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  #251  
Old 08-16-2014, 03:46 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Sylvanas said the Alliance would be able to crush the Forsaken if they actually tried.
When? Jeezus Blizzard. There's too many goddamned people writing this story now.
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  #252  
Old 08-16-2014, 03:52 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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When? Jeezus Blizzard. There's too many goddamned people writing this story now.
Tides of War. I dont remember the literal words but yeah, she is/was fearful of a full scale assault towards Lordaeron.

That being said saying that The Forsaken wouldnt be as strong without the blight is like saying the Gnomes wouldnt be as strong without their inventions or the Dalanarians without their magic. I mean, is part of their stuff.
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  #253  
Old 08-16-2014, 04:48 PM
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Sylvanas said the Alliance would be able to crush the Forsaken if they actually tried.
Wow! An entire faction can crush an unassisted portion of another faction! News and more at 11 o'clock!
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  #254  
Old 08-16-2014, 05:25 PM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Wow! An entire faction can crush an unassisted portion of another faction! News and more at 11 o'clock!
I know that's sarcasm, but there are people who really believe that the forsaken would be able to repulse any attack on them. They believe that the forsaken are strong enough and the blight/plague is a good enough weapon to work against any and all enemies and that the forsaken would be able to easily replace any losses by using the dead. This of course ignores several facts like the Alliance -knows- how to fight the undead, they know about the plague/blight and would have countermeasures and for the forsaken to raise the dead after a battle, the forsaken have to hold the battlefield in the first place. Plus a bunch of other things.

As it is, there's a crap load of problems with the forsaken that Fojar has outlined well. And until those are resolved, the forsaken will continue to be the untouchable jackasses they are.
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  #255  
Old 08-16-2014, 05:34 PM
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Wow! An entire faction can crush an unassisted portion of another faction! News and more at 11 o'clock!
Assuming, of course, we can take those words at face value... instead of say, taking them with the same amount of salt people should have taken the "unified juggernaut" line.
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #256  
Old 08-17-2014, 03:09 PM
BloodKnight BloodKnight is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
Sylvanas said the Alliance would be able to crush the Forsaken if they actually tried.
While that probably would happen. (Entire Faction>Single Race like Genesis pointed out). The actually stuff we see in the game, mainly the Battle of Gilneas, the destruction of South Shore, and the Battle of Andorhal makes it clear that the Forsaken are not pushovers.
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You've convinced me. Sylvanas shot an infernal, I now trust her with my life.
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  #257  
Old 08-17-2014, 03:57 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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While that probably would happen. (Entire Faction>Single Race like Genesis pointed out). The actually stuff we see in the game, mainly the Battle of Gilneas, the destruction of South Shore, and the Battle of Andorhal makes it clear that the Forsaken are not pushovers.
Except, you know, they had to use those weapons simply to gain control of places that were filled with either civilians or traumatized refugees. And even that cost them half their Val'kyr.

Reminder that the Forsaken were getting fucking rolled by a bunch of farmers wielding pitchforks in Andorhal until they deployed a superweapon.

Also, the Forsaken lost the Battle of Gilneas. Remember? Their plague carriers were all destroyed and a gunship was crashed into their assembled lines. By a bunch of civilian refugees from a kingdom that was already decimated.
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You are right Fojar.

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  #258  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:21 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Fojar, what's the point of the Alliance trying to retake Lordaeron?

From an Alliance perspective: Who would govern it? The Alliance backed Garithos because he was a Lordaeron noble who had a claim. He died. Varian isn't a Lordaeron noble and even if he could somehow project his forces all the way to Tirisfal, and beat Sylvanas and the Horde, who would he entrust it's leadership too? Some random Lordaeron commoner? Those things are just not done. Stormwind has no dog in this fight. He's having a hard time trying to keep the Forsaken off Stormgrade and Gilneas. The only Lordaeron noble still alive is Tirion Fordring and he's not even Alliance aligned. If he switched over to Alliance then Varian would have a dog in the fight of reconquering it.

From a human perspective: If you are a Lordaeron refugee and you still want to live in Lordaeron you're crazy. Since all the nobles died off you'd just be an upstart commoner unrecognized by anybody. There is literally thousands of better places for humans to live and prosper where you're not fighting for plagued diseased lands and are being hunted by undead and reanimated. Northrend was colonized, Stormwind is the heart of humanity, even Pandaria welcomes humans with open arms since the Alliance has allies there, and if you're really determined to live in Lordaeron, join the Argent Crusade. The Alliance and Horde are at peace, they're trying to deplague Gilneas, what's the point of starting a war with Sylvannas and the Horde again?

Sure I was raw that Sylvanas kicked Thassarian's ass in Lordaeron, but Arthas has been killed avenging Terenas, and Varian is trying to make the world a place where humans can live in peace and safety. Humans with the discovery of new lands and a unified Alliance no longer have their backs against the wall. Maybe it's best just to let Lordaeron go and let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe Sylvanas will get what's coming to her, maybe she'll atone, maybe she'll just have a tighter leash either by Vol'jin or by the Alliance. It don't mean shit to the average joe human who's just trying to find a place in the world with a roof over his head and where he can safely feed his family.
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  #259  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:25 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Fojar, what's the point of the Alliance trying to retake Lordaeron?

From an Alliance perspective: Who would govern it? The Alliance backed Garithos because he was a Lordaeron noble who had a claim. He died. Varian isn't a Lordaeron noble and even if he could somehow project his forces all the way to Tirisfal, and beat Sylvanas and the Horde, who would he entrust it's leadership too? Some random Lordaeron commoner? Those things are just not done. Stormwind has no dog in this fight. He's having a hard time trying to keep the Forsaken off Stormgrade and Gilneas. The only Lordaeron noble still alive is Tirion Fordring and he's not even Alliance aligned. If he switched over to Alliance then Varian would have a dog in the fight of reconquering it.

From a human perspective: If you are a Lordaeron refugee and you still want to live in Lordaeron you're crazy. There is literally thousands of better places for humans to live and prosper where you're not fighting for plagued diseased lands and are being hunted by undead and reanimated. Northrend was colonized, Stormwind is the heart of humanity, even Pandaria welcomes humans with open arms since the Alliance has allies there, and if you're really determined to live in Lordaeron, join the Argent Crusade. The Alliance and Horde are at peace, they're trying to deplague Gilneas, what's the point of starting a war with Sylvannas and the Horde again?

Sure I was raw that Sylvanas kicked Thassarian's ass in Lordaeron, but Arthas has been killed avenging Terenas, and Varian is trying to make the world a place where humans can live in peace and safety. Humans with the discovery of new lands and a unified Alliance no longer have their backs against the wall. Maybe it's best just to let Lordaeron go and let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe Sylvanas will get what's coming to her, maybe she'll atone, maybe she'll just have a tighter leash either by Vol'jin or by the Alliance. It don't mean shit to the average joe human who's just trying to find a place in the world with a roof over his head and where he can safely feed his family.
Okay, who hacked Sports?

Come on guys, fess up.
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  #260  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:31 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Fojar, what's the point of the Alliance trying to retake Lordaeron?

From an Alliance perspective: Who would govern it? The Alliance backed Garithos because he was a Lordaeron noble who had a claim. He died. Varian isn't a Lordaeron noble and even if he could somehow project his forces all the way to Tirisfal, and beat Sylvanas and the Horde, who would he entrust it's leadership too? Some random Lordaeron commoner? Those things are just not done. Stormwind has no dog in this fight. He's having a hard time trying to keep the Forsaken off Stormgrade and Gilneas. The only Lordaeron noble still alive is Tirion Fordring and he's not even Alliance aligned. If he switched over to Alliance then Varian would have a dog in the fight of reconquering it.

From a human perspective: If you are a Lordaeron refugee and you still want to live in Lordaeron you're crazy. Since all the nobles died off you'd just be an upstart commoner unrecognized by anybody. There is literally thousands of better places for humans to live and prosper where you're not fighting for plagued diseased lands and are being hunted by undead and reanimated. Northrend was colonized, Stormwind is the heart of humanity, even Pandaria welcomes humans with open arms since the Alliance has allies there, and if you're really determined to live in Lordaeron, join the Argent Crusade. The Alliance and Horde are at peace, they're trying to deplague Gilneas, what's the point of starting a war with Sylvannas and the Horde again?

Sure I was raw that Sylvanas kicked Thassarian's ass in Lordaeron, but Arthas has been killed avenging Terenas, and Varian is trying to make the world a place where humans can live in peace and safety. Humans with the discovery of new lands and a unified Alliance no longer have their backs against the wall. Maybe it's best just to let Lordaeron go and let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe Sylvanas will get what's coming to her, maybe she'll atone, maybe she'll just have a tighter leash either by Vol'jin or by the Alliance. It don't mean shit to the average joe human who's just trying to find a place in the world with a roof over his head and where he can safely feed his family.
Read the OP. This thread isn't really about anything in this post even though I disagree with most of it.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #261  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:42 PM
BloodKnight BloodKnight is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Except, you know, they had to use those weapons simply to gain control of places that were filled with either civilians or traumatized refugees. And even that cost them half their Val'kyr.

Reminder that the Forsaken were getting fucking rolled by a bunch of farmers wielding pitchforks in Andorhal until they deployed a superweapon.

Also, the Forsaken lost the Battle of Gilneas. Remember? Their plague carriers were all destroyed and a gunship was crashed into their assembled lines. By a bunch of civilian refugees from a kingdom that was already decimated.
What is the official word on Gilneas? Last time I heard it was an empty wasteland.

And the other two battles were still victories. Not flat out victories (because game play) but the Forsaken in Vanilla when from a small kingdom surrounded by enemies, begging the Horde for help. To Cata getting shit done and expanding their territory 2x fold.

Damn it feels good to be a Forsaken fan.
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You've convinced me. Sylvanas shot an infernal, I now trust her with my life.
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  #262  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:45 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Read the OP. This thread isn't really about anything in this post even though I disagree with most of it.
I will just say that I agree with Triceron's points regarding the Alliance's narrative about Lordaaeron.
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  #263  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:50 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I will just say that I agree with Triceron's points regarding the Alliance's narrative about Lordaaeron.
Triceron believes that we're on something like 28 Alliances and counting and that therefore the Alliance doesn't have any narrative and never has and that this is the natural state of things.

I think that perspective is not only really dumb but also malignant because it resigns the Alliance to never having any narrative depth whatsoever.

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What is the official word on Gilneas? Last time I heard it was an empty wasteland.
Yeah the Forsaken plagued it offscreen. I'm starting to notice a running theme here.

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And the other two battles were still victories. Not flat out victories (because game play) but the Forsaken in Vanilla when from a small kingdom surrounded by enemies, begging the Horde for help. To Cata getting shit done and expanding their territory 2x fold.

Damn it feels good to be a Forsaken fan.
Yeah I'll bet it does feel good to be a Forsaken fan considering they've gotten literally every single thing that they want and everyone they come into contact with has been derailed, made stupider, or made incompetent so that it could happen. This includes the Alliance, the Kirin Tor, the Argent Crusade, and the Horde.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #264  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:02 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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My troubles with the forsaken stems from the fact that you have to act like a villain to get an absurd amount of screen time.
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  #265  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:05 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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So I was doing Scholomance earlier today and I asked a question: Why is Lilian Voss undead? Or more specifically, what does she bring to the table by being undead instead of a human?

The only thing that I could think of is that it makes it so that Gandling can control her and that's it. Nothing else is informed by the fact that she's undead. There is nothing about the role she fills that couldn't have been equally plausibly filled by a human.

So why is she undead?
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You are right Fojar.
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  #266  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:14 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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Triceron believes that we're on something like 28 Alliances and counting and that therefore the Alliance doesn't have any narrative and never has and that this is the natural state of things.
No what he said was about Lordaeron's narative was:
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From what we know, all the Lordaeronian survivors were split to being Stormwind Loyalists, part of the Scarlet Crusade, or part of the Argent Dawn. There is no more Lordaeron, and whatever reference is made is done in respects to it as a former nation.

The same parallel would be whenever Thrall or the Horde refer to Doomhammer and his legacy.

At any rate, WoW's Alliance narrative isn't about reclaiming Lordaeron as an autonomous power. It's all about Varian's Alliance and where he moves it forward. If the Alliance even had reclaimed Undercity during the Battle for Undercity, there still wouldn't have been a Lordaeron nation to populate it. There is no formal leadership or collective nation of its citizens. The narrative has driven them all to fall under Stormwind's monarchy. The battle in undercity was simply a plot point to push the tensions between the Horde and Alliance. If it were actually a Lordaeron story, then we would have been given supporting characters like a Calia Menethil to support the idea of reclamation.
The war's done. Alliance and Horde are at peace, they established the new boundaries. Horde keep Lordaeron, Gilneas and Ashenvale belongs to Alliance. The Alliance's goal now is fighting Garrosh and his alternate dimension orc Horde. Then it'll be some Burning Legion asshole. Alliance should appreciate what it has. As a human go enjoy a Stormwind apple. Enjoy the serenity of Pandaria. Vanquish evil overlord raidbosses like heroes. Certainly there is better ways to enjoy warcraft as an Alliance then to feel like ostracized and oppressed. People in the real world like Israel and Gaza have real problems so learn to smell the roses Fojar.
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  #267  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:16 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Okay, who hacked Sports?

Come on guys, fess up.
Sports has always been a Varian/Stormwind fanboy. I don't think he ever cared about Lordaeron.
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  #268  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:22 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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So I was doing Scholomance earlier today and I asked a question: Why is Lilian Voss undead? Or more specifically, what does she bring to the table by being undead instead of a human?

The only thing that I could think of is that it makes it so that Gandling can control her and that's it. Nothing else is informed by the fact that she's undead. There is nothing about the role she fills that couldn't have been equally plausibly filled by a human.

So why is she undead?
Why are Lady Liadrin, Thrall, Baine, and Vol'jin not human?
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  #269  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:32 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The war's done. Alliance and Horde are at peace, they established the new boundaries. Horde keep Lordaeron, Gilneas and Ashenvale belongs to Alliance. The Alliance's goal now is fighting Garrosh and his alternate dimension orc Horde. Then it'll be some Burning Legion asshole. Alliance should appreciate what it has. As a human go enjoy a Stormwind apple. Enjoy the serenity of Pandaria. Vanquish evil overlord raidbosses like heroes. Certainly there is better ways to enjoy warcraft as an Alliance then to feel like ostracized and oppressed. People in the real world like Israel and Gaza have real problems so learn to smell the roses Fojar.
A) His argument was made on the basis of what we don't know, like who would rule a reclaimed Lordaeron or what the Alliance's specific plans were. My point is that we should know but we don't because that entire narrative has been uncerimoniously handed off to the Forsaken to the Alliance's detriment. This is a story, Blizzard can answer those questions any time they want but they don't.

B) Fucking lol if you believe that ANYTHING that we've seen over the past two expansions has constituted progression of the Alliance narrative. "Enjoying the serenity of Pandaria and vanquish raid bosses" also do not constitute progression of the human narrative. Not only are none of those actions you listed something exclusive to humanity but how does "enjoying the serenity of Pandaria" make any sense when there's been an ongoing crisis for the Alliance in the northern eastern kingdoms since Cataclysm?

Blizzard keeps on doing stuff like Pandaria or alternate Draenor but my enjoyment of them is constantly being threatened by the fact that it doesn't feel like a coherent and logical progression of the human narrative since Warcraft 3.

C) Two points here. First, you like Varian, right? You've argued that the human storyline right now constitutes Varian trying to make the world safe for his subjects. You understand that the people being murdered by the Forsaken are his subjects, right? And him not even acknowledging that it's going on, let alone doing anything about it, reflects really really badly on him, right? Especially now that we've seen the resources at his command. Why does he help the Pandaren, who not only aren't his subjects but have actively spat on his help (Taran Zhu), while ignoring his own subjects? I choose to give Varian the benefit of the doubt here and argue that it's the product of the huge narrative problems that have plagued the Alliance and humanity in particular since Cataclysm vis-a-vis Lordaeron and the Forsaken.

Second, you've argued that the storyline was concluded because killing Arthas avenged Terenas. As much as I like Arthas and Terenas the story isn't just about them. Right now, hundreds of thousands of people who were killed or lost their land are going unavenged. Right now the Forsaken are tormenting people, Varian's own subjects, and nobody is hearing their agony. The story of the people of Lordaeron has been worse than ignored, it's been actively perverted in an attempt to throw that particular narrative torch to their tormentors.

And you and Triceron are accepting this status quo, refusing to challenge it, allowing it to happen, and telling me to go and eat a Stormwind apple or some stupid shit as if nothing is wrong? As if humanity is safe and its ghosts have been avenged?

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Why are Lady Liadrin, Thrall, Baine, and Vol'jin not human?
Not the same, since those races all have their own histories and cultures. Voss literally acts like a human 100% of the time and we are told that her history and beliefs are generally human ones. So why is she undead, narratively speaking? What does that bring to the table?
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.

Last edited by Fojar; 08-17-2014 at 05:34 PM..
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  #270  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:35 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Not the same, since those races all have their own histories and cultures. Voss literally acts like a human 100% of the time and we are told that her history and beliefs are generally human ones. So why is she undead, narratively speaking? What does that bring to the table?
The Stormwind humans were destroyed by the orcs and the Lordaeron ones were destroyed by the scourge.
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  #271  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:36 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The Stormwind humans were destroyed by the orcs and the Lordaeron ones were destroyed by the scourge.
You didn't answer my question. What does her undeath bring to the table that couldn't otherwise be there?
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  #272  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:41 PM
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So I was doing Scholomance earlier today and I asked a question: Why is Lilian Voss undead? Or more specifically, what does she bring to the table by being undead instead of a human?

The only thing that I could think of is that it makes it so that Gandling can control her and that's it. Nothing else is informed by the fact that she's undead. There is nothing about the role she fills that couldn't have been equally plausibly filled by a human.

So why is she undead?
Well, within the context of the Scholomance alone that's true. The leveling quests wouldn't make much sense otherwise though, since being killed is kinda why she turns on the Scarlet Crusade in the first place.

Ultimately having her in Scholomance at all did feel an awful lot like cramming her into a story where she didn't belong. I think it might have been some sort of halfhearted attempt to create a connection between the simultaneous revamping of the Scholomance and Scarlet Monastery, but it never really worked because compared to her vendetta with the Scarlet Crusade, her connection to the Scourge is tenuous and extremely impersonal.

Really, I feel like it would've made a ton more thematic sense for it to be Koltira or Thassarian (depending on the player group's faction) heading in to polish off the Cult of the Damned and struggling with Gandling's control - maybe play around with him tapping into their addiction to killing as death knights in order to force the player to beat them into submission.

But sadly Andorhal happened, so they're both MIA and we got something a lot less logical.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:44 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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So I was doing Scholomance earlier today and I asked a question: Why is Lilian Voss undead? Or more specifically, what does she bring to the table by being undead instead of a human?

The only thing that I could think of is that it makes it so that Gandling can control her and that's it. Nothing else is informed by the fact that she's undead. There is nothing about the role she fills that couldn't have been equally plausibly filled by a human.

So why is she undead?
She hates the Scarlets.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:44 PM
Sports72Xtrm Sports72Xtrm is offline

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A) His argument was made on the basis of what we don't know, like who would rule a reclaimed Lordaeron or what the Alliance's specific plans were. My point is that we should know but we don't because that entire narrative has been uncerimoniously handed off to the Forsaken to the Alliance's detriment. This is a story, Blizzard can answer those questions any time they want but they don't.

B) Fucking lol if you believe that ANYTHING that we've seen over the past two expansions has constituted progression of the Alliance narrative. "Enjoying the serenity of Pandaria and vanquish raid bosses" also do not constitute progression of the human narrative. Not only are none of those actions you listed something exclusive to humanity but how does "enjoying the serenity of Pandaria" make any sense when there's been an ongoing crisis for the Alliance in the northern eastern kingdoms since Cataclysm?

Blizzard keeps on doing stuff like Pandaria or alternate Draenor but my enjoyment of them is constantly being threatened by the fact that it doesn't feel like a coherent and logical progression of the human narrative since Warcraft 3.

C) Two points here. First, you like Varian, right? You've argued that the human storyline right now constitutes Varian trying to make the world safe for his subjects. You understand that the people being murdered by the Forsaken are his subjects, right? And him not even acknowledging that it's going on, let alone doing anything about it, reflects really really badly on him, right? Especially now that we've seen the resources at his command. Why does he help the Pandaren, who not only aren't his subjects but have actively spat on his help (Taran Zhu), while ignoring his own subjects? I choose to give Varian the benefit of the doubt here and argue that it's the product of the huge narrative problems that have plagued the Alliance and humanity in particular since Cataclysm vis-a-vis Lordaeron and the Forsaken.

Second, you've argued that the storyline was concluded because killing Arthas avenged Terenas. As much as I like Arthas and Terenas the story isn't just about them. Right now, hundreds of thousands of people who were killed or lost their land are going unavenged. Right now the Forsaken are tormenting people, Varian's own subjects, and nobody is hearing their agony. The story of the people of Lordaeron has been worse than ignored, it's been actively perverted in an attempt to throw that particular narrative torch to their tormentors.

And you and Triceron are accepting this status quo, refusing to challenge it, allowing it to happen, and telling me to go and eat a Stormwind apple or some stupid shit as if nothing is wrong? As if humanity is safe and its ghosts have been avenged?



Not the same, since those races all have their own histories and cultures. Voss literally acts like a human 100% of the time and we are told that her history and beliefs are generally human ones. So why is she undead, narratively speaking? What does that bring to the table?
Varian's focus is in fixing up Gilneas'; his allies lands so the Alliance can have a foothold in Lordaeron where they can sustain a campaign should the Forsaken become a problem again. The goal is to contain the Forsaken, if all out war breaks again, then the goal will be extermination of the Forsaken and the Horde. But now that it's peace time, it's about fortifying and securing the Alliance, the Gilneans, and Stormwind.

Why does Varian help the Pandaren? Why does America "liberate" the Iraqis?
Just look at any battleground description from Pandaria. This is from Deepwind Gorge.
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It's good business, it's the right thing to do, it's good politics, it's good military planning, it hurts Garrosh and the Horde, shall I go on?

Look I'm too hungry to give an in depth explanation so I'll just leave it at that and I'm going to find myself a real apple to snack on.
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  #275  
Old 08-17-2014, 05:45 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Well, within the context of the Scholomance alone that's true. The leveling quests wouldn't make much sense otherwise though, since being killed is kinda why she turns on the Scarlet Crusade in the first place.
Yeah, but undeath didn't have to be what caused her to fight the Scarlet Crusade. My point is that her undeath doesn't inform her character. Despite being undead she doesn't act undead, she just acts like a human who wants vengeance. And this is both concerning and relevant to this thread because I get the sense that she was created as a prime example of what Blizzard as of Cataclysm wants the Forsaken to be.

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Varian's focus is in fixing up Gilneas'; his allies lands so the Alliance can have a foothold in Lordaeron where they can sustain a campaign should the Forsaken become a problem again. The goal is to contain the Forsaken, if all out war breaks again, then the goal will be extermination of the Forsaken and the Horde. But now that it's peace time, it's about fortifying and securing the Alliance, the Gilneans, and Stormwind.
The Gilneans have a sovereign of their own to advocate for them. The people of Lordaeron don't and need Varian to act in their interests more than ever now. Yet he acts out of concern for the Gilneans?

Why does the suffering of Gilneans have Varians ear but not the suffering of Lordaeron? Varian didn't even LIKE Gilneas or Genn Greymane until recently but he has very close personal ties to Lordaeron. Why is he rushing to help Gilneas but doing nothing for the people of Lordaeron, who need him far more and are of equal standing to any Gilnean in the Alliance, while they are herded into deathcamps and soulraped?

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Why does Varian help the Pandaren? Why does America "liberate" the Iraqis?
Just look at any battleground description from Pandaria. This is from Deepwind Gorge.

It's good business, it's the right thing to do, it's good politics, it's good military planning, it hurts Garrosh and the Horde, shall I go on?
So what you're saying is that Varian is actually a huge douchebag prick and that's why he isn't helping his subjects? I don't think he is, I think he's intended to be a good guy with Superman morality but the writing is doing a shit job of reflecting that because the relevant narrative in this case has been given to the Forsaken.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.

Last edited by Fojar; 08-17-2014 at 05:51 PM..
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