about flying for twenty pages.
Apparently, the injustices of flying mounts, orc hunches, and the donkey-like intractability of certain SoLers means that we don't get to talk about pertinent topics.
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  #4585  
Old 11-26-2013, 10:40 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
Are you on the roads?
Yeah.

It's especially bad with those two yaungol who guard the bridge over the toad area, and the one yaungol patrolling that bridge.
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You know, when I put the "i hate all of you" tag in threads, I'm not trying to be funny or cute. With a handful of exceptions, I really do hate almost everybody here.

It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
  #4586  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:07 PM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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Originally Posted by Reignac View Post
I don't have a problem with no flying, but this just isn't true. The tigers and yaungol constantly cause dismounts.
The yaungol beserkers can be an issue but they are only in a small area of the isle and can be easily circumvented if you have any CC. The only class Ive had trouble getting past them with is a warrior.

As for the tigers, I cant say Ive had this problem. If you don't run right up next to them and keep moving their pounce will miss and they wont get a hit in.. unless you stop for something. I run up to the lore daily every day on several characters (45 gold for a moments time is certainly worth it) and I could count on one hand the amount of times a tiger has actually dismounted me.

Some mobs can be problematic yes but there is almost always either a way past them or some way to sideline them.
  #4587  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Amaile View Post
To be 100% honest here, I would be completely floored to see Draenei get much exposure beyond the very first zone and half of patch 6.1 and 6.2 (if we're lucky here). I, unfortunately, have this sinking feeling that we're going to see MoP 2.0, but hopefully the beta will manage to change my mind once we get actually there and explore (MoP managed to do exactly that, but fool me twice and...!!!).
It will be.

Expect, after the initial Draenei, a bunch of humans and more humans. They already said they want the Alliance to feel like they did in WC2. So it's another unification story.
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  #4588  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:10 PM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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Yeah.

It's especially bad with those two yaungol who guard the bridge over the toad area, and the one yaungol patrolling that bridge.
The two guys at the entrance use a ground AoE and melee attacks. If you go between them they usually don't get a hit in. The beserker though is a hassle. I generally CC him to get past him.

The problem with the beserkers is their charge. The rest tend to be pretty slow unless your hanging around up near the temple were the nastiest of the elites are.
  #4589  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:13 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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It will be.

Expect, after the initial Draenei, a bunch of humans and more humans. They already said they want the Alliance to feel like they did in WC2. So it's another unification story.
Quite Whinylion.
  #4590  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:18 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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If Blizzard wants the Alliance to be like WC2, does that mean that the PCs are the Turalyons, Kurdrans, Allerias, and Danaths of WoD?
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  #4591  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:20 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Quite Whinylion.
Never.

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If Blizzard wants the Alliance to be like WC2, does that mean that the PCs are the Turalyons, Kurdrans, Allerias, and Danaths of WoD?
Well, we will be getting our own garrison full of soldiers, so.
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  #4592  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:22 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
If Blizzard wants the Alliance to be like WC2, does that mean that the PCs are the Turalyons, Kurdrans, Allerias, and Danaths of WoD?
Well, MU! Khadgar is going to Draenor at least. Maybe Kurdran and Danath (if he's not stranded in Outland now) could come to for a (mostly complete) Sons of Lothar reunion?
  #4593  
Old 11-26-2013, 11:24 PM
Amaile Amaile is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Danath (if he's not stranded in Outland now)
I never even thought of this! My optimism is fading increasingly faster than before now...
  #4594  
Old 11-27-2013, 12:14 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Anyone else find it funny that Garrosh changes hordes like nose tissues?

"MUH TRUE HORDE IS DA... TRUE HORDE!"

"Fuck you guys, MUH IRON HORDE IS DA SHIT!"
  #4595  
Old 11-27-2013, 12:51 AM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
It will be.

Expect, after the initial Draenei, a bunch of humans and more humans. They already said they want the Alliance to feel like they did in WC2. So it's another unification story.
I don't know if the Draenei becoming actively participating members of the Alliance is a bad thing.
  #4596  
Old 11-27-2013, 05:04 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
"I like no flying because x"
"I don't like flying because x"


<huge discussion>


"omg rotal is such a mule jeez, did you really expect me to give him critique? instead i'll try to mock him by calling him x or y! hee-hee! that'll show him!"
I haven't seen any valid arguments FOR flying except "I like it, so Blizzard can suck it". Hence the comparison. With all due respect, since Rotal makes some nice points on other subjects. There's just no debating the flying issue to me, there's no rational argument for flying HAVING to be in the game at release. There have been numerous posts from other people illustrating the reasons why it's a good thing, and the Devs explained it well themselves too.

I'll give you that my taunt may have been influenced by reading too many similar posts by other people, and on many other boards, and less so by Rotal himself.

I still stand by my opinion that there's no real arguing against no-flying except that you don't like it. Which is legitimate, but not an argument.
  #4597  
Old 11-27-2013, 05:12 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
I haven't seen any valid arguments FOR flying except "I like it, so Blizzard can suck it". Hence the comparison. With all due respect, since Rotal makes some nice points on other subjects. There's just no debating the flying issue to me, there's no rational argument for flying HAVING to be in the game at release. There have been numerous posts from other people illustrating the reasons why it's a good thing, and the Devs explained it well themselves too.

I'll give you that my taunt may have been influenced by reading too many similar posts by other people, and on many other boards, and less so by Rotal himself.

I still stand by my opinion that there's no real arguing against no-flying except that you don't like it. Which is legitimate, but not an argument.
Noitora made a decent point that flying offers a unique form of exploration, but IMO it comes at too high a cost of invalidating other forms of exploration. Delaying flying, but not removing it, is a good compromise. In the end you get to have your cake and eat it too, just with waiting ~4 months for the first bite.
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  #4598  
Old 11-27-2013, 05:16 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Noitora made a decent point that flying offers a unique form of exploration, but IMO it comes at too high a cost of invalidating other forms of exploration. Delaying flying, but not removing it, is a good compromise. In the end you get to have your cake and eat it too, just with waiting ~4 months for the first bite.
And you just mentioned why it causes more harm to exploration than good. Hence why I said I haven't seen any valid arguments for it.

However, I see the way they are doing it as perfect - no flying at start, ground exploration and sense of danger. Then, probably with the addition of Arrakoa content that has you flying platforms a lot, you get flying when most are pretty done and satisfied by the world and need new stuff. That's the way to go for me.
  #4599  
Old 11-27-2013, 06:08 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
And you just mentioned why it causes more harm to exploration than good. Hence why I said I haven't seen any valid arguments for it.

However, I see the way they are doing it as perfect - no flying at start, ground exploration and sense of danger. Then, probably with the addition of Arrakoa content that has you flying platforms a lot, you get flying when most are pretty done and satisfied by the world and need new stuff. That's the way to go for me.
Why should they dictate what I do and how I explore? Especially if I hit level 100 and then still can't get flying even after I've explored the damned world?
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  #4600  
Old 11-27-2013, 06:23 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Considering the flying conversation is dominating the thread, might it be a good idea to give it its own thread?
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