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  #676  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:25 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Originally Posted by Shandalay View Post
Just to nitpick a little, he does not actually say she burnt it down. He says, you see her standing there.
It could still be that this is exactly what the Alliance also sees... and takes it as.. 'Sylvanas did that'. It would be an understandable conclusion - just the same we are coming to now.
It might not neccessarily be true, however.
It was Putress all along.
Sylvanas was just visiting her sister.
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  #677  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:30 PM
Apep Apep is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
It was Putress all along.
Sylvanas was just visiting her sister.
Teldrassil was an inside job. You heard it here first.
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  #678  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:32 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Honestly, Teldrassil's days have been numbered for a while now.

Remember that it was initially going to be attacked by the Horde back in MoP with the Bell. Granted, it'd still stand but still, they've had a target on it for a while.
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  #679  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:33 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by Niryv View Post
Anyone else can't wait to see the mental gymnastics blizzard will pull to explain why every single neutral faction like Cenarion Circle/Dala or Army of the Light don't wipe the Horde from azeroth now that they are burning Teldrassil/Hyjal and attempting to conquer Stornwind so they can raise more humans into undeath.

The factions really are black and white now.

Kind of like Paragon/Renegade in Mass Effect. Guess being edgy and evil is still cool though.
Cenarion Circle: They'll probably stay out of it stating it is their duty to heal and protect nature, not destroy the Horde. They'll focus on tending to the damage caused by the War, and the World is their greater concern.

Dalaran: Technically Dalaran is Alliance and should be providing support to the war effort. I'm willing to wait and see what happens here. If its true that Sylvanas used a shard of Sargeras' sword to destroy Teldrassil, even Dalaran cannot ignore that, as it is a blatant misuse of a magical artifact on the scale of what Garrosh himself did several times.

The Argent Crusade: I may be wrong, but wasn't the Argent Crusade disbanded in Legion and reformed into the Silver Hand as part of the Paladin Class Hall? With Turalyon back as well, the LAST of the original 5 Paladins ordained by Alonsus Faol himself, I'm curious to see what the remaining Argents will do. The conflict between the Horde and Alliance has ultimately been a non-factor to the Argents. I think it depends on whether or not they'll be attacked by one side or the other. I can see the Alliance attempting to court their favor and gain their support, but I'm not sure the Argents would back the Alliance. It's made up of races from both factions, and while they're bound together by mutual interests in purging the lands of the Scourge and similar evil, I think for most opposing the Alliance or the Horde would be too close to betrayal for them to do it. If the Argents get pulled into the conflict, I'm pretty sure it'd split the organization and ultimately make it dissolve.

Army of the Light: Pretty sure they're joining the Alliance actually. Lightforged Draenei are an Alliance race, and when the Alliance leaders are discussing new races to recruit to the Alliance, Turalyon is present and suggests they bring the Army of the Light (Lightforged Draenei more or less) into the fold.

Earthen Ring: Probably too busy keeping Azeroth on life support, BUT Thrall is coming back and as a Horde Hero it seems, so we'll have to wait and see. Perhaps they'll join the Horde, resulting in split like the Argents. Or it could be JUST Thrall walking away to take part.

Knights of the Ebon Blade: They'll probably fight on both sides like always, and enjoy themselves immensely for it.
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  #680  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:36 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
But, it really doesn't make any sense, at all. Why burn down the isolated and hermit-like Night Elf city when you have a weapon that can ignite a giant magic fire-resistant and water soaked tree?
I would suspect that it's because of location. Garrosh went after the night elves first since they were the closest to Org and the major Alliance power on the continent. If Sylvanas is doing this to secure her position as Warchief, then it would make sense for her to go after something that her people can see, rather than something (which tactically makes more sense).

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Why not use that on Stormwind, which was stated to be her actual target? Why go out of your way to alert the Alliance of your intentions, when you could have truly defeated their ACTUAL leadership in Stormwind instantly, destroying all of their military, political, and intelligence infrastructure in one fell swoop? Teldrassil and Iron Forge would be slim pickings after that, due to disarray. Instead, she gives the Alliance the excuse to purge the Horde, and her, from EK and doesn't use her new "toys" against them?
I suspect that the book will answer that question as well as your others. Something goes wrong with the Stormwind operation and would then force the Horde to go after Teldrassil first, or maybe the Teldrassil operation was a distraction and force SW to react and pull their forces to help the night elves and take in refugees. Or maybe the rest of the Horde balk at going after SW, there's a lot of unknowns.
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  #681  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:43 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
I suspect that the book will answer that question as well as your others. Something goes wrong with the Stormwind operation and would then force the Horde to go after Teldrassil first, or maybe the Teldrassil operation was a distraction and force SW to react and pull their forces to help the night elves and take in refugees. Or maybe the rest of the Horde balk at going after SW, there's a lot of unknowns.
Could be as simple as the Val'kyr not being able to raise ashes. Or raise from ashes in any meaningful number before exhausting themselves to uselessness.
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  #682  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:58 PM
taelon taelon is offline

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Your probably trying to find a reason rather than agreeing. But i'll still criticize.
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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Cenarion Circle: They'll probably stay out of it stating it is their duty to heal and protect nature, not destroy the Horde. They'll focus on tending to the damage caused by the War, and the World is their greater concern.
The horde are damaging nature though and the cenarion circle are pretty much night elves and too much tied to them. It's already stupid they didn't push the horde out of ashenvale.

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Dalaran: Technically Dalaran is Alliance and should be providing support to the war effort. I'm willing to wait and see what happens here. If its true that Sylvanas used a shard of Sargeras' sword to destroy Teldrassil, even Dalaran cannot ignore that, as it is a blatant misuse of a magical artifact on the scale of what Garrosh himself did several times.
nod

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
The Argent Crusade: I may be wrong, but wasn't the Argent Crusade disbanded in Legion and reformed into the Silver Hand as part of the Paladin Class Hall? With Turalyon back as well, the LAST of the original 5 Paladins ordained by Alonsus Faol himself, I'm curious to see what the remaining Argents will do. The conflict between the Horde and Alliance has ultimately been a non-factor to the Argents. I think it depends on whether or not they'll be attacked by one side or the other. I can see the Alliance attempting to court their favor and gain their support, but I'm not sure the Argents would back the Alliance. It's made up of races from both factions, and while they're bound together by mutual interests in purging the lands of the Scourge and similar evil, I think for most opposing the Alliance or the Horde would be too close to betrayal for them to do it. If the Argents get pulled into the conflict, I'm pretty sure it'd split the organization and ultimately make it dissolve.
Because the argent crusade loosing so much on the broken shore it becomes a bit harder but they still have a foothold in the plaguelands. And the key element to their reasoning is similar evil. On top of that the forsaken are too scourge like so they have every reason to fight the forsaken. These neutral organisations are for fighting for their ideals and goals not being blind.

The silver hand is harder though. It's goal was to ignore factions and fight the legion which is gone now. IT's also more racial mix despite it being silver hand. I would find it weird not having the majority be alliance just like earthern ring being the majority horde.

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Army of the Light: Pretty sure they're joining the Alliance actually. Lightforged Draenei are an Alliance race, and when the Alliance leaders are discussing new races to recruit to the Alliance, Turalyon is present and suggests they bring the Army of the Light (Lightforged Draenei more or less) into the fold.
The technology stuff is gonne be weird and will probably be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Earthen Ring: Probably too busy keeping Azeroth on life support, BUT Thrall is coming back and as a Horde Hero it seems, so we'll have to wait and see. Perhaps they'll join the Horde, resulting in split like the Argents. Or it could be JUST Thrall walking away to take part.
Interesting point that their busy with the wound. I get it why they wouldn't get involved but i'm not sure about them joining horde unless it's for defense purposes.

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
Knights of the Ebon Blade: They'll probably fight on both sides like always, and enjoy themselves immensely for it.
They would make more sense fighting the forsaken than argent crusade. They have a much bigger distaste of the scourge and would what the forsaken are doing much more.


The entire goal of those neutral organisations is that they go outside the faction politics and fight for their ideals. If one faction keeps doing things against their ideals those neutral organisations would react. That would be a realistic neutral standpoint.
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  #683  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:02 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Anduin manabombs hammerfall causing thrall to become angry as fuck because the bomb killed his kid.

So he is out for vengeance.

Ok serious mode on now,The Horde should recruit the iron horde and get their tech.
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  #684  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:11 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
Anduin manabombs hammerfall causing thrall to become angry as fuck because the bomb killed his kid.

So he is out for vengeance.

Ok serious mode on now,The Horde should recruit the iron horde and get their tech.
We should at least get their tech. Just because people didn't like the direction Garrosh's Horde went, that doesn't mean we want to be living like cavemen. That's why I argue the Horde's thing isn't being underdogs or noble savages.

Give us all the war machines we can handle. That's perfect for any Horde. Then let us use those when the time is right, and for real reasons that benefit us and our allies.
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  #685  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:17 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Honestly, the Horde should already have most of the Iron Horde's tech anyway. Much of it was just Blackfuse's stuff and lord knows there was plenty left behind in Orgrimmar after the Siege. I can't imagine the Gnomes found everything.
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  #686  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:18 PM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Much of the non-corrupted remnants of the Iron Horde were stated to help bolster the Horde's population at the end of WoD. The war and resources in both Legion and BfA could be attributed to that.

I'd reckon that the inevitable "Mag'har" Bronze skinned and Ash colored Orc subraces would be from AU Draenor. Most, not all. I can see the Mok'nathal joining(The Subrace roaster) as well.
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  #687  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:19 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Hordes strength isnt in numbers, never has been that has been the alliance strength.
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  #688  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:19 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by taelon View Post
Your probably trying to find a reason rather than agreeing. But i'll still criticize.

The horde are damaging nature though and the cenarion circle are pretty much night elves and too much tied to them. It's already stupid they didn't push the horde out of ashenvale.


nod


Because the argent crusade loosing so much on the broken shore it becomes a bit harder but they still have a foothold in the plaguelands. And the key element to their reasoning is similar evil. On top of that the forsaken are too scourge like so they have every reason to fight the forsaken. These neutral organisations are for fighting for their ideals and goals not being blind.

The silver hand is harder though. It's goal was to ignore factions and fight the legion which is gone now. IT's also more racial mix despite it being silver hand. I would find it weird not having the majority be alliance just like earthern ring being the majority horde.


The technology stuff is gonne be weird and will probably be ignored.


Interesting point that their busy with the wound. I get it why they wouldn't get involved but i'm not sure about them joining horde unless it's for defense purposes.


They would make more sense fighting the forsaken than argent crusade. They have a much bigger distaste of the scourge and would what the forsaken are doing much more.


The entire goal of those neutral organisations is that they go outside the faction politics and fight for their ideals. If one faction keeps doing things against their ideals those neutral organisations would react. That would be a realistic neutral standpoint.
I don't really disagree with anything you've stated. Logically the Cenarion Circle and the Ancients should be marching. I just think the reason they won't is that they'll focus on healing the damage caused by the war, than preventing it. Lame, I know, but I can almost guarantee that is what Blizzard will say they're doing, if its ever addressed at all. In an ideal world, I would like the Cenarion Circle to be Alliance and encompass Alliance Druids and Shamans, while the Earthen Ring goes Horde and encompasses Horde Druids and Shamans.

I'm not sure the Knights of the Ebon Blade have any ground to stand on as far as condemning others for, 'Scourge-like,' activities after Legion. That said, so far we have no indication that Sylvanas is using Blight or Val'kyr, so she may NOT be employing Scourge Tactics in the war. Certainly if she was using Blight and Val'kyr, the Alliance would have taken the Undercity at a much greater cost than it would be worth. I imagine she's holding the Val'kyr in reserve (probably doesn't want to risk losing anymore of them), and avoiding Blight to maintain the unity of the Horde.
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  #689  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:22 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Recruiting Blackrock remnants, Dragonmaw and well Draenor clans should be the orc subrace thing.

It would fit with the "uniting clans" thing.
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  #690  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:29 PM
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I just discovered that the name Waycrest (the noble house in Drustvar in BfA) originally comes from the RPG: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mishan_Waycrest

I wonder if Mishan will appear and be made canon, or if they just took her name.
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  #691  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:38 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I just discovered that the name Waycrest (the noble house in Drustvar in BfA) originally comes from the RPG: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mishan_Waycrest

I wonder if Mishan will appear and be made canon, or if they just took her name.
Nice catch. Pity Tandred doesn't exist though.
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  #692  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:41 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Much of the non-corrupted remnants of the Iron Horde were stated to help bolster the Horde's population at the end of WoD. The war and resources in both Legion and BfA could be attributed to that.
When was this? Where was this mentioned?
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  #693  
Old 11-05-2017, 06:53 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I dunno what game you've been playing but the Horde has always got the lion's share of development, victories, classes, quality animations, story, and so on and so forth. It's a trend that continues now; even with a genocidal undead banshee as their leader, something anathema to the Horde as a whole(or, at least used to be) they are happy to obediently follow her around as she does horrific things and we're told to feel PRIDE at it.

Yet the Alliance is never, ever, ever allowed to strike back or be angry at the development of the Horde. Every time they are at fault somehow; they need to control their anger. They need to feel REGRET.

It's a sort of disrespect on a virtual scale. Alliance players cannot feel pride so sayeth Blizzard. It's all a farce to advance the Horde story.
Oh yeah, the Alliance didn't win the dispute over at Stormheim.

Nor their races weren't the only ones to get development from 7.2 to 7.3.5.

Since you refuse to look at obvious facts, I'll add you to my ignore list. Sorry, but you've just proved your perspective isn't simply worthy of being looked at.
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  #694  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:04 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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When was this? Where was this mentioned?
Never.

Nowhere.

Hasnt happened.

When did quirn come back and why is he whining about stuff like male power fantasy?
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  #695  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:04 PM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
I don't really disagree with anything you've stated. Logically the Cenarion Circle and the Ancients should be marching. I just think the reason they won't is that they'll focus on healing the damage caused by the war, than preventing it. Lame, I know, but I can almost guarantee that is what Blizzard will say they're doing, if its ever addressed at all. In an ideal world, I would like the Cenarion Circle to be Alliance and encompass Alliance Druids and Shamans, while the Earthen Ring goes Horde and encompasses Horde Druids and Shamans.
As far as I'm concerned any chance, any of the ultimate optimists out there think the Night Elves have of getting their WC3 identity back after these events is going to be made or broken on these lines. If Malfurion doesn't rally the ancients against Sylvannas and isn't immediately divorced by Tyrande for not doing so then the opportunity is fucked before we even begin.
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  #696  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:01 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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As far as I'm concerned any chance, any of the ultimate optimists out there think the Night Elves have of getting their WC3 identity back after these events is going to be made or broken on these lines. If Malfurion doesn't rally the ancients against Sylvannas and isn't immediately divorced by Tyrande for not doing so then the opportunity is fucked before we even begin.
Thinking about it, the idea of Malfurion rallying the Ancients would make for a good incentive to ally with the Zandalari so they could use their Loa to counter the Ancients.
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  #697  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:02 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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I just had the hottest and most pleasant fever dream.

Imagine this: Battle for Azeroth is the finale in a long-term story arc that Blizzard put in place to put Thrall back into the Warchief seat, while eliminating evil and tyrannical members of the Horde leadership that didn't belong in the Horde to begin with (Sylvanas and Garrosh).

Expansion starts, everything is just war and death. Thrall, realizing that this war will likely be endless and cause countless deaths more than it has already, decides it's time to take back the throne he foolishly gave away and end the war before more innocents on both sides die. He also knows that he can't just walk in, Mak'gora Sylvanas, and end the war, as the Alliance likely will still try to kill them anyway due to the current state of things. So, he needs someone he's on good terms with, someone who he loves almost like family and is a member of the Alliance.

Cue Jaina. Jaina is still hateful and vicious. Thrall, through humility and kindness, manages to calm her down enough to begin a dialogue. They air all of their grievances with one another, with Thrall finally shattering Jaina's hate, and her crushing his self-doubt about being Warchief. They come up with a plan to dismantle the war entirely, and bring a modicum of peace to the world for everyone's sake. Thrall sends adventurers to aid the Desolate Council in causing a revolt amongst the more noble and honorable Forsaken, with the rest of the Horde helping. Jaina, meanwhile, using her personality, merit, and charm, manages to convince the leaders of the Alliance to follow her plan to take out the Forsaken infrastructure, directing a party of adventurers to take out key Forsaken sycophants like Apothecary Faranell.

They reach the final raid, where Sylvanas is preparing her "ultimate weapon" to kill everyone on Azeroth that isn't her and her toadies. Both armies have damaged the Forsaken loyalists, however they don't know they were being manipulated by Thrall and Jaina. They meet and almost come to blows, but both Thrall and Jaina give a wonderful speech about how permanent peace might not be possible, but at this point both the Horde and Alliance had simply been killing each other for no other reason than out of simple hatred. A war that is no longer about protecting those they care about is not a war worth fighting, and that if they all care about saving their peoples, they will put down their weapons and bury the hatchet. They do. Their armies merge into one unite, and flood into Sylvana's fortress, with Horde and Alliance leaders helping each other and the raiders during the numerous boss encounters.

Final battle is Thrall, Jaina, Genn, Vol'jin and the raiders versus Sylvanas and Nathanos and whatever hideous weapon they have built. After Sylvanas is beaten, the cutscene shows Thrall and Genn going on melee offense against a bowless Sylvanas wielding blades, while Jaina and Vol'jin tear Nathanos apart with magic and voodoo to keep him from killing Thrall and Genn. Thrall manages to cripple Sylvanas, but, instead of just finishing her, he hoists her up, and passes her over to Genn who brutally decapitates with his bare hands in a grisly game of hot-potato!

Afterward, Thrall and Anduin shake hands, and declare their war over.

Fin.
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  #698  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:08 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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malfurion is in the dream jacking off to ysera or some shit.

He is not gonna do jack shit.
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  #699  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:11 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Thinking about it, the idea of Malfurion rallying the Ancients would make for a good incentive to ally with the Zandalari so they could use their Loa to counter the Ancients.
And then in the final battle between the Ancients and the loa Elune swoops in and says "shhh shhh you all my babies, time out for everyone"

-----

Alright, so I've created a list of how I think/wish the lore territories will be at the start of BfA (even if it isn't represented in the game), based on what we already know.

EASTERN KINGDOMS:

Arathi: Stromgarde and most of the zone is controlled by the Alliance, but there is a naval base for the Horde linking it with Quel'Thalas which supplies Hammerfall for the Arathi warfront;

Hillsbrad: a highly defended Southshore by the Forsaken, but surrounded - Tarren Mill, Hillsbrad retaken as Alliance territory, and the Dalaran crater rebuilt (as hinted by the mage mount quest) as Alliance or neutral territory;

Gilneas: an inversion of Cata Silverpine - fully under Alliance control, with a massive war effort pushing north, and the Greymane Wall rebuilt for extra defense;

Tirisfal: entirely under Alliance control, and Scarlet Monastery populated by Alliance priests, led by Alonsus Faol;

Silverpine: The Sepulcher heavily defended by the Forsaken and supported by the Horde from the sea; massive Alliance forces coming from the north, south and even east from an Alliance-held Fenris Keep as another warfront;

Plaguelands: Andorhal is retaken by the Alliance, but most of the rest is held by the Silver Hand, except Caer Darrow which is held by the Forsaken; Void Elves hold Quel'Lithien;

Ghostlands: massive Horde defense at the Thalassian Pass;

Eversong & Quel'Danas: Horde controlled;

Hinterlands: Revantusk is bolstered with Zandalari troops, and it is part of the naval line between Quel'Thalas and Arathi; massive war front between it and Aerie Peak;

Everything south of the Thandol Span: Alliance territory;

-----------

KALIMDOR:

Ashenvale: almost completely controlled by the Horde, except for a pocket of resistance at Shade Bough; the Cenarion Circle is now fully Alliance and use the Dream portals to quickly move around the world;

Felwood: controlled by the tauren who once were part of the Circle; Timbermaw Hold is allied with the Alliance and serves as an unbreakable barrier towards...

Moonglade: the greatest bastion of elven resistance in northern Kalimdor, protected by the Timbermaw Hold;

Mount Hyjal: lower portions controlled by the Horde, but from the Gates of Sothann up, the night elves and the Alliance hold it;

Feralas: the night elves have a mighty resistance line from Feathermoon Stronghold to the Dream Bough, plus Eldre'Thalas is held by the Alliance Shen'dralar;

Darkshore, Barrens, Dustwallow, Mulgore, Durotar, Azshara, Desolace, Thousand Needles: Horde territory;

Azuremyst Isles: Alliance territory, protected by the Vindicaar;

Tanaris & Winterspring: Horde-influenced, but really just neutral Steamwheedle;

Uldum: independent neutral;

Silithus: battleground between the factions;

----------

ORDERS OF THE LEGIONFALL:

Cenarion Circle: Fully Alliance, using the Emerald Dream to connect the Great Trees, based at the Moonglade; the tauren and trolls have left and have now formed their own Horde-alligned druidic order, called Circle of the Earth Mother or some shit like that;

Earthen Ring: Fully Horde, brought into the faction with Thrall's influence;

Silver Hand: Fully Alliance, being now an alliance between the old Silver Hand, the Argent Crusade and the Hand of Argus; the Crusade has an Alliance-alligned Crusader State of Hearthglen; the Blood Knights and the Sunwalkers have left for the Horde;

Ebon Blade: Neutral; many members are fighting for their factions for the fun of it; Acherus is wherever, probably Northrend;

Illidari: Neutral, for they have sacrificed everything, including their factions;

Order of the Broken Temple: Neutral; chilling around the Wandering Isle holding banquets;

Valarjar: Neutral, because duh;

Council of the Black Harvest: probably still neutral, since their members can sometimes meet to share secrets and stuff;

Conclave: Netherlight Temple becomes a neutral ground where the members of both factions can dialogue - their anger pacified by Saa'ra, just as A'dal did in Shattrath;

Unseen Path: The Sentinels and Silver Covenant leave it for the Alliance, and the Farstriders and Dark Rangers leave it for the Horde (with other members leaving for their respective factions); the lodge becomes a neutral ground for dialogue, overseen by friendly Highmountain tauren and Broken Isles night elves;

Tirisgarde: breaks up, with Dalaran and the Kirin Tor taking over the Hall of the Guardian; unsure if they become full neutral or remain and fully back up the Alliance; probably neutral helping Magni tend to the Wound;

Uncrowned: Remain as masterminds behind the shadows;

Last edited by Ethenil; 11-05-2017 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:42 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
purging the lands of the Scourge and similar evil
You mean the aggressive army of reanimated corpses, located in Lordaeron, who liberally use the plague and attack civilian targets? Would that be a similar evil?
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