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  #51  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:59 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
What I had in mind, here, was to tie their origins and powers more closely to the Old Gods... possibly the Emerald Nightmare, in a way. Lord Godfrey could wind up joining the Twilight's Hammer and letting the rest in... and, in the end, possibly wind up as a worgen himself, leader of the Twilight's Scythe pack (I don't know if they'd actually have the Scythe of Elune, or just be constantly seeking it). Or, if not Godfrey, perhaps Crowley could turn evil... though I'd prefer it to be Genn, as I genuinely like Crowley a lot more and believe he serves better as a leader within the integrated Alliance, as he was against Gilnean isolationism, whereas all of our prior exposure to Genn was him being a colossal jerk.
I like how you say that given all Genn did was for his people and only them. You keep saying the same about the Forsaken.
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  #52  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:00 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I like how you say that given all Genn did was for his people and only them. You keep saying the same about the Forsaken.
Look carefully and you'll see that I've never said that Sylvanas wasn't a colossal jerk. I just believe she has more story potential than that. I'm not opposed to Genn not going evil, I only suggested him if people disliked Godfrey becoming a worgen.
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  #53  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:02 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Look carefully and you'll see that I've never said that Sylvanas wasn't a colossal jerk. I just believe she has more story potential than that. I'm not opposed to Genn not going evil, I only suggested him if people disliked Godfrey becoming a worgen.
And im talking about the Forsaken actions that you defend, not Sylvanas.
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  #54  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:02 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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And im talking about the Forsaken actions that you defend, not Sylvanas.
None of which you'll need to worry about if my earlier retcon comes forth, so we'll all win.
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  #55  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:07 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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None of which you'll need to worry about if my earlier retcon comes forth, so we'll all win.
You are a master when it comes to going off-track to protect your Forsaken, you know that?

You'll be the only one winning as Gilneas will still be lsot to the Alliance since it won't be Alliance territory. And that will make one less danger for your lovely Forsaken.
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  #56  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:08 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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You are a master when it comes to going off-track to protect your Forsaken, you know that?

You'll be the only one winning as Gilneas will still be lsot to the Alliance since it won't be Alliance territory. And that will make one less danger for your lovely Forsaken.
The worgen can have it back after Cataclysm, provided they want it.
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  #57  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:08 AM
Pixy Pixy is offline

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Look carefully and you'll see that I've never said that Sylvanas wasn't a colossal jerk
You advocated that Sylvanas CAN redeem herself. So basically one of the characters who committed the worst atrocities in WoW can be redeemed despite being a colossal jerk and a genocidal crazy self-absorbing undead woman.

That means you did defend Sylvanas in past arguments.
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  #58  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:09 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Xil do you honestly think that we're all idiots and can't see what you're trying to do?
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  #59  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:10 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
The worgen can have it back after Cataclysm, provided they want it.
Thing is, after Cataclysm it's the "you want a new zone or an updated Gilneas?".

And why wouldn't they want it back?

Seriously, your retcon is only good for the Horde, not the Alliance.

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Xil do you honestly think that we're all idiots and can't see what you're trying to do?
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  #60  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:10 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Pixy View Post
You advocated that Sylvanas CAN redeem herself. So basically one of the characters who committed the worst atrocities in WoW can be redeemed despite being a colossal jerk and a genocidal crazy self-absorbing undead woman.

That means you did defend Sylvanas in past arguments.
Not what was said prior.

Quote:
Thing is, after Cataclysm it's the "you want a new zone or an updated Gilneas?".

And why wouldn't they want it back?

Seriously, your retcon is only good for the Horde, not the Alliance.
Compromise: Gilneas is hit by the Twilight's Hammer, but the actual final zone remains the Twilight Highlands.
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  #61  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:12 AM
Thornvale Thornvale is offline

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I'd make it so the Blood Elf redemption storyline with Velen never happened.
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:12 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I'd make it so the Blood Elf redemption storyline with Velen never happened.
Out of curiosity, why so?
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  #63  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:13 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Compromise; Gilneas is hit by the Twilight's Hammer, but the actual final zone remains the Twilight Highlands.
No, just no. We won't spare your miserable Forsaken the vilain bat to give it to one of the most boring and overused ennemy factions because the Forsaken are evil and them attacking Gilneas is perfectly logical. What doesn't make sense is us not counter-attacking.
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  #64  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:14 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by HoodedMan View Post
I would retcon Arthas' disney moments. Part of Nerzhul/Arthas struggle side-effect it was.
If I get an other answer, then it would be to say that the Lich King (after Frozen Throne's ending) was a combination of Ner'zhul's and Arthas's psyches, and they agreed with each other so often and so strongly that it became impossible to tell which parts of the Lich King were from Arthas and which were from Ner'zhul.

(tosses coin)
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  #65  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:15 AM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by WhinyAlly View Post
No, just no. We won't spare your miserable Forsaken the vilain bat to give it to one of the most boring and overused ennemy factions because the Forsaken are evil and them attacking Gilneas is perfectly logical. What doesn't make sense is us not counter-attacking.
So... your end goal here is not to give the worgen a better arc, but rather to make the Horde seem worse?
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  #66  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:17 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Thornvale View Post
I'd make it so the Blood Elf redemption storyline with Velen never happened.
Or that if it did happen, the repairwork was done by the orcs instead of by the draenei.

It would make "Blood Elves in the Horde?!" a little more credible.
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  #67  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:17 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
So... your end goal here is not to give the worgen a better arc, but rather to make the Horde seem worse?
You are putting words in my mouth. My goal is to have the Worgens complete their story and have the Forsaken accept the consequences of their actions. You seem to want neither of theses.
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  #68  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:19 AM
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Or that if it did happen, the repairwork was done by the orcs instead of by the draenei.

It would make "Blood Elves in the Horde?!" a little more credible.
It's very credible as it was though.
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  #69  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:20 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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It's very credible as it was though.
That an Alliance race saved the Sunwell, and now they're using their free magic as members of the Horde to wage war against the Alliance?

EDIT: It's more credible with the Purge of Dalaran fiasco. But before that, what had the Alliance-of-Jaina-and-Varian (not Garithos's group) ever done to the Blood Elves except help?
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  #70  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:20 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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What's so wrong with people not wanting their faction be evil?
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  #71  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:21 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
So... your end goal here is not to give the worgen a better arc, but rather to make the Horde seem worse?
You have absolutely no right to lecture anyone on what constitutes a "good arc."
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  #72  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:21 AM
Trickster Trickster is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
That an Alliance race saved the Sunwell, and now they're using their free magic as members of the Horde waging war against the Alliance?
Blood Elves never really cared for their allies.

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What's so wrong with people not wanting their faction be evil?
Nothing but screwing over other races for it is wrong.
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  #73  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:22 AM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
The solution to that problem is not "cease faction conflict." The solution to that problem is "take away the Forsaken's plot armor."
But will that really help?

If we need to do that - take away Alliance and Horde plot armor. But, in my retcon, The Alliance would be practically destroyed if we are to believe they've been losing or on the losing side the entire time before the Uprising. (In the Horde)

And by the time the Crowned Prince gets back to Stormwind, it's already occupied by anti-Wyrnn Nobles, and they blind the fucker.

And then they begin to talk on whether or keep him imprisoned, or exile him.

The Horde, likewise, goes through a Succession Crisis over the fact the Alliance's Despot basically declared who was warchief. He/She did not earn the title by right.

Remove all the armor, let true war exhaustion occur, let characters die.

I want some fucking castration, blinding, and horrific maiming.
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  #74  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:23 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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You have absolutely no right to lecture anyone on what constitutes a "good arc."
Neither do you.
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  #75  
Old 08-06-2013, 08:24 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by WhinyAlly View Post
Blood Elves never really cared for their allies.
Well sure, it works if we interpret them as all massive jerks. But I was just thinking it'd be nice if they had something so recent and so strong - like the Sunwell's restoration - to be grateful to the Horde for.

(You know, considering most of the Blood Elven leaders fought against these same orcs in the Second War and saw their countryside destroyed and family members butchered.)
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