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View Poll Results: Horde bias?
It's real, man! 27 60.00%
Total bullcrap. 15 33.33%
Nope, Alliance bias! 3 6.67%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 05-11-2013, 04:59 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Why can't they use tiger?
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  #152  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:02 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarthat View Post
No shit. A pretty, magical horse that only appears to virgins? I don't see how that could be received badly, no, sir.
It's really not that hard to show a unicorn as being pretty badass.

Fire Emblem did it well.

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
Because it sucks.
Hey, look! An opinion!
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  #153  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:02 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by asafoetida View Post
Why can't they use tiger?
Pfft, tigers come from jungles. Horde has jungle trolls. Total horde bias. Not like lion. Lion comes from great plains. Not associated with horde at all.


Which reminds me: how the hell do the people of Stormwind know what a lion is? As far as I know, those things are only found in the barrens.
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  #154  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:03 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Alliance are more about panthers and nightsabers, rather than tigers. (Which really are more trollish.)
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  #155  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:05 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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The lion has no identity, just like the Alliance itself. Lor'themar's left nut has more development than the whole Alliance leadership.

Come at me.
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  #156  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:05 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Pfft, tigers come from jungles. Horde has jungle trolls. Total horde bias. Not like lion. Lion comes from great plains. Not associated with horde at all.


Which reminds me: how the hell do the people of Stormwind know what a lion is? As far as I know, those things are only found in the barrens.
But the Horde didn't have jungle trolls until the 3rd war.

Yeah, they just ripped European style for Stormwind, but Europe favor lion because the tigers they could find that at time are small and rare.
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  #157  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:06 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The lion has no identity, just like the Alliance itself. Lor'themar's left nut has more development than the whole Alliance leadership.

Come at me.
Eh, it's true. To be fair though, it is hard to compete with a 36-part epic that spans the entirety of the history of the warcraft universe.
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  #158  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:17 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Which reminds me: how the hell do the people of Stormwind know what a lion is? As far as I know, those things are only found in the barrens.
This is a conversation that's been gone over a few times before. I think the conclusion was that humans saw lions up in the Twilight Highlands (where there are a few) and drew inspiration from them.
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  #159  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:19 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
This is a conversation that's been gone over a few times before. I think the conclusion was that humans saw lions up in the Twilight Highlands (where there are a few) and drew inspiration from them.
They should also see tigers as well.
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  #160  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:23 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by asafoetida View Post
They should also see tigers as well.
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  #161  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:29 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Hey, look! An opinion!
Just because it's my opinion doesn't mean it's not right.

It does however mean it isn't wrong.
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  #162  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:35 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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The Alliance in a nutshell.
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  #163  
Old 05-11-2013, 05:53 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The lion has no identity, just like the Alliance itself. Lor'themar's left nut has more development than the whole Alliance leadership.

Come at me.
I'm coming at you bro.

Because you're fucking wrong.

Lor'themar has no balls.
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  #164  
Old 05-11-2013, 06:02 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #165  
Old 05-11-2013, 09:06 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
As for the lion not being well represented for the other Alliance races, I kinda disagree with that. Each race at least has some trait that connects them with the lion, whether it's pride, nobility, faith, ferocity, and honor. (This even goes for weirdo races like Draenei or savage races like Worgen.)
If they were going for that sort of connection, the Wolf would be better.

(That kind of steals from older Horde themes, but I don't think the current Horde thematics care about it so much anymore.)

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
First, there is the unicorn symbol from Warcraft II, which appears on both the ballista and the elven destroyer artwork.
I hadn't realized it was on the ballistae, thanks!

But anyway, I think that unicorn is more of an Elven image. The Elves had a role in making the Ballista, even in the older lore.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 05-11-2013 at 09:09 PM..
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  #166  
Old 05-11-2013, 10:16 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
Just because it's my opinion doesn't mean it's not right.

It does however mean it isn't wrong.
Of course, I didn't even say you were wrong or right.

Just calling it like it is.
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  #167  
Old 05-12-2013, 02:16 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
The lion has no identity, just like the Alliance itself. Lor'themar's left nut has more development than the whole Alliance leadership.

Come at me.
The fuck did you just say about me, you little bitch?
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  #168  
Old 05-12-2013, 07:44 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
The fuck did you just say about me, you little bitch?
I imagined your avatar was speaking this line. As a sort of ass-lion. See, the unshaved hairs form a sort of mane.
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  #169  
Old 05-21-2013, 06:35 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Seriously though, on the topic of symbols.

It's not that the Lion or the Wolf fits or doesn't fit. Not exclusively.

The problem is that by giving the Alliance the symbol of the humans is flat out saying THEY are the Alliance from a thematic standpoint. It doesn't really matter how many members that join, the biggest problem with the Alliance at the moment is Humanity, while getting very little development that furthers the story, is overlsaturated throughout the Alliance.

Human themed ships, human themed buildings, human themed armor, human themed morals, human themed, human themed, human themed.

The Banner is just another continuation of that.

You can say all you want how the Lion fits the Alliance.

But right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

The Lion is the symbol of the humans. Not the Alliance. The Alliance is more than the humans of Azeroth.

You need a symbol that makes the Alliance it's own organization. IT's own entity that the humans are part of. It needs to have an identity outside of them.

And that's why the Lion needs to go. Because the Alliance, at the moment, doesn't exist. It doesn't. It's in the same boat as the Horde is in right now. Ohh, certainly, the Horde has a bigger, badder, more evil leader, but at the end of the day, the current Horde (until the siege at least) is defined by the Orcs. Their culture. Their warchief. It's all that matters, and the Horde is them.

But it's now getting it's own identity outside of the Orcs with the rebellion. That of family.. That even if the Orc's started the Horde, they are no longer the ones who define it. That run it. The other races WILL step up and defend their new family, even if it's against the Orcs.

The Alliance on the other hand? It's not getting any of that. Even if you make the claim that the Alliance has gotten lore (And, it has) , it's story hasn't changed or evolved. Varian is High King now, but it doesn't really change anything. The problem is that many of the races of the Alliance are already established. Dwarves, Humans and Gnomes were so intermixed that their cultures and builldings are largely interchangable or intermixable. More so with Dwarves than gnomes.

The end result is that the Alliance is stuck in the same spot it was in Warcraft 2. An organization largely associated with humans, despite the fact that it's no longer made up of kingdoms almost exclusively human.

And, in many ways, as BaronGackle over on SoL has pointed out, it's MORE human centric now than it was in WC2, where Elven towers and Elven creations were crucial to Alliance development and tech growth.

The lion needs to go, not neccisarily because it doesn't fit Alliance thematic, Because it does.

But it does because currently Alliance is the same as Human, despite how many member races that belong to the group.
Posting this over here from my post in the Story Forums..

It's much more serious than what I was over here on why I think the symbol should change.
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  #170  
Old 05-21-2013, 08:03 PM
Kyalin Raintree Kyalin Raintree is offline

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A good argument, Ferlion, but like the point I just responded to, I don't see it changing. They've set it pretty much in stone, along with the idea of a human themed Alliance.
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  #171  
Old 05-22-2013, 02:31 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Losing the lion might be a good development for the franchise as a whole yes.

It could make the Alliance symbol as recognizable as the Horde one which would increase the overall public visibility of warcraft.
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  #172  
Old 05-22-2013, 02:55 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Both the current Horde and Alliance symbols are, respectively, orcish and human symbols. They "fit" thematically, but still.

The most obvious alternative, the L icon, is mostly a human symbol too, even though Ally elves used it in RTS.
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  #173  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:46 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Both the current Horde and Alliance symbols are, respectively, orcish and human symbols. They "fit" thematically, but still.

The most obvious alternative, the L icon, is mostly a human symbol too, even though Ally elves used it in RTS.
I just tweeted Kosak and Loreology about where the Horde symbol came from, historically.

Maybe we'll get some juicy lore about it being an ancient, mythical emblem for honor. Or blood. I'm pretty sure we won't be told it represents the Burning Legion.
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